Do you believe 9-11 was allowed to happen?

[Q]

- I won't rehash the details...we've been discussing 9-11 for a long time here at DU. I'd just like to know what YOU think about this issue.

- So...given all you know and the new information that trickles out daily concerning September 11, 2001:

Do you think the Bush* administration was somehow responsible for 9-11? Did they see it coming and allow it to happen for political advantage and to implement the PNAC plan? (Keep in mind that the PNAC document declared that another disaster like "Pearl Harbor" was needed for their plan to be successfully implemented.)

- My opinion: the FACTS show that at the very least...the Bush* government knew what was coming and allowed it to take place by ordering a standdown of US defenses.

[Speed8098]

1. I firmly believe they LIHOP

Just my opinion, but I don't believe in coincidences and 9/11 was just too coincindental.

[Q]

6. Agreed...but more than that...

...Americans must be made aware of the importance of knowing the TRUTH about this issue.

- After all...the 'war on terrorism', preemptive deterrence, shadow government, homeland 'security', Patriot Act(s) and Bush's* base of power are all a direct result of 9-11.

- It's looking more and more like 9-11 was just one in a series of events planned long ago to bring a new cold war and defense industry economy.

- Don't expect the truth anytime soon: the Bushies understand that the truth about 9-11 is the pandora's box that could bring them down.

[goddess40]

48. Yes, Yes, Yes

I have felt that way since the initial shock wore off that something was just not right (or maybe too right) about 9/11.

[HFishbine]

84. LIHOP?

Damnit! I'm fast approaching the 1,000 post mark and I still don't know what LIHOP is....

Am I an unworhty DUer?

[Darranar]

97. .LIHOP...

Let it happen on purpose.

MIHOP: Made it happen on purpose.

You aren't an unworthy DUer. It took me a while as well.

[LEFTofLEFT]

85. YES YES YES

And YES again

[bearfartinthewoods]

103. you base your firm conviction on the fact that it was too coincidental?

Sheesh....bush blows up his own precious pentagon...the source of the power he wishes to wield....yeah....right.

[lcordero]

2. I feel that the whole "attack" was scripted from start to finish

[deutsey]

3. Either they LIHOP

or they were complete incompetents. The more I hear, the more I lean toward LIHOP (I've only recently started to think this, based on the evidence that's out there...).

Either way, they compromised our national security.

[bowens43]

4. Yes.

I think they knew the attack was coming and took an active roll in ensuring it's success.

[trumad]

8. Awfully ambiguous question

Allowed can be construed in so many ways.. ;-)

[izzie]

38. I think they may have know 'something' was going to happen

Not a thing like this but you must recall bin Larden said he did not think the buiding would come down.

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. No one ordered

a standdown, rather they didn't order anyone to do anything.

They all sat on their hands for as long as possible. Only after the Pentagon was hit did any of the top Bu$h people initiate any type of response. For the most part, if you look at their behavior from 9:00 to 9:30 AM, most of them act totally inappropiately.

Unlike most Americans who stopped whatever it was they were doing as soon as they heard that two airplanes had hit the WTC, W & Co. continued to behave as if it was just another day. Keep in mind, that most Americans found out at around 9:05 that both towers had been attacked. You would think W & Co would have know what was going down a lot earlier than that.

[Q]

11. "they didn't order anyone to do anything"

- From what I've read...that's not the way it works. There is a standing order to intercept planes deviating from standard operating procedure.

- It's interesting that most people seem to understand that something went really wrong on 9-11 and that the Bushies didn't do their job...and few of these same people have the nerve to come right out and say it.

[Minstrel Boy]

30. there's no explaining away

the complete collapse of standard operating procedure that morning. Remember when Payne Stewart's private jet went off course a year before? A fighter jet was alongside it in 15 minutes. No one waited for a presidential order.

There are so many damn dots, and a great reluctance on the part of many to connect them. No one wants to believe their government could act with such disregard for American lives. But just look at Operation Northwoods, which the Joint Chiefs proposed to Kennedy in 1962 (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/doc1.pdf). They proposed to stage terrorist attacks in the US and pin them on Castro, to precipitate a war with Cuba. "Casualty lists in U.S. newspapers cause a helpful wave of indignation." And the Joint Chiefs signed off on this. Thank God for Kennedy's wisdom.

