Mexican Soccer Fans Chant "Osama!" and boo the U.S. National Anthem

[JailForBush]

The icing on the cake? They beat the U.S. team 4-0.

Go, Mexico!

[Gulf Coast J]

1. Any urine bombs?

Soccer really brings out the best in people...

[JailForBush]

2. As much as I despise American football and baseball, I have to admit

soccer fans can be rougher than hockey players (my favorite team sport, with soccer second). :)

[ShaneGR]

138. As a soccer fan, the Mexicans have been the lowest of the low for years

They really have been a dirty team and dirty nation (Soccer wise) for the last 10 years.

To chant Osama during the National anthem is absolutely disgusting.

[LoneStarLiberal]

141. I Like The Barbed Wire-Topped Security Fences Myself

Mexican soccer fans are still better than Argentinian fans or players or Italian fans or players, but comparing those three groups is like talking about different shades of vomit.

All you have to do is watch a few minutes of nearly half of any Argentine or Mexican league game...notice something you don't see in MLS stadiums, English stadiums, French stadiums, or German stadiums?

Oh yeah...that would be the RINGS OF BARBED WIRE on top of the security fence that surrounds the field.

Where do I get tickets?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

3. If I were in charge...

This, along with footage of all the anti-Bush protests around the world, would be on every DNC campaign advertisement...

"George W. Bush claimed that he was going to be the great uniter. Unfornately he was right. <clips of anti-Bush protests> In four years, George W. Bush has managed to unite the rest of the world against the United States. <more pictures> These images are not those of terrorists. <more pictures> These are from our friends. From England, from Mexico, from Asia to South America. <more pictures> In these times when the need for national security is at its peak, we need our allies now more than ever. <more clips> If these are George Bush's friends... <more pictures> can we really afford 4 more years of his enemies? <black screen with the words: "Are you safer now than you were 4 years ago?" in white letters>"

[Gasolinedream]

6. Absolutely...

I am with you. I am disgusted that he has brought us down so far in the world that they would actually prefer a horrible piece of human filth like Osama over an average American. That just makes me sick. The saddest thing is he does not care. He still thinks everything he does is for good.

The good news is most people I talk to overseas HATE BUSH, NOT AMERICANS!! Unfortunately, humans associate a country's people with their leaders.

[politick]

29. AWESOME!

that's really clever! I can hear the voiceover and the music, too. Actually, can I do the voiceover?

[2004Donkeys]

149. Lets just hand the election to Bush while we're at it

Propping up drunken idiotic soccer fans is not going to get Kerry (or any other nominee) any votes that he doesn't already have.

[DenverDem]

4. They hate us

because we're assholes.

We exploit their labor for their willingness to work for below living wages. We steal their resources. We abuse their citizens when they attempt to get into our coutry to better themselves.

This kind of reaction doesn't surprise those of us who have eyes to see.

The rest of the world hates us because we are greedy, exploitative, wasteful, hubris riddled assholes. We must change or die.

[cryofan]

14. The Exploiters are only a small fraction of Americans

The ones who exploit mexican illegal labor are the big corporations, and the businesses and the business owners. This is only a SMALL fraction of AMericans. Just as only 5% of Americans ever owned slaves, and it was the rich or well-off back then, too, who did the crime and the rest of us are slandered for it.

[DenverDem]

28. What have you done to stop the Exploiters?

If you are living in America, you are enjoying the fruits of exploitation. If you put cheap gas in your car, you are living off the fruits of exploitation.

All Americans are guilty. War crimes commited in our name etc.

[AffirmativeReaction]

17. You can't exploit the willing

If illegal immigrants were being exploited do you think they would continue to cross our border in droves?

[mike1963]

73. It's a Hobson's choice. Exploitation or starvation.

:grr:

[Centre_Left]

153. I guess they prefer not to starve. Nutty folks. (nm)

[John BigBootay]

23. I sense self-loathing in your statement...

I'm sorry, but I do not share your extraordinarily negative opinion of the United States. I love this country, warts and all. Nor do I hate the elected leadership.

The fact is-- most people of the various other nations would probably trade places with you in a heart beat. You should feel lucky not ashamed.

[DenverDem]

24. We use a huge majority of the planet's resources

and feel we have a right to. We waste more resources than most countries use.

Of course other nation's citizens would trade places with us, we have a vastly better lifestyle than anyone, anywhere.

Our problem is that we feel we deserve it. Our hubris will be our destruction.

I love the original democratic concept of the USA. It is a devine concept. What we have now is corporate feudalism. This has been facilitated by our wonderful elected leadership, and allowed to happen by the lazy, greedy, ignorant, bigoted population.

Wake up, America.

BTW, I don't loath myself. I'm a vegan who commutes the two miles to work on foot. I own a car, just don't use it much.

[rasputin1952]

37. I love this country too...

which is why I wore an Army uniform, fly the Flag with pride, and vote Democratic.

