Dean and ethnicity?

[theriverburns]

I come from a midwestern rust belt city. A real melting pot. Somehow I get the feeling that Vermont is a place where very few people have last names ending in vowels. And then I read posts that ask crap like:

"Could Dean be the next MLK?" PUH LEEEZE.

From 1990 to 1999, the overall population of Vermont increased 5.5 percent, while the number of African American/Black Vermonters rose 61.4 percent from 1,973 to 3,184!

"Or the next Chavez?"

The number of Hispanic/Latino Vermonters also rose more quickly than the general population, increasing from 3,661 to 5,128, a rise of 40.1 percent.

The public housing complex in my neighborhood had more African American's living there than there are African-American's entire state of Vermont. Dean governed a state with well over three thousand black folks!!? Damn! Them there's credential's enough for me that this man understands the diversity that is America.

Or maybe Dean is the next Joe Hill??

One steel mill in Cleveland employed more union members over a ten year span than the entire state of Vermont.

There are at least 200 counties in the USA with larger populations or GDP's than the entire state of Vermont.

What is it with this guy? I need someone to explain to me what in the world there is to Dean other than a strong jaw and a ton of hype. Because I keep seeing a moderate one trick pony who risks losing all the marbles by singing, like, one note.

I bet there were more pizza shops in my neighborhood than Eye talians in all of Vermont. My Uncle Luigi never

OK. My rant is over. Actually I heard Dean plans to eliminate the top cap for payroll taxes. That is good. Somebody please tell me another reason to vote for Dean over Kucinich other than, "Dennis can't win and Dean can"

That rationale is the reason for this post.

[private_ryan]

1. the white teacher can't teach black history argument

or the other idiotic one that unless you're gay you can't comment on gay issues /stories.

Dennis is not gonna win, get used to it.

[theriverburns]

4. I am not asking him to teach third grade

I am asking if a man who comes from one of the least diverse places in the nation. A tiny, vanilla place. Can govern the most diverse nation on the planet. Would you put a cornfed kid from Iowa in charge of sales in Queens? Probably not. He'd get eaten alive. Vermont is like running a country club. A small, boring one.

[private_ryan]

5. what did Dennis run?

n/t

[theriverburns]

6. A city larger than the state of Vermont

And with more Fortune 500 headquarters than most states. Dealt with one of the nations largest populations of union workers. And the powerful heads of these unions. Steel, rubber, auto. Three professional sports franchises. At the time, Cuyahoga County was one of the most important places for the Democratic party because it offered the only way to win in the very Republican state of Ohio. Aks Carter and Reagan.

And your guy's "state" made what? A couple of coats? Some billy goat farms?

[theriverburns]

7. Maybe you can get SNL's Jim Breuer...

to do Dean's ads: "9 out of ten billy goat farmers, baaa, baaaaa, prefer Dean" Dean is the next FDR. Come on. What is it about this guy? I honestly want to see it.

[private_ryan]

8. at least VT is a state

on edit: persoanlly I could care less who wins the primary, I just want one who gets the chimp out.

Dennis is joke a far as getting elected nationally. I'd settle for Clark (if he runs), Graham, Edwards, Kerry, Dean...

[theriverburns]

9. at least VT is a state

Yeah but I bet Topeka could kick it's ass.

[jafap]

14. even Pete Rose would not take that bet

Congress passed a law abolishing the state of Vermont, but Washington did not want to fight the Green Mountain boys, so it was never enforced. There's no way Topeka could maintain their supply lines, and when they got hit with a Vermont snow and wind chill they would scurry back to the south.

I would point out that you could make many of the same claims about Arkansas, although it is bigger than Cuyahoga county. Also, it is clear that being governor of a large state does not necessarily make for a decent President. It is not the size of the state that matters, it is the skill and passion of the statesman. Maybe I just love that one note. Play it again Sam, let's take back America!

edit: Some of your other comments were hyperbolic. As to 200 counties being larger than Vermont. My 1988 City-County Data book has Vermont at 541,000 people. Denver county had 505,000 and its rank is 92. So fewer than 90 counties had populations greater than Vermont about the time when Dean became Governor. And Cuyahoga county has three times as many people as Vermont, but even in 1996 Cleveland (I hope I am guessing the right city) has fewer than 500,000 people - 10% fewer than Vermont.

[babzilla]

16. Dean comes from the most diverse place in the nation

he is from New York.

