I know there are some intelligent people who are republicans , do they

[Bandit]

honestly think Bush* is a good and smart President? Or are they of the mind that a President can't do much anyway and it is really his cabinet and advisers who need to be smart. Do they believe that Bush* is just a figurehead or do they really believe Bush* is making the decisions? I am stumped. It is so very plain to me the man is not qualified to be dogcatcher let alone the President of the United States but yet so many people some of whom I know to be intelligent still back Bush*. Are they really in denial or do they just not care or do they truly believe in Bush*? I am just flabberghasted by the numbers of people who think America is on the right track and love Bush*. Am I so blinded by politics that I wouldn't give him credit if he was do? :shrug:

[trumad]

1. Yes they do...

and yes they are.... Scary

[tom_paine]

2. Intelligence has little to do with resisting propaganda

Yes, I know intelligent Republicans, even intelligent Busheviks, though for many of them, denial and ignorance of the facst allows them to believe they are following something which they most decidely are not.

Even intelligent people can be fed disinformation or denied information.

There are many non-skeptical intelligent people around.

Denial and buying into what we want to here (even if it's a lie or half-truth) are two of the most powerful human drives. Believe you me, the markting and psychomanipulative specialists in the Imperial Stooge ranks are well aware of it and know how best to utilize these drives.

[asjr]

3. You are not

blinded by politics. You have stated what I have been thinking for 3 years. Are his supporters lemmings? Can they not think for themselves? I don't think we will ever figure it out. I can only hope some of them wake up soon.

[waylon]

4. Yep, I work with several

They seem to be concerned with 75% war on terror, 10% economy, and maybe 15% split between social issues. (They are all upset about immigration) However, all but one is locked into bush, no changing their minds.

They are convinced the war is justified, necessary, and bearing fruit. I think they see only what they want to see.

[Maine-i-acs]

5. They're starting to erode.

I heard a co-worker telling us at lunch that her Repub husband is not going to vote Repub for the firs time ever. And every day I hear more tales like that at this board.

Interestingly the whole lunchroom turned into a trash-Bush-athon yesterday; it was refreshing as I never imagined that nearly everyone I work with hates him.

The Fundies are turning, the Fiscal Conservatives are turning, the CIA is turning ... drip,drip,drip.

Bush is a uniter indeed. Uniting the world against him and his PNAC cronies. The perp-walks alone will make Iran-Contra look like a school dance.

[TXlib]

7. Perp-walks?

Don't kid yourself.

Not one senior member of the * junta will ever do the perp-walk. Anybody who does will be a lackey who was generously compensated for taking a fall, or too slow to cover his ass.

The best justice we can hope for is voting them out of power, for decades to come.

[Maine-i-acs]

62. Time will tell.

Betcha a dollar ;-)

[TXlib]

6. I know many intelligent people who are Republican and pro-*

But they uniformly display a "fuck those who get shit on, I can only worry about myself" attitude.

Republicans today, especially those who really think * is a good president, are either selfish, hateful, or gullible.

[JuniorPlankton]

8. One of our senior officers is a hard core Republican and

his position goes like this:

1. Bush is not smart but he is surrounded by smart people
(partially true, IMO, evil but not stupid)
2. The job (US President) doesn't require you to be smart.
In fact, being smart is detrimental to your performance
because you start trying to understand every detail and achieve nothing (somehow he blurs the line between being smart and not being able to delegate) He cites Carter as an example of a US president who was too smart to do the job.
3. Finally, he believes that it's more important to have "core values"
than any specific knowledge or skills.

I have spent A LOT of time arguing with the guy. The most amazing thing is that he is not religious and is not pro-life and, in other respects a fairly smart and reasonable guy.

[lapislzi]

9. From intelligent Bush voters, I am hearing

"Well, would you rather have CLINTON getting a blow job in the White House?!" to which my answer is always "you bet."

But they don't get it. They can't move beyond that damned blow job. Why?

[marie123]

12. not true

AS I have moved beyond the blow job, and so wish I was hanging around the "cooler" discussing what a jerk Clinton is.

Those wonderful days are gone and I feel things are going to get worse. We have so many problems and I help create them

Did you ever have the feeling you were on a freight train in the rain with no brakes going down a hill?

[Bandit]

15. Welcome to DU and look forward to hearing from you

It sounds like you have had an awakening but am interested to hear about it. Do you still hold some of your old ideas or have you changed your whole belief system? We really are open to discussion here as long as it's not for the purpose of disruption.

