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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:34 AM
Original message
Poll question: Shall we have a different National Anthem?
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 03:37 AM by Sapphocrat
International DUers, please feel free to participate!

There is no question that many Americans believe the current U.S. national anthem is archaic, and inappropriate in its glorification of war. Many Americans also believe our National Anthem is practically sacred, and such a question should never be broached.

Here (because Americans are notorious for not knowing their own anthem) are the words of...

The Star-Spangled Banner

Oh, say can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming?
And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, now conceals, now discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines on the stream:
'Tis the star-spangled banner! O long may it wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wiped out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved homes and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heaven-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust."
And the star-spangled banner forever shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave!


The most common alternatives suggested are "America the Beautiful" and "America":

America the Beautiful

O beautiful for spacious skies,
For amber waves of grain,
For purple mountain majesties
Above the fruited plain!

America! America!
God shed His grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea!
O beautiful for pilgrim feet
Whose stern impassion'd stress
A thoroughfare for freedom beat
Across the wilderness.

America! America!
God mend thine ev'ry flaw,
Confirm thy soul in self-control,
Thy liberty in law.

O beautiful for heroes prov'd
In liberating strife,
Who more than self their country loved,
And mercy more than life.

America! America!
May God thy gold refine
Till all success be nobleness,
And ev'ry gain divine.

O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears.

America! America!
God shed his grace on thee,
And crown thy good with brotherhood
From sea to shining sea.


America

My country,' tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing;
Land where our fathers died,
Land of the pilgrims' pride,
From every mountainside, let freedom ring!

My native country, thee,
Land of the noble free, thy name I love;
I love thy rocks and rills,
Thy woods and templed hills;
My heart with rapture thrills, like that above.

Let music swell the breeze,
And ring from all the trees sweet freedom's song;
Let mortal tongues awake;
Let all that breathe partake;
Let rocks their silence break, the sound prolong.

Our fathers' God, to thee,
Author of liberty, to thee we sing;
Long may our land be bright
With freedom's holy light;
Protect us by thy might, great God, our King.


Now...

Sorry, polls are turned off at Level 3.

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DoctorBombay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. This Land is Your Land by Woody Guthrie
Best choice for a new anthem.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:48 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Oh, that's a nice choice! I like that! n/t
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Paul Hood Donating Member (717 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. You took the letters right out of my keyboard Doctor.
It highlights the physical beauty of the land and the democratic instincts of it's people.
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Muddleoftheroad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. I voted to keep it as it is
But if it HAD to change, that would be my choice as well.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 09:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
36. My first choice
and my favorite patriotic song.

I also love America the beautiful.
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Edge Donating Member (728 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 03:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. So those are the words to the National Anthem...
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 03:50 AM by Edge
huh.
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Rationality Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:01 AM
Response to Original message
5. Leave the Star Spangled Banner alone
Archaic? Hey, like it or not America was born from a colony who became fed up with a distant tyranical monarchy. I consider myself to be more dovish than the average American, but history is history, and the fact that we stood up for ourselves... that's something we should be proud of.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. No question 'we' (they) stood up for an infant nation...
..against tyrants. Does that apply today? Or has the United States changed in over 200 years? Should it change, or should it not? If so, in what direction?

If it does apply, then what tyrant(s) are we standing up to today?
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Rationality Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. It's about our roots
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 04:43 AM by Rationality
America has evolved since the signing of the Delcaration of Independance, but that's missing the point. Changing the national anthem is tantamount to denying our national history and culture, and changing it merely because it emphasized the "bombs bursting in air" seems a bit too PC.

By the way, we are always fighting tyranny, although many of them live inside the US and the worst of them are hiding in an undisclosed bunker.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. I love it!
I was SO hoping you'd mention the "in-house" tyrants! :D

"Undisclosed bunker"... Hehehehehe!
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Rationality Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:55 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. I knew you'd understand ;-)
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #23
34. Welcome to DU!
:toast:
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Blayde Starrfyre Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
6. I like the Star Spangled Banner
Complaining about the verses of the anthem that NO ONE EVER SINGS and barely anyone even knows just seems like you're looking for things to complain about. I like our anthem, I look forward to hearing it over and over again in the Olympics as we show everyone who's boss. :)
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. "as we show everyone who's boss"
And WHO would that boss be? That whimp of an unelected fraud sitting in the oval office who went AWOL?