Northwoods suggests to me that 9/11 wasn't conducted with disregard for American lives. They're an integral part of the cold calculation.

[izzie]

40. I never understood the planes not taking the liner out

I was married to a service man and it was always that they could have the fighters up in say 2 min. Where were they? If they were on Cape Cop they could have been over NYC in less than 10 min. I understand they were not even sent up, but for the ones around Bush's plane. My God they go 500 MPH and as the crow flys it is no time from the Cape to NYC.

[DoYouEverWonder]

33. But there is a chain of command

and a sequence of events that must occur in order to trigger a response.

My point is that when the key people in the chain, mainly W and Rummie did their best to pretend nothing was happening, thereby causing the system to fail.

Is there an email or a memo telling NORAD to standdown on 9-11, I doubt it. I think it is more likely, that key people ignored the situation for as long as they could get away with it. If Rummie, W and Cheney went into action as soon as they heard that at least 3 - 4 planes were hijacked, maybe the WTC would still be standing.

[bushisanidiot]

47. Exactly

And dumbass AWOL acted as if he got the news of the WTC from the television.. like he wasn't getting updated info on what was going on. The stupid deer in the headlights look only get's you so far..

[bvar22]

13. There was a standdown!

Big Dog was pursuing OBL. There were at least two subs stationed within cruise missle range of suspected OBL hideouts. There was also continuous RPV surveilance of suspected training camps. These programs were discontinued after bush* was installed.

I'm currently looking for documentation supporting the claims that bush ordered the Intelligence services to lay off the Saudis and the bin Laden family.

[MUAD_DIB]

15. Damn strait!

Did you watch the vid of the Chimp sitting there at the FLA gradeschool, like an idiot for how many minutes!!!, after he was told about the planes hitting buildings and others still on the loose?

They let it happen.

If somebody told you that people, that you were in charge of, had just been flattened by a truck would your response just be to sit there and listen to kids recite their school lessons!!??

They let it happen.

Watch the video folks.

[Bread and Circus]

18. Where do I get the video

??

[Minstrel Boy]

24. this might be it

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/bush-911.htm

[MUAD_DIB]

29. You can try googling it or posting a thread asking

for a link to it here at DU.

It definatly exists. Should be easy to come by.

[notadmblnd]

87. heres the link to the video

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/schoolvideo.html

also here is a link to an entire analysis of 911 information. Just look for the "911 Nav" bar under the lead banner.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/

[Q]

27. This shocking video of Bush* doing nothing while America was attacked...

...has NEVER (to my knowledge) been shown by the 'mainstream' media.

- Strange that we've seen the video of Clinton hugging Monica HUNDREDS OF TIMES...but we've never seen what the US CIC was doing as thousands of people died.

[DoYouEverWonder]

28. I want to know how they got Booker Elementary

to delete all the pictures of W during the reading lesson from their photo gallery of his 9-11 visit that is on their website?

[Q]

31. Get the video from a source other than the school...

...as that version has been edited down to almost nothing. I believe the more complete version is still posted on many websites.

- And we shouldn't forget that there were MANY cameras there that day. That means the mainstream media also has a full copy that they refuse to show to the people.

[DoYouEverWonder]

35. I'm not talking about the video

This is a still photo gallery.

They have deleted the last 3 pages. It is a blatant act of self-censorship and I would love to know who at the school made the decision to delete those pages and why?

http://www.sarasota.k12.fl.us/emma/9.11.01/photogallery.html


As for the video, Booker took that off their site shortly after folks discovered it. I would imagine they were getting killed on the download fees from their internet provider.

[Dissenting_Prole]

45. It was shown in Canada

by Barrie Zwicker on VisionTV. Transcript here:

http://www.visiontv.ca/Archive/Archive.html

[hexola]

51. Split screen Twin Towers and Shrub?

Has anyone ever produced/seen a split screen version of the morning of 9-11? I'd like to see Bush at the elementary school on one side and the Twin Towers on the other...and a little clock ticking off the seconds...

