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Daveparts still Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:06 AM
Original message
Permanently Unemployed
Permanently Unemployed
By David Glenn Cox

I have come to the conclusion that I am permanently unemployed; after almost two years of non-stop hunting I dont admit defeat but only the inevitable. Meanwhile, the mainstream media are doing all that they can do to convince you that the economy is doing much better and that prosperity is just around the corner.

They proudly boast, First time jobless claims down lowest since April! Down from 558,000 first-time claims last week to 554,000 first-time claims this week. Or 1,111,000 first-time unemployment claims in two weeks. That's more than two million new claims a month. Should that make us ready to throw confetti? The retail sales number for July was down .1%. Can you imagine how bad that number would have been without Cash for Clunkers? We do know that Cash for Clunkers ran out of its first billion dollars in a month.

Oh, but that .1% number, thats versus the month prior. The sales numbers versus July of 2008 are down by 8.6%. Almost ten million Americans are receiving some sort of government assistance, and as the numbers of unemployed climb the number receiving unemployment is pared as their benefits run out. That was down by 141,000 as of last week.

The inability of being able to find a job has me given to manic mood swings and bouts of cynicism and anger. Im no criminal; hell, Ive never been arrested for anything. But to be considered for employment in todays job market you must submit a credit report to be hired. It's Visa and MasterCard who determine if youre a good employee, not your twenty-odd year record. My credit is in the tank, as I would wager it is for many of you.

Im also over fifty years old, which is no crime unless you happen to live in the stupidest country in the world. Single payer healthcare is common sense, not communism. You cover everyone from their first diaper until their last breath. With a huge pool of healthy you can take care of the sick and frail. This is the way the rest of the friggin world does it, but we are so stupid that even the best plan put forward still leaves the insurance industry in charge.

The other day, after a long and drawn out fight, the California state government agreed on a budget. The budget fight was ugly due to the downturn in revenue due to the economy. The answer was to make many painful cuts in social programs affecting the poorest, the frailest and the most vulnerable. After all branches had agreed to this budget, the governor then used his line item veto to cut five billion more. Its call betrayal, its called underhanded and contemptible, but in the mainstream media its called a secret.

There have been job offers that I have turned down; one offered me five dollars a post to pitch their products on other websites. To just go out and spam websites for money, well, we have a name for that kind of behavior. Another offered five to twenty dollars to rewrite someone elses articles so that they could keep the SEO keywords but fool the robots. This is what passes as job offerings today. This morning I got an email for a work at home scam where I would send them fifteen dollars as a one time training fee, and they would to train me to process applications. My training material would teach me to place email ads offering to teach others to process applications after a fifteen-dollar training fee.

In this corporatocracy every card is wild. AT&T, our Internet provider, has called offering to upgrade our service for free, but Ive been down that road with them before. After ninety days the bill will go up and they will calmly explain that that is what we agreed to. So we told them, No, dont change anything. We like it fine just the way it is. They call us at least three times a week now, and it's hard not to get ugly with them. I was on You Tube and they advised that they would soon no longer support my browser and I needed to upgrade.

So I did, to Microsoft something or other, and they asked me, Do you want to use Microsofts suggested sites? I thought to myself, what kind of brain dead moron needs Microsoft to suggest web sites, and so I said, No. At the end of the upgrade it asked me again, and again I said No! Since the download, every morning I get a Microsoft message telling me of the great features available to me if Ill just take their tutorial that starts by asking me questions and then more questions and then I cancel. I hit cancel because, number one, I just wanted to watch You Tube videos, and number two, I dont want to buy anything or subscribe to anything or have any corporation giving me advice on where to visit. Yet at the bottom of my favorites bar Microsoft has added a Turn on suggested sites button. just in case I change my mind.

You just reach a point where you want to explode, tired of being hassled, scammed, and constantly buggered by some corporation trying to sell you something and unwilling to take No! for an answer. This is why we get banking bills that help the banks at the public's expense, and despite Obamas promises to aid homeowners the banks have used the bailout money to increase the number of home foreclosures.

But you reach a point after youve lost your home and your 401K and you start selling cherished possessions for groceries. It is part of our fight or flight reflex, and you have to make a choice. And Ive had the fantasies of robbing banks, but I dont want to hurt anyone. The most recurrent fantasy Ive had is not to rob a bank but to just burn a bank down for the sheer joy of it! Just watch that sucker burn to ashes and to think about what my mother used to say: What if everybody did?