One would think, that with all this country has to offer, we would be less exploitive of the rest of the world. We would be using our talents to better the world, as opposed to seeing bush and his loyal minions from hell who are on a road to worldwide destruction. They demand that the world play by their rules, not the rules of the U.S..

This is why I despise them with a passion, and wish the god-speed to the hell they've created for themselves.

O8)

[John BigBootay]

103. I think America is not terribly exploitive--

compared to how we COULD be. I can think of no examples of nations that have achieved such power and greatness and have proceded with such caution and thoughtfulness.

This is not to say we have not erred-- of course we have. But our system of elected reps makes long term exploitation (in the true sense of the word) much more difficult to perpetuate.

Is an Indian peasant better off or worse off for the $2 or $3 a day job sewing shirts, given that the alternative is sifting through a mound of garbage in the hot sun looking for something to sell on the streets of Calcutta?

Think about that seriously. As much as I feel for the plight of the very poor, I must keep the perspective that all developing nations must learn to crawl before they can walk and walk before they run. Were our Irish and Italian immigrants any better off during our industrial revolution?

Certainly, our industrial masters were motivated chiefly by capitalism and greed-- as is true today. That may never change. But we also had a system here that allowed change to occur for the benefit of the workers AND protections in place for the business owners. The rule of law. A bill of rights. A functioning and generally fair court system. Elected representatives. Property rights.

This was an extraordinary combination that made our success inevitable. Take away any of these aspects and the system will not work and the deveoping country will not succeed.

As for the depletion of resources and creation of pollution, I am optimistic that our technology (and our sense of right and wrong) will solve these to a great extent. Already we are seeing massive improvements in industrial and personal pollution standards and I believe that a general sense of environmentalism is firmly entrenched in the American conciousness.

So I say we must proceed forward-- with vigilance for sure-- but our success is a blessing not a curse. And it is also a guiding light for the rest of the developing nations of what is possible.

[DenverDem]

113. Optimism over resource depletion belies a lack of research.

<http://www.peakoil.net/>

<http://www.peakoil.org/>

<http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/>

It's already too late.

Our unsustainable "success" is unquestionably not a blessing, but a curse for the whole world.

Like we did to the Native Americans, we have genocided humanity, and we still don't care.

This is why they hate us.

[John BigBootay]

127. After the world uses up the oil resources--

we will move off to other forms of energy. Wind, solar, tidal, nuclear, fusion, geothermal, hydrogen-- there are several to choose from.

Oil is cheap, relatively abundant for now, and very useful. It is also very polluting and dirty, but that aspect has not deterred ANYONE from abandoning it altogether. It is simply too useful at this point.

There is nothing that will move us away from oil other than the NEED to do so. If it becomes so expensive as to be cheaper to look for alternatives. Or perhaps if it becomes so obvious that burning oil at present rates will irrevocably destroy the environment. This has not been absolutely proven yet.

This is when the change will occur. I estimate fifty years to get off the oil fix.

It will happen, and I hope I live long enough to see it happen because I think that will be a great achievement for humanity.

[Karenina]

128. Typisch, Amerikanishe

OUT-OF-TOUCH post! Thanx for the laugh!!!

[John BigBootay]

129. Really? What's so funny? n/t

[DenverDem]

130. If you check the links posted

you will find that far from 50 years, we have possibly already passed Peak Oil and are now heading into rapidly increasing energy costs.

Alternative energy sources, at best, will only be able to supply a small fraction of what we are using now, and demand is rapidly expanding. If we had started moving to alternative technologies 30-50 years ago we might now have the capacity to support the current population, but the research and development cycle starting now puts even modest alternative energy sourcing several decades away.

The reality is that of the nearly six billion humans on the planet, perhaps 500 million will survive the Energy Crash that will happen within a decade.

I'm assuring you, we need to wake to the truth as it is already too late to prevent a Biblical catastrophe.

Thanks America.

[John BigBootay]

131. What are you predicting? n/t

[DenverDem]

132. I personally am not predicting anything

but there are plenty of scientists that are.

<http://www.peakoil.org/>

<http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/>

<http://www.peakoil.net/>

The gist of it is, that within twenty years America will consist of small pockets of survivors midst cities of empty buildings, rusting autos and rotting corpses.

And it is largely the fault of America's short sighted, greedy, living in denial hubristic excess.

[John BigBootay]

137. Do you believe this? n/t

[DenverDem]

143. I believe it will take immediate and substantive change

to avoid the direst of the predictions, and with out change it will be catastrophic.

This is the most important issue facing the world today. The fact that we are now a global corporatist feudal economy makes change that will benefit The People an improbability. So, I do fear the worst.

This is why I am preparing the property I own in Texas to be self sustaining. We have spring fed water and plenty of farm-able land. We are collecting heirloom seeds. Producing energy will be a big problem. One of the houses on the property, a two story dome is very efficient from heating and cooling and we are building additional pounded earth structures out of recycled tires. Defense is also a concern. We have some firepower but will need more serious weapons.