[JohnKleeb]

2. *clapping* I agree

"Somebody please tell me another reason to vote for Dean over Kucinich other than, "Dennis can't win and Dean can"
There is no other reason to vote for Dean over Dennis. I am suprised you didnt see the one asking if Dean could be the next messiah. You are asking what I have been wanting to ask but I couldnt put it in to words. Thank you.

[Clete]

3. You should vote for whomever you believe in in the primary.

Even if your candidate does not win the primary, at least you gave him a chance IMHO. I don't think pols should be trying to influence votes in the primaries because "they are the ones that will win". That's how we lose elections, settling for the lesser of two evils.

[ButterflyBlood]

10. Dean doesn't have a long anti-choice record

or support a flag burning amendment. there's your answer to the question at the end.

[REP]

11. Dean Can Speak Without Shrieking

Dean didn't flip-flop, erm, "evolve" on an important issue; Dean doesn't want to desecrate the First Amendment because of his feelings; Dean doesn't say things like "I want a transvestite on the Supreme Court*" and Dean's platform has more to it than bashing the other candidates.

Why isn't possible for some supporters of another candidate to make an argument FOR their candidate, rather than constantly compare him to Dean?


(*I know this isn't an accurate quote, but that's what people heard)

[loyalsister]

12. hmmmmmm

And health care? You're comparing the guy who wants to pass something to the one who is telling the uninsured to f** off and die because he'd rather grandstand over NAFTA and WTO. He pays it lip service by saying he wants single payer. He knows, however, that noone could get that passed right now.
On the other hand, the other candidates have been discussing plans that do have a fighting chance. I happen to like Dean's best because his detaches employment from healthcare. Dean has pointed out that people of all races have some of the same problems. That's a heck of a lot more unifying than writing off voters who you think might be racist.
While your asking these questions, I have one for you, why would a disabled woman vote for a man who doesn't seem to prioritize health care and for most of his life would have written her off as expendable in favor of a fetus?
When thinking about this, keep in mind people with disabilities are the largest minority in the US. If it doesn't look like life would improve for us under a president there is no reason to support him in the primary. DK offers absolutely nothing to the disability community with his pipe dreams.

[redeye]

13. Kucinich is a Catholic...

...whose religion influences his politics. Dean is more secular than any American politician I can think of in the last 150 years other than Jesse Ventura. As an atheist, that's important to me.

[CWebster]

15. There seem to be many misconceptions about Vermont

In the area of Northern Vermont that I am most familiar with, between Montpelier and Burlington, there is a large ethnic representation of French-Americans, due to it's proximity to the Canadian border. My feeling over the last 30 or so years that we've had a place and friends up there - is that it is exceedingly tolerant and community-minded. In some ways it is the landscape and the severity of the climate which forces a greater amount of communication and cooperation among people, just as the means to survive. There are many out-of-staters and people who settled in the area since the back-to-the-earth movement in the 70's.
I actually prefer the pace there, it is much more human and thoughful about the needs of the community. More like Canada in many ways..

And...I am Italian, btw. ;-)

[Northwind]

17. Now, you know that ethnicity only counts

for those of non-european descent!

(for the record, I am a Scottish, French, Spanish, Native-American, African mix)

[bleedingheart]

18. I don't think Dean is the kind of guy to have problems with

ethnicity...

The North East has been a bigger melting pot for this country than anywhere else... Hell most immigrants to this country came through New York and scattered from there...so Vermont has seen its share of immigrants.. Portuguese, Spanish, French, English, German...etc...

So to assume that Vermont is filled with uppercrusts who wouldn't appreciate other ethnic groups is kind of weird.

Granted Vermont is a small state but they have done great things for education and healthcare. Bill Clinton came from Arkansas and to be honest I don't see many southern states on the top of the nation's best educated lists...and if is the South that gave us Right to Work and other anti-labor laws..lets not even think about discussing healthcare.

So lets all try to get along and stop bashing candidates... Personally I will vote for the Dem no matter who in 2004.

[tjdee]

19. There are plenty of cities with good education records.

Dean lucked out in that Vermont is officially a state. That's great for him, and he's using it to his advantage, as he should--but I do think we can benefit from some perspective.

Vermont is NOTHING like Arkansas. Arkansas has a sizable minority population, higher crime, etc.

I don't think Dean has an insurmountable problem with minorities, but man, when people compare Vermont to Arkansas...

[CWebster]

21. Interesting development in the Dean campaign

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=7950&JServSessionIdr009=g9x3qqikdk.app4a&security=1&news_iv_ctrl=1301

Check it out, tjdee. Would he bother if he didn't care?

