BP wants fishermans tax records

[billymayshere]

From the LA Times.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-oil-spill-claims-20100530,0,4758933.story


Reporting from Delacroix, La. —BP's request for tax records poses a problem for some residents of fishing communities in southeastern Louisiana — the nonconformists who haven't kept records or reported their cash income.

The first step for a commercial fisherman or coastal business seeking compensation for losses suffered in the oil spill seems simple enough: Submit copies of a commercial fishing license, proof of residence and tax statements.

But the request for tax records poses a serious challenge to some residents of close-knit fishing communities on the swampy edges of southeastern Louisiana, which for generations have harbored self-reliant nonconformists who don't pay much heed to everyday rules and regulations.

In other words, they often get paid in cash — and don't always report it.

"I worked for an uncle last year who paid me in cash," said a crab fisherman who asked to remain anonymous. "The BP guy wanted my tax statements, but how can I pay taxes if everything I earned was in cash?"




How many of these people claimed poverty wages or none at all? Looks like a way to pay out on the cheap however; it is hard to feel bad for tax cheats.

[pnwmom]

1. These "nonconformists" can't prove what they made, so how can they prove

what they lost?

I guess that's the risk you take when you go off the books.

[Larkspur]

2. And this is how BP will weasal its way out of paying billions in cleanup costs

The power of multi-national corporations will crush the small time fishermen, just like Exxon did with those in Alaska.

[provis99]

3. rotten tax cheats; I don't feel sorry for them.

Parasites on civilization is what they are.

You can bet they are all Republicans, too.

[flamingdem]

4. I hope you're kidding! With the crap economy many have no other choice nt

[elias7]

7. crap economy for generations?

I'm pretty mixed on this one. On one hand, being outside the box is their way of life and is integral to the regional character, but on the other hand, how can they quantify their loss? I pay my taxes in this crappy economy, why are they different? But then, BP is using this to their advantage in a typically corporate move and could find a formula to reimburse if they chose....

[aquart]

11. Well, you'd be wrong.

Maybe it's time you took a better look at how many have been forced to work off the books. Some for family, some because states insist a small employer pay as much workmen's comp insurance for a part-time as a full-time employee. There are many businesses barely hanging on which have off-the-books employees. It's a rotten deal and people have all kinds of reasons for taking it. It screws the employee while letting the employer survive...maybe in a very small, non-elite way, but survive.

Your righteous, blanket condemnation is utterly ignorant.

[Demit]

13. But employees could still stay within the law by claiming their cash income, no?

It's too tempting for some, when they get paid in cash, to consider it hidden from the gov't so that they don't have to pay taxes on it. Well, that's a double-edged sword, as these folks are finding out.

Freelancers and other independent contractors know it. You get the immediate benefit, but you don't get the benefits down the line. You can't have it both ways.

[gristy]

5. What goes around comes around, I guess.

Yeah, if a fisherman can't prove income from the fishing or otherwise making use of the gulf's resources, too bad.

[brewens]

6. Some of them make good money under the table and file

taxes. The low income they do show qualifies them for a nice refund or the earned income tax credit. I know a painter that does that every year.

[dkf]

8. I wonder how many people do.

Someone told me people here illegally do that too. I hope that is incorrect.

[CC]

9. People here illegally

usually tend to either work for cash or they pay taxes in, along with SS etc. but never file a tax return or get SS. So then the Fed, State and SSA get to keep the money. They also don't get unemployment or workman's comp. They are hiding,might be in plain sight but they sure as hell ain't giving govt. their address. Oh and illegal don't get welfare checks either.

[dkf]

23. Exactly. They have no reportable income so they can get the child tax credit.

[CC]

24. You have to file a return to get any

tax credit, including child ones. Once you file a return your return is check against SS earnings records. Now illegals do not have a valid SS# therefore it would kick out the return. That causes the IRS to look deeper, then it can get turned over to any enforcement agency. Busted. Illegals might be taking a chance being here but they aren't usually that stupid so they don't file a return at all....no tax credit including for children. Govt. keep any money collected.

