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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 07:55 PM
Original message
Looks like there's now an Iraqi Declaration of Independence
Edited on Tue Apr-06-04 08:02 PM by Walt Starr
...and the language will bring the Kurds on board. I am posting it in its entirty as it is a public document:

Political communiqué issued by the Iraqi Resistance

A Unified Council for the Iraqi Resistance

Al-Moharer.net
Unofficial translation by Behnam Keryo, a staff member of Al-Moharer

O' you proud sons of Iraq,

O' you Arabs of honor,

O' you freedom lovers all around the world

In these days, a year will have gone by, since the British-US led aggression launched by Bush-Blair on behalf of Zionism against Iraq, the Land of the two rivers, the cradle of civilization and the center of glory and splendid history. Having lost all their pretexts to justify their aggression and to impose the logic of occupation, we see today these gangsters and thugs, loosing their minds in front of the mounting heroic resistance and the valiant attacks. You hear their leaders and their civil governor who have nothing else to announce to Iraqis but that more dark days are awaiting them. Yes God willing, there will be darker days for the invaders and aggressors. By the Grace of the almighty God and the will of our people, let the year 2004 be the year of complete liberation.

Ten months ago the National Council for the Iraqi Resistance was born, it included battalions of Mujahideen from the Baath militants, men of the armed forces, and heroes of the national security apparatus and with them, in a complete solidarity, tens of thousands of Iraqis patriots who refuse the occupation and humiliation. The noble Sheikhs of tribes, the religious Mujahideen and scores of Islamic forces have joined this courageous resistance, in order to form an organizational framework to conduct operations and to coordinate the resistance programmes and actions according to the development of the military situation and the political environment. In order to make things clear, the Unified National Council for the Iraqi Resistance, UNCIR announces its' political programme to all the Iraqis and all Arabs of honor. It calls upon those Iraqis who erred and faulted by serving the occupation in any way to think twice about what they are doing and to immediately change this non-honorable attitude, and return to the bosom of the Resistance. May God forgive them for what they have done in the past.

On this occasion, we like to assert the following:

1) An absolute global rejection of the occupation, its tools, its agents and whatever emanates out of it, such as structures, titles, and treacherous committees serving the invaders and betraying the people. We call upon everyone including the members of the Governing Council to repent at once and to distance themselves from this fire that will consume them soon, and to consider all its decisions and recommendations null because what has been built on a false base is false.

2) The continuity of the Resistance in all its armed forms, and the mobilization of masses through demonstrations and protests, boycott of the occupation and all its structures, through every possible means until the departing of the last soldier from Iraq, and we will never accept anything less than that. Let everyone know that he who resists and who takes upon himself the duty to resist the invaders and chase them to liberate Iraq, he is the one capable of directing Iraq and rebuilding it, and there will be no room inside Iraq for traitors, thugs or mercenaries.

3) Immediately after the departure of the invaders, and the liberation of Iraq, we call to the return of the State in all its sovereign national and organizational institutions and the return of the Army as a unified national institution as it existed before April 9th 2003.

4) The National Council will announce, at the right time, the constitution of a new National Union Transitional Government for two years. The transitional government will assume the role of sovereignty and representation of Iraq. It will accomplish the urgent national task of healing the wounds and to helping those who suffered among the people. It will be in charge of reconstructing the State managing structures and its vital services including the following national missions:

a) To organize, in two years time, new elections for the new national council supervised by the Arab League and international observers and respected international organizations concerned with democratic Processes.

b) To create an Advisory Council of 150 members known for their wisdom and honesty chosen from loyal Iraqis, those who did not maculate their hands with the invaders, to be considered as the Council of Wise men and providing advice and expressing views to the transitional government and participating with the Ministers Council to prepare a permanent Constitution for the country, which will contain all of the countrymen fundamental rights, thus safeguarding the unity of Iraq and its Arabic identity. This Constitution will be proposed via a popular referendum 18 months after the departure of the invaders.

