Iraq: To Pull Out or Not To Pull Out. That is the Question. They Love Me

[opihimoimoi]

Poll question: Iraq: To Pull Out or Not To Pull Out. That is the Question. They Love Me

They Love Me Not.

But before we vote: Let us look where we feel Humanity is at.

At what Stage are we as an Intelligent Species?

Do the Nations of the World have their act together? or are we below that? What Stage does Humanity fit into?

Stage 1, Denial, We see nothing wrong with what we think, do.

Stage 2, Anger, when questioned, react with Anger/Conflict

Stage 3, Compromise, Negotiations, Objectivity, Limited Peace.

Stage 4, Acceptance, Peace, No Conflict

Stage 5, Inter Connective, Bonds, Fun, Culture Exchange, Research,
Parties/Luaus

Stage 6, Groups of Nations Band Together in Peace. More Luaus, More
Fun

Stage 7 Global Peace. Sustainability, Stability, Collective Orgasm

Stage 12. Bacteria Level.

This is a simple overview of the big picture. It starts with awareness and ends with How to reach the highest Level with success.

So to answer whether we pull out or not. The Question begs. If we pull out, how? And if we DO NOT Pull Out are we ready to risk a long and costly Lose Lose thing?

[laruemtt]

1. and we're at about a

1.5 stage as an "intelligent" species (the intelligent part is debatable.....)

[opihimoimoi]

2. Yup, we know not what we missing, Pity

[BlueEyedSon]

3. Declare victory and go.

a la Viet Nam....

[opihimoimoi]

4. People know BS when they see it, smell it.

If we just declare Victory and Pull out, it will smell to high places.

[BlueEyedSon]

9. Oh yeah? 50% apparently do not know BS when they see it.

If the Whitehouse says it and the media echo chamber repeats it, it will be "truth".

[mmonk]

5. Hard to say

We've already done what Bin Laden wanted. We conquered a middle Eastern country, Halliburtun controls the oil flow, we're been engaged in bloody fighting with large civilian caualties, we've isolated ourselves internationally and inflamed the Arab world, we've aided Sharon in establishing keeping some settlements and agreeing publicly to no right of return for Palestinians, we're establishing new military bases in a conquered country to be manned indefinitely with 100,000 troops. We sent 120,000 troops to invade and conquer a Middle Eastern country while sending only 13,000 to attack al Queda and the Talliban. Are our leaders on acid or what?

[opihimoimoi]

6. The (PRIZE)(SPICE)(OIL) is SO enticing that these fools wish to

achieve Victory on their Terms, Control/Domination through whatever excuse comes to mind. Rationalization seems to be very popular in the Bush Camp.

Somehow, we must work past this old way of settling things with real and valid solutions.

[NoPasaran]

7. Get Out Get Out Get Out

This whole Iraq war has been a disaster. Every day makes the disaster bigger. We need to get the hell out of there, and now.

[opihimoimoi]

8. Its the War of Wills

leads to confrontation/anger/conflict

Compromise is only option left. Must find way out, cannot only rely on Force, not gonna work.

[NoPasaran]

10. Compromise over what?

There is absolutely no justice in our cause in Iraq. We invaded the place. We wrecked it. Now Halliburton and the rest of Bushco's buddies are reaping billions to pillage Iraqi resources and "rebuild" things while Iraqis are out of work. We need to get out of Iraq and let them sort things out for themselves.

[opihimoimoi]

11. Bush guys will not accept pull out, not unless blood count goes

stratospheric. Loss of Face involved. Believe me, I'm with you in wanting a pull out.

Both sides have some very rigid people who will not "Lose". We got weapons, technology, they got smarts, tenacity, etc.

Perhaps an election over us and our future there. The Iraqis vote to have us stay rebuild fix keep peace or ask us to leave. this way its some sort of face saving thing for both sides.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

12. How 'bout we stay there but on the sidelines?

Sorry- can't vote for one dimensional answers.

[Vladimir]

13. Or indeed leave

but pay reparations and provide civilian aid if asked for it?

I agree about the 1-dim answers, this issue is a touch more complex than should I stay or should I go.

V

[opihimoimoi]

15. I agree, but the Bush guys will not stand for it, they want the Spice

[Vladimir]

16. Yeah, of course

I was just pointing out that there is more to the matter. If we leave, how do we leave? And if we stay, in what capacity do we stay? I know my preferred solution is unlikely, that's life.

V

[opihimoimoi]

17. I have to suspect they are SEARCHING for Options big time

But because of their obstinance, no cigars to date

[opihimoimoi]

14. That would be some sort of compromise but who would prevent sniper action

on our troops? To NY from Mass

[Vladimir]

18. Funny you should say that

I was speaking to a friend of mine who is currently doing an MA in 'War Studies', and he was saying how surprisingly little use of snipers there has been in the Iraq conflict. If you look at Vietnam, snipers were one of the mainstays of the resistance, but not so in Iraq... we were at a loss as to why but guessing at lack of training.

V

[trof]

20. and more body armor. eom

[Vladimir]

21. Yeah, we thought that too...

but my mate was pretty sure that a sniper could take out a flack/kevlar jacket fairly easily... any gun enthusiasts care to confirm/deny that for me?

V

[opihimoimoi]

23. Snipers are one of the forces we use. Should the Resistance gain the

neccessary weapons/training, all hell will break loose. Heaven forbid.

Bush must review his options rather quickly before more damage is done to both sides.

Osama laughing his ass off right about now. Damn.

[trof]

19. How 'bout if we promise to pull out

just before we...you know?
It worked in high school.

But seriously, folks...
President Kerrry writes an open letter of apology to the Iraqi people.
At last he can say that the previous administration made BIG mistakes.
We offer to do anything we can to restore the country's infrastructure.
We only ask safe passage for our troops on the way out.
They get to choose how their country is governed, if at all.
If it breaks up into tribal enclaves, that's up to them.

[opihimoimoi]

22. The Neocons worst nightmare is to have an Islamic State focusing on

revenge on the USA. They feel this is a possibility with heavy odds.

Kerry seems to be on the right track, diplomacy has its rewards far greater than continuous conflict.

Bush has blown it for the NeoCona. They should be pissed but are too embarrassed to admit it, thus they stick with him.