Capitol Gang with Rangel - Discussion Thread

[shoopnyc123]

Discuss...it's live and they have the PDB...

[EstimatedProphet]

1. Where?

What station?

[Doug Decker]

2. CNN...

starts at 4pm PST

[rockymountaindem]

3. "It [the PDB] shatters an otherwise credible performance by Dr. Rice"

"The impression is that Rice was clearly misleading us"

On edit: Novak now doing his thang...

[LittleApple81]

4. Please, could you report on what is being said? No CNN access. n/t

[Dudley_DUright]

5. Al Hunt said that Rice was highly misleading about the contents of the PDB

No, Al she lied under oath about it. She claimed no specific information about location.

[RoyGBiv]

6. Play on words

By using the term "specific" repeatedly, she was covering her ass because she can claim "specific" meant that the PDB didn't give any information that the planes would crash into a specific tower at a specific time on a specific date.

She knew full well what she was doing.

[displacedtexan]

10. John Dean predicted she would do that.

"I believe..."
"not specifically..."
"To the best of my knowledge..."
"I think..."

Her statements can't be qualified as lies.

[VolcanoJen]

7. Smoking Gun: PDB mentions Washington AND New York

Condi said the PDB provided "historical information," and made no mention that the only two cities mentioned in the PDB were WASHINGTON and NEW YORK.

Clandestine, foreign government, and media reports indicate bin Laden since 1997 has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks in the US. Bin Laden implied in U.S. television interviews in 1997 and 1998 that his followers would follow the example of World Trade Center bomber Ramzi Yousef and "bring the fighting to America."

After U.S. missile strikes on his base in Afghanistan in 1998, bin Laden told followers he wanted to retaliate in Washington, according to a (REDACTED) service.

<snip>

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.

[bahrbearian]

11. I

[bahrbearian]

12. I

[EstimatedProphet]

8. The MoveOn ad showed!

It was sweet! Damned effective ad!

[goclark]

9. Novak

Says " I support the troops."
Rangel was marvelous as usual. Says he supported the troops too.
Mark? said this is a dreadful week. Why are the Iraqis gaining more support? We need more troops. Where do we get the troops?

Rangel says that if we really want to support the troops let's get some of the President's buddies from Saudi Arabia ( miss the end)

[rockymountaindem]

14. "Why are people pounding on Bush?"

Asks Novak. He says it's all political...

I'll tell you why people are pounding on Bush*

Achem....

BECAUSE IT'S HIS FAULT WE'RE IN IRAQ

There, I said it. Of course we're criticizing him. Who else are we supposed to criticize?

[EstimatedProphet]

17. Not only that

BECAUSE HE WENT AGAINST THE WISHES OF A LOT OF THE US AND THE REST OF THE WORLD!
The presidency used to be about being the chief executive civil servant. It used to be about formaing and working a government that represents the people. Not anymore.

[skooooo]

15. Also Novak said......

...."And this is not controversial, the military does NOT like Rumsfeld."

That may not be an exact quote, but pretty close.

[0007]

33. Who does like Rumsfeld other than those freaks called the freepers

I guess freerepublican.com is having a tizzy right about now, 'eh?

[EstimatedProphet]

13. Who is this Kate O'Beirne idiot?

She actually said we are going to win in Faluja because the administration is committed to giving the troops what they need! What planet is she living on?

[skooooo]

16. One article in CNBC, I think, said they didn't have enough ammo...

[EstimatedProphet]

19. No body armor, no ammo

Great support. Great.

[goclark]

18. Missed that fool when she said

this administration was doing everything they could to ?

Anyway, the rest of the panel seemed to shut her up.
Who has the link?

[Dudley_DUright]

20. Funny you should ask

I just posted this in the other Capital Gang thread in response to a similar question (but now I have to go take a shower).

http://www.nationalreview.com/masthead/masthead-kob.asp

[EstimatedProphet]

23. Oh god...

She just called Kerry a "Tax-and-spend liberal".
Shill. Lapdog. Voicebox for Bush. Harlot.