I'm just planning ahead. At the very least we can retire to a cool place. I think this is significantly more real than the millennium computer scam, however. There is no doubt energy costs will rise and the poor will suffer first. The global economy can only deteriorate after Peak Oil.

The issue is starting to mainstream now:
<http://abcnews.go.com/sections/SciTech/DyeHard/oil_energy_dyehard_040211-1.html>

[Centre_Left]

156. Prepare for the Y2K bug disaster while you're at it.

Oh, wait, it never happened thanks to the ingenuity of computer scientists.

[Centre_Left]

155. Old News

I remember actually studying in my middle school biology classes in the late 80's that all of the oil would run out in twenty years, that we would be all drowning in garbage due to the lack of landfill space, and that pollution would render the air unbreathable. Reading it was rather frightening for a twelve-year-old.

Of course, none of that has happened so I take these kinds of gloomy predictions very skeptically, especially when people start throwing terms around like genocide. I am also skeptical when people starting want to pass laws forcing me to live my life according to their view of the world or what's right or what's "sustainable."

[Bonobo]

45. Ummm, welcome to DU,

Hope you enjoy your stay.

[John BigBootay]

104. Thanks! n/t

[Djinn]

80. sorry not

most people of the various other nations would probably trade places with you in a heart beat.

if you had said most people in developing nations it might be closer to the truth, though that's because people living in abject poverty or under brutal regimes tend to want to go anywhere other than where they are - that doesn't actually translate into them thinking the USA is the best place on earth.

If you asked people in teh first world however you'd find few who want to live in the states, America has a lot to be proud of but there's an awful lot that doesn't appeal to people from other nations, the death penalty, the massive gap between rich and poor, the lack of a public health system, the lack of decent social security services, the power of the christian right and a host of other things.

[John BigBootay]

105. You're probably right...

And I think I intended to say developing nations.

But the numbers of people in first world nations are probably also dwarfed by the numbers in developing nations. Therefore, I would say that MOST people on the planet would trade places with you or I. And not because "Murika is NUMBER ONE!!! YEAHHH!!" or silly notions of pride and patriotism, but simply because America has the simple things that make it a great nation, perhaps the greatest: our Constitution, our rights, freedom, our standard of living, the availability of jobs, social mobility, and (though it is not extravagant) a somewhat decent social safety net.

[Djinn]

106. but the things you've listed

ie standard of living, rights and freedoms are also available in a large number of other countries - and those other countries also have social services

[Solomon]

33. Are you me from the parallel universe?

I never have to say anything because you make the same points I would make.

[DenverDem]

36. You are indeed Solomonic.

Thanks for the support. I get plenty of the other end of the spectrum.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

5. thank you mr bush*...this is just a bit of what's to come for us all every

where we go for whatever reason the world will now spit on us because of mr bush*!!!!....this is the bush legacy!!!! we better get use to it.......sigh

[Brian Sweat]

7. This is disgusting

I can understand your distaste for Bush and the Republicans, but to applaud when people chant Osama and boo our National Anthem just proves what the hate monkeys are saying about us.

[JailForBush]

8. So what?

I mean, who cares what the hate monkeys are saying about us? I'm not terribly worried about what winos and homeless drug addicts think about me, so why should care about what a bunch of religious kooks say about me?

Frankly, I'm not terribly fond of our national anthem. I'm simply sick of being surrounded by anal retentive patriots who can't get through a day without saluting something.

And chanting "Osama!" is a great way to rub it in. They're sending out the message Americans should have been sending out years ago: "We hate George W. Bush more than we do Osama, and we're sick of Republicans and corporations who hide behind our national symbols. If the national anthem has come to represent Exxon, then we want nothing to do with it!"

[AffirmativeReaction]

16. That's an interesting analysis

"And chanting "Osama!" is a great way to rub it in. They're sending out the message Americans should have been sending out years ago: "We hate George W. Bush more than we do Osama, and we're sick of Republicans and corporations who hide behind our national symbols. If the national anthem has come to represent Exxon, then we want nothing to do with it!"

What does a soccer team have to do with republicans and corporations? If you like Osama more than Bush, I suggest you stand by the gigantic hole in NYC where the world trade center once stood and gleefully shout "Osama! Osama!" Put your money where your mouth is!

By the way, I think the star spangled banner is a catchy tune. Have you ever heard "Oh Canada"? That song is boring by comparison.

[Karenina]

35. Oh Canada

is SINGABLE. Most people have a comfortable range of an octave, as in American the Beautiful (a MUCH better tune). SSB is an octave + a perfect 5th, AND the lyrics glorify war.