[tjdee]

22. I'm not saying he doesn't care.

I'm not saying that at all, I just edited my post to say that I don't think Dean has major problems with regard to ethnicity or race or whatever.

Not at all. I think it's fairly obvious Dean notes any obstacles in this regard, which is why he just hired Andi Pringle.

I was more responding to the hey, Vermont is just like Arkansas, they're both small states thing.

[Rich Hunt]

23. upper-crusts

I don't think it's a question of whether the "upper-crusts" would appreciate the "ethnics", but whether a WASP will play well in non-WASP areas.

Just an observation, not a criticism: Dean does come off as very WASP-y, and I think that might rub a lot of people the wrong way.

[CWebster]

24. Read that Dean grew up Catholic.

He doesn't strike me as WASPY at all. Middle-class, yes, but if you see WASP upper crust- you have no idea. LOL. It seems to me that he made conscious choices that broadened his participation outside of the class he was born into.

[Eloriel]

20. I don't know where you came up with those hyperbolic statements

I haven't heard them, and I think they're sill (unless they've been taken out of context somehow).

I think it's a shame that ethnicity appears to be your major thing. (Or is it? Is this just perhaps part of the anti-Dean campaign that's being waged here at DU by forces who would like to see Dean less popular for their own selfish reasons?)

Just yesterday the campaign announced a new Deputy Campaign Manager (second in command). http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000973.html

Andi Pringle Joins Dean Campaign as Deputy Campaign Manager
Howard Dean announced today that Andrea “Andi” Pringle, a long-time political strategist, would join his campaign. Pringle, who recently worked as campaign manager for Carol Moseley-Braun’s presidential campaign, will serve as deputy campaign manager.

"I’m thrilled to have someone as experienced and talented as Andi join our campaign," Governor Dean said. "Her talents will help us bring together a broad coalition as part of building the greatest grassroots campaign ever in presidential history."

"My political career has been defined by supporting people and issues that seek to empower Americans at every level. Howard Dean is the rare candidate who represents those values. I’m proud to join the Dean For America team," Pringle said.

Pringle, who recently joined the political consulting firm Whistle Stop Communications as a partner, has a diverse resume—including time on Jesse Jackson’s two presidential campaigns and a stint with his National Rainbow Coalition, as well as serving as deputy campaign manager for John White, Jr.’s race for mayor of Philadelphia and two years as a vice president at Jones & Associates political consulting firm.

She has also served as communications director for the NAACP’s National Voter Fund, worked on criminal justice issues with George Soros’ Open Society Institute, and spent seven years working in the entertainment industry.

Ms. Pringle is a graduate of Howard University.

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Also posted to the blog yesterday was this notice:
http://www.blogforamerica.com/
African Americans for Dean
Courtney Smith from Florida has launched an excellent new website, African Americans for Dean. From the homepage:

We now find ourselves in a never-ending nightmare. Thanks to Bush, we are now mired in an unnecessary and expensive war, ruined foreign relations with our long-standing allies, record unemployment, a record-breaking federal deficit, record-breaking numbers of Americans loosing their homes to foreclosure, record numbers of African American children living below the poverty line, bankrupt states, cuts in all types of aid programs and educational assistance for the most needy among us, a permanent cloud of anxiety and fear, unfair tax cuts for the wealthy, and the list of horrors just goes on and on....

The upcoming 2004 presidential election is by far one of the most critically important elections in the history of this country. It is our opportunity to remove Bush and his gang, and to return the country to the path of peace, prosperity and equal rights for all. We can, and must do this. Your help is needed NOW!

-----

Dean speaks Spanish better than Bush, and delivered a large percentage of his speech to the Latino group (org name escapes me) several weeks ago in Spanish. He already had both black (in addition to Andi) and Latino staff.

Part of just about every speech he gives have been the words that Graham stole the other day in the most recent forum: "I'm tired of Bush dividing us by race; I'm tired of him dividing us by sex; I'm tired of him dividing us by sexual orientation and even income." AFAIK, that's far more than the other top tier candidates have gone and has the added benefit that HE ACTUALLY MEANS IT.

Eloriel

Edit: almost forgot:

African Americans for Dean (new)
http://www.africanamericansfordean.com/AA/Official Website
http://www.deanforamerica.com

Official Blog
http://blog.deanforamerica.com/

BRAND New Democrats for Dean
http://brandnewdemocrats.blogspot.com

Independents for Dean
http://deanindependents.org/

Republicans for Dean
http://republicansfordean.blogspot.com/