[Uzybone]

sorry for double post n/t

n/t

[Uzybone]

75. actually it has

I believe it was shown on CNN or MSNBC either that day or the next. I remember watching it on TV. While I was pretty frantic calling people trying to make sure everyone I knew was safe, The Monkey was sitting there looking thoroughly unconcerned. How can your nation be under attack and at the same time you sit there and read to schoolchildren? That told me there and then that either he knew or he was so incompetent that he didnt care.

[NeonLX]

36. Prior knowledge

Didn't Smirky slip up & say that he'd seen footage of the first plane smacking into the WTC BEFORE entering that classroom? How could he have done that, since the networks hadn't yet shown the video (which was taken by some bystander if I remember correctly)?

I'm definitely in the LIHOP camp...

[Uzybone]

76. Yes he did

check this link

http://www.guardian.co.uk/bush/story/0,7369,612355,00.html

[Dissenting_Prole]

44. Especially suspicious...

on a day when Bush is making a publicized appearance in a school that is 5 miles from an airport on a morning when planes are being flown into buildings.

[soleft]

7. yes

[Jivenwail]

9. Yes.

I told my Mother, that very afternoon, LIHOP. I firmly believe it and have never wavered from it.

[Booberdawg]

10. For sure I think

911 would not have happened had the bush crime family not been in office

[papau]

12. incompetent - at that scale - is harder to believe than LIHOP - -

but still an option

the real question is why the media - faced with the above two choices - writes in "hero" and "truth teller" and "war time leader" and "straight shooter" when providing "context" to articles on Bush.

[Born_a_Democrat]

14. YES and NO

I hate Bush a lot but I can't bring myself to believe that he knew about the events of 9-11 and did nothing to stop them. You would have to be completely in-human to do that. I think he's just stupid not an alien.

I do think that there was enough evidence to support SOME form of attach on US soil which would accomplish their plans just the same (if not big enough they could always fan the flames with lies as they did with IRAQ) but I think the enormity of the actual attacks took them by surprise.

However, as is evident with much of the documentation out there now, BUSH DID KNOW that SOMETHING was going to happen and so did ASScroft (since several months before 9-11 he stopped using commercial aviation to get around and instead used a privately chartered jet ).



9-11-01: American Reichstag

[Q]

21. 9-11 was the 'perfect storm' for the Bushies...

...all their power flows from that one event.

- The Patriot Act was passed without much debate or even reading of the document. Suddenly...the Bushies had the 'time of war' excuse to hide their trail from public scrutiny by classifying incriminating documents for reasons of 'national security'.

- The 'war on terrorism' has become one BIG wag the dog to distract us while the Bushies rob our treasury and the world of their resources.

[Q]

25. There's a bit of contradiction in your post...

...but I understand what you mean about thinking the unthinkable.

- But for too long we've pondered these many unanswered questions and continue to hope that one day they'll be answered by a rational government.

[rman]

26. some humans are like that

They don't care about humans, other then their own.
Surely you know there are people (real humans) who do horrible things. maybe you think those could not ever end up in positions of power?

It takes much less time and effort to screw things up, then it does to do the right thing. Thus it takes only a few to make a mess for everyone. but they need to be in positions of power to do so. They want to do so very badly; they are very motivated. Surely you know about money = power, corruption etc.

The above is not intended not prove lihop, just to show that it is possible for a human to do such an 'in-human' thing (not just Bush single handedly of course..).

Then there's all the advance warnings that got ignored, investigators called off. etc, etc. http://www.cooperativeresearch.org

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

16. Forgive me, I'm new here.

What does "LIHOP" stand for?

[Malikshah]

19. vs. MIHOP

Let It Happen On Purpose (LIHOP)
vs. Made It Happen On Purpose (MIHOP)

[C_eh_N_eh_D_eh]

23. Ah.

Merci.

[Nlighten1]

17. Bush claimed "executive priviledge" over the August 6th briefing

so it could/would not be released.

Hell yes they knew.

[hexola]

52. Vacation and the days before 9-11

As I recall Bush was on vacation in mid August 2001...seems like I remember the mainstream media reporting that Bush would be cutting his vacation short and be returning to Washington (I forget what reason...anyone?).

It had to be something pretty important...