The one that lead your country, my country and the U.K. into an unjust war, just for oil?

Yeah, some boss!
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:13 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Was I complaining?
I put out a question, argued both sides, and offered the most commonly-suggested alternatives.

How, pray tell, is that complaining?

And, do tell as well, how are we "boss"? By military might? Is that all that counts? Is that the purpose of our national anthem?

I'll be most interested in your detailed reponse.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. * crickets * crickets * crickets *...
Goodness, it got quiet in here all of a sudden.
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Blayde Starrfyre Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:29 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Jesus, it's just sports
We're the "boss" in the Olympics because at the last summer Olympics we won more medals than anyone else, that's what I was talking about when I said "in the Olympics as we show everyone who's boss." Are you just looking for someone to victimize you?
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Are YOU? (n/t)
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Blayde Starrfyre Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Pardon me for enjoying the Olympics
Now we're not allowed to feel pride when our country triumphs in athletic competition?
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 06:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
29. Um! Excuse me, but...
...I happen to take offense to the "as we show everyone who's boss" remark. I don't come from America, but I do have pride in my nations sporting achievements, and I most certainly would never make such a senseless remark like that, especially after my country has made a pre-emptive strike on a soveriegn country.


I also happen to take offense the your victimization remark you made to my girlfriend!

You need to wake up and realize that words you say, may just offend some people!
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. Ah, sports!
All right, I'll accept that you meant sports and not war.

But I'll let you know right here and now I take offense at the "victimization" crack.

And that, darling, is not self-victimization -- that's knowing a bitchslap when I see one.

I asked you a few perfectly legitimate questions based on your response, and you attacked. If you can't respond without leveling baseless accusations, then kindly back the fuck off.
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Blayde Starrfyre Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. Don't be so touchy
I made the victimization comment because I seriously don't get how you could assume that I was talking about "military might" and how it's "all that counts" and is the "purpose of our national anthem" when I was clearly talking about the Olympics, unless you hardly read my post and were interpreting it in the way that allowed you to get pissed off.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. I read it...
...and knowing all too well how we (the U.S.) throw our weight around at every opportunity, "hearing it over and over again in the Olympics as we show everyone who's boss" sounded to me like rubbing every non-American nose in the dirt at an event where there should be a (literal and figurative) level playing field.

I'll take back my umbrage if you take back the "victimization" crack, and we can start from scratch. Deal?
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Blayde Starrfyre Donating Member (428 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. Fine
n/t
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LeahMira Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #12
31. A new anthem and a new attitude...
We're the "boss" in the Olympics because at the last summer Olympics we won more medals than anyone else, that's what I was talking about when I said "in the Olympics as we show everyone who's boss."

I agree. It's our athletes who have achieved in the Olympics, and since they don't get financial support from the government as athletes from other countries do, their accomplishments really are their own. It's generous of them to share their honors with the nation.

As for the anthem, I like America the Beautiful and This Land is Your Land also. I'm not sure about My Country 'Tis of Thee because it's the same tune as God Save the Queen. I really do not like The Star Spangled Banner at all, but I think we are stuck with it, at least until such time as Americans come to understand that it really does not represent who we are. Right now, I guess it really does say who we are and that's too bad. I just hope that by the time things change all around there are spacious skies and fruited plains left to sing about.
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AG78 Donating Member (840 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:28 AM
Response to Original message
11. I have no need...
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 04:29 AM by AG78
for an anthem. And I don't like flags either. I grew up saluting, pledging allegiance to, and singing about flags and anthems. I didn't really mind at the time. Didn't really cross my mind. Didn't even think about what I was doing. They said get up and salute the flag one day in 1st grade, and what else is a 6 year old going to do? But now I just don't do it. I can't bring myself to pledge allegiance to a piece of cloth. No matter what the noble idea behind the flag. Even though, as the flag was being made, things were going on that went against the ideals behind the flag. Then again, it was also happening against the ideal itself at the time, and then you can go into some philosophical question after thinking about that.

But that's just me. If everyone else wants to do it, they're obviously free to do so. To me it's empty symbolism. To me it's a fake way to bring people together. But again, that's just me.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Nah, that's not 'just you'...
A lot of folks grow up, stop, and ask, "Wait -- what am I doing this for?"

I agree with you -- a pledge should be voluntary, from the heart. If you do it only by rote, or you're forced to do it, it's meaningless.