[marie123]

18. I was a true Bush believer

I have never felt so afraid and betrayed in my life.

My closest friend here at work is a liberal from way back when. I think if you look up liberalism in the dictionary you would see his picture. You can only imagine the discussions we have had. In fact others have come by just to listen and watch us. :-)


His big question to me has always been WHY. I am not rich, I own no stocks, I am just an average woman trying to raise my children the right way. My answer to him is "religion". If I vote in a liberal they will take away my religious beliefs by banning my cross and other symbols that I so treasure. Christmas will be a thing of the past as will my church. Therefore catering to the rich is something I would rather do.

However, as I watch my job and others go to India, as I watch our health care system erode at quite a fast pace, as watched my home taxes go up to an unfordable rate, as I watch social programs being taken away from my children only to be drafted in a war that has no meaning. ( and yes I was for the Iraqi war) I get sick to my stomach. I get angry and scared. I have no idea how I am going to make ends meet. The idea of taking my cross off to go to work or not putting a nativity scene up in a public display has become tit.
It is starting to have no meaning to me. I am a freeper, been freeping for years. I don't know where my country is anymore.

I am pissed that Dean has screwed up, cause he was the man of change. I don't believe in Kerry and Clark will get destroyed. You don't work for the government for all those years and not have a closet filled of skeletons.

also if it makes any of you feel better, I am disgusted with myself for helping in creating this mess

[Bandit]

26. It makes me feel better not that you are disgusted with yourself but that

you have come to your senses. One thing that needs to be addressed immediately is your belief that Liberals want to eliminate religion. That is so far from the truth as to be funny. The only thing we want is to keep Government and religion seperate. I think if you really believe in what Christ had to say you will find Liberals follow his path far more often than Conservatives do. We really believe in compassion and don't just use it as a campaign slogan. We really want to help the needy and not the wealthy. Most Democrats are very religious but don't want a public display of it just as Christ taught. Christ taught that we shopuld pray in our closet in private and not on the streets like the hypocrites. Read some of what Jesus has to say and then decide if it applies to Republicans (money changers and hypocrites) or Democrats (party of the people not the wealthy). I think if you get past our rage you will find a new home within our party.

[TNOE]

27. Hi Marie

Your post really moved me - you sound EXACTLY like my mother - what she says now. Don't worry - we're all in this together and it is going to be okay. More and more people are opening their eyes and more and more people are beginning to question 9/11 outloud and in public - and as soon as that information hits the light of day - this group is done.

My thoughts are with you - try to stay positive - a mighty change is in the wind.

Welcom to DU :hi:

[Robbien]

28. Marie I do not know what we can do, but feel it is really late in

the game.

This rush to create a small wealthy ruling class with the rest of us being poor and powerless started back in Reagan's day. He walked us quickly toward this caste system. Bush I sped up the pace. Clinton walked in the same direction but somewhat slower. Bush II is speeding us toward the end goal.

Yes, I am scared and cling to the hope that maybe a change in the WH will slow this madness. I have given up hope that the trend will be reversed.

As you can probably tell, I have no political party. But for the last couple of years I have been siding with the Democratic party because if there is any hope at all this is where it will be.

[Enraged_Ape]

31. Marie, that was an amazing post

And welcome to DU! :hug:

You will find a lot of Christians on this board--in fact, people of all religions, and no religion. Because despite what Rush Limbaugh, Pat Robertson, Jesse Helms, and others of their ilk might say, liberalism is NOT for the elimination of religion. It IS for the separation of church and state. Government has no business telling us how (or to whom) to pray or worship. The Republicans have lied to you about this to scare you into voting for them, just like they've lied about everything else to try to scare us all.

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's," said Jesus. At least, he said something like that.

There is a great website you might want to check out. I think you might find it very interesting. Here it is:

http://www.liberalslikechrist.org

[mopinko]

35. hello marie

"I am pissed that Dean has screwed up, cause he was the man of change."

howard dean has not screwed up, he has been put through the "spin cycle" he still has plenty of chances, and even if he doesn't win, we need him in the race. he will let the truth out of the bag. he is not afraid.
i read between the lines that times are tough for you, but believe me even a $5 contribution to the dean campaign WILL make a difference. to him and to you.

[Solomon]

36. Thank you for your post Marie.

Your post is interesting because you hit one of the problems on the head - the religion thing. If you study the history of christianity, you will learned that there has always been an argument over people who believe that belief is more important than what you do, and others who believe that what you do is more important than what you believe.