But they are the fantasies of the permanently unemployed and the new, permanent underclass. Just as healthcare reform will leave the current system in place, the number of employers offering healthcare will continue to dwindle. As the cost continues to rise, fewer and fewer will have any health insurance, which brings me to where I live.

Even with the public option, without a job I cant afford it. After working for forty years and paying in premiums, the US government figures that they owe me zero in the way of government stipends.

John Kennedy said that any man looking for a job but unable to find one was a priority for the government. FDR said it this way: True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

And what we have here is a corporate dictatorship, coated with a blizzard of bullshit blowing from all sides, while the victims are ignored. Tinkering in the margins isnt reform. Leaving the Bush tax cuts in place isnt reform; continuing the wars isnt reform, and bailing out Wall Street and the banks isnt reform. Ignoring the millions of unemployed and passing them off with platitudes is criminal.

Im considering the Soylent Green approach, sell my car and move into a motel for two or three weeks. Sleep on clean linen, enjoy the air conditioning, take long hot showers, and eat and drink all I want. Then, when the money's gone, C'est La Vie.

I think the person who takes a job in order to live - that is to say, for the money - has turned himself into a slave. (Joseph Campbell)
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. Welcome to DU!

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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. I find this story hard to believe.
He says "In todays job market you must submit a credit report to be hired." Not necessarily. The credit industry has tried to frighten us into thinking we can't even be considered for a job without a spotless credit record and that every potential employer will check, but that's not really true.

I CAN identify with this: "You just reach a point where you want to explode, tired of being hassled, scammed, and constantly buggered by some corporation trying to sell you something and unwilling to take No! for an answer." Hear, hear.
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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. There are jobs that you will not be hired for if your credit score is too low.
My SIL works for Blue Cross and Blue Shield processing claims.. They changed the policy a few years back.. everyone's credit score was ran.. anyone with something low or bankrupt was fired. She was glad that she had already been scanned and worked for 15yrs because she had to bankrupt herself.. but they had already scanned her at the time of implementation. The reason they gave for the policy was that a person with bad credit could be manipulated or bought off in order to "approve" claims.

Also, govt work: military, FBI, CIA.. no bad credit, could be bought off by foreign operatives in order to help person financially.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I did not deny that fact.
I DID say that it is NOT absolutely, utterly impossible to get a job with a less than spotless credit record.

I should know. I have done it in the past.
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Daveparts still Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Believe it or not
Edited on Fri Aug-14-09 09:30 AM by Daveparts still
You must be employed, some places want a background check which includes a credit check.
Sure you can get a job at the car wash but anyplace where you handle money wants a credit check.

There is no block in the application to fill out to explain yourself. Bad Credit = Bad employee
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. As I said above, I DO "believe it." There ARE jobs where that matters. I know that.
And there are jobs that don't require the handling of money, and many of them OTHER THAN the "car wash"
don't require a credit check.

It may depend on the job you're applying for.

I don't understand why some people here on DU are so intent on denying the realities others of us have experienced. I'm not denying that there are jobs where credit rating matters; why are you so intent on denying that there are jobs where it does not?

It's like that thread once where people kept insisting, over and over again, that you need a credit card in order to book an airline flight or a hotel room or to order merchandise online. I and other posters said "No you don't; we've done it with debit cards many times." They kept retorting "No, no, you can't do that, you HAVE to have a CREDIT card." This, despite the fact that we were TELLING them we HAD DONE IT WITHOUT A CREDIT CARD. It was like they thought we were lying.
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Daveparts still Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Berry,
Edited on Fri Aug-14-09 10:14 AM by Daveparts still
Number one, there are very few jobs in total to begin with.
Number two, Many of the jobs are technical of which I'm not qualified for
Number three, you take half the jobs that I am qualified for and put them through the strainer of a credit check?
Number four, now add millions over over qualified people moving down anxious to take anything available and you have a merciless job market and a difficult situation indeed.

Just because you did it doesn't make it the rule, I once was thrown from an open car at 75 mph I was thrown three hundred feet and got up and walked away. Doesn't mean I'm talented or that everyone should be able to do it? No, it means I was just very lucky.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I didn't say it was the rule because I did it, either.
I just said, it is not a rule that you can't get a job without a credit check. See the difference?

I do think credit checks suck, and should not BE part of job screening at all. And I agree they contribute to an already strained situation.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. If you survived being thrown from a car at 75mph you'll survive this.
Lucky people don't do themselves in. This too shall pass - I know, I'm in my 50s, lost a well-paid big law firm job, went broke. I've been there. I'm still here.

