AWOL accusations are too murky to catch on but refusing an order

[Bandit]

to take a Flight Physical after hundreds of thousands of dollars (1970 dollars) spent on training is easy to verify and impossible to justify. Remember it was a Mandatory Physical and Bush* just blew it off with no reason given. This one is a slam dunk. We have the documentation. Bush* was grounded for refusing to take a mandatory physical.

[displacedtexan]

1. And the commanding officers who let him slide?

Shouldn't they be dealt with, too? (Even the dead ones, IMHO.)

[AngryYoungMan]

2. Not too murky!

They are, actually, catching on. People will make up their minds about this one the way they did about Whitewater; not based on a "gotcha" document but based on a general sense of what Bush did or did not do, which has already emerged. (IMHO)

Notice that they're not even trying to defend Bush's hiding from combat; that's a given. Rove etc. must have said, "We cannot fight the clear truth that he used influence to hide from the war; we've lost that one already. We have to focus on damage control vis-a-vis these records." And even that's not going well.

It's not murky; it's plenty clear.

[Bandit]

5. I hope it is raising some eyebrows but the fact remains that they are

making it very murky at the present. What with several people saying they remember Bush* showed up and some pay records showing he received pay for that period and another story saying National Guard Records are notorious for being lost and misplaced and yadda yadda yadda but we have concrete solid evidence that he was grounded for refusing an order to take a Mandatory Flight Physical. That means that every penny spent in training him was wasted because Bush* Quit Why did he refuse his physical and allow all his training to be for naught? That is the question we need to be asking.

[NWHarkness]

3. The details are not what will make a difference

The important thing about the AWOL issue finally surfacing is that it shatters Bush's facade of honesty and good character.

[sadiesworld]

4. The real kicker will be the cleansing of the records.

[DemoTex]

6. That's what I'm hammering, Bandit!

The missed flight physical is the crux of Lt. Bush’s problems with his guard service. Why would TANG want him back in the unit if he were not qualified to fly? Why would AANG take him, even into a non-flying billet, given that he had, de facto, disobeyed an order to take a flight physical? Submission to the annual flight physical, required of all pilots operating under the auspices and regulations of the air force (as was TANG), was not an option; it was a mandate. In July 1972, by skipping his flight physical, Lt. Bush also failed to comply with new USAF regulations concerning mandatory drug testing. USAF regulations are not bent or broken without serious consequences, for most people. All other issues regarding Lt. George W. Bush’s service record in the Air National Guard derive from the missed flight physical. Expect the self-proclaimed “war president,” Mr. Bush, to get hammered on this in the months to come. Meanwhile, don’t look for any campaign ads on TV with Bush doing his “fighter-pilot-strut” on the flight deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln.

[cheezus]

8. You think there won't be an opposition ad

of flightsuit bush landing and then standing in front of Mission Accomplished

[buycitgo]

9. hey......great post, as usual.....but the DEMS should use the landing

on the carrier themselves......

I said that the other day

it's so obvious

eric blumrich did a great take on this

pulling it up now

edit/////

here it is

http://www.ericblumrich.com/topgun.html

pretty disturbing/sad, as I recall....haven't watched in awhile, and it takes forever to load on my hamster-driven machine

[DemoTex]

12. Absolutely! My mistake on that one.

I can't wait, either!

[emulatorloo]

7. "Why Bush stopped flying remains a mystery" USA Today

USA Today of all places. . . .

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-02-15-bush-record_x.htm

<snip>

Why 1st Lt. Bush stopped flying F-102 fighters remains murky despite the release on Friday of more than 400 pages of records detailing his Guard service from the time he enlisted until he was discharged.

<snip>

After Bush stopped flying fighter jets in April 1972 and did not take an annual physical examination required of all pilots, the Air Force should have required a hearing known as a flying evaluation board to determine his fitness to fly. Because the federal government spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to train each pilot, it typically did not allow them to stop flying without a formal proceeding. Bush's records do not mention a flying evaluation board.

[buycitgo]

10. Flying Evaluation Board!

how appropos!

FEB for Feb!

first time I've heard anything about that.

when is this going to be hammered

hey DEMS!

HEY TERRY!

here's your chance to hit a home run on all those shows

this simple item encapsulates dumbo's dilemma

it crystalizes the shirking, the evasions, the diversions.

they can't elide their way around this.

MAKE them answer this.....keep them on the defensive

[DemoTex]

11. "DNIF"

Pilots who stop flying are given other Guard duties. In Air Force jargon, it's called DNIF, or Duties Not to Include Flying, which is a written order.

