Bi-Polar Extremism: Old Muslim woman in mall tells young girl to wear veil

[scottxyz]

http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=41558&d=20&m=3&y=2004

“Young sister. You have a beautiful face, and you are certainly very attractive. But your face is uncovered, and that is not the right thing to do. It is not religious and attracts needless attention from strangers, and that is very inappropriate, especially with so many males around.”

She continued, “You must veil your face completely when you are out in public. Your beauty is your property, and not for others to see. Even your hands must be gloved to minimize any unwarranted attention. That is the right thing to do.”

...

(I won't spoil the ending - it's a doozie.)

[rwenos]

1. This was at a Mall in Sherman Oaks

and the aged woman was walking with her Jewish Doctor son.

Hell, I don't know. What are you hinting at.

[scottxyz]

3. Not "hinting at" anything

If you click on the link and read the full story, you'll see the ending is rather brutal.

[DRoseDARs]

2. That was kinda odd, but predictable...

...the girl was 15 years old. What do you expect from a teenage girl being told how to dress by an elderly lady? Minus the spit, of course...that was certainly uncalled for. :thumbsdown:

If she were my daughter, methinks she needs to be grounded for a month...no phone, no TV, just homework and study...and she'd have to write an apology to the old woman to be printed in the local newspaper.

[fujiyama]

8. An apology in the local paper?

Fuck that. I can't blame a kid for getting pissed off. I can't really stand people that try to push their religion down others' throats.

[DRoseDARs]

16. Seeing as the girl in question was already wearing both...

"...an abaya and hijab," it's hardly a matter of shoving religion down her throat. The old woman was only showing concern for her and trying to protect the girl in her own way. This was no different than any other senior citizen freely giving advice, often unwanted, to younger generations regardless of creed. The girl should have just humored the old woman, agree with her, left it at that and continue on her merry way. Hell, she could have gone as far as CAMLY discuss her disagreement with such coverings...

...but spitting in the old woman's face? Unacceptable and inexcusable behaviour in civil society.

[fujiyama]

21. I agree...

that spitting on anyone is rude and absolutely unacceptable. I just think that a simple apology would have sufficed, not a public apology in the local paper.

[DRoseDARs]

26. As I said earlier...

...I was switching between several open windows and apparently got some info confused, like the girl's age (the niece who witnessed the incident was 15, not the girl in question). I had it in my head that this happened at a mall here in the US, that's why I thought it appropriate punishment for a public (perhaps anonymous) apology.

[coda]

11. She was a bit older than that.

" a girl possibly in her late teens or early twenties being followed rapidly by a lady fully covered in her niqab...."

[DRoseDARs]

12. I re-read the article...

...This is what happens when you have several windows open and try to read them all in a short period. ;)

[DRoseDARs]

13. You can't edit this message because the editing period has expired.

:wtf:

[kiahzero]

4. I have a hard time feeling sympathy for the old woman

I look down on proselytizing. Faith, and the expression of faith, is a private decision.

[scottxyz]

5. The young girl must have been pretty fed up

n/t

[kiahzero]

6. Indeed

I can only imagine being a woman in an Islamic country, constantly beaten down with messages that your body must be hidden away, and that you should be ashamed of it. I'd imagine that I'd go off from time to time as well.

[REP]

7. Good For Her

Too bad she still wears the hijab, though.

[MadProphetMargin]

9. One word: OWNED.

[Nlighten1]

25. LOL!

She did get pwnt didn't she?

[PsychoDad]

10. How sad..

The young girl has every right to disagree, but she should have shown respect for the elderly woman and her opinion.

[MadProphetMargin]

15. Piss on that. Why the hell should she have to put up with being

humiliated in public? Berated by a stranger? Fuck that. That woman was WAY out of line, and forfieted her right to respect.

[PsychoDad]

18. Hard to imagine this even happened in an

Arab country...

Respect for the elderly is so ingrained in the culture, unlike in the west where the elderly are disposable.

The girl was not humiliated in public.

This incident is like an onder woman in america politley, and to the side, stating to a young woman that the clothes she is wearing are too reveiling, or inapprpriate for the situation.

You may disagree, but that is no excuse for the type of disrespect that was shown.

Muslims have an obligation to advise fellow muslims on things that cause them concern when it comes to their practice of Islam. I and the younger sister may disagree with the older woman's opinion, but I say that the older woman intended to do the right thing in her eyes, and to approach this young woman was not an attempt to berate or humiliate this young sister, but to correct and instruct her.

In other words, right or wrong, she gave a damn about the young lady.

It would be nice if we cared enough to give a damn sometimes.. right or wrong.

[thebigidea]

14. betcha he made up the spitting part

it does sound better that way. Not much of a story otherwise. Or he made up the whole story ala Tom Friedman.

[PsychoDad]

19. Does sound better than if...

The girl said,
"thank you kind grandmother, I will take what you have said into consideration", and left her with a smile.

The way, IMHO, any Muslim should have done.

[ConcernedCanuk]

17. Well, I'm not quite sure about what to think,

.
.
.

There appears to be more than one issue here.

It appears as though the incident happened in an Arab Country? If so, then covering the face is law in some Arab countries/states, no? IF that is the case then the old lady was not out of line.

However, the spitting in the face is not just rude.

I know that in Ontario, Canada where I live, that spitting is the same as hitting someone, and would legally be classified as an assault. This could result in criminal charges, fines, incarceration and a criminal record.

I am not certain as to what degree, but the young girl

was wrong. . .

[DRoseDARs]

20. My point exactly...

...It really doesn't matter what this girl thought about the old woman nor what she was saying. It is never a good idea to attack the elderly, especially over something she could have just shrugged her shoulders and said "Whatever... :eyes:" and just walk away.

[REP]

22. Age Is No Excuse for Rudeness

The old woman was rude. True, so was the young woman, but she was provoked.

If the old woman is so pious, what was she doing out without a male escort? The more I think about, the more I doubt this story is real.

[ConcernedCanuk]

23. Provoked, into spitting in her face? - you can't

.
.
.

seriously say it's OK for someone to spit in some else's face?

Nah, I can't accept that as "OK".

The old woman was expressing her beliefs, oh wait a minute let me put a scenario to you ..

I have been pestered by Jehovah's Witnesses in the past. I do NOT share their beliefs, nor am I inclined to spend time listening to their theories on what will save my soul.

But even the most aggressive, annoying ones, I would NEVER dream of spitting on them . .

The girl was wrong, and as I mentioned in my previous post, up here in Canada, what she did is a crime, "provoked" or not.

That simple.

[REP]

24. I Don't Think It Really Happened

And if it did, I didn't excuse her spitting - just said she was provoked. She should have spit on the ground instead. Not hygenic, but it gets the point across.

As for the elderly getting a free pass when rude: not from me. Doesn't matter whether they're peddling religion or anything else, they're old enough to know better.

[DRoseDARs]

27. Either respect your elders...

...by nodding your head in agreement (and crossing your fingers behind your back) or understand that they might be so old that they may have forgotten to "know better." There's no reason to speed them to the grave by aggitating them. ;)

[MetaTrope]

28. Excuse me, but where is the background needed to judge this event?

The article offers not the slightest clue regarding who the young woman is or what she was thinking. What family or social or business or romantic issues might she be dealing with? What emotional problems might she have? Why this attempt to analyze an entire social construct through a secondhand story of a random public encounter?

[DRoseDARs]

29. Well, probably because none of us are telepaths...

...so unless you're holding out on us, this "random public encounter" is all we have to go on. And we're not discussing society at large, we're discussing whether or not this girl's chosen reaction to the old woman was appropriate or not.