If you must do it, do it to one of them who deserves it more than you do. Just do the right thing.
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Mnemosyne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
26. Hell, the car washers, at some dealerships around here, are having to take drug tests.
I have used a debit card at a hotel, but many moons ago. :)
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pollo poco Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. credit vs debit
Edited on Sat Aug-15-09 12:59 PM by pollo poco
Hey Berry,

I keep a credit card so that I can rent a car.

Sometimes, and in some places, you can use a debit card to rent a car.

I once arranged a car rental in my small Oregon town with a debit card.

When I got to LAX, to pick up the car, they wouldn't take it. Needed a credit card. What a nightmare.

They told me they didn't give a sh** what they told me in Oregon.

They make the rules, and they can change them.

They ONLY way to ensure that you can rent a car EVERY TIME is to use a credit card.

So, I am not intent on denying the realities others have experienced.

But to be guaranteed the right to rent a car anywhere, at any time, from any one:

you must have a credit card or you can be badly badly screwed.

If this has not happened to you or your business, you are merely lucky.

(edited for spelling)
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
20. "anyplace where you handle money wants a credit check"
Not true. I can assure you from a good source (me) not all companies do a credit check. I support the background check application for my (very, very large) company where most of the employees we background check (NOT credit check) handle money.

Additionally, I recently worked for a company where I had access to millions of dollars a day and, while they did a very high level security background check, they did not do a credit check.

Finally, re: "There is no block in the application to fill out to explain yourself." - in essence, there is. By law, anyone who has negative information returned on them from a background check is entitled to the information and has the opportunity to dispute/explain it.
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grace0418 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Some places don't even tell you that they are checking your credit score. You fill out
enough information when applying for many jobs that the hr person can check your credit without you even knowing. I've seen it done with my own eyes. You may have had it done without your knowledge.

At my last job, not only did they check my credit, they even demanded a copy of my DRIVING record. I am a graphic designer who sits a computer all day. No delivering, no driving (except for the commute, and for the first several years I took the bus to work). But I had to go downtown, wait in a long line, and pay money to have a one page report printed out that said "No incidents to report"just to get a job I ended up LOATHING with every fiber of my being. The guy at the DMV was mystified, asking me if I was going to be delivering anything or driving a company car at my new job.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. They checked your driving record, for a job not requiring you to drive? That's horrible.
I'm sure you're credit-checked without knowing it at some places, but driving record checked? Ewww.

I wonder what they would do if you said "I have no license. If hired, I would use public transportation."
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_dynamicdems Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. Believe it, about the credit report.
Not every job, but more and more of them require you to allow them to check your credit. Just off the top of my head, the retail chain Marshalls and their affiliated companies.

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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
3. Welcome to the club
And welcome to DU. :hi: There are no jobs, and even if a few are coaxed back, they will be gobbled up by the younger (cheaper) workers. Like George Carlin said, the powers that be only want the minimum number of workers to run the machines and keep the books; everyone else is just a consumer to sell to. And if you have no money to buy, you might as well be invisible. The only thing left is to homestead. Find a plot of land, plop a shed down on it, and grow your own food.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Well, THAT's a lovely optimistic way to look at it...
...I know things are bad, but with that kind of post you might as well hand out free suicide pills.
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izquierdista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Optimistic, realistic, and deluded
I think we could have a long discussion about the meaning of all three in today's world. I'm just realistic about my chances of getting a job, when the global economy is signaling me that I've already had my share of income from labor. Since I've become a "discouraged job seeker", I don't find life discouraging or depressing at all. I'm having a great time without somebody telling me they need some piece of BS paperwork right away. I like gardening, so growing my own food is a fun challenge. My goal now is to be as independent from the global economy as Ted Kaczynski, so I can have time to write.
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. That's great, so long as you don't go down Ted's road.
I hope you make it.
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Daveparts still Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Not a Pill but a Window
Unless youve been there you cant fully understand the pressures of doing the things you take for granted. You most likely have a bed to sleep in? And food in the refrigerator? And a refrigerator?

Its not suicide pills Im trying to give you but free pass into view Blackhole America where 2 million people a month are losing their jobs and by government estimates the economy is only gaining only 8,000 jobs. Where 3 million Americans families lost their homes last year and 3 million more are expected lose their homes this year and with 4 to a household thats 24 million Americans.

To say that we 24 million are underrepresented in the media would be a gross understatement. The media focus is on the health of the banks and not the health of the people.