The Advisory Council and the Transitional Government will immediately act to abolish all emergency laws and decisions that were issued before.

c) After signing the permanent Constitution, the nationally elected Assembly meets the Advisory Council to elect the President of the Republic and his Vice-President for 5 years. The name of the President will be exposed to the people for a general Referendum, in which the candidate must obtain 60% of the votes in this election.

d) To establish political freedoms according to a specific law allowing the freedom of creating political parties, associations and civil society organizations, and the creation of newspapers and to establish freedom of the press taking into account the patriotic criteria, the 'good man in the good place' policy with loyalty as a base to procure employment in the civil services and to impose the notion of the State of the Law, the respect of the political system and the institutions.

e) To create High Council for Human Rights which will include personalities known for their rectitude and national loyalty. This Council will enjoy large powers to investigate and bring to accountability those who don't respect the Human Right of the Iraqis, or their dignity. The Council will report its resolutions and recommendations directly to the President of the Republic, the Prime Minister and the National Assembly, so as to act in the spirit of unity and to reject the ugly politics based on confessional background and sustain the principal of equality in front of the law.

f) To develop the law of autonomy for Iraqi Kurdistan, to guarantee the national and cultural rights of the Kurdish area inside the frame of a unified Iraq, its sovereignty, and discuss these matters in the spirit of dialogue and openness with the Kurdish forces, standing on the unalterable bases of the flag, sovereignty, foreign affairs and the national security of Iraq.

Finally, the Unified National Council for the Iraqi Resistance salute, with great pride and honor, the sacrifices of the glorious martyrs of Iraq, and also greet and salute all the hostages and detainees, imprisoned in the occupation jails.... and God willing the day of victory is coming so on as God has promised that the few shall vanquish a multitude, God willing.

The National Unified Council for the Iraqi Resistance UNCIR

The Political Branch


OOPS!!! Edited to add the link:

http://www.al-moharer.net/mohhtm/moh_trans175.htm
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skooooo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. WONDERFUL plan!

Now can we leave? I think they got the idea...
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Waverley_Hills_Hiker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. where did you get this?
do you have a link?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Just added the link
Thought I had it in there to begin with. Now doing a Whois on Al-Moharer.net
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:02 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yes
Link please - where did you get this??
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alcuno Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. From ours...
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. What freaks me out is Assertion 4 Paragraph f)
"f) To develop the law of autonomy for Iraqi Kurdistan, to guarantee the national and cultural rights of the Kurdish area inside the frame of a unified Iraq, its sovereignty, and discuss these matters in the spirit of dialogue and openness with the Kurdish forces, standing on the unalterable bases of the flag, sovereignty, foreign affairs and the national security of Iraq. "
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. What do you mean?
In a good way or a bad way?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Good for the Iraqis
Devestating for our poor troops.

Right now you have the Sunnis and the Shiites united in this insurrection. Bring the Kurds on board and thousands of our young men and women come home in a body bag.
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. If the Kurds came on board, and there was unambiguous Iraqi public support
for these people (which would imply no civil war), then they would have their national self determination, their democracy, and we could leave. Which would mean no more bodybags for our soldiers, and the free & democratic Iraq that everyone would like to see.

Of course, our leadership would have to be bright enough to take a hint, which is the only worrying part of such an eventuality, should it come to pass. If we didn't withdraw then, we would be acting TRULY and UNDENIABLY imperialistically.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. There is absolutely no fucking way we would leave
Edited on Tue Apr-06-04 08:49 PM by Walt Starr
without a State of Forces Agreement. PNAC going into Iraq in the first place was to put a long term military presence into the heart of the Arab world.
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Yes, that's the only problem
But at that point, our leaders couldn't use any rhetoric about bringing democracy to Iraq at that point with any effect whatsoever. Support for continuing the war/occupation would plummet to late type Vietnam levels, and only those who think that an appropriate US policy is to kill every Arab who breathes air would support continued occupation. And hopefully by that time Kerry would be in power, and he would be much more likely to have the sense to pull out. Whatever one can say about him, he ain't no PNACer.

I for, example support staying in Iraq to prevent a quite possibly genocidal civil war, but under those circumstances I would be ALL for pulling out.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
28. Ahhh, but while these folks are forming their own governement
Dumbass* is forming a puppet government which will declare everybody in the Resistance government "outlaws".