[Ysabel]

19. hey you!

what's with the winos and homless drug addicts comment? what does that have to do with this at all? but since you brought it up: many homeless are mothers and children and are not on drugs, as if that matters anyway. and since when do addicts (i'll bet we all have several in the family) not matter?

[DenverDem]

10. Who is applauding the Mexican reaction?

We are only stating the obvious, that it is the rational product of our national hubris.

[11 Bravo]

144. The original poster

referred to the Mexican victory as "icing on the cake" to the Osama chant. That certainly bespeaks tacit approval for the Mexican fans' behavior.

[Terwilliger]

15. what's disgusting is that people in the world think its ok to boo the anth

our national anthem

must mean we're doing something WRONG!

[Brian Sweat]

18. You're right.

It is disguesting that our foreign policy has created such ill will toward our nation and it is nothing that we should be happy about.

[Indiana Democrat]

27. No.

It means we've done too much RIGHT.

You know...Freedom, Liberty and Properity and all that stuff they're jelous of.

(I'll never understand those who can't wait to blame America first).

[fleetus]

90. "They're booing us because they are jealous"

Jealous of our Freedom, Liberties.

Now where have I heard that line before?

I'm not sure if the logic makes sense, but since I've heard lots of people saying that, maybe it is true after all.

:dunce:

[Indiana Democrat]

26. Exactly!

Disgusting!

Maybe those cheering over this should just move to Mexico. They'd come running back with their tails between their legs.

[DinahMoeHum]

9. Don't forget the Olympic Games this summer in Athens, Greece.

The Greeks have had a big-ass bone to pick with the US government since the late 1960's when the CIA allegedly helped instigate and install a junta of military colonels. (For a film perspective, rent and watch the movie "Z")

Given the way things are now, don't be surprised to see spectators try to vent their anger upon our athletes any which way they can.

:evilfrown:

[JailForBush]

11. Speaking of Olympic "Games"...

Why is the United States the only nation that refuses to dip its national flag to the host nation? This tradition precedes George W. Bush and is one of the grossest examples of American arrogance.

I long for the day when the host nation gives the U.S. team the middle finger when they walk by.

THESE ASSHOLES DO NOT REPRESENT ME.

[Loonman]

12. Gee, let's give 'em Amnesty and guest worker status right away!

:shrug:

[Intelsucks]

34. You left out Social Security benefits and water stations in the desert.

We wouldn't want them to die of thirst while crossing the border into our country illegally... They might try to sue us.:eyes:

[Astarho]

99. Water stations

And I thought that was just common humanity, since dying of thirst is a particularly horrible way to go. I guess I know better now :eyes:

[Intelsucks]

100. How about "stop breaking our laws" and don't come over the border

ever heard of that one? And then they try to sue us because we didn't provide the necessary tools for entering our country illegally? Riiiiiight. :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

Maybe we should hand out free guns to all bank robbers. :eyes:

[Astarho]

101. bad analogy

And then they try to sue us because we didn't provide the necessary tools for entering our country illegally?

I didn't know water was a "tool"? (And I would think the cost of the water stations would be less then dealing with international lawsuits anyway.)

Maybe we should hand out free guns to all bank robbers.

Last I checked bank robbers don't need guns to live.

[Intelsucks]

119. Bad analogy? Helping people break the law is a good thing?

Your logic must be twisted into a pretzel in order to make any sense.:freak:

[Astarho]

123. So you would let people die of thirst

(dehydration is a very nasty way to go) just for "breaking the law"? Must be nice to be able to condemn people to death so easily.

I thought helping not to die is a good thing, guess I was wrong. :eyes:

[Ottmar]

13. That's quite harmless

Take a look at the headlines of the "Sun" when Germany plays against England next time.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

150. How about going to Glasgow

to a Celtic-Rangers game. That's real sectarian hatred and scary as hell.

[Zero Gravitas]

20. Its good to know

that not only has George W. Bush restored honor and dignity (not to mention honesty) to the White house, but he has also made the rest of the world respect and admire the United States.

:silly:
:eyes:
:puke:

[outinforce]

21. Is This Typical Mexican Hospitality?

Is been a while since I was in Mexico, but I seem to recall the Mexican people as being quite hospitable.

I remember how, a few months ago, I was outraged that some Americans had shown incredible hostility to some French people who had come to the USA for a visit. I remember thinking, "Even though some disagree with the French, you still need to be a good host when people visit".

This story about the Mexicans chanting the name of Osama and booing the USA team simply must have been exaggerated and blown out of proportion. I refuse to believe that the people of Mexico would be that inhospitable.

[2004Donkeys]

148. It's soccer, I wouldn't worry about it

n/t

[youngred]

22. That's apalling

But not unexpected.

Le Monde Runs a headline Sept 12 saying we are all Americans and now even the Mexicans (you know those people Bush was supposed to be so experienced in dealing with because he was governor of Tejas) hate us.

[Indiana Democrat]

25. Why are you cheering for this???

"Go, Mexico"??????

