TWO Constitutional Amendments in 24 hours from bush* regime

[diamond14]

Amendment #1. At the Governors' reTHUGlican meeting in Washington DC, arnold schwarznegger DEMANDED that the U.S. Constitution be amended so that foreigners can be President after living in America for 20 years...
Arnold, who has refused to give up his Austrian Citizenship (the birthplace of adolf hitler), has been in America for 20 years....at the same time, those of us who are BORN IN AMERICA, must live here at least 35 years to be President (at the current time, you must be BORN IN AMERICA and be at least 35 years old to be USA President)...it's apparent that arnold wants to lower the bar so HE can be pResident soon...before even living here 35 years and without giving up his Austrian citizenship and pledging ONLY to America...

Amendment #2. The bush* bigotry....in order to treat some citizens different than others, bush* DEMANDS that the U.S. Constitution be amended to make marriage between gays, lesbians, trans-gendered and trans-sexual people ILLEGAL....this would simply treat a special group DIFFERENT from other Americans, it is a bold move toward legalizing BIGOTRY....it will prevent a small group of Americans from going to any County Court house, filling out a form, paying a fee, and having a short ceremony conducted by a tax-payer funded Judge....this amendment has nothing to do with any religious ceremonies that anyone may or may not wish to participate in, since Church marriage ceremonies are not valid in the eyes of the state, unless the minister files a the same form, that you can fill out in the County offices...bush* wants to TAKE AWAY STATES RIGHTS...bush* wants to FEDERALIZE a state funtion and decision in the name of religious-insanity and bigotry...and bush* wants to LEGALIZE BIGOTRY in OUR Constitution, in order to treat some citizens differently than others....


Does anyone doubt that if bush* gets re-Selected, with the current reTHUGlican majority in BOTH House and Senate...that the ENTIRE Constitution will be gutted by not only radical Amendments, but also fundamentally altered by the religiously-insane-radical-fundamentalists current squatting in OUR Government????

[mot78]

1. Ahhnold is probably a backup in case Jebbies doesn't run

And the anti-gay amendment is to appease the Bible Belt so Roy Moore doesn't run.

[TheRedMan]

2. Point of fact

A person who is a US citizen by birth has to live in the US 14 years, according to the constitution. So the 20 year requirement for naturalized citizens is not as bad as you make it out it to be. And truthfully, I tend to agree that requiring a person to be a US citizen by birth is a tad arbitrary, even if the Repug motivation is weak.

[Cleita]

4. The framers of the Constitution made that rule so there would

be no more King Georges. I guess they couldn't have imagined what happened. I certainly don't want another Nazi in the White House.

[diamond14]

13. arnollld is only 50 % American...he adamantly refuses to give up

his Austrian citizenship and loyalty....refused to be loyal ONLY to the USA...claiming that his Austrian citizenship means toooo much to him....

so fine, but don't let this nazi become USA pResident...arnollld no doubt fondly remembers his 'homeland' Austria, because his Father was a nazi and his whole family benefitted financially from that....BTW, the term 'homeland' is very very nazi....a real important concept right out of the nazi guide to pre-emptive wars and KILLING....

[HornBuckler]

18. Screw Arnold

But Give Him A Break... Nazi? Jesus! That's A Bit MUCH

[TheRedMan]

20. Take it easy on the "arnold is a nazi" stuff

Yeah his dad was a Nazi, but there were few alternatives then. Even so, that does not impugn Arnold any more than my grandfather being a criminal impugns me.

Also, "Homeland" is a pretty generic term. "Fatherland" is very Germanic.

It is certainly not unreasonable to expect him to renounce any other citizenships, though.

[Cleita]

22. He took an oath to rennounce his former citizenship when he

became a US citizen. All naturalized citizens have to, as well as Americans born overseas, like myself. I too could have dual citizenship because the country I was born in said I was too young to take the oath and so they don't recognize my American citizenship, but I travel on an American passport, I don't vote or run for office in that country.

