They can write all the books they want ..but PNAC Got What They Wanted.

[KoKo]

So, Woodward's book says Bush wanted to go into Iraq from the beginning and that he used money from Afghanistan appropriations to do it without Congress knowing. And, he was secretive about it because he thought folks might get upset. And, Clarke lays out that they could have done better in preventing 9/11 and we need to have better communication with our intelligence agencies. O'Neil says he never asked questions about anything he presented him and didn't seem to care, and Phillips says the Bushes have been at it since before WWII creating their evil empire, and
Alterman and the rest know the Media are Whores who won't allow any discussion about foreign policy and are basically the tools of the Corporations. On and on and on.

No matter how much more comes out about this, and how angry the American public might get when they "wake up" to what's been going on, in the end the Project for New American Century and the Right Wing Think Tanks have gotten more than their ever hoped for.

They have rolled back much of what was fought for for decades since FDR. The environment, womens rights, religious freedoms,the right to participation in Democracy, the right to protest our government's policies, education, elections and truth in government. There isn't an area of our lives as Americans that they haven't made reforms to and they still have eight months to go!

They have achieved the revival of the Cold War into the "Muslim War."
We will be in this War State forever because of the enemies they have made. They have been working for this since WWII.

They have gotten more than they ever hoped for.

[AJ BENDER]

1. They've also screwed this country Royally

The repercussions of this policy and this act of folly will haunt this country for GENERATIONS TO COME...

I haven't noticed the Palestinians easing off on Israel yet... it will be the same with US & Irag for years to come as well... so long as our troops are there, they are targets. Bombs and gun battles will be a hallmark of this occupation untill the US gets booted out.

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

[burlwindow]

4. The "Muslim War" will be going on as long as there is Muslims . . .

and non-believers. And when everyone is a believer, the Muslims will simply start killing each other, based on degree of fanaticism. Sorry, but the truth is the truth.

“Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him.” (Hadith Al Buhkari vol. 9:57)

Sura 26:227 “Except those who believe, work righteousness, engage much in the remembrance of God, and defend themselves only after they are unjustly attacked. And soon will the unjust assailants know what vicissitudes their affairs will take!”

3:85 “Whoever seeks other than Islam as his religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he will be with the losers” “Slay the idolators wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the last Day…. Go forth, light-armed and heavy-armed, and strive with your wealth and your lives in the way of Allah! (Sura 9:5,29,41)

“And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allah, and for those weak, illtreated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: "Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help.”

Mohammed said, “I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah” (Al Bukhari vol. 4:196)

5:51 “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.” This freindship makes any Muslim a enemy of their own and deserving of the same fate as the unbeliever. This is because God does not guide an unjust people.

Educate yourself:

http://meria.idc.ac.il/journal/2001/issue4/jv5n4a2.htm

http://www.letusreason.org/Islam12.htm

[keithyboy]

6. Don't for get to include a reading of the Talumud in the lessons.

I am getting sick and tired of these religous maniacs!

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

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[Beam Me Up]

9. "is" does not agree with "Muslims"

Educate yourself.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[qb]

10. And as long as there are Christians, they will be blowing up

federal buildings and women's clinics and invading other countries.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[qb]

13. I don't really understand your response. I was just trying to make a point

about sweeping generalizations. I am sure most in the Muslim mainstream, as in the Christian mainstream, abhor violence.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KoKo]

17. I think there are some folks who could quote "Biblical Stuff" to counter

what you are saying. And frankly a good debate between the "Fundies" on both sides of Christianity and followers of Mohammed would be very healthy.

Then those of us "in the middle" could do some debates with the Fundies and we could hash this all out "Diplomatically."

Our problem today is that we have RW ZEALOT IDEALOGUES speaking for too many of us.

Thanks for your post...it's confrontational enough that it deserves a good debate!

[Canuckistanian]

2. Well, I hope that works out for them

Let's see what happens to them in November.

[Soup Bean]

3. I tend to agree.

They have set forces in motion that could return us to a feudal, theocratic state when we run out of cheap energy. I'm not sure they ever expected a second term, because they've tried to do as much damage as possible during the first four years. I don't think they ever thought they'd get this far.

[KoKo]

18. They worked so fast that I agree...they didn't expect a second term, BUT

that means we have to work all the faster to "UNDO" what they have cravenly "DONE."

[SoCalDem]

23. Poppy's truncated tenure taught them that they MUST work fast

I think that Poppy thought his first term would be as glorious war hero, and that would assure a landslide victory for term #2,where he would get everything that they wanted ...with ease..