[DenverDem]

38. Can you miss the point any more egregiously?

No one is happy that the rest of the world hates all things American these days.

We just are not blind to the rather obvious reasons that they hate us.

FYI-It's not "our freedom."

[Intelsucks]

39. We didn't get to be America by sitting around worrying about

what other countries think of us. Who cares what Mexico thinks of us? They shit in a bucket, and carry it down a hill. No thanks.

[Indiana Democrat]

40. Blame America FIRST!

Yeah...attitudes like that are just GREAT for our image as Democrats.

[DenverDem]

42. Right wing buzz phrases like that

are why we are in the predicament we are in.

"Don't blame America for anything" is the blind, hubristic attitude that causes us to elect demagogues who lead us into preemptive wars that make the rest of the world hate us, that cause us to refuse to be realistic about our exploitative economic and social practices.

Our image as Democrats should be "Socially Responsible". That will win elections every time.

[Intelsucks]

44. There's also the "blame America for EVERYTHING" crowd.

If we're "exploiting" low wage workers from Mexico, then tell me where they would work for "any" wages at all, if it weren't for the U.S.?

[LeahMira]

154. There's also the "blame everybody else for everything" crew.

There's also the "blame America for EVERYTHING" crowd.

Well, Americans really can't do much about the government in Mexico. I guess we can work some kind of carrot and stick deal that makes it easier and nicer for them to do what we'd hope they would do, but really... the only government, nation, and people that Americans can change would be our own. So, yeah. If low wage workers from Mexico are a problem, we really have only ourselves to blame.


If we're "exploiting" low wage workers from Mexico, then tell me where they would work for "any" wages at all, if it weren't for the U.S.?

Maybe you need to go back a bit more than yesterday. How did so many Mexican families get to be so poor? Mexico is not without resources of its own, so how come so many have to leave there and come here to earn a living?

[Indiana Democrat]

47. I RESENT that!

Being proud of America and all we have accomplished due to our one of a kind constitution is NOT "Right Wing".

You can hate America all you want...I personally think our "Predicament" is pretty good. Regardless of all the propaganda to the contrary.

[DenverDem]

109. Refusing to admit we might have some culpability for

the rest of the world hating us, is the clinical definition of Right Wing.

This can be treated with heavy dosages of drugs and institutionalization.

[tom_paine]

48. Exactly, we should ALL stop carrying water for Bushevik Pravda

by repeating their lying memes for them.

Unless, of course, that is the intention in the first place...

[enki23]

30. how funny

i'd say 'get over it,' but nobody who should, wouild. *some* mexican soccer fans chanted a word which they knew would piss off americans. they could give a fuck less about osama bin laden, they're just drunk, obnoxious sports fans. we have plenty of those we breed right here. i would hope, if i get to travel to another country anytime soon, they wouldn't hold it *too* much against me that so many americans are such obnoxious assholes. i think we've the higher percentage. and obnoxious assholes who are richer than you are the worst of them all.

i just can't get worked up over it, sorry. no anti-mexican fury here. this isn't news, it's a fucking joke. call me if they start beating americans in the streets. that will be bad. that will be news. and we'll probably get there, thanks to the belligerent policies of our fearless leader. and maybe, just maybe, with a bit of help from all our own obnoxious assholes up here.

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[adriennel]

32. I love Mexico

but this is not a good thing. Having lived in both Mexico and Brazil (granted, it was some time ago), I did not experience much anti-American sentiment. It has definately grown in proportion to the current Administration's idiocy. bad, bad, bad in many ways.

[jmags]

41. I can't believe people applaud this

Chanting Osama to the US soccer team isn't only acceptable, it's applaudable. Look, I want Bush out of office so we can right our country as much as anyone, but Osama bin Ladin aint the guy you use to taunt Americans. Absolutely disgusting.

[madrchsod]

43. goes to show you

that there are dumb asses in every country. yelling osama? i guess these slugs didn`t realize that mexicans were killed in the twin towers. i know, that would be to much to ask of these slugs is to think.

[Cat Atomic]

46. WTF are you people applauding?

Seriously. Chanting Osama bin Laden's name to insult the US players?

It's fucking sickening.

[Indiana Democrat]

49. Sickening is just the beginning.

Some would say blantantly Anti-American.

[DrWeird]

50. Or just pouring salt in wounds.

Frankly, since the US used 9-11 to unjustly slaughter thousands of civilians in Iraq, I'd say this is the least we deserve.

[Indiana Democrat]

51. Good God...

...What has happened to the Democrats of old?

Sigh...

[DrWeird]

53. Democrats of old? You mean like Strom Thurmond?

He went to hell.

[Indiana Democrat]

55. Cute.

I've NEVER met a Democrat in the real world who would side with some scumbags chanting "Osama" as a reference to the fact that they're HAPPY about something like 9-11.

And Thurman may be in hell be even a disgusting puke like him wouldn't spew this kind of crap.