But then...Why was he quickly put on Elementary School tour...? Did he cut his vacation short to read books at elementary schools? I doubt it...

If anyone can direct me to pre-911 chronology...much appreciated.

[Minstrel Boy]

20. not only did they know

but they protected the hijackers to make sure it happened.

As 9/11 widow Mindy Kleinberg testified to the 9/11 commission:

"With regard to the 9/11 attacks, it has been said that the intelligence agencies have to be right 100% of the time and the terrorists only have to get lucky once. This explanation for the devastating attacks of September 11th, simple on its face, is wrong in its value. Because the 9/11 terrorists were not just lucky once: they were lucky over and over again."
http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing1/witness_kleinberg.htm

[booksenkatz]

22. Absolutely yes

The moment I turned on CNN that morning, I yelled out, "George Bush, this is all your f*cking fault!" It was just my gut feeling, and as more details have come out, they've proven my gut feeling to be correct. After all the intelligence they were flooded with in the months leading up to 9-11, they would've all had to have been blind, deaf and mentally retarded not to grasp what was going to happen and, AT THE VERY LEAST, informed the airlines to take extra security measures. The two most damning pieces of evidence are the obvious stand-down of the F-16's that morning, and the fact that Junior continued to read in a classroom for about 20 minutes after we knew for a fact that the United States was under attack.

And everything that has happened since just proves that they allowed it to happen so that they could cash in. Hell, Rummy wanted to move into Iraq that very same day! The Patriot Act was already drawn up, for cryin out loud.

Then when you add to it the fact that this administration is doing everything in its power to cover up the 9-11 investigation... what more proof do people need?

This administration has failed us (at least) TWICE: they failed (either intentionally or not) to protect us against 9-11 when it was so obvious it was going to happen, and they failed (either intentionally or not) with the intelligence pertaining to Iraq. If the Dems don't use these security failures during the campaign in 2004, then we don't deserve to win.

[cprise]

32. It was LIHOP

.

[dragonquest8]

34. Yes

if they can illegally invade a sovereign nation without any justification, only bogus one....

[seemslikeadream]

37. Without a doubt

LIHOP

[PunkinPi]

39. LIHOP - definitely

Here are some insightful links for others not convinced:

Complete timeline of 9/11/01
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/dayof911.html

Oddities and occuring on 9/11/01
http://www.falloutshelternews.com/9_11_ODDITIES.html

Unanswered questions regarding 9/11/01
http://www.unansweredquestions.org/top_11.html

TV coverage of the events on 9/11/01 as unfolded by the media from around the world.
http://televisionarchive.alexa.com:4444/prog

[Q]

41. We're not alone...

...many of the people I talk to 'on the street' also believe that the Bushies allowed 9-11 to happen for their own political benefit.

- It doesn't help that investigative journalism is dead in America....at least when it comes to investigating a Bushie.

[NeonLX]

64. Remember John O'Neill

http://www.rememberjohn.com

The FBI investigator who was told to back off investigating the Saudis...then quit in disgust...accepted a position as security chief for the World Trade Center...then died two weeks later in the 9/11 disaster.

[liberalmuse]

42. LIHOP...

I remember reading in the months before 9-11 about the Bush administration telling the FBI to ease off bin Laden and Al Qaeda. I think they even pulled back a law about terrorist money laundering.

Under Clinton, I remember an FAA guy telling us the big news about the Hart/Rudman report in a board meeting at my work. I was stunned for days after hearing about this (it hadn't been released yet). Government agencies were well aware of the threat outlined in the H/R report and they should have been prepared--especially the FAA. The Bushies WANTED this to happen. They NEEDED it to happen. I even believe they even knew that the main target was going to be the WTC. Nevermind the 3,000 deaths. It was for the greater good. Despicable, but that's how corrupt, craven men in power think. They think nothing of wiping thousands, or as in the case of Viet Nam, millions of civilians, or sending our soldiers to die for oil. The ARE aliens, reptiles.

[Kahuna]

43. I have felt that they let it happen from the very beginning..

The burden of proof is on them to prove that they didn't. They don't seem to want to prove they did not let it happen. Until they do, they're guilty in my eyes.