We called DNIF, and I kid you not, Drunk Not Interested in Flying. DNIF was a hilarious joke to us. Especially in the 'Nam, where you were expected to buck-up and fly sick (certain ailments excluded, of course).

On edit to clarify: DNIF was usually a result of sick call. A pilot with an ear infection could not fly, but could help the armory officer inventory the arms room. Usually, DNIF was a pass to stay at home and do nothing except recuperate.

[buycitgo]

13. how does this tie in with the ARF detail?

also, somebody on another AWOL thread mentioned IRR, IRI, or something like that, in which guard members could force the issue of getting the kind of duty they wanted......don't remember details

know anything about that?

couldn't find anything on google

[DemoTex]

17. Very important point. Let me post the whole paragraph from USA Today:

Pilots who stop flying are given other Guard duties. In Air Force jargon, it's called DNIF, or Duties Not to Include Flying, which is a written order. There is no indication in Bush's records that his supervisors assigned him another job. Aides say Bush has told them that once he stopped flying, he performed "odds and ends" for commanders whose names he can't recall.

The paragraph should read: Pilots who are required to stop flying for valid reasons ...

DNIF is NOT available to a pilot who just quits flying, on his/her own. If Bu$h failed the flight physical, he would have been DNIF. Bush, however, failed to take his required flight physical. Additionally, mandatory drug test were required of ALL service personnel. Until that drug test was accomplished (clean), no commander could legally use Bush for any duty.

Active duty officers in Bush's situation would probably have been given a couple of weeks to comply with all the outstanding medical requirements before facing UCMJ proceedings. Guard officers probably had a little more time before the book was thrown at them.

[buycitgo]

19. so, logically this leads to the assumption

that something more should be in his record to account for what happened as a result of this failure, right?

what should that have been, and how to get the fricking MEDIA to pursue this avenue

this clearly means that there are more missing records, yes?

and what about his failure to become captain?

and what about the lack of evaluation reports following the fatuously fawning ones the media were only too happy to shout from the rooftops?

and what about his DISCIPLINARY record?

was that released at all?

does one appear if there were never any sanctions at all?

where's HIS?

[buycitgo]

20. just reread your post...good catch on the 'required' bit

you just have to read EVERY word that comes out about, or FROM, these pricks, as if you were Clarence Darrow, don't you?

they LIVE by elision, parsing, obfuscation

they make WJC look like a rank amateur

having the media on their side makes it just that more difficult

can't tell you how much I appreciate your diligence

you should get in touch with Marty Heldt or Capt. Rogers

[central scrutinizer]

14. REMF

My favorite acronym was REMF: short for Rear Echelon Mother Fucker to describe the "soldiers" who avoided the front lines in Vietnam.

[Bandit]

16. I wouldn't use the word avoided

They did not pick their assignments. If a person's job was to be a supply clerk that is what he did. It isn't as if they chose those jobs to avoid combat. No more than a mechanic did.

[Bandit]

15. Whoop there it is.....

:thumbsup:

[DemoTex]

18. Bu$h story is #3 most emailed link for today in USA Today at 3pm EST.

View the most EMAILED links for today from USA TODAY:

1. USATODAY.com - 300 people fall ill on Carnival cruise
2. USATODAY.com - The day in pictures
3. USATODAY.com - Why Bush stopped flying remains a mystery

[moof]

21. What are the possible consequences & statute of limitations?

what charges could be brought & who would bring them ?

Is there any time limit for taking action on his refusing the order ?

[sangha]

22. Bush* reason for missing medical - "there was no reason to take it"

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/14/politics/14BUSH.html?pagewanted=2

"The records show that Mr. Bush was suspended from flying beginning Aug. 1, 1972 because he failed to take the exam. His last flight exam was on May 15, 1971.

Mr. Bartlett said Mr. Bush missed the exam because he felt there was no reason to take it. Mr. Bush, he said, had begun his training in 1968 with the Air National Guard in Texas, where he flew a fighter jet, the F-102. When he moved to Alabama in 1972 to work in the Senate campaign of a friend of his father, Mr. Bush transferred to an Alabama unit of the Guard that did not fly the same plane. Because there was no way Mr. Bush could fly planes in Alabama, Mr. Bartlett said, he did not bother to report for the medical exam. "

Since when do individual service members get to decide which orders are needed and which are not?

[buycitgo]

23. WTF????? where's the fricking MEDIA????????????

that quote is right up there with the Deamscream!

this deserves a thread of its very own

[sangha]

25. My thoughts exactly

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1128437

[ComerPerro]

24. Exactly

And its not just that he did not follow orders.

Its his explanation that appalls me.

He didn't feel the medical exam was necessary.

Fuck him.