[AlCzervik]

37. Kate O'Biern is another--yes media whore

who writes for the nationial review. i hold her in the same contempt i hold Novakula in. Thank God for Mark Shields, gotta love um! He shut her down and Novakula...."Your a real statesmen Bob"...not, that was funny.

[Gramps]

21. I wish the PDB was more specific.

It can be read too many ways. We now know about 9/11, so we can see some of it in the memo using hindsight, but if you showed it to someone who knew nothing about 9/11, I really don't think they would conclude that planes would be flown into buildings (WTC & Pentagon & ???) six weeks later in suicide attacks. We still don't know for sure which building in DC flight 93 was heading for (the one that crashed in a field in PA)!

[MGKrebs]

26. That's funny, that's what Condi said.

In other words, it's the low level translators and wiretappers who are supposed to somehow connect the dots and make an analysis. Certainly NOT the NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR, who's experience includes Provost of Stanford, Board of Directors of Chevron, and a European expert (sic) under Bush the 1st. It couldn't possibly be her job or responsibility to see "the big picture" and take SOME kind of action... ANY kind of action, to respond to a potential, even vague, threat.

[EstimatedProphet]

38. Of course not!

Her job was to collect the memos that her staff produced and put them on Bush's desk. That's what the National Security Advisor should do! Otherwise they will be giving their opinion of what's going on, and that might influence things...
Complete idiocy.

[dennis4868]

27. First of all....

we only have the redacted version so perhaps some specifics were taken out to protect Bush. Having said that, I think the PDB was more specific than I thought it would be....especially the last 4 sentences....this should have raised a red flag and the government should have gone to "battle stations" so that they could "shake the trees" as Clarke said in his book and testimony. Also, remember, Bush was getting briefed for months about al Qaeda threats. The PDB was not the only intelligence report dealing with al Qaeda...it was only a small part of it all.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

29. Right. More specific. New York City and hijackings are just too vague..

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[VolcanoJen]

30. Cute!!! Do you work for the White House?

Exactly how much do you personally expect from the President, and the vast agencies at his disposal, when it comes to achieving their number one job: National Security?

Your expectations must be ridiculously low.

[Gramps]

32. What I meant was...

that if the PDB was more specific, then it would be clearer that Rice lied and that Bush knew enough to prevent the attack. If it was clearer, then they'd be nailed. Since it is not clear, the Repubs can easily spin it. Clearer would have been better.

[rocketdem]

39. It's not about "could have been prevented"

Whether or not the 9/11 attacks could have been prevented is something of a red herring. Yes, it would have been wonderful, obviously, if the attack had been prevented as were the millennium attacks of a couple of years before.

If the current administration to at least point to a broad and comprehensive effort to protect the public, then their asses would be covered. The real point is that essentially nothing was done. Nothing.

The Dork in Chief was on vacation and the rest of the administration was too busy pushing missile defense to worry about actually doing their job to protect the American people.

[MGKrebs]

22. What does Novak think "victory" will look like?

This is not a war of attrition with an army. These people live there! Every one we kill creates two more to take their place. We can't possibly kill enough to make them "surrender".

[skooooo]

24. "Bush's economic plan has....

...produced more gay marriages than jobs."

LMAO

What's the name of the guy who said that? That was hilarious. It was th host of the show..

[Dudley_DUright]

25. Mark Shields

He is feeling especially feisty tonight.

[JoFerret]

28. Schields was really fired up

on the Lehrer NewsHour on Friday. He has the bug.

[NewJeffCT]

34. that is hysterical!

I could see John Stewert saying that on the Daily Show...

[Earth_First]

31. Mr. Rangel mention anything about H.R. 163?

...the draft

[mandyky]

35. Rangel said very little

O'Brien and Novak are in denial. Calling the commission partisan!

[Bozita]

36. The panel seemed unusually high strung tonight ... all 4 of 'em

Lotta raised voices and even more interrupting.

Tonght's show sounded more like Crossfire.