In my mind I took the oath and I am only loyal to the USA. Why can't he be faithful to his oath? He is an American because it's convenient for him no other reason. There are also questions about how he entered America and they point to illegal entry. Of course if he were Mexican, he would have been deported back in the seventies when there was a big crackdown on illegal immigration. Funny though back then only the Mexicans got rounded up not the European illegals.

[Cleita]

24. Here is the oath all new citizens must take.

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty, of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform non-combatant service in the armed forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

[diamond14]

28. "Yeah his dad was a Nazi, but there were few alternatives then."?!

that is a perfect example of why people maintaining austrian citizenship should NOT be allowed to be USA President, and we don't want CRIMINALS in OUR country...it's that residual attitude that you express here so well....

welll....we don't buy that crap here in America...obviously, it carries through in austrian families generationally as YOU express here....we don't want it....we are NOT buying what you try to sell...

[diamond14]

9. You must be 35 years old to be USA President...that means BORN

in the USA and LIVING as an American Citizen until you are 35 years old...I didn't know about the 'live in USA for 14 years" requirement...but that would just take away the penalty for the first 18 year, where legally, your decisions are made by your parents until age 18, and you may end up in Austria because of your parents decisions for a minor child......14 more years until you are 35 and can be USA President...total USA Citizenship requirement for those born in USA:

35 YEARS....

total requirement for dual citizenship, born in Austria, arnollld....only 20 years????

[TheRedMan]

12. US Constitution: Article 2 Section 1 Paragraph 5

"No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States. "

There is the fourteen years requirement, which has not been altered by any amendment. The US citizen by birth also creates an interesting loophole. For instance, my sister was born overseas, but since our parents were US Citizens, she is also a US citizen by birth (being born to US citizens). So she also qualifies.

Further, if my parents had stayed overseas until she was 18, she would still be eligible, as you point out. Essentially the consitution presently requires two things: a birthright and a 14-year commitment. Arnold would ditch the birthright and give a 20-year option. regardless, he would still have a minimum 35-year hook to reach the required minimum age.

(edit: added last paragraph to better respond to above message)

[diamond14]

17. thanks....but it still has the 35 years requirement....as noted...

just like your sister....the first 18 years, after being BORN as an American Citizen (notice my change from 'born IN America)...still must be resident in America from the time you are FREE to make a decision...21 years old...until you become 35 years old....

so IMO, it's a born American, and 35 years American Citizen AND your whole life from when you are free to choose where to live (18 years until 35 years) LIVING in America....

as opposed to arnollld....born in Austria and maintaining citizenship Austrian Citizenship still....Austria, a foreign country and, mortal enemy of America, a mere 60 years ago...AND only 20 years American citizen....THAT STINKS !!!!

that the bush* agenda....lower the bar....

edited to respond to your edit....your sister is STILL an American for 35 years prior to becoming USA President....arnollld would ditch both the BORN an America requirement, and the additional requirement to BE AN AMERICAN FOR 35 years....which is what your sister would be...born an American and remaining an American for 35 years, AND living in America the whole time that, under the law, she was FREE TO CHOOSE where to live....

now arnolld has been FREE TO CHOOSE where to live for many years...and he did not first choose America...only chose America for 20 years, and still swears allegiance to Austria, a lethal enemy of America during WWII....and yet arnollld want to lower the bar....I will contend, that if not born American...the bar should be even HIGHER than the currently required 35 years for American Citizens to be USA President...for example, if you WANT to allow foreigners such a priviledge (and don't know how many Americans would want that)...the BAR should be HIGHER...like 40 or 50 years....this would allow foreign-born people, who were brought to America by their parents to become USA President when they get to be maybe 58 years old...this would be the same age as bush*....

