you thihk Kerry is not involved?

[nadinbrzezinski]

http://www.moderateindependent.com/v2i21election.htm

INSIDE THE ELECTION FRAUD BATTLE

Think Kerry Is Not Involved In This Fight? Think Again. Also: Fallujah = Operation Distract From Fixed Election.

by Betsy R. Vasquez





NOVEMBER 10, 2004 – When Senator John Kerry (D-MA) talked about how his policy would be different in Iraq, he kept saying, in effect, ‘It’s the how, stupid.’ He said repeatedly he would fight a “smarter” war.

Flash forward to today. Following the election, there was a problem apparent. The exit polling didn't match the ballot count, and many reasons for that began to become apparent.

John Kerry was faced with three options. One, fight on publicly rather than conceding and put the nation into a media frenzied limbo. Two, concede and go on with his life, turning his back on his promise to his supporters to ensure that “every vote will be counted.”

Most people are assuming that John Kerry opted for the second of these while John Edwards, his runningmate, opted for the first, and since Kerry was the big dog, he won out. But people who think this are thinking in Bush terms, all or nothing, either you are for the war or against it, that either Senator Kerry was for recounting the votes or he was against it.


___________________

Watergate took a while to build....

[knowbody0]

1. this administration's worst nightmare

is kerry's brilliant sense of strategy. his 20 years in the senate, his integrity and his obsession for justice.
















14

[LittleClarkie]

19. Donning the tin hat for Kerry

In the back of my pointed little head, I wonder if some of the newbies we've seen lately putting Kerry down and steering us away from him in 2008 are doing this deliberately for exactly this reason: the present administration is scared to death of Kerry, and never want him within ten feet of them again.

God forbid he actually get in there and show everyone what these people have been up to these last 4 or possibly 8 years in all it's corrupt glory.

I'm not talking all newbies, of course. But I wonder if some folks aren't in here to deliberately pit us against one another.

I know, I've gone cuckoo for cocoa puffs. G'head, say it. I'm ready for the wraparound leisure suit, the one that buckles in the back. Maybe it's because I'm relatively new to this political junkie thingie. Does earnestly following politics for the first time in one's life often lead to short-term paranoia (at least I hope it's short-term)?

[Fovea]

33. Who knows?

But I think it is safe to say, that if John Kerry had set out to rip the heart out of the people who wanted to see their candidate fight the most un democratic, religiously zealot, downright criminal administration in America's history, he could scarcely done better.

As for the new dinner jacket, I have seen worse.
But then again, I used to work in an ER...

[noel711]

2. Go, go Johnny go....!

[bush_is_wacko]

3. while I agree with you...

I agree with you that Kerry is involved behind the scenes. However, I'm not sure it is so that he can be sworn in as Prez. There have been a lot of criminal allegations flying around regarding much more than the election. Kerry is one of the best investigators out there. I hope he is using his talents well!

[newyawker99]

6. Hi bush_is_wacko!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[angrydemocrat]

4. Me and others have been saying.......

....this all alone. Some people on these boards have been making nasty comments about Kerry calling him everything that can be imagined. I hope that this starts to register in those peoples minds and the trashing stops. This man isn't a quitter or wimp and never has been. He is a very smart man that knows what he is doing. If people trusted him enough to vote for him in the first place they sure as hell ought to be able to trust him even when things aren't going the way they want them to. Because if you can't trust the man when the chips are down why in the world would you ever vote for him in the first place. All anyone has to do is just look up the facts about this man and that alone is enough to tell anyone this man has never been a quitter. He is far to smart a man and cares to much about this country to ever be called a quitter. One thing I truly beleive is even if enough evidence is not found to overturn this election you can beleive this man will be a thorn in Bush's and other repugs sides to the point they will wish they had never heard the name Kerry! As for Edwards I also beleive he isn't finished either. I truly beleive that he will work to help Kerry get all the evidence they need to bring Bush and these repugs to there knees! I also beleive they will be working to get enough evidence to have Bush impeached. They will do more than what people are giving them credit for. As I said before about Bush and the repugs before all is said and done they will wish they never heard the name Kerry!

[newyawker99]

7. Hi angrydemocrat!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[SayitAintSo]

17. I truely believe what you are saying... The one thing that bothers me

is this. If WE see this, then the Kerry campaign team should see it even more handily. Why then is there so much mud slinging towards Teresa? Doesn't make sense to me. I guess there are petty people on both sides of the aisle.

[Hotler]

20. I really want to believe you but....

I don't think there is much going on other than the status quo. There hasn't been a single Democrat on the hill in four years with balls and backbone enough to stand up and publicly shout out what a bunch of treasonous, thieving thugs BushCo is. For some reason I think most of the hill is scared of the neo-cons. They act like a bunch of school yard bullies, and everyone is afraid.