The dichomoty between republicans and democrats reflect this age old argument. The republicans fool people by professing belief, but what they do, is often the very oppposite of the belief. As long as Bush says he's a born-again christian, he can murder, steal, and lie all he wants.

My family has been so affected by the facade that Bush is a christian that it has confused them and led to strained relationships between us. On the one hand, as christians they were taught to turn the other cheek, they know deep down it's not right to attack someone who hasn't harmed you. On the other hand, Bush says he is a christian. They are swayed by what he says and not by what he does. There is a disconnect though. They are very confused. Then when you add to it the sentiments you raised, such as losing the symbols of religion, recently expressed in such follies as arguing over the ten commandments in the court, and prayer in the schools, then there is a lot of room for confusion.

America is changing, as it must. It cannot take in millions of people with differing religious beliefs and still expect to promulgate only one of those religions. The state has to stay out of it, or the American experiment will fail.

[lapislzi]

16. Marie123, I'm not making this stuff up

This is what I hear, in librul New York. From people who should know better.

Welcome to DU, by the way.

[marie123]

19. thanks for the welcome

I am originally from boston, but moved to CT.

Oh let me change my profile to be correct

hold on

[maggrwaggr]

52. Marie, I'm kind of shocked

that you thought that the Democrats would take your religion away from you.

I'm sorry that the Republicans are such effective liars that you believed this.

We believe in freedom. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, all the basic American freedoms.

It seems to us that the right-wing is trying to shove evengelical fundamental christianity down everybody's throat, and they're trying to subvert the constitutionally-guaranteed separation of religion and government.

I'm a liberal and there's a christmas tree in my house every december.

[Beetwasher]

53. Me too, this is what we're up against though

And Marie, I'm not slamming you. You are very courageous to come around and question your previous assumptions and reflect on your life and realize and admit in a public forum that you were wrong or misguided.

But this whole idea that you actually believed that the Dems would try to take your religion from you is quite frankly really scary.

You would never ever be forbidden or stopped from wearing or displaying a cross or putting up a nativity scene and not a single Democrat would ever support denying you that freedom. What they do support is not allowing the gov't to sponsor or promote any specific religion or religious belief or to use religious belief to craft federal policy or laws. Any good Dem would always say that individuals and any private group, as long as it's not using tax payer funds, can express their religion any way they want. That's actual a CORE Dem value, to have the freedom to express yourself any way you want, as long as you're not infringing on some one elses rights or doing anything harmful.

There's a good reason the constitution draws a line between church and state. How would you feel if the majority of people in the country were Jewish and the president was jewish and started basing all his actions and the all the official actions of the gov't on Jewish laws and customs? You wouldn't like it being non-jewish would you? That's why there's supposed to be separation of church and state. He could say for instance that Jewish law says you can't eat pork and therefore, pork should be made illegal. That would be wrong wouldn't it? Now, let's look at what's happening today. According to some people christianity says Gay marriage is inappropriate and therefore Gay marriage should be illegal. See the similarity between the pork example and the gay marriage example? Both are wrong and the constitution has a separation of church and state expressly for this reason, but NO ONE wants to outlaw religion or your freedom to express your beliefs.

[opihimoimoi]

30. Lapislzi, WHY? Why do Pubs continue about the BJ?? Pure Jealousy

Pubs are basically miserable people, but ya gatta give it to them, they are generous. They want to share their misery and pathetic lives by making us more miserable than them. Damn.

[lapislzi]

49. ah, yes...harkens to the definition of puritanism...

the insupportable notion that someone, somewhere, is having fun.

Apologies to HL Mencken.

[mopinko]

33. jealous

never get blow jobs themselves.

[PVnRT]

42. Maybe not for all

but for some, this is definitely the cause. I know people who voted for Bush simply because "they didn't like Clinton." They have no real specific reason for it, they just didn't like him, so they voted for Bush.

The funny thing is, they agree with me when I talk about things like the state of health care in this country, or how bad Iraq is going. I think a lot of this has to do with how the media, ever since Reagan, has, sometimes overtly and sometimes not, demonized the word "liberal" to the point that people don't want to be known as such, and voting for one is out of the question.

