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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 06:44 PM
Original message
"Good Blacks" vs. "Bad Blacks"
One of my greatest sources of amusement is seeing how delightfully clueless the GOP is when it comes to African Americans. The reason for the title of the thread is because that's how the wingnuts see black people.

"Good Blacks" are people like Clarence Thomas, Ward Connerly and Larry Elder. They are "good" because they support the conservative white establishment and agenda. Consequently, these "good blacks" are praised and held up as models for the black community by white conservatives.

On the other hand, the "good blacks" are the object of scorn, derision, and ridicule by the overwhelming majority of black people.

On the other end of the spectrum are "bad blacks". "Bad blacks" are people like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and the NAACP. "Bad blacks" do not toe the white establishment line. "Bad blacks" talk about leveling the playing field. "Bad blacks" talk about things that make white conservatives uncomfortable, like oppression, discrimination and injustice. Not surprisingly, "Bad blacks" are decried and villified by white conservative commentators like Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Reilly.

And yet,strangely enough, these "bad blacks" are generally revered and trusted by the overwhelming majority of black people.

The best part of it all is that the wingnuts think the majority of black people have been deceived and hoodwinked by those tricky "bad blacks." And one day, they're all going to see the light and understand that it's really "good blacks" like Clarence Thomas who care about them.

I guess the only thing that really surprises me is that the GOP manages to get even 10% of the black vote.
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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. They pull that same shit with
women, too, there are "good women" and "bad women", and the same factors you describe are in play for the GOP view of women, also. How the hell any woman or black (or any other minority, for that matter) could even consider voting for the GOP is totally beyond my powers of comprehension.
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Hammie Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow,
And this is different from Dems, or any other group, how?
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. What's the difference you ask?
Dems aren't flaming bigots.
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Hammie Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. No?
Edited on Thu Mar-11-04 07:40 PM by Hammie
Bigot (from Websters)
2. A person who regards his own faith and views in matters of religion as unquestionably right, and any belief or opinion opposed to or differing from them as unreasonable or wicked. In an extended sense, a person who is intolerant of opinions which conflict with his own, as in politics or morals; one obstinately and blindly devoted to his own church, party, belief, or opinion


If by "flaming bigots" you refer to actual human combustion, you're undoubtedly right. If on the other hand by flaming you mean blatant, I would say that you are completely wrong. You can read any thread on this board and see any number of examples of bigotry. In fact your post would seem to qualify.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Hey, wow, a second post in the same thread.
Is that a new record?

Anyway, yes I suppose you can say I'm bigotted towards republicans. Just like I'm bigoted towards KKK members, child molesters, nazis, and terrorists.

But the big difference is that where I judge republicans based on the content of their character, republicans judge other people based on the color of their skin.
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Hammie Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Thanks
Edited on Thu Mar-11-04 08:22 PM by Hammie
Thanks for demonstrating my point yet again.

If you note, from the definition of bigotry that it contains two elements:
1) The belief that one's own party, etc. is the right one
2) The belief that anyone who believes differently is necessarily unreasonable or wicked.

Element one is just human nature. After all why would you believe something if you didn't think it was right?

Element two is what makes someone a bigot. That being said, I would point out that in your post, you claim that because someone believes something different from you, republicanism, they must be wicked and unreasonable, judging others by the color of their skin.

Personally, it is my opinion that the bulk of both parties are composed of people of good will that have different sets of values and notions about how the world works. That doesn't make them evil, it just makes them different.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Actually, I don't think the're wicked and unreasonable...
because they're republican, I think they're republican because they're wicked and unreasonable and judge others by the color of their skin.

Is all this hitting the nail a little to close to the head?
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Hammie Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I suppose we could do this all night
But this is boring.

73

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liberalhistorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Why is it that whenever someone
is being called on a point and is losing an argument, they always then say things are getting "boring" and they don't want to continue?

He's absolutely right about repukes and their treatment of blacks and any other minority for that matter, as well as women. Trust me on that one, I've been a woman for 39 years and I should know. They're as bad toward women as they are toward blacks and minorities.

The "benevolently patronizing" republican man is the worst when it comes to women, I run like there's no tomorrow whenever I run into one of them.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. and they so do it in ignorance
that white male you talk. i get different reaction from males, not a quiet soul. adn the male you talk are around me and have consistantly reacted a specific way to me. the women endorse it too, adn help to create, they like their role, their place. you and me, nah. wouldnt do for anything. so these are all playing at the same time. these males, i can absolutely feel that energy immediately. it is a shock to them, that i dont intimidate. and that their charm, so cler to me in giggle and sillyness. they see i see and boy the reaction i get from that is really interesting adn ok. they get to be. i do too.

what i really enjoy, is the male that sees this and say cool, i like you. they are fun. they are not intimidated or in fear like the others.

i have a husband, no desire to have control or power over me. he is doing his life and he trusts i will do mine just fine without his direction

i say all this, cause they are not a non being. and we cant do anything with them. all we can do is what we do with self.