[shirlden]

46. I resisted believing for a long time

but the more I read and studied, the more I knew it was a Lihop.
Not the first time, of course, our gov has sacrificed citizens for political purposes. This has happened in many admins. But this may be the first time that it was allowed to happen for greed rather than for a pure political/power purpose. Guess that is why it is so odious for me. This admin, IMO, will go down in the history books of the world as one of the most evil ever because their only purpose for being is to "corporatize the world".

[hexola]

49. Did they get more than they bargined for?

I always wonder if they were suckered somehow...were they anticipating a smaller attack? Was the 9-11 disater much more than they bargined for?

[skypilot]

54. Air traffic controllers

I've asked this question in other threads and I never seem to get an answer--or any response at all. Does anyone know whether the air traffic controllers that worked on 9/11 and realized a hijacking was taking place were ever interviewed or if they gave testimony to the independent commission or anyone else? I ask this because from Sept.12 until now I've always wondered exactly what the ATCs did between 8:20 (when they say they knew a hijacking was taking place) and 8:48 when Flight 11 crashed. I have read some testimony given to the independent commission by different military and Air Force officials and they ALL get very vague and evasive when questioned about how long after 8:20 they were notified about a potential hijacking. The standard answer seems to be, "I'll get back to you with that information." What's really suspicious here is that the commission has skipped right over the air traffic controllers whom one would think would be able to answer the question of what time they notified NORAD. One Air Force official claims that their records indicate that the FAA notified NORAD sometime after 8:40 but he is careful not to say that this is the ACTUAL time that the FAA notified them--simply that this is the time NORAD eventually logged in. There is no way that these air traffic controllers sat around for twenty minutes watching a blip on their radar screen move closer and closer to New York. If they realized at 8:20 that a hijacking was occuring then I'm sure they notified NORAD within minutes if not seconds. And if this is not the case then you'd think that the ATCs would be the FIRST ones hauled up before the independent commission. After all, they would have been the FIRST ones--aside from the passengers on the planes--to realize that there was a problem. Why are they being omitted from the investigatory process?

[cmf]

66. I keep thinking about this..

Where are the air traffic controllers? I think they hold the key to bringing it all down.

[Minstrel Boy]

56. I think they got exactly what they expected

I believe so because Flight 77 - supposedly piloted by a guy who's skills were so poor he couldn't rent a bloody Cesnna just weeks before - performed dogfight manuevers over Washington (an air traffic controller said tracking it, they assumed it must have been a fighter jet), turning 270 degrees to hit the one side of the Pentagon that was virtually empty. The Navy wing was under reconstruction, and was the only side with an exterior wall hardened against attack.

And why was the WTC struck first thing in the morning? Why not wait until an hour later? As awful as the attacks were, a delay of an hour would have likely meant thousands more deaths.

[Robb]

50. Modified LIHOP

I believe I've made this argument before, so bear with me if I've already bored you on this.

I think that an overarching philosophy in this administration was more critical to "letting" 9/11 happen than any specific orders or policies.

In customer service speak, it's called "scripting" -- although that's a bit of a misnomer. "Scripting" in this context means teaching employees general concepts about service (like the ubiquitous "exceed the customer's expectations"), rather than specific behaviors ("always use the customer's name").

In this context, it's a much easier way to control the group. Give broad directives, and expect the individuals in the group to sort of come up with their own ways to carry out the spirit of the thing.

Just as sinister, IMO. And far more difficult to pin accountability to.

[soothsayer]

53. Me too. Bush and PNAC and I think prolly Israel was very involved

I wonder if the truth will ever, ever come out?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

67. kick

[skypilot]

55. kick

:kick:

[Individualist]

57. YES

As you pointed out in post 21, all their power flows from that one event.

[TahitiNut]

58. It seems obvious.

It was more than reckless disregard. At a minimum, it was deliberate disregard for an imminent threat. From John O'Neill to Hart-Rudman, the incoming Busholinis were altogether too focused on plunder and pillage -- not only of the public treasury (under the general themes of corporate welfare, tax relief for the wealthy, and corporatization of both public sector services and public resources) but their global corporatist agenda (deployment of their "bully and carry a big stick" foreign policy) -- to be bothered with a threat the calculus of which was foreseeable to benefit them politically.