Im not seeking pity Im try to let you see in to a place that the media dare not speak about, a place called American Reality!
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Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. You don't need to lecture to me on this topic.
For the record, I lost my job last month.

Trust me, I am a card-carrying member of the American Reality-Based Community.

But I have been here before, and I am not yet ready to lose all my optimism and give up.

I hope that's OK with everyone, for now.

In fact, if 18 months go by, I hope I'm not ready to give up optimism, even if I have to go an unconventional way. Because optimism is free. And when you're in a position like this, you need all the free stuff you can get.

I'm trying to keep a nice balance of staying optimistic without allowing myself to be deluded. I think it beats the alternative of depressed and hopeless. Because, even if I were depressed and hopeless, I'd have to bury it and gin up a sunny mood for any job interview I went on.

For now, I'll see how this works.
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AnotherDreamWeaver Donating Member (917 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
29. Did that 31 years ago. Posted on DU I would seed veggie seeds to anyone who wanted them
only 12 folks made the request. I figured folks were not really as bad off as I was imagining. (Or on the other hand, maybe they don't even have a flower pot they could put lettuce seed in?)
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. I would
like to take you up on that early next year, if the offer still stands. Am planning out a backyard raised bed garden.
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AnotherDreamWeaver Donating Member (917 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 01:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
37. check your private mail
send your address and I'll send some seed. Someone just let me know today the seed I sent has germinated for them.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. dupe
Edited on Sat Aug-15-09 04:02 PM by lildreamer316
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
36. Funny you should say that :-)
Thats exactly what I did 6 years ago. It's a fine felling, and after the initial learning process, it's a wonderful way to live.

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glowing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. I just had "Yellow Book" call me from some foreign land to let me
know that our free internet ad is going to expire, and "we just want to update the information to renew it for free for a year, let me verify your information". The address was listed incorrectly. After taking an infuriating 15 mins to get this man who barely spoke English to correctly take down our address, he then says, "for making the changes to your site, we will bill you for the..." That's when I said, "no thank you, no changes and I see that your scam is purposely messing up the information so that the changes are charged". Between barely understanding the person on the phone and their inability to understand me.. by the end of the confussion you don't even realize you've bought something until there's a bill in the mail.
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
11. Ironically
Even the most basic position clearance (Public Trust) for working for the federal government has standards that most of the people who write our laws could not meet.
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jotsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
19. I don't think you posted this to spark argument over hiring practices...
I don't know if I'm the kind of help you came looking for, but I'll babble on in the hope that something I say causes you to see a brighter way forward. I believe you're one of those wild cards of which you speak.

First, try not to blame yourself. The PTB (powers that be) are diverse and pervasive exploiters who will move on to a more profitable public the second it suits them. Then, the rest of us will be in the same boat as you, I believe that's only a matter of time. How you get through this can serve as a model on how those who are sure to follow might survive in an abandoned corporate domain.

I believe there's a difference between work and employment. That old adage about work being "what you do and not who you are" is a relevant notion we should all keep in mind now. I'm happy to elaborate if you'd like, let me know.

The world we're about to be has much to learn from you and your story if we are to survive the shell game that's been played with all our lives. Please find the courage to be a beacon, stick around and light the way to a more genuine and viable community of independent and productive souls. Our value lies not in the depth of our pockets, but the eternal resilience of a compassionate mind that speaks with the kind of clarity and candor your post conveys.

And lastly, welcome to Democratic Underground.

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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. Wow...
great writing, well put. Just wanted to say that.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
21. I Wanted to Send You a Private Message
I have an offer for you to consider. Can you message me?

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Daveparts still Donating Member (614 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. I would private message you
but I don't have enough posts, And on The eigth day God called forth to AT&T and said, "Change his E-mail address and God decided that it was good. But the earthlings and heavenly host were unhappy and said unto the world. "We shall not answer your E-mail's requesting a new password" Even if you send five E-mails for five days we will not reset your password.

And so it was that I was born again as Daveparts still. I'm am very interested in any offer and you can contact me at
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4dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Aug-14-09 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
24. North Dakota has jobs
They say there are plenty of jobs in ND..
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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 12:44 AM
Response to Original message
27. It's liberating
when you find out that you aren't tied to the system anymore.

Why do you need credit or a good credit rating? It sure would be easier without that impediment to some jobs but, unless you're starving or homeless, you don't really want to work for some wanker that judges you on your credit, do you? I know you WANT to work, and there is some useful, fulfilling work out there for you. Just don't get too discouraged, and go find a good therapist that will see you on a sliding scale until you are employed again.