[NJCher]

10. bush is a titular head of state

I have a friend whose husband is a psychiatrist in the south. He is quite a prominent psychiatrist and his clientele is made up of the elite and they almost all happen to be repukes. She tells me they look at the government as a panel of people representing their interests. They acknowledge bush is a lightweight but don't care because people like Cheney are there to take care of their bidness.


Cher

[watercolors]

11. our broker disgusted with*

he was really ripping him and administration apart yesterday! He has done a complete turn around on bush, he is now a bush basher. We almost dumped him because of his right wing attitude last year, but we are friends and have been with him many years, so glad he has seen the light!

[paulk]

13. I know a few Republicans

and mostly they vote for the party, not the candidate. Even the ones who despise Bush - because they feel that Bush's core value system mirrors their own.

[Fleshdancer]

14. The only intelligent Republican I know...

is disgusted with Bush. My husband and I tried to warn him during the 2000 election, but did he listen? Nooo. Does he regret it? Yep.

To his defense however, Bush did run as a "compassionate" conservative isolationist at a time when many Americans thought our deficit years were behind us.

[MisterC2003]

17. Depends what kinda Repub you're dealing with

On some other message boards frequented by members of both parties, I have found that it's a matter of what kinda Repub they are:

1) The social conservatives can see no wrong with Bush. He is their guy. He isn't implementing their agenda as fast as they'd like, but they know it's because all those Hollywood libruls are somehow preventing him from doing it. They think he's smart. He went to college, after all.

2) The libertarian conservatives (small gov, social liberals) absolutely despise Bush. They do not think he is smart, but they do think his advisers are. They hate his economic policies, they don't like the war, though they do approve of his war on terrorism they aren't too crazy about the Homeland SS (Security Stuff). They fall into two camps. One camp acknowledges that Clinton did better in balancing the budget, and are very likely to vote Dem in the next election so a Dem admin can straighten out the economy. Another group won't give Clinton credit for balancing the budget, they say he did it on the dotcom bubble and that anyone could have and would have. They'll vote Repub.

What you have to realize, however, is that the majority of Repub voters aren't thinking ideologues of any stripe. They're teevee idjits. They like to think of themselves as conservative. Fortunately, the jobless recovery has hurt a lot of them (and members of their extended families) so badly that even they can feel the pain through the fog of beer and TV. A considerable number of them might just jump to the Dems in the next election just to get the economy working again.

[kaitykaity]

20. A couple I know (both cons) are sore at Bush b/c of

the outsourcing of IT jobs to India. They are both
making noises about voting Democratic this time b/c
the husband, a Java programmer, hasn't had a job in
two years.

If things were going well, these two would still
selfishly tell me to shut up when I try to tell them
what a criminal Bush is.

Oh, well, I'll take what I can get.

[leftofthedial]

21. they believe he is very effective

at ramming through a regressive and repressive agenda

at cutting taxes for the wealthy (which makes them all squishy inside and nostalgic for the good old Raygun days) Tinkle down and all that

at institutionalizing class and racial hatred

at destroying whatever credibility government had in this country (they hate government)

at kicking the asses of brown-skinned people with funny names who also are godless heathens.

He's their guy! One of them. Except, that is, for the 90% of them who aren't wealthy bigots--those repukes are just stupid.

[marie123]

23. why do you

equate RW with being prejudice?

I am half Spanish and half Italian and i don't have a problem with that

[leftofthedial]

32. I judge the neocon right wing by its record

which is racist and classist.

[Solomon]

37. Bless your heart Marie. Stay with us a while and your eyes will be

opened. You're right. Not all republicans are racist, but the republican party itself, carries out a white supremacy agenda. As with religion, they fool people for example, by appointing people like Clarence Thomas, Colin Powell, Condi Rice, etc., and then say they couldn't possibly be racist. For people who don't think, it's very effective.

[salin]

59. policies.

While individual republicans may be fair minded. Many GOP politicians push policies that have racist undertones, and sadly, some politicians use couched racist rhetoric in campaigning to appeal to certain voters. This makes coming to terms with our multi-ethnic society, and ensruing that equality and equity of opportunity is a reality rather than just a bunch of words, less likely.