Under the general heading of "What did they know and when did they know it?" -- we only need look at the extensive "information" regarding the 9/11 attacks that was publicly presented within 48 hours of the atrocities. Over 90% of the "information" the public currently accepts regarding the attacks was made public within 48 hours. This is almost unprecedented. Consider the Olympic Park bombings. Richard Jewell was the fall guy for nearly 6 months -- until Eric Rudolf became the FBI's man of the hour. Consider the Anthrax Letters. We still have no ascertainable progress. Consider the Unibomber. It took years. IMHO, it is beyond reason to believe the "information" regarding 9/11 wasn't already assembled before 9/11. Either that "information" was largely correct and known or it is largely a preconceived "conspiracy theory" designed to immediately redirect public ire at the madministration to the 'evil-doers' -- preempting conscientious scrutiny of responsibility.

LIHOP? Yup. No other viewpoint adequately explains the behavior of this cabal both before and afterwards.

[Trek234]

59. No LIHOP or MIHOP

IF it's LIHOP - I don't see any reason why they couldn't go the extra step and MIHOP.

I don't think either though because they failed to benefit as much as they could have. Granted they obtained a variety of fascist powers, but they could have gained A LOT more.

Remember - why would you LIHOP or MIHOP? To gain something.

Of course there is the possibility they wanted to play it safe, and not push their luck with a single event. In which case we should expect another 9/11 or worse to finish what was started.

[gandalf]

71. And they really got something

So what more should they have got?
2 Wars...
Laws resembling reminding of a police state...

[Trek234]

60. No LIHOP or MIHOP

IF it's LIHOP - I don't see any reason why they couldn't go the extra step and MIHOP.

I don't think either though because they failed to benefit as much as they could have. Granted they obtained a variety of fascist powers, but they could have gained A LOT more.

Remember - why would you LIHOP or MIHOP? To gain something.

Of course there is the possibility they wanted to play it safe, and not push their luck with a single event. In which case we should expect another 9/11 or worse to finish what was started.

[Trek234]

61. No LIHOP or MIHOP

IF it's LIHOP - I don't see any reason why they couldn't go the extra step and MIHOP.

I don't believe either though because they failed to benefit as much as they could have. Granted they obtained a variety of fascist powers, but they could have gained A LOT more.

Remember - why would you LIHOP or MIHOP? To gain something.

Of course there is the possibility they wanted to play it safe, and not push their luck with a single event. In which case we should expect another 9/11 or worse to finish what was started.

[Trek234]

62. No LIHOP or MIHOP

IF it's LIHOP - I don't see any reason why they couldn't go the extra step and MIHOP.

I don't believe either though because they failed to benefit as much as they could have. Granted they obtained a variety of fascist powers, but they could have gained A LOT more.

Remember - why would you LIHOP or MIHOP? To gain something.

Of course there is the possibility they wanted to play it safe, and not push their luck with a single event. In which case we should expect another 9/11 or worse to finish what was started.

[Trek234]

63. No LIHOP or MIHOP

IF it's LIHOP - I don't see any reason why they couldn't go the extra step and MIHOP.

I don't believe either though because they failed to benefit as much as they could have. Granted they obtained a variety of fascist powers, but they could have gained A LOT more.

Remember - why would you LIHOP or MIHOP? To gain something.

Of course there is the possibility they wanted to play it safe, and not push their luck with a single event. In which case we should expect another 9/11 or worse to finish what was started.

[Q]

70. "they failed to benefit"

- You're entitled to your opinion...but the facts say you're wrong. They had everything to gain and nothing to lose. What did they gain?

- The implementation of their PNAC plan. Never ending war. The ability to hide their crimes and classified incriminating documents under the guise of national security. 9-11 also put them in a position to rob the treasury blind...give tax cuts to their rich friends...and give no-bid billion dollar defense contracts to other Friends of Bush. And lets not forget many Americans considered Bush* illegitimate before 9-11 and his poll ratings were in the shitter.

- They have benefited in many ways...unlike America or The People.

