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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:07 AM
Original message
NYT: Bush AWOL charge appears in debate
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/23/politics/campaign/23D...

January 23, 2004

Democrats Vow to Battle Bush on Social Issues
By ADAM NAGOURNEY and KATHARINE Q. SEELYE

GOFFSTOWN, N.H., Jan. 22 In their final debate before the New Hampshire primary, the Democratic presidential candidates declared on Thursday that they could withstand election-year attacks from President Bush on social values and tax cuts, as they sought to allay concerns among Democrats about the party's hopes of winning back the White House this fall.


-snip-

General Wesley K. Clark repeatedly defended his Democratic credentials, as he explained why he had voted for Richard M. Nixon and Ronald Reagan. And he declined to disavow a remark made by Michael Moore, the filmmaker, who at a rally in which he appeared with General Clark had described the president as a deserter.

"Michael Moore has the right to say whatever he feels about this," General Clark said. "I don't know whether this is supported by the facts or not. I've never looked at it."

Mr. Clark said Mr. Moore was "not the only person who said that," even while admitting that he had not taken the time to check the facts of Mr. Bush's attendance record with the National Guard in Texas.

-snip-

more...
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JailForBush Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
1. He's never looked at it???
Earth to Wesley Clark: It's time to wake up!
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morgan2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. he was just suprised by the question
He was smart not to give an answer, has to make sure he can back up a claim like that.
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Melodybe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. I agree, he was smart to dodge the question if he did not have evidence
on him.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. The correct response...BUT
instead of saying that he had not had time to look at it, he could have said that a lot of the information has "disappeared or been "altered" over time, and then segue into the super secrecy of this administration and the energy meetings and the Reagan/Bush1 papers..

It's called deflection... :) Come on Wesley.. we all know that in private , he's probably known as that asshole taritorous deserter.. :)
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baby_bear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Hey JailForBush
Clark said the right thing. He let Peter Jennings take all the heat for bringing up the awol charges. He didn't take any blame OR credit for what Moore said, nor should he have.

And guess what: the AWOL charge are now in the NYTimes!!


Finally, people will read it, if if it is disparaged in the mainstream media. The seed is planted. The man copped out of his last year of service, such as is was.

s_m
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Loren645 Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. Exactly. Clark is all clean and classy and Moore is helping get
this stuff in the press. It was strategic. If Clark had
said what we all know, he'd have been torn to shreds in
the media. Now the story is again hot, but he's clean. Yeah...
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Room101 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Hey sierra_moon
He has not looked at it? WTF! If he has not looked at it he answered correctly but I just can't stomach knowing he has not looked into it. I have been wishing Clark or Kerry to bring it up, I felt he dropped the ball on this particular play.

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Demonaut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
9. You know he has, but what else could he say?
At least it's brought it into the light
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Piperay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
18. Of course Clark has
Edited on Fri Jan-23-04 05:51 AM by Piperay
looked it up, but it was Jennings who should have looked it up and had the facts straight before asking the question and then claiming that it wasn't a 'fact'.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
20. That the standard answer these guys give
when someone finally asks about this issue. Either they've heard about it and never looked into it or they have no idea what you're talking about.
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. Does that mean we can present evidence
And invite George to do the same?

Come on, George. ONE person who served side by side with you in that questioned time. One, George.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:14 AM
Response to Original message
4. Cat's out of the bag
What we've known for years has made it to the public arena. Whoopee.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. Bush AWOL charge appears in 2nd NYT article
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/23/politics/campaign/23D...

At the Debate, Speculations and Calculations Focus on Dean
By JOHN TIERNEY

Published: January 23, 2004

GOFFSTOWN, N.H., Jan. 22 John Kerry marched to the presidential debate accompanied by a firefighters' band of bagpipers, just the sort of touch you might expect from a candidate riding a surge. But even after his victory in Iowa and his lead in the New Hampshire polls, Mr. Kerry was still not quite the main attraction Thursdaynight, at least not at the start of the Democratic debate.


-snip-

On Thursday night it was Gen. Wesley K. Clark's turn to be uncomfortable when Peter Jennings, the ABC News anchorman who was serving as a moderator of the debate, asked him why he had said nothing when one of his supporters, the author and producer Michael Moore, recently stood next to General Clark and called President Bush a deserter. General Clark, looking like a student who never dreamed that would be on the test, said he did not know the facts of the case but mentioned that Mr. Moore was not the only one to make the charge, an answer that probably gladdened Republican strategists envisioning ways to exploit the issue.

-snip-

more...

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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. They'll exploit this issue at their peril
Please God let them try to exploit this.
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Loren645 Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Yup, they can't exploit it at Clark's expense without doing it at Chimpy's
expense. Really quite delicious.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. And the interesting thing is
as the charge blows up in Chimpy's face, Clark is vindicated... :D
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
13. Any bets that they'll be nary a peep of outrage from the RW
talking heads?

They'll happily let it slide and send another memo to the corporate news media that these kind of questions are not helpful.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 03:48 AM
Response to Original message
16. Here is a pamphlet I prepared on the issue months ago.
http://www.thesyndrome.com/archives/bushfiles1.doc


Get this thing out to the people it's public domain...
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Cat Atomic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 04:24 AM
Response to Original message
17. What a stupid angle.
They're trying to smear the former NATO Supreme Allied Commander by saying that one of his SUPPORTERS has pointed out the truth on Bush's AWOL status?

That's like trying to beat someone's fist with your nose.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
19. Challenging Chimp's "manhood"
In the end, some mass media outlets might actually take this as a reason to investigate again and report again.

Just noting that last week Al Gore also -- directly in this case -- challenged Bush's manhood when at the moveon rally he publically called Bush a "moral coward" in matters of oil, gas, and coal.

Strong stuff. I expect much more in the months to come...
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
21. Locking
Rules to start discussion threads in the General Discussion forum.

...

7. Discussion topics that mention any or all of the Democratic presidential primary candidates are not permitted in the General Discussion forum, and instead must be posted in the General Discussion: 2004 Primary forum.

Thank you for your understanding and cooperation,
DU moderator
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