Also, download Mozilla Firefox and use it as your browser. F### Microsoft and all who sail in her.

Strangely enough, I don't think employers believe a bad credit rating makes a person "liable to pressure or being bribed." What it does is indicate that you're "out of the system," in other words, you're not subject to the same motivations as his other employers. When I became sick and faced losing my credit, I panicked, but I've discovered that my life is more my own now. Employers like a person to be motivated by fear: fear of hunger, fear of bad credit, fear that he/she won't be able to feed their family. Otherwise, they'd have to pay the employee well and treat them well. Who needs that?

Some time back a woman that was facing potential foreclosure due to unemployment wrote about her fears and I posted the note following this post. It's not entirely applicable to your situation but it may be useful.

If you have no children, and your window of solvency is less than three months, and you're not very confident you'll have a reasonable job by then, I'm assuming desperation about survival. My advice (from experience, unfortunately) is to:

Take everything out of the bank and stash it someplace safe (well, leave in enough to keep it open), make one trip to a casino and play a slot machine once so you can say I lost it gambling. If someone asks you how much money you have say, "I'm broke." Practice it in the mirror until you believe it yourself. If you don't, you'll soon find yourself REALLY broke. Until you find work, you're going to need that money to survive. Don't make the mistake of only considering yourself broke if you literally have $0. If you have to ask for assistance of some sort (foodstamps), assume you're broke. Because, if you tell them, "Oh, I've still got this $1500 stashed away for a rainy day," they'll say, come back when you're broke, and you'll find that when that happens and you're car breaks down you won't be able to go back to ask for assistance BECAUSE YOU'RE TOO BROKE TO GET THERE.

Find a postal drop (preferably one that doesn't use box numbers but will allow you to have mail delivered to your name at that address) and change your mailing address on all correspondence to that address. If you have a credit card that doesn't have a high balance, hang on to it for dear life. A lot of simple errands, like renting a car when you fly to a city for a job interview, can only be accomplished with a credit card. Some places will let you use a debit/credit card, some won't. For example, Netflix won't give you a membership with a debit/credit card. You can do this without a credit card, but it's a lot easier with one. Don't assume that if you default on one card the other banks will stop your cards, because they won't. They make money on your account and they won't stop your card unless you don't pay the bill.

Buy a pay-as-you-go cell phone. Only give your new number to people that you trust and that might hire you. Put an answering machine on your home phone and start screening your calls (until you turn the thing off). If you don't have anything positive to report to a collector, don't talk to one. Remember, a collector is a person who regards you as a deadbeat, a cheat, and liar. It doesn't matter what you have to say to him, or what you do (even if you mail a certified check to him immediately), that individual is assuming you're a liar, and there isn't any reason for you to be polite to him or to play fair with him. If, by some miracle, some collector calls you on your new cell, keep repeating, "What, What. I can't hear you," throw the thing away and get a new one. When you are able to settle your debts without impoverishing yourself, you can contact your debtors and make arrangements (preferable through an attorney) for repayment. Until that time, there isn't anything to be gained by having contact with them. You don't get any points for being honest, for trying your hardest, for being a decent husband or wife, for having paid your debts honestly and consistently for twenty years, for going to church regularly, for having a conscience. When you owe them money and you can't pay, they regard you as a deadbeat, which means that they regard you as a liar and a thief. And from the way they'll talk to you you'll begin to believe it. Just don't talk to them. And, remember projection: they regard you as a liar because they know they're liars and they therefore naturally assume everyone is.

Don't be in a rush to go down and have the address on you driver's license changed. If you could only find a maildrop with a box number, ask a trustworthy friend if you can list his address as your residence when you have to renew your DL.

If you have car payments, and you don't owe too much, consider paying it off. If you owe too much on it, consider selling it and buying a good used car for cash. A good ten-year-old Japanese sedan with less than 100K miles. You'll need reliable transport to find work again but you don't want to be in a situation where someone can take your car away if money gets so tight you can't make a car payment.