[TheRedMan]

19. Now that i understand, I don't buy your argument.

Mainly because I view where a person was born as pure dumb luck. And it is not as if I had any say in whom I was born TO. Fact is, all I did to be born was resist being pushed until six weeks after my due date. So I have difficulty viewing that as any sort of requirement on me.

Therefore, of the things a person has an active decision in, we are still talking a 14-year commitment. And I don't think that 6 years is an unfair discount for falling out of a person's loins in the correct location.

[diamond14]

23. arnold did not choose American when he turned 18 years old...

he chose AUSTRIA...a mortal enemy to the USA during WWII....many Americans DIED in WWII fighting Austrians....you won't convince many Americans to lower the constitutional requirements for arnolld....

and lastly...I agree that it is sheer luck to which country you are born....all countries, however, give privledges to their OWN citizens not afforded to those born OUTSIDE their countries...it is presumed that if you are lucky enough to be born American citizen, it means that your parents are American, and there is a better chance that your loyalties will be to America as you grow up....

arnollld was raised by an admitted nazi, one who voluntarily served in the nazi death squads that mowed down innocent civilians for fun...and worse, arnolld did NOT choose American citizenship when he turned 18 years old...he remained and still remains an Austrian citizen....arnollld's only decided to become an American when it served his financial interests, not because of any loyalty to America, which would have exhibited itself at the time he turned 18 years old....for foreigners, change it to MUST BE AN AMERICAN FROM THE TIME OF CHOICE...18 years old...not hold dual citizenship from the time of accepting America as your country....and ADDITIONALLY live in America from the age of 18 and not become President until 45 years old...

[TheRedMan]

25. So my grandmother is evil also? What about my Dad? Me?

Grandmother born in Vienna, married an american serviceman to get out of the postwar hell, had my dad, ditched her hubby, remarried, has lived here since. Where does the evil stop amen? After all, Hitler lived in VIENNA in his 20s when he tried to get into art school. Not only the same country but the same CITY!

While I'm on a roll, let's not forget my maternal grandmother, a Cherokee Indian, a group with whom we were also mortal enemies and engaged in open warfare with, and were forced to virtually exterminate to continue our way of life. Many American DIED fighting Cherokee and and other Indians. How evil was she? I still have Indian feet (she tells me). Combine that with my Austrian blood, hell, I am pratically Adolf Crazy Horse, one step from the Devil Himself.

Point being: it is worthless to hold past sins of party A against party B. Just as today's Austrians (at least of the Gropinator's age) had nothing to do with it's participation in WWII as a state of Nazi Germany, I had nothing to do with any my Confederate ancestors fighting for the South in the Civil War (which I contend is no crime, but that is a whole new thread), or any credit for my ancestors fighting for the Union for that matter. Arguments like :"arnollld was raised by an admitted nazi, one who voluntarily served in the nazi death squads that mowed down innocent civilians for fun" are at best scurrilous. I don't care if his dad also liked to kick little old ladies and curse at puppies. That does not taint his son unless his son does the same.

Okay, shifting back to sanity...

We will have to agree-to-disagree on whether the 20-year residency for naturalized citizens represents a lowered requirement that the 14-years-and-birth.

Why do countries grant citizens privileges? Citizens pay taxes. That's why private colleges charge the same rates in and out of state, but public universities charge different in-state rates. It is a fundamental fact that citizens contribute more to a country than non-citizens, just by virtue of their financial burdens.

I do not dispute that a dual citizen should be ineligible. But require that RIGHT at age 18 you must turn american is foolish. Not everyone can GET here when they are 18, or necessarily know that they want ot by then. If you want to make 20 years from day of naturalization, I think that is fair. (obviously that blows up the age 35 requirement with room to spare)

There is plenty of room to debate Arnold's motive in getting American citizenship, and such would impact his electability, but it is not for the law to divine your intent in naturalization. That simply requires too much.