i listen as the thread of ashcroft goes to die dog, die..........and the silliness, and then for it to make publication. i have sat in this site for a while, and see the merging into media and thought and people listening, and press like that...i listen to bev's name on news shows and thinking maybe kerry could put someone on to monitor where his people are in the thinking. a real grassroot thing.

do i care, nah, it is yours to express however. i respect that and there are reasons, you get to do as, and i trust you to do.

but to tell me, all republicans are evil.........sounding like bush and the religious right i live with. that clues me in not in harmony.

i guess the difference i am not in battle. i see we are being listened too, adn cuomo man he was good, i think talk like that, piece of cake. i dont need to yell, point a finger be afraid. i am not in battle with repug, bush, with the left with you. totally appreciate the participation on this board.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. spell check and capitalization are your friends
try them sometime.
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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. capitalization, huh?
lolol....ok. some of us (you too, perhaps?) type in lower case for expediency. however, i do think a spellcheck is in order.
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. LMAO--good point, but I'm not talking about one sentence replies
I'm talking about a series of paragraphs and sentences that do not begin with capital letters--they are just extremely difficult to read. Should you review my lengthier posts, I daresay you will find that I always do capitalize on those occasions.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #30
34. i tried the spell check
and couldnt figure it out. so i let go of that too. i clicked on spell check and it didnt do anything
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
33. no thank you
i like my way., my words are more important to me. i am not all obsessive about rules other dictate to me. and doesnt hurt me a bit, not bothersome to me. certainly understand if you are bothered and chose to not read my words, all yours to do. this is mine to do, wink

respectfully
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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. Why post if you don't want others to read your words?
I think people just skip posts that are too difficult to read. But it's your choice, natch.

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Ms. Clio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. that's where you're so very confused
There are very few Republicans who are people of good will. If they were, they wouldn't be Republicans.

Enjoy your stay here with all the DU "bigots."
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I can think of a good nazi.
Oskar Schindler was a member of the nazi party, and was a pretty good human being.

I can't think of any good republicans.
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Speed8098 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Let's go with this
You can read any thread on this board and see any number of examples of bigotry.

Since you're fairly new here, I'll help you out.

The proper way to prove your point would be to post a link to a specific thread that you thik is bigoted.

To simply make a statement like the one above in italics will only draw criticism.

I question your motives when you make statements that seem to be degrading to the members here at the DEMOCRATIC UNDERGROUND

I've been here for a long time and yes, I have seen bigotry from time to time, but the moderators do a good job and the offenders find themselves tombstoned rather quickly.




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Hammie Donating Member (413 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Um
If you read my post again, you will find that I actually claim that the post just previous to mine qualified as an example.

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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
24. It Would Seem To Qualify To You, ONLY!
You provided no concrete evidence, merely your opinion. If Doc Weird says he's not bigoted, but rather, turned off by Repubs due to the actions of a large proportion of them, and the lack of action by the remainder to prevent this hijacking, then, he's not.

Just because you say he is, doesn't make it so. Your engaging in an incredibly simpleminded form of debate. You make a statement, which is irrefutable, simply because you refuse to let it be refuted.

Pretty convenient.
The Professor
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I agree with Speed8090
As a minority person, I am sensitive to this type of thing. I could count on one hand the number of times I've read anything insensitive on here. This excludes, of course, some of the GREAT humor, which often has a serious edge to it. But I think that this is a very good and open place to discuss many topics without having to worry about people taking too much offense.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
leftistagitator Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Well since I have never met someone
who thought that they were wrong, I guess that means everyone who ever existed is a "bigot". But why do you come to our forum and call Democrats nasty names, there are other places you could go to do that. They'd be happier to have you too.
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forgethell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Some of them aren't,
others are just smoldering bigots. Then there are the anti-Christian and anti-religion bits, who are pretty much flaming
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Dems don't lay a wreath at MLK's tomb
then appoint a segregationist to the federal bench on the same day.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
32. Or how about the year
that Bush "joked" with his widow about hanging King in the White House when putting up his portrait. But I'm sure that was just an accident. :eyes:
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Redleg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
36. While it's true that many groups engage in the derogation of competing
groups, I believe Democrats tend to try to be more fair toward Republicans than vice versa. Dems tend to recognize that the other side has it's own interests and we appreciate those interests although we may not agree with them. Dems may also criticize the Repubs for some of those interests and for the ways Repubs go about meeting those interests. But Dems rarely, when compared with Repubs, threaten to stifle or kill their opposition. When's the last time you heard a Dem say we should hunt or exterminate Repubs? On the other hand, a number of well-known right-wingers (and presumably Republicans) have endorsed murdering Dems and liberals. So, we may all derogate the other side but not all of us want to neutralize the other side.
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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
10. Police Secretly Watching Hip-Hop Celebs
Edited on Thu Mar-11-04 08:20 PM by G_j
Police Secretly Watching Hip-Hop Celebs

oops link inactive, Ill look for another..

here:
www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1166743,00.html?79%3A+International+news+-+guardian

Hotels staked out and lyrics scrutinised in battle to stop rap's violence

Gary Younge in New York
Thursday March 11, 2004
The Guardian


In the money, and under surveillance: 50 Cent

The Miami and Miami Beach police have a black ring-binder six inches thick that starts with 50 Cent and ends with Ja Rule. In between come photographs, arrest records and other information on all the other major rappers in the US, from P Diddy to DMX. The police photograph them arriving at Miami airport, stake out hotels and video shoots and scrutinise their lyrics and connections in search of hints of potential violent conflict.
It is the latest development in a nationwide effort to place every aspect of hip-hop culture under state surveillance.