Be on the other side of it and have someone else using your SS number to work. Same system kicks you out to be audited. It can be fixed each year it happens by proving you did not earn the amount of money attached to your SS# but it can be a pain in the ass and time consuming. Another reason you should not carry your SS card on your person and be very careful who you give the number too.

[CC]

10. I feel sorry for them as to their loss of way of life and

earnings but can't say as I feel sorry for them getting bit in the ass on their tax cheating. When anyone works for cash eventually they pay for it. No workman's comp if they are hurt, no disability and do it long enough very reduced SS to no SS benefits. And yes, if you don't pay into SS you won't get SS benefits when you retire. Lots of Posse Comitatus members have learned that lesson the hard way.

[cornermouse]

12. So now we're going ot attaack the victims in this mess? n/t

[kelly1mm]

15. How is this attacking them? BP will (apparently) pay them for lost income.

They rightly want to know what that income is. In the US that means tax records. Or BP could just take their word for it as they have show to be SOOOOOO honest, upright, and by the book in the past don't you know! I do a lot of tax law and I see this from small business all the time after the IRS comes after them after they do a lifestyle audit. They will go years making just enough to get the full EITC yet have mortgages and personal car payments of $3000 per month! No sympathy from me although they are able to pay my bills so I guess I should be happy? You want to know who else get "screwed" in this situation? The spouse (usually the wife) in a divorce/child support case. Really tired of the meme that they are just hard working small businesses struggling to get by - yeah, on the back of taxpayers and their spouse and kids. In my dealings with them they are basically narcissistic right wingers who take advantage of anything/anybody they can to get more for themselves.

[cornermouse]

17. The flip side of the "protection from cheaters coin".

You build a system with extensive checks and additions over time that eventually overtakes and surpasses the costs that you would have paid out to what you call "cheaters".

By the way, government statistics that you might want to look about concerning their income.
http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos177.htm#earnings
Earnings About this section

In May 2008, median annual wages of wage-and-salary fishers were $27,950. The middle 50 percent earned between $19,510 and $33,580. The bottom 10 percent earned less than $16,080, while the top 10 percent earned more than $45,930. Earnings of fishers and fishing vessel operators normally are highest in the summer and fall when demand for their catch and environmental conditions are favorable and lowest during the winter. Many full-time and most part-time workers supplement their income by working in other activities during the off-season.

Earnings of fishers vary widely, depending upon their position, their ownership percentage of the vessel, the size of their ship, and the amount and value of the catch. The costs of the fishing operation such as fuel, repair and maintenance of gear and equipment, and the crew's supplies are deducted from the sale of the catch. Net proceeds are distributed among the crew members in accordance with a prearranged percentage. Generally, the ship's owner, usually its captain, receives half of the net proceeds. From this amount, the owner pays for depreciation, maintenance and repair, and replacement and insurance costs of the ship and its equipment; the money that remains is the owner's profit.

If you don't feel guilty yet, you should.

[kelly1mm]

19. Nope, not feeling guilty at all. Those BLS statistics are "on the books"

income. As the OP article states, there is a lot of multi generational tax cheating going on in the fishing business.

[Hugin]

20. as there is in the oil business. However, it's on a whole different scale of cheating. n/t

[kelly1mm]

22. You are right there! I say a pox on both there houses! PAY YOUR DAMN TAXES! nt

[dgibby]

14. Just a reminder:

One of the wealthist corporations in the US, GE, paid NO taxes last year.

[War Pigs]

18. can't have it both ways

same people who don't have tax returns want the U.S. to be in 2 $ 1 trillion wars in the Middle East, want the gubmint to save them from the private sector's oil spill, the gubmint to keep out the illegals and to fix everything when a hurricane blows thru "hurricane ally"? Construction and agricultural (fisheries also) are notorious for cash payouts and yet vote conservative (at least there's a consistency to the logic there).. Sorry, no sympathy here for hypocrites:wtf:

[kelly1mm]

21. That is because we don't have a wealth tax, we have an income tax.

Can you find anything illegal (not immoral - whole different discussion there) about GE's deductions?

[Hugin]

16. Pretty typical RW response... Begrudge pennies and hoard dollars.

I hear BP is a "Big and Important" corporation out there in CA. Let's see the LA Time's tax records.