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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:19 AM
Original message
The plan to bring theocracy to America
I have mentioned this in several posts. A little background. I attended a Dominionist/Kingdom Now church for 2 years (during a period when I was seeking spiritual answers). I am well versed in what this movement believes. There is a plan out there by a group of Christian fundamentalists to turn America into a theocracy. They see Bush as a stepping stone in this plan.

Christian Reconstructionism/Theonomy is a movement that was begun in the 1960s by a Presbyterian minister, R.J. Rushdoony. Theonomy is based on two Greek prefixes - "theo" meaning God, and "nomy" meaning law. It is literally a movement to make God's law the law of the land.

Theonomists believe in a post-millenial eschatology, that is, that there will be no rapture, that Jesus will not return before the millenium mentioned in Revelation. Instead, his kingdom will be ushered in on earth by men who convert the world to Christianity and Christian law. After this process is complete, Jesus will return as king, and those who ushered in the change will rule and reign with him. The core of theonomy is the adoption of Old Testament law as the written law of the land - first in America, later throughout the world. The laws and punishments of the Old Testament would be established for "crimes." Adultery, premarital sex, homosexuality would all be illegal and punishable by execution. All religions except their brand of Christianity would be outlawed. They do not believe that there will be a war to bring about this change, simply they believe that the change will occur gradually through time (currently they are lauding Bush's ammendment to outlaw same sex unions as a step in this direction). The changes would be so gradual, and they would appeal to the orthodox Christian right to gain support, so that they would be accepted until it was too late for anyone to do anything about it.

Since the 1990s, another camp has joined in with this group. These are called "Dominionists." These are your charismatics who believe in a world-wide revival to usher in Christ's reign. Pat Robertson is the most notable member of this camp, but it also includes people in the Toronto Blessing movement, Pensecola Revival movement, Earl Paulk of Atlanta's Cathedral of the Holy Spirit.

In short, followers of this movement will use the constitutional guarantee of freedom of religion to gain a strong hold. The irony is that the very ammendment they use to gain power is the first right they intend to do away with. There are already church leaders in this movement across the country calling for the execution of Wiccans (in Texas, see religious tolerance web site), and homosexuals (Fred Phelps). The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004 (HB 3799, SB 2082), is a piece of dominionist legislation that would limit the Supreme Court and lower courts from hearing cases concerning expressions of religious faith by elected or appointed officials. ( ).
In other words, the plan is well underway.

One of the hallmarks of dominionists is their insistence that God has told them specific things that will happen in this country or should happen (i.e. Pat Robertson saying God had told him it's Bush in a walk in 2004). See this quote by George Bush:
"God told me to strike at al Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam Hussein, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them." -- According to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas <6> ( ).

As improbable as many see this movement, it is one that is well underway. They suffered a major set-back in 2000, when Y2K turned into a non-event (read pre-2000 writings of Gary North (theonomist) if you can find them), but bounced back with the election of Bush and the terror attacks of 9/11. The movement is well underway.

The Smirking Chimp -
Today's Alternative News -
Yurica Report -
Religious Tolerance -
Valley Advocate -
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
1. my posts always sink like a rock - bump n/t
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yankeeinlouisiana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's early, on a Sunday morning...
I'm sure your post will get more hits. :bounce:

Unfortunately, I'm not surprised by your post. But once America is taken over, do you really think the rest of the world will follow or will they run screaming the other way?
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markomalley Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's getting ugly out there!!!
Oh, yeah. But it's not just HR 3799, there are two others that I saw through doing a Thomas search.

You have:
  • We the People Act -- HR 3893 -- which:"We the People Act - Prohibits the Supreme Court and each Federal court from adjudicating any claim or relying on judicial decisions involving: (1) State or local laws, regulations, or policies concerning the free exercise or establishment of religion; (2) the right of privacy, including issues of sexual practices, orientation, or reproduction; or (3) the right to marry without regard to sex or sexual orientation where based upon equal protection of the laws.