For example, in the mid nineties the GOP (and then Gov Pete Wilson) in California pushed several ballot propositions that on the surface appealed to many people. The bills were to prevent any illegal aliens from receiving any social services. The details included requiring (in face of penalities) teachers, social workers, and medical personnel to report any family that MIGHT be illegal to the INS within 30 or 60 days. This would require these people to become INS officers - OR FACE LEGAL reprecussions. The worst part of the bills were struck down as unconstitutions. However, in DC, the GOP thought the law sounded great... so they began to push legislation that would deny any services to LEGAL immigrants who pay taxes. One could claim that both of these efforts were not racist - as some immigrants are white.... However the ads used to sell the California proposition were telling. Grainy black and white pictures (sometimes with a sienna tint) of Hispanic people pouring across the border in droves were used - the quality and content was very reminiscent of the Willie Horton ads used in the 1988 presidential race.

This is just a sampling of how the GOP has become to be perceived as hostile to non-whites.

[TNOE]

22. The ones I deal with are extremely

unintelligent, uncurious, ill-informed, mis-informed, uninformed and blindingly loyal to the Repub *president - whom they know nothing about. Just go look over at Hollywood Halfwits (now RightNation) - they have no clue about Bush's background, know nothing about 9/11 - it is truly frightening.

[Enraged_Ape]

34. I work with several intelligent Republicans

And EVERY ONE has said they are voting for the Democratic candidate in the next election. They never speak of Bush except to say how disappointed they are in him.

One of them even went to a Michael Moore appearance with me, and he loved it. He even picked up a copy of Mike's book and had the man autograph it!!

[no one in particular]

24. Primarily religion

Bush has always been upfront about his religion. People tend to believe that members of their group are more righteous than other groups. I see it all the time: Democrats think fellow Democrats are more honest, conservative Christians think fellow conservative Christians are more honest, etc. True or not, that kind of thinking permeates humanity.

[ieoeja]

25. They think Bush is an idiot.

I find myself frequently surrounded by them. And when Bush speaks the most common comment is, "I can't believe I voted for that moron".

But they still believe that they pay too much in taxes. They believe that people convicted of a capital offense should be executed when evidence is brought force proving their innocence ("yeah, but just look at the guy {after ten years in prison}, he LOOKS like a criminal! He probably did something else just as bad for which he wasn't caught, so we oughta go ahead and fry him now while we have the chance. Damn liberals!"). The believe Democrats are going to take their guns and "bring more ni--ers into the country" (actual quote except they didn't use the word).

So given a choice between a complete moron who supports what they want and a smart guy who will take their guns, force their daughters to marry black men, force them into government jobs, and make murder and rape legal, they are going to vote for the moron.

[The Night Owl]

29. Conservatism is a religion, not a political movement.

Conservatism is a religion to conservatives. As such, conservatism demands faith and loyalty from followers no matter what happens and no matter what the facts are.

Conservatives will have faith in Bush no matter what he does, even if what he does is wrong. If you want proof of that, look no further than Pat Robertson's recent statement about Bush...

"The Lord has just blessed . I mean, he could make terrible mistakes and come out of it. It doesn't make any difference what he does, good or bad, God picks him up because he's a man of prayer and God's blessing him." - Pat Robertson

To conservatives, Dubya works in mysterious ways.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Solomon]

39. And I guess your hatred for Clinton was just

adulterated. Why don't you go and kill your neighbor before he burns your house?

[rene moon]

40. My cat is a better "courageous" leader!

The world has always been "dangerous". It boggles my mind that the US acts as if we are the only country in the world to deal with terrorists.

The majority of people in this country are idiots and I will never get behind something so evil.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Robbien]

45. Do you really believe he is taking the rank and file GOP

along with him? Ha! He is taking the rich and powerful along with him irregardless of the party they belong to. We rank and file of all parties will be left back here squabbling over the scraps.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[salin]

55. Interesting (and optomistically generous) perspective

I don't know, however, that there is any prosperity that follows the Bushjr recovery. Seems like he has even outdone his father on this count.

They recently reweighted the CPI - de-emphasizing weights like health-care, energy use, education expenses and increasing the weight of things like toys. This way the 'inflation rate' appears to be relatively flat, even though people are paying increasingly more from their monthly paychecks.

There has been a huge net job loss over the past three years and the "big turnaround" that was recently expected, a whopping 1,000 new jobs that is an average of 20 jobs per state. Wowee! Now Bushjr is talking to India (who we need as an ally) about how to make it easier to fight any state-level policies geared at slowing down moving US jobs to India. Yep, he is actively pursuing job security... for Indians!

