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You thought "Peak oil" was bad, well what about generational war?

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blurp Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 02:38 AM
Original message
You thought "Peak oil" was bad, well what about generational war?
Edited on Wed Mar-24-04 01:45 PM by Skinner
Here's something else for everyone (under 50) to worry about.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/if/3520800.stm

Why your parents are ripping you off

By Laurence Kotlikoff
Professor of economics, Boston University


Are we heading for conflict between the older and younger generations? It's the scenario played out in this week's drama documentary If...the Generations Fall Out.

Far-fetched? Not so, says Laurence Kotlikoff, professor of economics at Boston University, who thinks that unless the baby boomers pay up, parents and children could soon be at war.

Whether we want to accept it or not, the entire developed world is getting old, indeed, very old.

Over the next three decades the numbers of oldsters in the EU, Japan, and the US will more than double, while the number of workers expected to pay the elderly their state pension and health care benefits will rise by less than 10%.

EDITED BY ADMIN: COPYRIGHT

More at

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/if/3520800.stm
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JaySherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. I don't know about generational "war"
Edited on Wed Mar-24-04 02:56 AM by JaySherman
But this will surely be a hot-button issue for the politicians of the future. I could see a scenario unfolding where younger voters say "Screw you. We're not paying for you!" similar to what seniors are doing to them at the polls now by voting against additional school funding, etc.,. Both are equally selfish and wrong IMO.

What really concerns me is how we're going to take care of all those people, especially since I'll be one of them someday. Given how terrible so much convalescent care is now, the prospect of mass-institutionalized care for seniors almost makes dying young an attractive option.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
2. UNLESS WE PAY UP ???????
Edited on Wed Mar-24-04 03:04 AM by SoCalDem
We have been doing NOTHING BUT PAYING UP...since we turned 18..
and "lucky us", we are the first generation who has "long-lived" parents and grands who are relying on us to care for them while our "can't-find-a-job-that-pays-enough-to-live-on" grown kids are bouncing back and forth from our homes...and while we do all this we are expected to work until we drop dead at our desks, BUT also "get the hell out of the way, so younger folks can have our jobs"...AND BTW..SAVE for our retirement, even though the FICA was RAISED HUGELY, just at the time we were TRYING to buy first houses and raise small children...(the reason given..SO WE WOULD HAVE PLENTY OF MONEY AVAILABLE WHEN WE RETIRED)...

This SO pisses me off..

We are no SURPRISE..They have known about us for DECADES.. They can just cut the damned military budget...Maybe without all OUR MONEY available to them, they would not be out pissing everyone off and fighting stupid wars :grr:
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Yesiree Bob.....I'm STILL raising my grandson! His plight is what is
fondly known as a"layaway" child. Adult children can't or won't find work, so my door "revovles" with them in and out, in and out. Now, I get the whole enchilada with having to raise a teenage boy.

There goes my Winnebego.......
Whoopie do!! lol
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screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Right on, Brother!
We've been taxed at every turn. When our kids got out of college, they started deductions for the loans. When they got out of the house, they upped the deduction for dependents. Who wrote this crap. I'm ready to turn Amish and quit paying into SS because I know I'll never see a dime of my money. How about they just give us back our FICA taxes with interest and screw SS. I could live with that.
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
3. Well, then perhaps the children should take their parents into their homes
when they age? They've been doing it in Asia for eons.

I'm 55, so this is offensive to me. Some people have more money than God but don't know how to use it and won't share it.

Lack of foresight on this issue is just plain ignorance. Who in the hell is running this world?! EVERYONE will get old ...so if the young now are all freaked out, just wait until THEY get old and start hurting and people start leering at them with disrespect and they can no longer bend down to pull up their socks. lol

This article sounds like a "Solent Green" plan. geeeeez
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blurp Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I'd rather take them in !
Well, then perhaps the children should take their parents into their homes when they age? They've been doing it in Asia for eons.

I'd much rather do that than be taxed at a rate that amounts to involuntary servitude.

I'm 55, so this is offensive to me. Some people have more money than God but don't know how to use it and won't share it.

Yeah, some people do, but most don't. And even if all that money were available to give away it wouldn't solve the problem.

Lack of foresight on this issue is just plain ignorance.

Just what do you want us to do? We can't go back in time and make baby boomers save their money.