Which governement do you think the U.S. is going to recognize?

Now you know why Bush is standing firm on his June 30 date.
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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #8
40. Will freak out the Turks as well n/t
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Maybe not
"f) To develop the law of autonomy for Iraqi Kurdistan, to guarantee the national and cultural rights of the Kurdish area inside the frame of a unified Iraq, its sovereignty, and discuss these matters in the spirit of dialogue and openness with the Kurdish forces, standing on the unalterable bases of the flag, sovereignty, foreign affairs and the national security of Iraq.
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hel Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #40
45. Actually, no
Considering current situation and Kurds' position as America's favorites, this is the best Turkey could and does expect from a new Iraqi regime.

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. That's why I think it was worded as it was
The Kurds get autonomy in their region, but they're still a part of a "unified Iraq".

Tha tlanguage is win-win for the Kurds AND the Turks. Shit, if this thing takes off there, the Turks could end up siding with the Iraqis.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. Checkmate n/t
Edited on Tue Apr-06-04 08:05 PM by NNN0LHI
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bpilgrim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. zactly
and i wonder how our side is gonna react to that, SPECIALLY jfk.



peace
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JohnLocke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:07 PM
Response to Original message
7. "On behalf of Zionism against Iraq"?? WTF? (nt)
Edited on Tue Apr-06-04 08:08 PM by JohnLocke
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Sharon egged on Bush. It's a true statement
even if the language is not "politically correct".
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. That's the kind of stuff you have in declarations of independence
I don't think George III much liked being hauled through the mud by Jefferson.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. The best muckraking of George by Thomas was edited out, though
Sadly.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Israel and her American friends lobbied for the invasion of Iraq
A similar contemporary article about the AIPAC conference, and the Iraq issue prior to the war, has been relegated to the Washington Post's memory hole.

Background: AIPAC and the Iraqi opposition

By Nathan Guttman

WASHINGTON - An unusual visitor was invited to address the annual conference held last week in Washington by AIPAC, the pro-Israeli lobby in the United States: the head of the Washington office of the Iraqi National Congress, Intifad Qanbar. The INC is one of the main opposition groups outside Iraq, and its leaders consider themselves natural candidates for leadership positions in the post-Saddam Hussein era. Qanbar's invitation to the conference reflects a first attempt to disclose the links between the American Jewish community and the Iraqi opposition, after years in which the two sides have taken pains to conceal them.

The considerations against openly disclosing the extent of cooperation are obvious - revelation of overly close links with Jews will not serve the interests of the organizations aspiring to lead the Iraqi people. Currently, at the height of rivalry over future leadership of the country among opposition groups abroad, the domestic opposition and Iraqi citizens, it is most certainly undesirable for the Jewish lobby to forge - or flaunt - especially close links with any one of the groups, in a way that would cause its alienation from the others.

<snip>

The Jewish groups maintain quiet contacts with nearly every Iraqi opposition group, and in the past have even met with the most prominent opposition leader, Ahmed Chalabi. The main objective was an exchange of information, but there was also an attempt to persuade the Iraqis of the need for good relations with Israel and with world Jewry.

"You have to be realistic about your aims," says one Jewish activist. "You have to understand that Iraq will be an Arab state, and that it won't want to adopt a controversial foreign policy."

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=281270
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. They care more about the settlements than about Israel
If they cared about Israel, they should be calling for an end to the occupation.

For our part, if we really cared about our troops, we should be calling for and to our occupation of Iraq.
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Media_Lies_Daily Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
37. I thought that phrase was pretty clear, IMHO.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. OMFG - We ARE bringing Democracy to Iraq
in the exact opposite way we intended

irony, gotta love it.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. al-Sadr knows damn well and good that democracy in Iraq means
Shia rule.
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yes, the 60% approval for referrendum is interesting
60% Shia. 60% referrendum.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. we knew that going in, as well
what do you propose?

I'm a fan of the 3-state solution.
I'm also a fan of letting Iraq decide what's best for them & if this is it, then so be it.
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
36. Small correction - "in the exact opposite way BUSHCO intended".
I and a vast and overwhelming majority of others the world over have hope and prayed for something like this.