As to security, I trust the War College, and Senator Bob Graham in the ascertion that to go after Iraq that was NOT an immenent threat to US National Security, greatly risked our actual security. As early as Spring of 2002 intelligence, military and monetary resources were pulled away from the pursuit of disrupting Al Qeada (remember them - they are the ones who DO present an immenent threat) to prepare for the War in Iraq. By late summer of 2002 there were reports in the international press of increased Al qeada activity IN AFGHANISTAN. By the time we actually went to war in Iraq there were reports of the Taliban regrouping and beginning to take control of parts of Afghanistan. Just as the administration downplayed the terrorist threat in the first 8 months in office - despite the increased traffic from international intelligence agencies that an attack was being planned - the administration is distracted by their own personal agenda and have placed National Security second.

The first MBA president (and businessman VP) does indeed treat their job as one of serving client needs in a sort of business model. Unfortuantely their clients are not the average citizens of the United States. Instead their clients are the big corporate donors who profit off of policy, suck up taxpayer dollars and try to give as little return to the taxpayers as is possible.

[PVnRT]

43. DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS

Thank you.

[maggrwaggr]

50. Laughing my Ass off! "Wise?" "Courageous"???

It's real courageous to send someone else's kids to their death in an illegal war.

It's real courageous to lie in front of the world.

You, sir, have swallowed the lies, which makes you the fool, not us.

Why aren't you volunteering for the front lines in Iraq?

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SeekerofTruth]

46. Bush starting to annoy them

They like Bush's policy on fighting terror.

Most people would agree that if we have another terror attack on our soil, it could possibly destroy us economically. Therefore, anything to protect us from a terror attack is more important than anything else.

However, they are really getting pissed (I love this part) about his domestic spending. This is his weak point. I mention how under Clinton all the Republicans did was piss and moan about how Clinton wanted to spend money. The Republicans offered a counter-weight to Clinton. Now that Congress and the President are Republicans, there is no counter-weight and we're all getting screwed!!

[Insider]

47. #1: he is a winner

and the ones i know (military/retirees/contractors) have wanted a slick winner since clinton kicked his father's a**

#2: psyops. the whole process of ruining clinton, testing the constitution, ruining gore, testing the supreme court, and elevating the idiot son. they use tested language to convince sheeple of anything. remember some years ago psyops people were found working at cnn?

[maggrwaggr]

54. yes, and they continue to do it. Now Dean is "crazy"

and Kerry, the insider who won't change the status quo, is the leader. Edwards, the pretty-boy newcomer who also won't change the status quo, is now the surging underdog.

[rocktop15]

56. Ignorance.

I'm 18 and am very active in politics. I joined the College Democrats chapter at UT. I just donated 10 dollars to the DNC. I live in Chattanoooga, TN and I would venture to say that 95% of my friends are Republicans. They are only Republicans out of pure ignorance and also the fact that their parents are as well. I try to have discussions with them but they always end in frustration. They tell me Bush is a good president because there hasn't been another terrorist attack on US soil. I really don't know how to respond to that one other than to say that terrorists attacks go on everyday in Iraq with over 500 soldiers dead. Some of them are too ignorant to believe that a president and his staff would LIE to us. I learned something in politics and that is that you can NEVER take anything at face value. It sounds like the nation is doing pretty damn good when you hear the dogma that comes out of Bush and Co's mouths, but look at the facts. We're losing thousands of jobs to foreign countries, soldiers are dying by the day, deficit is highest as its ever been, rich are getting richer, poor are getting poorer, and the middle class is disappearing daily. If someone could help me out here then it'd be greatly appreaciated. Thanks!

[Brewman_Jax]

57. Ask them

what has Bush* done for them, family, or friends? Don't let them dodge with RW spew. ("He's a good Christian", or "he's shown leadership!" etc.) Make them give you facts. Watch the expressions as find that they can't give you any facts that Bush* has done anything for them.

Then, you can tell them what Bush* has done TO them.

You can do it! :thumbsup:

[karabekian]

58. this isn't exactly a place to get an unbiased view

of conservatives or the conservative movement. I believe that most conservatives generally like bush as a person, dislike most or all of his domestic agendas, but will still vote for him because they view the democratic candidates as much worse.

[Toots]

60. Granted we are biased but we also respect truth

The truth of the matter is this administration is packed with serial LIARS. You can spin any way you want but the truth is still the truth. What Limbaugh and the right-wing tell is far from the truth. It really isn't that hard to prove either

[RedEarth]

61. You're not blinded, but there are many repubs that

think bush is a great president. It absolutely astounds me they can come to this conclusion, but tragically they do.