[patomime]

26. I'm for Kerry

who has never let anyone down. He is the truest of patriots - has never wavered and never will. I salute him ... and will continue to do so!:bounce: :bounce: :toast:

[The Minus World]

5. Great Article.

Kerry's concession didn't settle right with many DUers, although many of us have been saying that strategy is necessary if you're going to fight against those who play dirty; it's a requirement to look not only at the move ahead, but 2, 3, 4 moves down the line as well.

One thing about Republicans is that they absolutely lack the ingenuity to subvert Democratic intellectual culture - they can become rabid if necessary, but they are limited in their actions by party appeasement.

This is a perfect feint on the part of Kerry, and America's now poised to deliver the match-winning uppercut to this administration.

[Starlight]

8. I don't know what to think about him at this point.

I'm trying to reserve judgement. :shrug:

[tavalon]

11. Yeah

This is where I'm at, too. I was very, very angry at him, now not so much but I still have my doubts about whether he really is working behind the scenes. OTOH, it would explain a couple of things that have remained as unexplainables in my mind. OTOH, wait, I don't have three hands!

[The Zanti Regent]

9. Neither do I

I want him to come clean.

John Kerry, did YOU make a Bonesman deal with Bush or Not?

I want the answer!

[jjanpundt]

10. I just finished reading an article from the July issue of

Vanity Fair (ok I have a huge backlog of magazines) on the Skull and Bones society. The author concluded that while some members are absolutely fanatical about the society, Kerry considers it a privilege to belong to the society, but not crucial or center to his life. Interesting bit was that Prescot Bush and Papa Bush were members and that Papa Bush pressured them to admit W into the society.

Personally, I thought the society (and most college societies) sounded a bit juvenile, but that's just my opinion.

[ixion]

12. they are juvenile, but they are also Kafkaesque and cultish

if you ask me.

I spent a couple years in fraternity life, and while it offered me some interesting lessons in the end I moved on because of the extreme cliqueishness and politics that occur there. I found many members of the greek organizations to be shallow liars void of a real personality. There were some good people, albeit very few. As a rule, they are not to be trusted.

Ironically, these are the same people who generally take up leadership roles in our society. :crazy:

[Stuckinthebush]

14. I'll give you the answer

No.

A fraternity brother does not trump one's duty to country.

[MISSDem]

13. John Kerry has gone back to the Senate to be the

Senator that he was elected to be. He was my candidate for President and I really, really liked him and still do. But, the election is over, he lost and we have to move on. Nothing is going to change this.

[Stuckinthebush]

15. Well, it sounds like something could change this

The election hasn't been certified in Ohio yet, and there is an effort to scrutinize the votes behind the scenes.

We'll see....

[Dancing_Dave]

16. I don't believe he's doing nearly enough

About the worst case of election fraud in the history of this country. Even if he knows the repuke Supreme Court would over-turn his efforts no matter how strong the evidence taking it THAT far would make the issue very clear to people.

What Al Gore did, ultimately did make the fraud in Florida 2000 election very clear. I would be happy to see that much from Kerry.

[The Zanti Regent]

21. Neither do I

I want him to answer this question:

DID YOU MAKE A BONESMAN DEAL WITH BUSH?

YES OR NO...

[Oeditpus Rex]

18. My theory: Kerry understood that his presidency would have

a hell of a time getting any traction if he had 58 million constituents thinking he "stole" the election. (Remember W's inaugural motorcade?) So he and his people decided it'd be best if they conceded, fell back and gambled on "outsiders" exposing the truth. There were already enough people saying before the election that they didn't "feel comfortable" with Kerry as president. Think how that would go if he was seen as being as ruthless and underhanded as the asshats.

Of course, if it all bears out there'll still be a big backlash with wails of "stolen." But if Kerry can point to Bev Harris and say something like "Democracy has prevailed," it'll be a lot harder for the asshats to build a case against him with even the perception of legitimacy.

[newyawker99]

32. Hi Oeditpus Rex!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[bin.dare]

22. I have seen no evidence

that Kerry or any of the campaign staff are doing any fighting about the stolen votes. a mention of a couple of lawyers flying into Ohio is about it.

maybe he is a brilliant strategist, and all those 10k+ lawyers are putting together a masterful plan to defeat the shrub election result. all i can say is i didn't see it during the election and i ain't seeing it now.

[New Earth]

23. did you see this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x56035

[Kerrytravelers]

24. Let's all take a deep breath here

As I said in an earlier post... just because you don't physically see it doesn't mean it isn't happening.