    Allows the Supreme Court and the Federal courts to determine the constitutionality of Federal statutes, administrative rules, or procedures in considering cases arising under the Constitution. Prohibits the Supreme Court and the Federal courts from issuing any ruling that appropriates or expends money, imposes taxes, or otherwise interferes with the legislative functions or administrative discretion of the States.

    Authorizes any party or intervener in matters before any Federal court, including the Supreme Court, to challenge the jurisdiction of the court under this Act.

    Provides that the violation of this Act by any justice or judge is an impeachable offense and a material breach of good behavior subject to removal.

    Negates as binding precedent on the State courts any Federal court decision that relates to an issue removed from Federal jurisdiction by this Act."
  • Marriage Protection Act of 2003 -- HR 3313, which:
    "Amends the Federal judicial code to deny Federal courts jurisdiction to hear or determine any question pertaining to the interpretation of the Defense of Marriage Act or the Federal statute defining marriage."

It's getting pretty ugly out there...
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. Cept those aren't Constitutional either. (n/t)
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T Roosevelt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
4. Asscroft is a big believer in this
though I don't know if he refers to himself as dominionist.
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Asscroft is AoG
Edited on Sun Apr-18-04 09:02 AM by doni_georgia
They usually do not refer to themselves as dominionists. In fact, the Assembly of God denomination addressed this issue back in the 1940's and 1950's and determined that the "Manifest Sons of God," "Kingdom Now, " "Latter Rain" movements were heretical. HOWEVER - many AoG churches are now embracing the movement through the Brownsville Revival and Toronto Blessing. AoG pastors like Kilpatrick and Steve Hill are big time dominionists. This is also the underlying eschatology behind the prophetic movement in charismatic churches (a movement Ashcroft embraces). Truthfully, though, most people involved in this movement have no idea of the theology behind it. Charismatics are typically not well read. They seek experience, and focus on the "new thing" God is supposedly doing. Most do not have the biblical understanding of your more mainline Christians. This is what makes them easy victims for charletans and movements such as theonomy. Not saying that Ashcroft is unaware - I doubt that seriously, but most of the people attending these churches honestly do not know the whole picture.
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Bronco69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. These people scare the hell out of me!
We really need to shine a light on them and make people aware. If I were to run for public office I would make it a top priority to stop these people. The problem is that as soon as you start to bring it to the public's attention you are branded as a liberal athiest.
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Or a nut case
When I try to talk to people about this, I get accused of being a conspiracy theorist. Many well-meaning folks just can't wrap their brains around this one. Honestly it IS nuts! But these people ARE nuts. Thing is, the world has a long history of embracing dangerous nuts.
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Nobody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Biut I *am* a liberal atheist....
One way to get this out is to remind people that it won't be *their* mainstream sect/denomination/whatever that will make the rules.

Ask your Lutheran friends whether they'd be willing to follow the rules of a different synod. Ask your Jewish friends if they'd be willing to follow Reform practices when they're Orthodox. Are your Roman Catholic friends interested in chucking Vatican II and following the tenets of Opus Dei (which Mel Gibson follows)?

Religion is very personal to very many people.

Our diversity is our strength.
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Bronco69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. I agree 100%!
Religion is so personal that it should be left out of the government all together. I have no problem with anything a person does/doesn't believe, but it has absolutely no place in the political arena IMO. I was referring to the negative conotation that goes along with being labeled a liberal athiest. The act of labeling someone that way brings religion right back into it. Sorry if I'm babbling. :-)
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:04 AM
Response to Original message
7. Yours is the first piece I've seen to address Dominionism separately.
I've been following the Reconstructionist "movement" (what to call it?) closely and have noticed that Domionism has become entwined with the CRs in pieces written this year. It now seems to be referred to as Reconstructionism/Domionism. You point out that Robertson is identifying himself as a Dominionist. This is news to me. As is the apparent newness of Domionism and its attachment to CR. Could you go into any additional detail on this? I agree that it's an incredibly important issue, as do quite a few DUers.
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Robertson and dominionism
Robertson talks out of both sides of his mouth. Orthodox Christianity has labeled (correctly) dominionism and Kingdom Now theology as heretical. Most people in this movement do not come out right and say they are followers of this theology (especially in mainstream Christian circles). You have to read between the lines. Listen to what these people say in their sermons, read their writings, etc.

