Good article about recall process in VZ...

[AP]

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1133

It's a response to an article appearing in the Economist, which I didn't read, and it lays out what's been going on.

Apparently the dispute is a lot more technical than it has been represenented. Both sides agreed to some rules re signature collections -- the signatures collected had to be done in person at the signature collection stations, but the opposition requested "walk arround" lists for people confined to beds, etc. Unsurprisingly, it's the walk around lists that seem to be loaded with bad signatures, so they're trying to come up with a process to confirm those signatures, which the opposition doesn't like.

Anyway, the article ends with this statement, which is interesting:

The most believable accusation against the CNE is that it is dragging its feet. If true and if it does so long enough, a successful referendum will get rid of Chavez but not the Government. The Vice President will take over. As for the Opposition most observers will admit to some fraud, the question is how much.

That leaves us with a question and an observation. Why would the supporters of a predominantly middle class movement need help writing out their names and, a populist president in a country with 80% poverty is hard to remove democratically.

[ret5hd]

1. i hear a sea wind a'blowin...

come on, don't let us down...we've grown used to our usual gang of paid agitprops.
we'll see how long before they show up.

Good article, AP.

[Tinoire]

2. Uh.. Your hearing is very bad lol

;) The mods made sure there would be no more, ah, "sea wind a'blowin" on the DU seas last night. :bounce:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=135441

It's smooth sailing on this sea for a while :)

May seem a little more boring at first but we'll be increasing speed towards progress!

Hehe. Gore won!

[ret5hd]

3. ha...what was the straw that broke the mod's back?

[Tinoire]

5. I have no idea lol

I just saw all the straws. Have no idea which one did it ;) I know the last thread was finally locked because about 95% of the DUers came out and literally stoned that poster.

The Admin here is good. They will quietly accumulate thousands of alerts on you, warn you and, as your behavior refuses to change after being warned, just ban you out of the blue.

Smooth seas a'coming :toast:


Leftist note: I do not agree with all the banning decisions made but this one? :thumbsup:

[Judi Lynn]

4. Thanks for the article, it was helpful.

Say, doesn't it seem to SMELL a little better around here today?

[bemildred]

6. It isn't really about the recall.

Nobody in their right mind and paying attention thinks Chavez
would lose a fair election.

Chavez is attempting generational change in Venezuela to institute
a democratic and nationalist order, not unlike Castro's project
in Cuba. The recall dispute is about delay, disruption, and disorder.
Anything to slow it down, cause the appearance of disorder, or
discredit the change taking place. If Chavez can be removed fine, but
preventing him from having international prestige or credibility is
even more important. The audience is outside Venezuela and well as
inside.

That is why Hugo has steadfastly refused to use anything but the most
minimal force to deal with the opposition riots. They want disorder,
the government wants before all else to minimize disorder. That is
why Chavez spends time schmoozing with foreign leaders. International
credibility is priceless.

What is interesting recently is that Venezuela is presenting a more
direct challenge. Hugo has called Bush and the US government out
several times lately, calling Shrub a "pendejo", accusing them
directly of destabilization, threatening to sell oil to the Chinese
instead. This means a couple things that I can see. It means Hugo
feels more secure because it's a risky thing to do, it mean he thinks
the US is weaker, it might mean he thinks there is a crisis in
process and he needs to use all leverage he has, he may be encouraging
and enabling other national leaders to do the same. The more guys
like Chavez, Castro, Mugabe, Lula, Kirshner, and so on publically
rejecting the Washington consensus and getting away with it, the
easier and safer it is for the next. This one reason the US is
infuriated about Aristide and Jamaica, and stunned by Zapatero, it's
another crack in the dam. Soon the dam may break.

I think we may expect Venezuela to do all it can to shore up and
support Aristide, not only as a matter of principle, but to annoy,
discredit, and occupy the French and US foreign policy assholes in
Haiti instead of in Venezuela.

[bemildred]

7. A corrollary of this line of thought is that

the most useful thing we can do is to bring home to the
USA the medicine they want to give to Venezuela. Let the
Government of the USA deal with a bit of disobedience, disruption,
discrediting, and disorder. They are not legitimate anyway,
why should we be cowed by them? :-)

[ret5hd]

8. thnx for the insight.