I don't think bunkerboy and his gang of criminals will be pleased - which also makes me more happy.
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
12. If
Edited on Tue Apr-06-04 08:19 PM by Mattforclark
a) they can prevent civil war
b) their democratic/human rights type rhetoric isn't just rhetoric
c) do in fact have popular support (not just from one ethnic group) and the legitimacy that comes with it

Then that sounds to me like national self-determination & we should "hand over" power to them.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. It NeoTraces to a server in Southern California? n/t
Edited on Tue Apr-06-04 08:25 PM by NNN0LHI
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
25. The WHOIS is as follows
with specific phone number information removed:

Registrant:
Al-Moharer News Service
142-67th. Street
West New York, NJ 07093
US

Domain name: AL-MOHARER.NET

Administrative Contact:
Ebeid, Ibrahim [email protected]
142-67th. Street
West New York, NJ 07093
US
XXX-XXX-XXXX Fax: XXX-XXX-XXXX

Technical Contact:
Manager, Domain [email protected]
2800 28th Street Suite 205
Santa Monica, California 90405
US
XXX-XXX-XXXX Fax: XXX-XXX-XXXX
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sspiderjohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:37 PM
Response to Original message
24. Lots of other good articles at this site, too -- thanks
nm
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ConcernedCanuk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
29. Quite the site! They been collecting info since the Gulf war 1
Edited on Tue Apr-06-04 08:53 PM by ConcernedCanuk
.
.
.

A search for "rumsfeld" pulls up 134 documents!

RESULTS

And check out their "page of lies"

http://feralnews.com/links/iraq_lies.html

I got some snoopin' to do here !!
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Yep, it's a pretty good resource. n/t
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
31. This is BAD for Bush
Think of how this will go over when you have two governments vying for power in a country that is about the size of Texas. I love that the Iraqis are showing they understand what Democracy means, but I don't think this will go over very well once Bush sets up his puppet gov't. This will get ugly, and more American men and women will die as a result.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. He's got one chance and one chance only
Bush* MUST eliminate eveybody in the resistance. We are talking total annihiliaton. Anything short of that and he's got two governements, one developed from within and one viewed as a puppet governement by the entire world.

On top of that, he can ONLY get his SoFA if HIS governement retains power. As sangh0 pointed out in aother thread, this is vital to the PNAC plan because there is no guarantee Bush will retain power.

We're working on an extremely shortened timeline here. Less than three months and it's over one way or the other. If not, prepare for potentially tens of thousands of our young coming home in "Transfer Tubes".
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
34. Thank You For Presenting This Document, Mr. Starr
It is a formidable one, likely to be very well received by the people of Iraq, and well suited to serve as a basis, and unifying principle, for intensified and sustained resistance to U.S. occupation.

"Another fine mess you've got us in, Ollie!"

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-04 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. kick
anyone know of any confirmation of this thing's genuineness?
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 05:56 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. Kick!
:kick:
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:09 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. Read the rest of the site
They've been compiling data since GWI
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
41. This could really destroy the Middle East as we know it
Turkey isn't going to like that whole Kurdistan thing...

"Bush is fuckin' UP!" -Dave Chappelle
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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
42. Baath militants, heroes of the national security apparatus
Sounds like "Sadam's Flunkies and Sadam's secret police".
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. Saddam's gone & they're just figuring out what they want to do.
Pretty much all of them agree the US should get out of Iraq.

Most of us believe the same.

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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Do you think
The people of Iraq want these guys back in power? I would think you
would get more popular support by not mentioning the secret police, but thats based on soviet block secret police, do the Iraqi's have higher regard for these guys?

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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
47. Kick
Okay, maybe others don't think this is important, but I'm willing to bet that if this document is real, it will be all over Iraq within a week...

and not one word of it in U.S. press will be heard.
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Mattforclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. This is very important...
IF it is genuine. I haven't been able to find it anywhere else except that one website you linked to.
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mulethree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-07-04 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
50. kick n/t
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