[Individualist]

81. More benefits to the regime

Passage of the Patriot Act. Issuing phony terror alerts to distract public attention from negative info about the regime as well as using fear as a tool to control people - a tactic previously used by fascist regimes.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

65. no...i believe it was made to happen

marvin bush on board of Securacom...the security firm that had the contract on WTC, United Airlines and Dulles Airport on 9/11
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0204-06.htm

[jus_the_facts]

68. They planned it and I firmly believe now they paid for it too.......

...I've thought so since the goddamn day it HAPPENED and everything I''ve learned since makes me a fuckin' prophet! :evilfrown:

[Skittles]

69. I believe they knew something was gonna happen

and salivated at the thought of the power it would give them.

[crimson333]

72. no

But I only base my opinion on my fathers. He spent most of career helping to put together the folder the President gets every day on security risk. He said the get 1000's of threats and it is impossible to investigate all of them, and that it is always obvious in hindsight.

[DoYouEverWonder]

89. Google Project Bojinka

The Bu$h WH had to know about Project Bojinka.

Because of the discovery of the plans for Project Bojinka, the US government was able to convict three of the terrorists who did the 1st WTC bombing.

This wasn't just 1000's of assorted threats and bits of info. They had the whole damn plan on a silver platter and they chose to ignore it.

[Q]

92. But these were threats of a very specific nature...

...from a terrorist the US had been trying to hunt down or capture. And don't forget about the numerous warnings from other countries...like Russia. The now classified Aug 6th, 2001 briefing warned of terrorists using planes as weapons against targets in NY and DC. At the very least airports should have been warned to increase security. Negligence at the very least.

- There's no logical reason to give these known liars and cheats the benefit of doubt.

[Uzybone]

73. I believe that...

at best this Admin knew something "big" that would cost lots of lives was going to happen and made sure nothing was done to stop it. That is extremely damning.

[whoYaCallinAlib]

74. If you don't believe in LIHOP, you get taken out back and whipped

like a rented mule. So, a warning to all of you who aren't convinced on LIHOP, better stay off the keyboard.

[Melinda]

78. Why yes, yes, and yes... and for the skeptics:

If the * cabal didn't know something was up with airlines and airplanes, why oh why did John Ashcroft suddenly switch from flying commercially to taking private jets in 7/01?


CBS report -- 7/26/01

"Fishing rod in hand, Attorney General John Ashcroft left on a weekend trip to Missouri Thursday afternoon aboard a chartered government jet, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart.

In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term."

Obviously unrelated, right?
</sarcasm>

And from the good folks at Want To Know, here is another well documented timeline

*editing note to self - get spell checker

[aquart]

77. Yes.

From the moment Bush kept reading.

[Melinda]

79. Why yes, yes, and yes. And for the skeptics:

If the * cabal didn't know something was up with airlines and airplanes, why oh why did John Ashcroft suddenly switch from flying commercially to taking private jets in 7/01?


CBS report -- 7/26/01

"Fishing rod in hand, Attorney General John Ashcroft left on a weekend trip to Missouri Thursday afternoon aboard a chartered government jet, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart.

In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term."

Obviously unrelated, right?
</sarcasm>

And from the good folks at Want To Know, here is another well documented timeline

[Melinda]

80. Why yes, yes, and yes. And for the skeptics:

If the * cabal didn't know something was up with airlines and airplanes, why oh why did John Ashcroft suddenly switch from flying commercially to taking private jets in 7/01?


CBS report -- 7/26/01

"Fishing rod in hand, Attorney General John Ashcroft left on a weekend trip to Missouri Thursday afternoon aboard a chartered government jet, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart.

In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term."

Obviously unrelated, right?
</sarcasm>

And from the good folks at Want To Know, here is another well documented timeline

[agincourt]

82. It's self-evident

Your party owns both houses in Congress. Your party damn near owns the FBI, the CIA, and the military. Yet still , still the president wants to block congressional investigation into the worst case of mass murder on US soil in history, while using the media to drum up this crook as some type of hero in our hour of need. Meanwhile a war is launched against a judas goat regime which is at most a bit player in the terrorist attack. Murder for political gain , cover up and hubris. It never ends.



"what we couldn't get with monica we got with osama" ditto anon

[joshcryer]

83. Yes.

There's a reason he made jokes about hitting the trifecta.