I'm also going to toss out another thought here.

I think it's same to assume that here at DU, there are plenty of posters who are involved with the Kerry Campaign- some closer than others. If people come here guarenteeing that something is going on under the radar, it might be true. They may not write it out directly because there are lurkers here. The last thing we need are repug lurkers watching the infighting. Trust in Kerry that he is not just sitting on the money donated for the recounts. Don't go changing parties and vowing never to vote for Kerry again. It might take 18 months to prove the truth... and Nixon was out 18 months after her won re-election.

REmember, it's been 15 days since the election. That is hardly enough time to perform the task of investigating election and voter fraud. Let's be reasonable here. I refuse to believe that the Kerry Campaighn is just going to hand over the most important election in our lifetimes. We may not see the results we want to see, but it won't be from lack of trying.

[Sterling]

25. Whatever.

Not holding my breath.

[manxkat]

27. perception is reality

If Kerry isn't SEEN fighting, in most people's minds the reality is that he has wimped out.

And, because he conceded so early, the media has excused itself from all investigative journalism about the questionable discrepancies and a myriad of issues that smell extremely fishy. If Kerry had stood up on principle for what is right -- and, all those who voted for him could SEE him literally fighting the good fight, there'd be a lot better chance of uncovering the truth.

The truth can still be uncovered without Kerry's explicit help. But, how will Kerry be viewed even if we succeed in getting him in the White House? Will the perception be that he fought and believed in those who voted for him? I don't see how he benefits from this so-called strategy of working behind the scenes, but I would love my cynicism to be proven wrong.

My gut tells me that John Kerry just plays it safe. But how can you lead and make substantial change with that attitude? That's why Howard Dean electrified people -- he didn't mince words, and came right out and leveled with people about the war, at a time when it wasn't the safe thing to do.

Why DID Kerry vote in 2002 to give Bush authority to go to war in Iraq? Was he really that gullible that he could trust Bush, after all the lies that came out of the chimp's mouth? I'll say this: Kerry was never a flip-flopper -- he consistently played it safe, over and over again.

Again, perception is reality. Can Kerry still redeem himself in his supporters' eyes if he isn't SEEN fighting for this?

All the above said, I'd still celebrate if Kerry became President, and I'm continuing to push people to question the election results. If we really do succeed, then I believe we need to be as vigilant and cynical about Kerry as we are about Bush. He will certainly have to earn my trust.

[LittleClarkie]

28. However,

"If Kerry had stood up on principle for what is right -- and, all those who voted for him could SEE him literally fighting the good fight, there'd be a lot better chance of uncovering the truth."

I'm afraid there would have been a lot better chance of the other side burying the truth as fast as they could if Kerry had come at them head on. There would have been swarms of lawyers and everything else. Right now things are relatively low key. I don't think the circus would have helped much, except to make Kerry look good to his supporters as he went down in flames. It would have been good PR.

Isn't that what happened with Gore? We could all see him fighting, but how much did all that attention get in the way?

[manxkat]

29. True, the other side would have made a fuss

and that may have backfired on Kerry. Perhaps Kerry really IS playing a trump card by staying low-key. I dearly hope you are right, although my skepticism is skyrocketing.

The thing about Gore was that we did SEE him fighting, yes, but not as vociferously as many wished! Had he conceded early, I believe he would have lost both the election AND his credibility.

Jon Stewart had it right when he was on Crossfire and talked about the freedom Al Sharpton and others had in their campaigns. They knew they weren't going to win the election, so they could really speak their minds. It's the paradox that keeps so many Democrats from gaining strength -- by constantly playing it safe, they're not speaking truth to power and therefore will have less of a platform as effective leaders.

I come back to my hunch that Kerry is just the same -- a politician who believes that to stay in the game, you have to play it safe. Now he's got his sites on 2008. That doesn't work for me, and many other Americans who are looking for bold leadership. I won't consider voting for Kerry again unless he has redeemed himself by proving that he didn't abandon those who voted for him. And, given his track record, I think that probability doesn't exist. I hope he surprises me, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[grumpy old fart]

30. Amen brother...

Unless this all turns out to be a great stealth campaign, Kerry ain't got a prayer in 2008, and neither does anyone else. We are headed for hell in a handbasket, and being right will be all we have to comfort us in the fall of the American Empire.......

[DemBones DemBones]

31. I hope he is, but fear he isn't.

If my fear is proven wrong, I'll be the first to apologize for criticizing his moves. Considering the weight of the match, his tipping the king seemed ill-considered to me, but I don't have a clear view of the rest of the board.