[DrWeird]

56. It's got nothing to do with 9-11.

It's only got to do with hating the United States. And Mexicans certainly have a right to do that. Freedom of expression and everything. Plus we just killed a bunch of civilians, just like Osama.

And if you don't think Thurmond said worse stuff like that, then you don't know much about him.

[Indiana Democrat]

69. Yeah, we REALLY deserve Mexico's HATRED!

President Clinton bailed them out to the tune of 20 BILLION dollars to keep them out of a depression, we buy 38 BILLION more dollars worth of goods from them then they do from us each year and illegal Mexican immigrants send about 20 BILLION home to Mexico each year.


Makes a LOT of sense to side with ingrates like that...Good luck with all THAT! Just do me a favor? Don't identify yourself as a Democrat when you do side with them?

[DrWeird]

88. We can hate them, they just can't hate us.

Right? Just look at all the pent up nationalism in this thread. Close the borders. Send back illegal immigrants. As if immigration has anything to do with drunken football fans.

So do me a favor, don't claim to tell people who is or isn't a democrat, and don't get democratic principles confused with fascism. They're mutually exclusive.

[DenverDem]

110. You're not so weird, Dr.

I like you.

[DenverDem]

57. Yes, Democrats of old

that fought for social justice and democracy.

Sigh.

[DrWeird]

59. Meet the new democrats

same as the old democrats?

[Intelsucks]

52. Oh no, Mexico is upset with us... And we really depend on them for...

Nothing.:nopity:

[DrWeird]

54. Mexico and the rest of the world.

With the exception of some Brits, and some certain fundamentalist muslims who are happy that we invaded Iraq.

[Intelsucks]

58. Hey, if they're chanting "Osama"

then fuck them and their shitty country. EOM.

[DrWeird]

61. See, now that kind of attitude...

is why they hate us.

[DenverDem]

62. No shizzle

my nizzle.

Some folks never learn.

[Intelsucks]

67. Didn't you see the post above where I said I don't give a shit what

they think of us? You are implying that I actually care.

[DrWeird]

72. See, now that's why they fly planes into our buildings.

Ignoring problems doesn't mean other people will.

[Intelsucks]

81. Oh, so it was OUR fault! What the hell was I thinking?

:eyes:

[DrWeird]

84. Didn't say that either.

Although it is our fault that we trained and armed Osama bin Laden.

And it is our fault that we just killed a bunch of innocent people. And if one of their grieving family members decides to get us back, well then that will be our fault too.

[Intelsucks]

89. Yep, and he single-handedly fought off the Soviets and ran them out

of Afghanistan, right? Everybody who brings up the ol' "we armed and trained Osama" line, never finishes the sentence. That might work with those who do know any different... But not here.

[DrWeird]

91. actually...

"We armed and trained Osama," is a complete sentence. Yes, the Muhjahadeen crippled the Soviet war machine, but I fail to see how that justifies training Osama in the first place.

[Intelsucks]

93. What??? We're more guilty for training him than he is for attacking

our country???

You're on your own on that one.

[mrgorth]

117. Osama didn't hate us for training him

it was for cutting and running which is the same thing we've done almost everywhere INCLUDING in Iraq to both the Kurds and the Shiites. We tell people we're behind their revolution and then leave them for the slaughter. In the meantime we develop bigger and bigger "family vehicles" that demand more of their natural resource. What the Mexicans in this story did was wrong, it's also "enhanced" by Bush's foreign policy.

[Djinn]

107. also brought the Soviets IN

there is a fair bit of evidence and testimony from ex CIA folk to say the US drew the Societs into Afghanistan specifically to drain their resources.

If a country as close to the US as AFghanistan is to USSR (at the time) during the cold war had had the problems Afghanistan had then the US WOULD have intervened just as teh Soviets did. In fact during the cold war the US intervened more often in sovereign nations than the USSR did and often for dubious reasons ie we don't like who the Nicuraguans chose to lead them. And how many died during the invasion of Panama again?

[DenverDem]

111. In Panama

we fire bombed the slum dwellings that surrounded Noriega's "Palace" so he couldn't escape. There were only an estimate 2,000 or so civilian's collaterally damaged to death that day.

A glorious victory for the heroic Ronnie Raygun.

[Karenina]

75. Errraaaa...

There's been NO INVESTIGATION. We don't even REALLY KNOW if "Osama" was behind it.

[DrWeird]

77. I'm really surprised some of these people remember Osama.

Unless they're thinking Osama Hussein.

[drdigi420]

112. a lot of to do about nothing

drunken morons, nothing more, now lets all try to grow up a bit

[DenverDem]

60. Screw Mexico and the rest of the world

we don't need them, just their natural resources.

When our national greed has caused the Energy Crash the USA will be a bunch of big empty buildings, rusting autos and rotting corpses, because our hubristic blindness never allowed us to realistically create a sustainable culture.


