What's your best argument to get conservative Christians to support...

[truizm]

gay marriage?

Here is what he's spewing: "I think we should learn from the mistakes of history.. Every government that has protected homosexuality has fallen within 50 years.. That would be the kiss of death, more or less... We need to ban the garbage...

You hear all of this about gay marriage and such.. When only about 2 percent of the population is even gay... Hmmm, liberal agenda?"

Lol.

[ACK]

1. Your kidding right?

No way a fundie is changing their mind on gay marriage.

[Mountainman]

2. All that is propaganda. Homophobe bating stuff

Until they go to church and the minister tells them that God is for gay marriage the fundies will not change their minds.

[trotsky]

3. Well, you could point out Bible verses

The ones that say a man is still allowed concubines if he marries, and that sort of stuff.

[karabekian]

4. you may try a libertarian angle

argue that the government has no reason to be involved in marriage as it is a religious cerimony

[truizm]

8. Nah, this particular fundie doesn't know what libertarianism is...

It actually is possible to convert fundies to the truth. It's pretty rare but it can be done.

[donviti]

9. I tried that one

To a born again and he said that the government has defined marriage as "between a man and a woman" so he sidestepped the issue....they all will.

Beat your head against a wall. You will get better results.

[doni_georgia]

5. ROFLMAO!

:kick:

[ThomWV]

6. He Is The AntiChrist

My born again friends, and I have a few are well aware that I have no religious beliefs at all. So I simply say, "I think George W. Bush is what you all would call the AntiChrist, but I think that you would know better than I if he meets the criteria." I then go on to mention the thousands of deaths that have resulted directly from his actions and his generally immoral life. What this does is get them to thinking. They start to see if his misdeeds fit their mold for a demon, and in so doing he is demeaned in their eyes even if he does come up as loosing in his bid for AntiChrist. Its a win win for me.

[truizm]

10. Yea, I do that too. I have a list of about 100 things Bush has done that

run counter-opposite of Christ's message but it always comes back to gay marriage.

It's really sad how many Christians are indoctrinated with blind support for Republicans.

[BlueEyedSon]

7. Which governments are these?

Arguably all governments that have condemned homosexuality has fallen too, because every government eventually falls.

[The Traveler]

11. Hey ... anyone know of an example

of a government that protected homosexuality and that fell within 50 years?

[MsUnderstood]

12. The one best arguement I have found

The one best arguement I have found is here <a href="http://www.godmademegay.com">God Made Me Gay</a>

It is the story told from a religious perspective about why gays are okay.

[truizm]

15. Thanks

[The Traveler]

20. Thanks very much for posting this

A fascinating read. A really powerful statement. Holy shit. A traditional Southern Baptist ... "We Baptists believe that each person must interpret the Bible for himself or herself; we are not to let anyone else control our thinking about scripture" ... I thought with the exception of Jimmy Carter they had been taken over by pod people planted by Jerry Falwell. Clearly guys like this are members of an endangered species.

Bookmarked. Emailing link to everyone I know.

[alvis]

13. Didn't Iraq...uh never mind n/t

[NewJeffCT]

19. no idea, but

Old Rome, I thought, had it for centuries? I don't see signs of Holland falling any time soon (weren't they the first to legalize it worldwide?)

Heck, the Christian church performed gay marriages until the 1300s and they seem to have lasted a little while, eh?

[LoZoccolo]

14. Make the issue one of boring government beaurocracy.

Whether or not he accepts this or that as having sacramental value in his religion is nothing you can really change - the constitution protects his right to believe anything he wants about marraige (including the belief that no one should get married).

You may, however, get him to support civil unions if you were to simply define it as a government acknowledgement of sharing resources - one that could be extended to non-sexual relationships (like nuns on a convent, roommates). Heterosexual marraige would simply be recognized as a civil union as well (this would acknowledge that separation of church and state was violated in establishing that in the first place), and equal rights for all these arrangements could be established.

[HFishbine]

16. The Greeks

survived a little longer than 50 years. (Although I confess not to know what their modern laws are on the matter.)

[DaveSZ]

17. .

"It actually is possible to convert fundies to the truth. It's pretty rare but it can be done."


This made me laugh because it reminded me of those Fundie schools they have to convert gay people to heterosexuality.

:D

[struggle4progress]

18. Who are you trying to convert?

Somebody who's voting for *, BECAUSE of this single issue, won't change.

With somebody who votes on a mixture of issues, talk about the other issues. Americans generally aren't voting on this alone.

Maybe government should construct only civil unions and only religious authorities should "marry." I think my own church's position ought to be: (1) we generally try to follow natural law (ie different sexes marry); but (2) allow exceptions for individuals unable to form intimate affectionate bonds with members of the opposite sex; and (3) generally leave application of (1) and (2) to individual conscience. That leaves room for discomfort, revelation, and some MYOB.

For the constitutional question, ask them to read existing constitutional amendments: they're structural and procedural.

[Festivito]

21. When Falwell loses all his oil stocks.

And, that's not going to happen soon.

Otherwise a major forum, having them refute alternate interpretations that dispute Sodom and Gomorrah's sin as inhospitality rather than sexual advance.

The troubles with that is mounds of rhetoric, getting them to come, actually having them respond, recording it, and worst of all: having any of those people feel a bit of hospitality.

They do not know there are alternate interpretations and they do not care to know what they are.

To stop the fundies, it might be best to turn them off, then they might not show at polls.

[cally]

22. This is what I say

Humans were created in God's image. Homosexuality( I mean that to include lesbianism) is not a choice. Sometimes I mention homosexuality in bonobo apes just because it fascinates me. Then I go into the philosophy. I just start talking about what God means and basically love conquers all. I start talking about Jesus message that helping those in need and we really don't have time or energy to discuss expressions of love. Let's focus on the mission of the church and Jesus.

I don't know if folks support gay marriage after this, but I have observed that they are supportive of gay rights after my discussion.

[leesa]

23. So let me get this straight, gay marriage is going to destroy our country

Never mind the fact that we have basically forced every country on the planet to re-arm with nuclear weapons after they saw what happened to disarmed Iraq. Never mind that every country on earth now despises us for the death and destruction we have wreaked since WWII. Never mind that the rich trash in this country has just finished looting our treasury and sent all our jobs away, which means the treasury will never be replenished. Never mind all that stuff.

Gays, getting married, is what is going to destroy our country.

I don't think I would bother to respond.