Dominion theology (the correct term) is nothing new. It has evolved out of the "Manifest Sons of God" movement. They see themselves as Joel's Army (Joel 2, Acts 2 - Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost). God will pour out His Spirit on Christians in the last days, giving them supernatural powers by which they will subdue the world. Some in this movement believe that those who receive this power will receive their "glorified bodies" prior to the return of Christ, which will enable them to subdue the people of the earth. This movement also says that people have a divine nature and these people shall become little gods (or god-like depending on the preacher - see Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland, Crouch's of TBN). They believe Christ will come as a "seed" and grow into the Great Prophet. This theology is apparent in many of the songs that are being embraced by even more mainstream churches through the praise and worship movement (ex. These are the Days of Elijah). It has to do with the rebuilding of the tabernacle of David. There is a definite warrior attitude, which presents itself in "warring in the Spirit." The rapture in this movement is believed to be like in the days of Noah. The wicked will be removed and the "true" Christians will be left to rule and reign with Christ.

As sister to Domnion Theology is the Kingdom Now theology. Pat Robertson is one of the leading spokespersons for this theology. In the Kingdom Now version, we are living in the Kingdom of God, and as revival comes and transforms the world (and governments), the Kingdom becomes perfected.

Robertson disagrees with tradional theonomists on one point - he is premillenial rather than post-millenial in his eschatology (theology of the last days). In other words, he believes in a tribulation (a la Tim La Haye). He believes this tribulation has to occur before the governments can be transformed. But listen carefully to him, and you get the idea that he believes we are in that tribulation now. Robertson rejects the label of "Reconstructionist," but uses REcontructionists text at Regent's University.
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doni_georgia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Read Greg Palast
One more note - Greg Palast has done some excellent writing on Pat Robertson.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. What a very interesting and informative post
Although I have been learning and really becoming concerned about these theocratic movements, I had never heard of the "glorified bodies" and supernatural powers before. No wonder this ideology is so attractive to people who feel dispossessed and politically powerless.
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-18-04 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. From the Yurica report (linked above)

"Notwithstanding the advice,{per a quote from Leo Strauss} the Presidents foreign policy revealed a flair for saber rattling. He warned the world that nations are either with us or theyre against us! His speeches, often containing allusions to biblical passages, were spoken with the certainty of a man who holds the authority of Gods wrath on earth, for he not only challenged the evil nations of the world, singling out Iraq, Syria, Iran, and North Korea as the axis of evil, but he wielded the sword of punishment and the sword of revenge against his own people: the American poor and the middle class who according to the religious right have earned Gods wrath by their licentiousness and undisciplined lives."

"To the middle class he said, Im going to give you clear skies clean air and clean water, then he gutted the environmental controls that were designed to provide clean air and water. The estimated number of premature deaths that will result: 100,000.<5> He said to the poor and to the middle class: Im going to give you a prescription drug program, one that you truly deserve. Then he gave the drug industry an estimated $139 billion dollars in increased profits from the Medicare funds and arranged for the poorest of seniors to be eliminated from coverage, while most elderly will pay more for drugs than they paid before his drug benefit bill passed.<6> After that he arranged for the dismantling of the Medicare program entirely, based on the method outlined by his religious mentors.<7> He said to the people of America, Im going to build a future for you and your children, then he gutted their future with tax breaks to the rich and a pre-emptive war against Iraq, and the largest spending deficit in history.<8>"

"This article is the documented story of how a political religious movement called Dominionism gained control of the Republican Party, then took over Congress, then took over the White House, and now is sealing the conversion of America to a theocracy by taking over the American Judiciary. Its the story of why and how the wrath of God Almighty will be unleashed against the middle class, against the poor, and against the elderly and sick of this nation by George W. Bush and his army of Republican Dominionist rulers. "

This is a long article, but one of the best I've come across regarding Domionism.

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