USA, USA!

Wake up, America!

[DrWeird]

63. Yes, fuck the world and their shitty countrys.

America. Number one. Forever.

;-)

[Intelsucks]

65. I guess we really do need to apologize to the world for Capitalism.

:eyes:

[DrWeird]

68. Just don't complain about Capitalism.

When you lose your job to a Mexican or Indian who will do it for a fraction of the salary.

[Indiana Democrat]

74. There it is...The REAL culprit...Capitalism.

It is not our fault that people's of other nations don't grasp the basic concept of a Free Market.

Maybe you would be happy is we suffered as much as those in Mexico? Is that it? It's all about the equal distribution of misery??

[DrWeird]

78. Did I say anything bad about capitalism?

Looks like you're putting words in your mouth.

[Djinn]

87. yeah maybe

you could apologise for Capitalism if that's what you ACTUALLY practiced, drop the corporate welfare, drop the protectionism (that you hold onto while insisting the third world "open" up there trade systems) then we'll see

[Cat Atomic]

64. Oh, bullshit.

Our *soccer team* doesn't deserve this sort of shit from anybody.

If the Soviets were playing a game of hockey here in in the late 80's, would you consider it appropriate to chant "Chernobyl" at the players to taunt them?

Of course not. The Soviet government was corrupt and oppressive, but the people were only people.

There's a difference between the government of a country and the population of a country.

Those people in Mexico who thought this was acceptable can go fuck themselves.

[DrWeird]

66. I see little difference between this...

and the tens of thousands of americans in football stadiums across the country who started chearing when they learned that the bombing had commenced.

Actually, scratch that. I see a big difference. The Mexican fans were just pouring salt in wounds. The American fans were happy people were getting killed.

[Cat Atomic]

70. Yeah, whatever man.

The American jerks were jerks.

The Mexican jerks were enlightened, righteous crusaders for truth.

[DrWeird]

76. Jerks are jerks are jerks.

Just don't think our jerks are better then their jerks. Or those people who should "go fuck themselves" are better than americans who should go fuck themselves.

[Cat Atomic]

79. I'm not the one making allowances for boorish behavior, friend.

You are. You suggested the Mexican soccer fans' behavior was somehow acceptable, or even commendable.

I've got no problem with telling a vicious American to go fuck himself. I don't care what country a jerk is from, he's still a jerk.

[DrWeird]

82. I haven't got a problem with it.

I think it's funny that a bunch of assholes got offended. Not the players. Just people who made Osama into some cartoonish super villian for killing thousands of civilians, and then turning around and supporting a war that killed thousands of civilians. They deserve salt in their wounds.

Now the players, unless they supported the war they probably understand the sentiment and can turn the other cheek. They're soccer players after all. They're used to verbal abuse.

[Indiana Democrat]

83. How do we EVER expect to win again with attitudes like that?

Do you REALLY think the average American agrees with your attitude towards America??

No offense, man...Freedom of expression and all. But damn...I just don't see your opinions selling in America.

[DrWeird]

86. Win what? Soccer matches?

I suggest lots of practice.

The average american? The average american believes in creationism, that George Bush is doing an OK job, and that Iraq had something to due with 9-11.

The average american is wrong, god bless them.

[Locke_]

151. Average Americans?

So where are these average Americans? I don't know anyone who falls into these categories. You did get one thing right though, Iraq did have something to do with 9/11.

[KFC]

71. Like soccer is a sport

A bunch of one-named pony-tailed flop artists playing keep-away for two hours.

I wouldn't watch soccer if they were playing it in my back yard and serving beer.

[Flagg]

133. soccer (football) is the most popular sport in the world

[Jim Sagle]

85. Time to send home all illegals and close our borders.

[Djinn]

92. and then you'll be willing to work for a couple bucks an hour

for 12 - 16 hours straight with no occupational health and safety protections doing back breaking field work???? No doesn't sound fun??? Very few americans would do this, you'd then see the total collapse of various American industries, particularly in fruit/veg farming, loosing a shit load of jobs that'll then flee to Mexico and elsewhere - eventually unskilled americans may very well find themselves going down to Mexican maquiladoras to get work because no company is prepared to pay first world wages anymore

[Jim Sagle]

94. Outlaw companies that do that.

If companies HAVE TO pay decent wages, they will.

[Djinn]

98. problem with that is

they wont HAVE to pay decent wages - they'll shut up shop and move to the third world

[ldoolin]

136. You've just unwittingly identified the problem

no company is prepared to pay first world wages anymore

The question is, why are we letting these corporate slime get away with this?

[LostInTheMaise]

95. Almost...

Anyone cheering osama here in the US should be sent to jail for life. Period.

[Forkboy]

96. Over reaction much?

[Djinn]

97. yes a little bit of facism

does wonders

[NickB79]

114. Ah yes, there's that infamous freedom of speech I read about

Oh wait, no, false alarm. Can I blatantly violate the Constitution too, please?

