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What if (gods forbid) we have a repeat of 2000?

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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:50 PM
Original message
What if (gods forbid) we have a repeat of 2000?
What will we do if the election of '04 becomes a muddled mess, and is eventually handed to Bush* again?

If we're honest with ourselves, how many of us will actually *DO* anything? And what, short of rioting in the streets, can be done? Write letters? Phone Congress? Boycott? Protest? March? I think we've more than exhausted any effectiveness any of those methods have, at least with the gang in power at the moment. Especially with the media in the condition it's in.

Today alone, Janklow (more or less) walked, we have a new Watergate on our hands, and the bill depriving our first responders of overtime pay (Way to go, you fraudlent asshat... :grr:) was passed. That's just today, and I'm sure that's not even half of it. And all CNN can do is run Howard Dean's "War Whoop" on an endless fucking loop.

What I want to know is this; What is it going to take? When do we stand together and say "No more!"? And how?

What do we do??
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. rioting in the streets
rioting will only bring down martial law, and it will stay down for a long time. BUT, nonviolent protest, on a large enough scale WILL work. people power brought down marcos. but it will take millions. it will take 1000 times the iraq war demonstrations.
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Not advocating rioting
Nor suggesting it...I'm just saying I can't imagine ANYTHING at this point that will make any impact on these people short of that. Or even that, now that you mention it. I'm sure they'd love the opportunity to put the smackdown on a bunch of uppity liberals. :eyes:
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Malva Zebrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. Buy some land if you can now.
and be the master of your own life as much as possible. Grow your own food, and if you do not know how to do that, then make an effort to learn. Grow children that will respect the simple life. Love your fellow man and your neighbor and help each other survive. Be humble to the point where you are confident and quite happy in this type of life. We do NOT need others to tell us how "successful" we are. Be sincere and love what you do, even if it is paring carrots for the soup. Give em the finger those that would have you be a slave to the superficial, and quite shallow life. Be poor-and be proud to be poor-do not pay taxes, grow your own food and survive by your wits--consider that a challenge and at the same time, discard all that you have held dear as your "identity" That is that your worth is determined by what you have, visually. Remember what is beauty also. Our worth is not what we own . Our worth is what we do with ourwselves on this planet in the short time we are here.

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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Noble ideas, but difficult.
Land takes a lot of work and if your dirt sucks, you end up spending lots of money getting it into shape for planting.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. on a similar note -- massive consumer boycott
I mean a kick-ass serious one, like Gandhi telling his fellow Indians to gather their own salt, instead of buying from the Brits.

Huge chunks of Americans, appalled at what by then will be a fairly complete totalitarian takeover of the country, need to stop buying so much gas, no new cars whatsoever, fewer electronic gimcracks, cease fast-food consumption, etc., etc.

If corporate profit margins start to crash, that may the only way left to profoundly change the system...
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. But again,
Edited on Thu Jan-22-04 08:16 PM by dolo amber
If every one of us are COMPLETELY honest with ourselves, are we willing to do that?
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. if we're not willing to even stop *buying stuff*...
...then we're useless as any kind of alternative/resistance movement. How the hell can we get the SturmGOPpers attention if we're not willing to make even a minimal sacrifice? Risk minimal discomfort?

Wasn't it just ML King's birthday recently?
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Most people
can't even be bothered DISCUSSING what's going on in the world, it might interrupt "Survivor" or "American Idol". Sad to say I don't think the few (relatively speaking) of us who DO care can make much of an impact up against that. :(
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. but, but, but, I thought that buying stuff helps to fight terrorism???
that's what they keep telling us to do!!!

:silly:
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #13
35. Were not even willing to be democrats
Some planks as 2000, same result.
Give me Kucinich.
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DuctapeFatwa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Most of the voting class will do nothing. Some will

write some very strongly worded letters to the editor, taking care not to include any statements that might violate the Patriot Act, as any who post to this thread would be prudent to do.
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
4. Malloy said it best (paraphrasing)
Edited on Thu Jan-22-04 08:01 PM by arcane1
this is our last opportunity to get the fascists out of office using the ballot box

Now I am not a violent man, but I will defend myself. I have a feeling we are going to need some serious defending.... I'm sure you've read about the assorted Repube groups that are crashing Dem meetings, protests, etc? They are going to be cocky and confident, and feeling unstoppable, if they win in '04. Hell, even if they lose, the attacks will still increase...
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Nazi streetfighters?? the Sturm Abteilung
SA
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Jeebo Donating Member (362 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
19. I was listening that night too...
What he said was that this election year is our last chance to toss those warmongers and robber barons out "legally and peacefully." But maybe there was another night when you were listening and he said "at the ballot box" instead of "legally and peacefully."