The "time off" 8 year span down in Texas, was not spent going to baseball games.. Those freaks were busy..busy setting out a "fast-track" one-term transformation, in case they got another chance..

I have always been certain in my own mind that THAT was the reason why junior's selection was so well financed and so desperately needed..

Eight long years of planning could not just be washed down the drain.. It was a NECESSITY that he be put into office.. They saw all that luscious money, just bulging from the treasury, and they simply HAD to have it, in order to advance their plan..

[KoKo]

24. I didn't go back to Poppy but your insight over what he did and those

behind him is very interesting. I lived under Poppy as you must have too, and we all thought he was an imbicile. He couldn't talk much better than his spawn and didn't get the "vision" thing.

And, yet he was tied into the WWII Cold War/Domino Theory/Nixonian folks.

They have gotten their revenge in "Aces" from the little Chimp coming into power from the Supremes....and really..it is a continuation. No matter what we read here about "poppy" thinking his devil spawn has gone too far...we need to know who was "behind" Poppy's election and who ran him.

Thanks for the perspective...:-)'s

[RC]

5. I feel sick.

We almost had things under enough control to give Peace a chance. Then they stole our government.

[burlwindow]

15. Control?

What control?

[KoKo]

20. We must NEVER give up working for Peace. I feel sick too. But we gotta

keep after it. Fax,Phone,Write, e-mail. If "We" don't do it, who will?

[charlie]

7. And the consevative rank and file

have been a bunch of adrift sad sacks since the Cold War died. This is a godsend for them too.

[opihimoimoi]

16. Me thinks the PNAC Guys bit off more than chew in this Project.

But, on the other hand, perhaps not as the Play has not yet ended.

I suspect, some, if not most of the NeoCons actually desire a full out war. This will give them license to OFF whole cities and populations. The Holy War thing? Yup, I suspect some want it so bad they can taste it. They believe since we have the stronger weapons we will prevail. In this war I speak of, there will be no prisoners, "Put all to the sword, every man, woman, and child". In this manner, the PNAC guys will own the remainding oil on this Planet.
Pure Greed, Fanaticism, and Myopia.

They want the "Remotes 24/7"

[KoKo]

19. I hear what you say, Opi...that's why we need discussions about this..

and I wish we could find a reasonable way to discuss it all..:-(

But, it will be discussed by the Gun and Tank and by blood in the streets. And some of us will have to stand up even when we just don't want to do it, or think we have a chance.

I did NOT want to relive this again after Vietnam. I thought "Vietnam" would live in "Infamy" (to bastardize FDR's quote about "PH.")

But, alas, memories are short in our "media sound byte driven world" and some are called to do duty more than once in our lifetimes.

Oh for a happier time, if there ever was such a thing....:-(

[KoKo]

21. We wait for a Candidate to Save us from This! We Have to Save Ourselves

We can't expect a "White Knight" to ride in and make everything better for us. We have to work in our neighborhoods, towns, cities and on the streets to stop this evil thing. The evil on both sides must be stopped.

And, the Evil that resides in the WH calling everyone else "evil" must be taken to task, but that will be in the future. We have to "GO LOCAL." And, we are doing that on the Internet. And we must discuss and not cut each other off and get banned or deleted. We need to hash this all out. Can we do it without getting "Deleted?"

[opihimoimoi]

22. It starts with Unity, Banding together in a way to foster/gather ideas

and concepts.

The DU has a very good opportunity to achieve the distinction of helping Kerry and the Dems to defeat the PUBs and their selfish philosophy.

All we have to do link up in such a way to make it work.

Come, we go surfing, Luaus, laugh/smile.

[KoKo]

25. Thanks, Opi! For bringing it back to making it "laugh/smile." And a

free one for you, on me, tonight! :toast: :-)'s

[opihimoimoi]

28. Cheers and a Mahalo. Sending wine and ribs

Smoked ribs is da bes.

[KamaAina]

26. Eh braddah Opi! Long time you go holoholo, yah?

It's not easy carrying the burden of being the primary Hawai'i DUer, 'specially when you're a three-year short-timer like me!

[opihimoimoi]

27. Eh Kama, WTH you been man? this here is a load, come help.

Has it been 3 years? Damn.

Come, we go drink.

[Mari333]

29. My 2 sons just moved to Hawaii

they live in Kaneohe. I think they love it.