Miami officials say the binder was given to them by the New York police department during a three-day "hip-hop training session" in May that was also attended by officers from Atlanta and Los Angeles.

"Everyone that went got a binder with information on rappers that have been arrested, outlining charges," says Miami police sergeant Rafael Tapanes.

"They were trained what to look for in the lyrics, what to look for when they go to hip-hop concerts, what radio stations and TV stations to monitor to keep abreast of any rift between these rappers."
..more..

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G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
12. Black=Terrorist=Thug?
Edited on Thu Mar-11-04 08:21 PM by G_j
they don't always ask if you're good or bad...

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0339/bain.php

BLACK = TERRORIST = THUG: THE NEW RACIAL PROFILE?
Bryonn Bain recounts getting pulled over, thrown in jail, and diagnosed by his lawyer as bipolar. Then the assistant D.A. recognized him as a Harvard Law classmate. A true tale of mistaken identity.
- - - -

Saturday night, November 23, 2002, I was pulled over on the Bruckner Expressway because of a broken taillight. The police officer who ran my license claimed I had multiple warrants out for my arrest, and I was thrown in jail to begin a weekend I will not soon forget.

During the next three days, I was interrogated about "terrorist activity"whether I was involved with a terrorist group or knew anyone else who waswithout an attorney present. My Legal Aid lawyer claimed she was also a medical professional and diagnosed me as mentally ill when I told her I teach poetry at New York University. After my bail was posted, I was held behind bars another night because central booking ran out of the receipts required for my release. On my third day in jail, accused of two misdemeanors and a felony I knew nothing about, I was finally found innocent, and allowed to go home.

These events are not in themselves that extraordinary. Black men and women in this country have for centuries experienced far worse episodes with law enforcement. This incident is striking because it occurred at a time when I have been working to expose the injustice and inhumanity of the prison crisis in America, and because it was not the first time I was unjustly jailed.

Six months after I was racially profiled in 1999, The Village Voice published a story I wrote entitled "Walking While Black," recounting the wrongful arrest I experienced with my brother and cousin outside the now defunct Latin Quarter nightclub in Manhattan. The story was read by several hundred thousand people and received a response unprecedented in the paper's history. The 400 pages of mail sent to me in the following weeks indicated how widespread the epidemic of police misconduct is across the nation.

-more-



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CatWoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
13. Sorta like Oz
Are you a good witch, or a bad witch??



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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. "I'm from Kansas..."
Don't make me channel the "Evil Honkey", now...
:7
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-11-04 10:33 PM
Response to Original message
22. moving into texas
this was one of my greatest spiritual awakenings. from calif, i sat and watched the bigotry and i would get so mad at all the judgement. then i started thinking, that in my anger at these people and looking at them in disdain, i was being a bigot to them equally. i put my kids in a baptist school in the mist of the people i had such issue with and instead of shunning these people i embraced them. adn when i started seeing their flaws in grace and embracing adn still able to love them, ah a wonderful thing happened for me. i became free. there was no difference for them, they still lived in their fears but i was free. i was able to accept my flaws and imperfection adn love me, and equally do for those around me.

i hear what hammie is saying. thank you for you effort.

i also have a husband, father and two brothers who are republicans. they are not evil, stupid, selfish, well my middle brother is........but that is more who he is than being republican, and i love him even with that.

thanks hammie
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corporatewhore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 10:47 AM
Response to Original message
26. "rich blacks" vs. "poor blacks"
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
27. Depends on your point of view
People here do the exact same thing in reverse. Here, Condaleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Ward Connerly and others are seen as "bad blacks." All because people don't agree with them. They get called names like "uncle Tom" and worse. I see no difference.
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noiretextatique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. i agree with you...sort of
Edited on Fri Mar-12-04 01:22 PM by noiretblu
the names jesse jackson, al sharpton, cynthia mckinney and other "bad blacks" elicit the same types of responses from some here as they do in conservative circles. and rice, powell, et all get the same treatment as does bush...sort of. some people were much kinder to powell initially because he was perceived to be a "good guy"...i even remember all the talk of him being a democratic nominee for president. and i don't think other conservatives get the kind of kid gloves treatment that some black conservatives do because of their race.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-12-04 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
35. A cynical variation of this
is when the Republicans put up a Phyllis Schlafly type or a J.C. Watts type or a Linda Chavez type up for public office against a white Democratic male. After all the Democrats vote for (surprise!) the Democrat, the Republicans sneer and say, "I thought you were FOR women/blacks/Latinos, you hypocrites."

This has happened so often in my lifetime that I suspect it must be in some Republican playbook.
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