Who in the hell is running this world?! EVERYONE will get old ...so if the young now are all freaked out, just wait until THEY get old and start hurting and people start leering at them with disrespect and they can no longer bend down to pull up their socks. lol

We're "freaked out" not because we'll get old, but because the burden on us will be much greater than it has been for others in the past.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 03:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. "..make baby boomers save their money.."
Edited on Wed Mar-24-04 03:28 AM by SoCalDem
Listen, BUB..We DID save our money.. We PUT YOU THROUGH SCHOOL, cared for Granny & Grandad...Gave you a pretty decent life..AND we had the HIGHEST TAXATION RATES ever..(Have you ever had to buy a house at 15.7% interest???)..to PREPAY our way.. Maybe the "youngsters" should get off their asses and try VOTING once in a while.. We are TIRED of carrying the whole laod here..

and..Clean your room and pick up your socks.. We may have to still support you, but we aren;t your maids :) :hi:
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. LOL ...SoCalDem ...........you go girl!
It IS the elders that do the most voting. We've seen the past, we see the now, we can see the future.....
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 03:43 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Well look at it this way................
IF this economy doesn't turn around you will be as needy as we are very very shortly. Who's going to help YOU when that happens?

Your reply is a bit insensitive. What shall we do with the disabled then?? Eat them too? You are too young to understand that "stuff happens". Look at those folks at Enron who DID save for their future but got ripped off! What then?

People take better care of their freepin animals than they do other human beings. What if an aged person has lost their children early or didn't have any at all? Perhaps this issue is a good case for the Pro-lifers.......more people, more potential taxpayers????

This is why I constantly urge a more socialistic form of government. Not like those we've seen, but something with a twist--American style, if you will. If, over all these years, I had been allowed to buy single payer life insurance or health insurance, for example, no matter whether I had a "good" job or none, I would be in waaaaaaaaay better shape than I am now. If we pooled our monies this way (without having to go through "extortionist" Insurance Companies/coporations) that is largly provided "affordably" only through some (not all) employers I think it might be a start in answering this problem.
Respectfully........
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mitchtv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 05:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. so freaked out
maybe they'll get out and vote
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 04:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. Huge problem
In countries like the UAE something like 60% of citizens are under the age of 30.

Ditto for countries like Iran.

The revolution is coming... the only question is when and what form it will take.
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spinbaby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 06:01 AM
Response to Original message
11. Yeah, the boomers are screwed
Social security and medicare are both scheduled to collapse when I turn 65.

China seems to have come up with a partial solution. They have a system in which retired people put in time taking care of other seniors who need help--driving, shopping, housekeeping, etc. Then, when they need help, they get as many hours of free help as they gave help. Seems like a good idea with few costs.
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JNelson6563 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 06:05 AM
Response to Original message
12. I have noticed the current situation is different
******Disclaimer*******I know not all of the current generation who are now the grandparents are not included in the situation I am about to share my views on. I hope those it does not apply to take no offense******************

In my personal experience the generation that has been and is dying out was much different than many of those I know hitting the grandparent period.

The generation now dying out was real careful with money. Wanted to sit on it to help the kids and/or provide for expensive nursing home for themselves. Many left large fortunes.

I have been shocked to witness the utter self-centeredness of the next generation (again, I know this doesn't mean all in this age group). I have seen fortunes squandered in Vegas as well as various massive wasteful spending. Some of this going on while their grown kids struggled endlessly--some even having to forego medical attention for their own babies while mom/dad were off on cruise or dropping thousands on impulse items.

Those with this kind of money are living for RIGHT NOW. Nothing matters more than their personal comfort and pleasure.

Yes, we have plenty of older folks struggling and/or going without due to helping others. One would hope their fellow seniors would care but in many cases, they do not. It's the classic "I've got mine you get yours". The only thing worth laughing at is those who now jealously guard theirs, making sure it's only spent on themselves, inherited their fortunes. It'd be less laughable if they'd actually acquired it themselves~~in many cases they didn't.

The "let's do it together" attitude is non-existent and it ain't limited to any generation. Damn sad. Seems individual "salvation" still beats out the "greater good" hands down.

Julie

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tlcandie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 06:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. It seems like those who have nothing will be the ones who will have
the least to lose in this scenario. They are use to taking care of each other and not depending on anything but themselves and their families. Maybe those in countries like Venezuela will be the ones who rise to the top while the rest of us sink lower than low. :shrug:
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megatherium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
15. The Humane Care Act of 2017
will provide for the euthanasia of those no longer able to care for themselves.
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-24-04 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
16. blurp
Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
news source.

Thank you.

DU Moderator
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