[tom_paine]

86. Very probably.

The Aug. 2nd memo. The mysteriously absent fighter planes. Emperor Chimpy's reactions themselves and his clumsy lies afterwards (Google Bush and "a terrible pilot").

Yes, very probably. No stretch of the imagination at all.

The Imperial Family has done worse, going all the way back to their stint as a bogata in the Nixon Crime Family.

[qanda]

88. Yes and I also wonder

what is the probability that three buildings (WTC7 also) would come down in the exact same way. Everything about Sept 11 makes no sense.

[demgrrrll]

96. When we win in 2004 it will be important for the person who wins to

completely crush this cabal with whatever information they have on them or are able to get. Air all their dirty laundry and make them as powerless as possible. It will be the only way that a Democrat will be able to govern effectively. Anything else will result in a shadow government that will again try to take down or thwart the person who is in office, as they did with Clinton.

[leftofthedial]

90. Bushco MIHOP

this is the simplest expanation that accounts for the known facts.

[HFishbine]

91. A theory (and a wild hope)

Looking at the events as they transpired (great timeline here: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/main/dayof911.html), it seems to me that, if there were a conspiracy, Bush may have well been left out of it. Tenent, Rice and Cheney apparently were aware of what was going on well before Bush. Rice informs Bush of the first plane striking the WTC, which she allows Bush to chalk up as a "terrible accident." Yet, she apparently knew at that time that three other plans had been hijaked. Maybe the cabal was simply pulling the strings of their puppet-in-chief.

Now, here's my hope. Bush somehow amazingly connects the dots and orders a proper investigation. Finding that much his administration is corrupt and hasn't been truthful with him, he fires Cheney, replaces him with Colin Powell, and resigns.

[Thoth]

93. Dream on!!!

Though I guess it's not impossible...

[Q]

94. It's amazing that some people still seem to believe the official version..

...of what happened before, during and after 9-11. Yet...they can't seem to explain why GWB* and Cheney obstructed any effort to hold a real investigation into the event that gave us perpetual war and the 'Patriot' Act.

- The people shouldn't have to demand an investigation into the wrongful death of 3000 human beings. This is something that should happen automatically in a 'free' country and democracy.

[devilgrrl]

95. Absolutely!!!!!!!

Look what the BFEE has gotten away with as a result!

[Q]

98. I hope that everyone has a chance to read...

...the PNAC document. I'll try to post a link later on.

- It's an amazing read.

[44wax]

99. YES

[mopaul]

100. it WAS established that bush knew

but did nothing to stop it, or even have the decency to warn us.

woo whooooo, i'm #100....i hope

[jagguy]

101. no

.

[jfkennedy]

102. 9/11 is complex

I don't think they Let it happen on purpose (LIHOP) but I do think they should have known that it would most likely probably happen, and thus take steps to defend our great country the United States, from terrorism. For example they could have used strict Airport security tactics like the Indians use in Kashmir, India where some of the Taliban hide out. But Bush and his administration knew that it would be too expensive to defend America so they let it happen.

After all why do we have the CIA and the FBI. They are in theory there to let the leaders of our country know what might happen and thus they should have known what steps to take to prevent 9/11. But Because as always Republican politics runs the CIA and the FBI they were not able to research it.

In fact was there not a FBI agent that Cheney ordered not to investigate the Taliban because the Bush administration wanted to make an oil deal with them, (the taliban). The very same people that the Indians knew to be terrorists, before 9/11.

I'm sure the Taliban seen that as an open door to attack our country where it hurts and to get back for all the back pay the Republican CIA agents have not been giving them over the years.

[Sick of Bullshit]

104. Its complexity is precisely why the Taliban couldn't have planned it

Think about it-- How could a bunch of feudal lords in one of the most underdeveloped countries in the world have possibly planned for all defense mechanisms in the US to simultaneously fall apart at the most critical time? There is no way.

Bush and Card's reactions in the classroom are telling. Card whispered something in Junior's ear about the second attack for two lousy seconds, then stepped back without waiting for a reply. And Junior just sat there like a dumbass, before he regained his composure and picked up a freaking textbook!. This is not the response of people who are shocked.