[diamond14]

26. how about 20 years AFTER arnollld and other foreign born citizens

GIVE UP allegence to their native-born country...give up their duel citizenship and swear allegence ONLY to the United States of America....20 years after arnollld is a 100 % American, which he still isn't...then he can become U.S. President...it's awful arrogant of arnollld to make demands of American-born people, like CHANGING THE CONSTITUTION, when arnolld maintains his austrian citizenship....especially austria, a country many AMERICANS shed blood in and fought against not so long ago....

nobody called anybody evil....OK, so your grandmother grabbed a FREE MEAL TICKET by using an American Soldier, ....nothing to be bragging about, but perfectly legal....

....sad...and many nazis men married American Women (nurses, teachers, aid workers, Red Cross) too, in order to sneak out of their criminal actions...some are still being thrown out of America and turned back to war courts, real recently....

just imagine if an American citizen went over to Austria and DEMANDED to change the Austrian Constitution and to become the TOP LEADER of AUSTRIA after only 20 years....tell you what...let's do it reciprocally...if Austria allows it first, then USA follows...that's fair...IMO, those Austrians would BOOT OUT any American-born person who made demands over there like arnollld is making over here in America....

[TheRedMan]

31. Boy you really have it in for Austria

but that's okay. As noted earlier, the oath of US citizenship requires renouncing other citizenships, but I would agree that 20 years after swearing SOLE US citizenship is quite reasonable.

As far as demanding reciprocity, Peru already allows this sort of thing. Of course, there are not really mant other "nations of immigrants" like the US, so it is difficult to really parallel the situation.

on personal note, you might want to work on your tendency to psychotically cast everything in the worst possible light. I admit I set you up to hit my grandmother with "free meal ticket" charge, but the fact that she was my grandfather's third wife (though she was under the impression she was his first) calls into question who was using whom.

Anyway, it does little to help your cause when you sound like froth-mouthed lunatic who only recently discovered the new range of motion afforded by not wearing a straight jacket. Lay off of the ad hominem stuff and take it easy on the adjacent history.

[bowens43]

3. IT takes 2/3 of the House, 2/3 of the senate

and 3/4 of the states. Neither amendment is going to happen.

[Bandit]

5. And that my friends is "the rest of the story"

:shrug:

[Dookus]

6. bingo

it's MEANT to be hard to amend the constitution. This is just election-year politicking.

[leetrisck]

7. And the killing goes on in Iraq & Afghanistan

& various other spots around the world. Next it will be Roe v Wade, flag burning & prayer in schools. Hot button social issues to take America's mind off the killing & lying.

[Cleita]

8. The ammendments we need are first

the equal rights ammendment shot down by Repukes before and second an ammendment guaranteeing affordable health care to all Americans and residents of the US as a human right.

[gristy]

10. Neither amendment is going to get anywhere

These are simply dimwitted folks pushing their own particular agendas. Ahnold wants to get himself into the media, and the BFEE wants to shore up their "base".

[nedlogg]

11. If the Constitution can be amended. . .

to allow the foreign born to run for president, than it can also be amended to allow former presidents to run again.

Bubba, we need you!

[mike1963]

14. Actually, that's probably even EASIER, just -repealing- a previous one!

;-)

[leyton]

15. On Amendment #2...

Can someone tell Bush that we live in a country where the opinions of the majority never override the rights of the minority?

[Cronus Protagonist]

16. I think they'll have to put it back together before they can amend it

http://bushspeaks.com/home.asp?did=69

[alfredo]

21. So I guess bush wants to outsource the presidency too.

figures.

[I AM SPARTACUS]

27. that started happening about three years ago...

[alfredo]

29. That was inter-species.

[charlie]

30. Eh

I was watching a news program a month or so after the 1994 Republican rout, and saw that there were no fewer than 15 amendments in play from those yahoos. It's just a grand gesture. Shows your constituency you mean business, you're going for all the marbles. In reality, it means squat. Ratification of any amendment is a looooongshot. They're just showboating -- it's a cheap and effortless sop to their hardcore base.