Btw, welcome to DU. :hi:
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
18. This one is appropriate for the country we have become
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:47 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. If only I had a sound card! n/t
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buckeye1 Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. The USA...
got along just fine without this nonsense until 1931. Note who controlled the government then. A truly free country has no need of some jingo song to buttress bad behavior.
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Sapphocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:03 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. What would you like instead, buckeye1?
After all, we've gotta have a song, even if it's "Lydia the Tattooed Lady." :)

I hear you, re 1931...

We'd like to thank you, Herbert Hoover
For really showing us the way
We'd like to thank you, Herbert Hoover
You made us what we are today ...

They offered us Al Smith and Hoover
We paid attention and we chose
Not only did we pay attention
We paid through the nose.

In every pot he said a chicken
But Herbert Hoover, he forgot
Not only don't we have the chicken
We ain't got the pot! ...

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jmags Donating Member (517 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 05:06 AM
Response to Original message
26. For the life of me, I will never understand why our anthem
isn't Shine on you crazy diamond.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
28. Star-Spangled is mangled
The range is impossible for most people to sing, the words are hokey, and it doesn't really speak to the best in us as a nation. It was not even selected as the national anthem until far into the 20th century, I believe. Finally, in one of our nation's darkest hours, on Sept. 11, 2001, citizens everywhere sang anything but that. Senators and Representatives gathered on the steps of the Capitol and sang "God Bless America" through their tears, but not "The Star Spangled Banner."

"America the Beautiful" is easy to sing, easy to memorize (I still remember most of the verses from when I was a grade-schooler), has dignified words and sentiments, and the "God" in it is what historians all along have called our "civic religion" -- kind of vague and overarching, what Jefferson and Washington referred to as "providence" or even "divine providence" -- nothing too specific, so the hearer can easily imagine that this is his or her own god we are singing about.(To my atheist friends: rest easy on this one, okay?)

"This Land is Your Land" by Woody Guthrie is fun and folky. I'd go for that over "The Star Spangled Banner" any day.

I just noticed this is my 500th post.

Hang in there all you DUers. Yours for better days,
Hekate

"Death has a tendency to encourage a depressing view of war." ~Donald Rumsfeld

"But why should we hear about body bags and deaths and how many,
what day it's going to happen, and how many this or what do you
suppose? Oh, I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my
beautiful mind on something like that?" ~Barbara Bush

"I guess the 'nation's grandma' isn't the grandma of those her son sends into harm's way." ~Hekate

ARLINGTON WEST, SANTA BARBARA CALIF.
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Default.htm
click on the large photo of AW to go here:
http://www.veteransforpeace.org/Arlington_west_121003.h...
Scroll down the page for all the photos...

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patricia92243 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
30. Bush would take credit - wait til Dem is in WH!
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Mr.Green93 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 09:02 AM
Response to Original message
32. L'Internationale
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
35. "AtB" is NOT a blindly-trusting patriot's friend if you hear ALL the lyric
"This Land is Your Land" just isn't anthemic, IMHO, although I have always loved the song. AtB really gets to the heart of what once made this country great, and maybe someday, will return to.

You have to go through all the lyrics, but it celebrates the land, the people, the sacrifices, and hardly glorifies war, instead, it honors those who have fallen in the US's defense(verse 3). Big difference. I certainly understand the objections to the references to God, but it really packs a punch, IMHO.

There are actually a couple of more verese to AtB, ones certain to PO a few Freepers:

O beautiful for glory-tale
Of liberating strife
When once and twice,
for man's avail
Men lavished precious life !
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till selfish gain no longer stain
The banner of the free!


O beautiful for patriot dream
That sees beyond the years
Thine alabaster cities gleam
Undimmed by human tears!
America! America!
God shed his grace on thee
Till nobler men keep once again
Thy whiter jubilee!
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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
37. I have always disliked our national anthem..
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 10:25 AM by truth2power
Too difficult to sing....one has to have a range like Streisand. Also, all that stuff about bombs.

I've always thought "America the Beautiful" more reflects what this country should be about. Especially the phrase,"confirm thy soul in self-control; thy liberty in law." (Hey Asscroft, are you listening?)

edit: references to "god" don't bother me in this case. There can be so many interpretations of what one means by god i.e. spirit of life, universal intelligence etc.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #37
38. I LOVE that line!
Just thought my post was long enough already...

Thanks.
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