[ecstatic]

102. This is horrible news for Bush, who spoke of amnesty

for illegal Mexicans. His supporters are already angry at him, this is just icing on the cake.

[otohara]

108. Is There A LINK to This Statement?

I would like to see a link to back this up -

[alarcojon]

124. The only coverage I've found...

is the following, buried in a Feb 12 NY Times story in the sports section, entitled "Inexperience Thwarts U.S. Olympic Soccer Dream". Most of the story is about how badly the team played against Mexico, and how bad their near future looks. You have to get an account to view the link. Here are the last two paragraphs; Chris Wingert is a member of the team.

"Wingert will get another chance to start on Thursday, when the United States faces Honduras in a third place match. He said he enjoyed playing before 60,000 fans, taking exception, however, to the chants of "Osama,Osama!" by Mexico supporters.

"'It's inappropriate'. Wingert said. 'It's a shame it comes to that, especially when so many people from this country are dying to get into our country, literally. We support them, buy a ton of their products, keep their businesses going; We buy, I think, more products from them than the rest of the world combined. It's kind of a shame they're going to do that."

I also saw Oh'Really blowing hot air about it two nights ago.

Let me just reiterate the obvious point that some soccer fans get drunk and are boorish, belligerent, and just plain ignorant. Needless to say, I don't condone such behavior regardless of the nationality of the boor, but neither am I going to try to make an international incident out of such inanity. This article does not mention how many fans chanted "Osama,Osama!" nor does it mention the reaction from the other fans. If someone has a link addressing these issues, I would appreciate it.


http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/12/sports/soccer/12SOCC.html

[KG]

115. heh.

[corporatewhore]

116. puttinonflameretardentunderwear hereisone takeonwhy peoplehateus

i dont think violence solves anything and only attracks more violencei dont think it is all of "our"faults why people hate us but this guy really sums up my feelings(not sayin it was justified) and why we need to seriously reverse our forgein policy

[DenverDem]

122. That is a good summation on why the world hates Amerika

but I don't think we really know who executed the demolition of WTTs or why it was done.

[LoRoy]

125. Have you forgotten?

Did you not see the videotape of Osama and his buddies sitting around talking about how great it was, how they never imagined (or maybe they said they did think)the attacks would do so much damage, praise Allah? Nothing like a confession broadcast around the world to remove doubt about who was responsible.

[bobbyboucher]

134. You mean the "Fat Osama" video clip?

That sure didn't look like him to me. Too bad, having a videotape of your boogey-man bragging and joking and laughing about 9/11 would be great propaganda if people were stupid enough to believe it. Oh wait, they ate it up with a spoon. How was it?

[corporatewhore]

145. it was why other people hate us in general not just why sept 11 happened

[Ganja Ninja]

118. I suppose they're more people that "Hate us for our freedom."

Now lets set the wayback machine for June 2000 as Bill Clinton is touring the world for the last time as president.

Notice how different peoples reaction is to an elected president a scholar and a real world leader. They love him almost universally. Almost as universally as they despise Bush.

[FDRrocks]

120. Screw them....

Seriously, chanting for Usama, a mass murderer. Go, Mexico, indeed. Go get fucked.

[alarcojon]

126. Fuck Mexico, because of soccer hooligans?

Damn!

[Solomon]

121. Sigh. We will never

learn. It's our way of the highway, until everyone gangs up on us and squeezes the life out of america. Think it can't happen don't cha. The story of David and Goliath has to be told over and over and over again and it still won't sink in. Nah, we don't need anybody else, fuck the rest of the world, we don't need the people, but give us your oil, diamonds, gold, magnesium, baxalt, copper, ...

[bobbyboucher]

135. These stories are so good at bringing out the

suspects.

[earthman dave]

139. Amen.

"anti-americanism" - how dare these foreigners diss the Gratest Nashun on Erth?

[bobbyboucher]

140. We're so great,

how dare they?

[earthman dave]

142. Chomsky has a good line on anti-americanism

Go to Italy, and call someone "anti-italian", they'll fall about laughing. :)

[DenverDem]

146. The only true patriots

are those with the courage to point out that the Emperor is unclothed.

[2004Donkeys]

147. Go Mexico? I hope you apologize to the families of the 3000 that died

I realize in soccer people chant crazy things, but don't encourage it.

[JasonDeter]

152. Let usama kill thousands of their population

and see how quickly they cry to us for help. Its a good thing America is such a patient nation otherwise those who offended at the game would be required to stand up and apologize to the families that scum usama killed. I for one would love to see the border to Mexico slammed shut like a heavy iron door (w/the sound effect). If it was up to me and the Mexican government didn't distance itself from the idiocy of the few morons, it would be the straw that broke the camels back and that iron gate called the border would be locked shut and I'd forget where I put the key.