Ron
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arcane1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. no, I think you have it right
I didn't recall his exact words

thanks!
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. Besides peaceful protest?
Strike the way that will hurt them the most. Buy nothing but food.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Trouble with that is that you not only hurt the
establishment but innocent people too.
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. just posted the same idea above...
...while you were writing yours!
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. It could happen.
I truly believe the normal avenues of dissent aren't working anymore because it is what is expected and it's predictable.

I would never advocate violence. It accomplishes nothing. However, we really do need some creative and attention getting avenues of dissent. It's time to start a new revolution and one that isn't expected by the establishment.

Wow, I can't believe I used that word, the ESTABLISHMENT. It slipped out of my brain from the sixties.
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ProudGerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. Violence accomplishes nothing?
George Washington might beg to differ. If the yoke of totalitarianism finds itself around the neck of society, sometimes the only recourse is to shoot the man cracking the whip......and anyone who helps him.

Seriously, if "gestapo" are roaming the streets, and our civil liberties are shadows of their former selves, our Founding Fathers would roll in their graves if their wasn't violent resistance.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. You missed the point.
Instigating violence will do nothing for anyone's cause. If someone attacks then it's self-defense, a whole different animal. No one is roaming our streets yet and if they do then we should fight back, but defacing property, beating up on people and other violent actions as protest I think would not advance our cause. It was tried in the sixties and it colored any meaningful results. MLK promoted resistance as did Ghandi and maybe we need to move ahead a bit, modernize, but not lose the lesson.
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PaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. The freepers will do anything...
they're a DANGEROUS bunch of gun-carrying goons..and if you've read some of their threads, they'll do anything including setting people up...Guess you haven't seen their so-called "Hillary Project"..check that out..and there's some of their "people" here in DU pretending to be DU'ers and trying to get info from DU members..they're a bunch of sick tickets!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
15. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Excuse me, but unlucky me I happened to be in both those
states when those incidents happened and I think our government did an abominable job of handling both those situations. However, these people were not part of a national movement where there are a lot of people agreeing about the same principles. These people were somewhat on the fringe, so they were doomed to lose as they didn't have a whole lot of solidarity with other like minded people.
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
22. Nationwide Strikes
Doesn't matter whether union or non-union. Deny the corps thier funding. Things will change awful fast.
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. That would be ideal
IF enough people would be willing to sacrifice for the common good. Unfortunately, I don't honestly see that happening, do you?

I hate to keep sounding pessimistic, but I totally, looking at things from a completely realistic standpoint, don't see the vast majority of Americans being willing to give up even the most minor of comforts. And I think the other side knows that. Keep 'em vegged out in front of computers, video games and TV, fat and happy.
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camero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
30. I have to agree
But that's what it's gonna take to turn it around. Sort of like a Lech Walesa type of solidarity protest.

I don't see it happening anytime soon but the groundwork is being laid for it. Many in the transportation industry have been calling for it.

Like the truckers shutting down their rigs in '73 in response to rising gas prices.
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dolo amber Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #30
34. This was a much different country
in the (at least early) 70s...Ordinary people were much more politically conscious than they are now. Again, not trying to sound defeatist, but have you talked to any *regular* people (ie not political junkies like we all are ;)) lately? It's beyond disheartening. They don't know, nor do they give a rosy red rat's ass about what's going on. As long as it doesn't interrupt the lastest episode of "Hey, watch us make asses of ourselves for money!!" on Fox.

The whole point of this thread was just to see if maybe there WAS something I was overlooking. Some method, some viable idea that might actually make a difference. I'm all out of ideas myself. :(
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Edge Donating Member (728 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
23. All we can do is go out and vote in November...
and pray to Buddah, Allah, and/or God that Dubya doesn't get (re?)elected.

If that happens, well, my bus is packed and ready for a move to Canada.
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Kazak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
24. Quit your job...
Take all of your money out of the bank. Stop paying taxes. Stop paying bills.

If a sizable portion of those opposed to Bush did all of these things, what effect would that have?
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aldian159 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-22-04 11:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. We'd all go to jail.
but even those are full, and we could have these DU discusions face to face. cool.
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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
28. a nationwide labor strike will get their attention
If another Florida 2000 happens, we should not let the Democratic leaders give up for the "good" of the country. In hindsight, Gore shouldn't have made a concession apeech. Instead, he should have fought tooth and nail.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. I've also been pondering this one
I keep getting a scary feeling that the BFEE will figure "it worked last time" and totally rig it again.

If I was a US citizen I'd be really pissed off at paying taxes without representation (didn't you guys fight a war over that once before??) but unless you can convince a hell of a lot of people to withhold their tax dollars you'll just end up in debt/jail and Dubya'd still be in the White House.

Maybe, if it does happen again, we can gather a "coalition of the willing" to overthrow your very own home grown dangerous, violent dictators???
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. Maybe it will take
the help of other countries to overthrow the BFEE. Have chimpy and cheney hauled into the Hague for warcrimes.
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Djinn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-23-04 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #32
33. I'd say sign us up
but you'd first have to remove our Prime Minister's head from Bush's bumhole
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