Buy an used RV or car-trailer combination that you find you can live in for two years without going crazy (Check craigslist in your area). You can do this for less than $10K, and for as little as $5K if money is too tight), and start looking for decent RV parks in your area (if you intend to remain in the area) that have 1)good long-term rates, 2)nice management, and 3) decent laid-back tenants (hang around and talk to some of the residents. Do they have a communal area and activities. Are the long term residents elderly. Elderly people tend to be less threatening (then, for example, a bunch of folks with pickups, motorcycles, and tatoos)and often friendlier than middle age folks. This is important as RV parks all have a character of their own and trailers aren't soundproof. Also, since your husband is in IT, they could use his expertise. The down side is you can get invited to some pretty boring dinners, but they're trying to be nice).Free internet and cable is nice, too. and some RV parks provide it. Buy a large flat screen TV (that will fit!!) for the trailer to compensate for having to live in a tin box instead of a real house. Once you're out of the house and car payments and moved into the RV, your cost of living has dropped to under $1000 a month (and if you don't like the RV park, you can move your house!). This includes rent, utilities, car insurance, gas. You might find it liberating (or maybe humiliating, or maybe both). Food costs depend on your diet requirements.

Trade your computer gear for a laptop, if you don't already have one. Don't be afraid to get rid of everything -it's just stuff. Getting new stuff once your working again will be an adventure.

Sell the house and everything that won't fit in the trailer. The less stuff you have the more roomy the trailer will seem.

Giving up an identity as an invested, middle-class citizen is a bitter pill to swallow, but if you don't discover some new stream of income soon, they're going to take everything you own, ruin your credit, and you'll be left standing on the street (or living with the in-laws) with the consolation that you played by their rules. Woopee! This way you'll only have ruined credit. It may be your best option.

Remember, it typically takes six months to find a decent job. Being in IT has probably spoiled you in that regard. If you're in the Washington/Oregon area, it may take longer. If you don't find something in a year, I'd strongly consider returning to school and learning a trade like firefighter, plumber, whatever the local college has on offer that will but you in a new or optional profession in two years or less. It will at least give you something to do while you're unemployed (the idea of job hunting as a forty-hour a week occupation for an extended period of time is not only unrealistic it's sadistic).

In the long run, if your financial situation is desperate, this path is the most responsible to both you and the people you owe money to. You'll return to financial solvency and be able to settle your debts more quickly if you guard your physical and mental health by putting yourself first.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. I'm bookmarking this thread just for your post! Good advice. n/t
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 03:19 AM
Response to Original message
28. k+r
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-15-09 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
35. Credit Checks are very, very revealing
My friend is a landlord for an apartment building. Recently, the credit checks coming back are absolutely miserable. Chargeoffs, bad checks, and late payments are the norm. 15 adresses in the last 5 year are commonplace.

So, I can see why companies request them. The banking system has created yet another method to allow legally sound reasons to deny applicants do to their persistant historys, maintained by companies like ACI, Cavalry Port, Equifax, etc, etc.

Although my friend would like to ignore the credit reports, the reality is that it does not make good business sense to rent to people that have lied, or otherwise made mistatements. It's all about the business sense of renting to an honest, hard working, ethically sound person, vs one of the millions of self centered, irresponsible consumers that seem to think that buying diamonds on credit and then skipping out is an ok thing to do.

In today's society, ehtics seems to be a lost trait, because people seem to think honesty will put them at a disadvantage.

When I was in the Software Industry, I was responsible for reviewing resume's for subsequent interviews and employment. I have personally interviewed over 800 people in my previous career, and have been responsible for them getting a job or not.

Until someone holds this responsibility in their own hands, I don't anyone can imagine how many liars, manpipulators and frauds exists in society, and that was over 8 years ago. I can only imagine that it has gotten worse since then.

I have seen people get hired who sailed through the interview process at every level, only to turn into a mushroom as soon as they were assigned a cubicle. It's just too hard to fully evaluate someone with 100% certainty, so that's why Credit Checks are now becoming standard fare, since the economic tracking system is much more advanced than anything else, and that should serve as a warning for all of us.

I have not worked for anyone other than myself for 6 years. You can call me unemployed, but I work very hard for myself. I pay myself first, and I devote my flexible time schedule to educating myself and taking note of current trends, which leads me to focus on more strategic goals. I earn no money, and I spend very little, yet I am able to provide for myself on just about every level, from food, water and shelter, to self education and health care. The amount of time gained from retreating from the Fraud of the rat race allows an individual to discover older patterns of life that are consistentl swept out of society by the Mass Media and the Corporate Educational system.

I have turned my focus into a broad spectrum of knowledge and skills that allow me to perform many roles, and this allows a great deal of interdisciplinary sharing when approaching a problem and applying solutions. I doubt if I will ever work for a company like Intel ever again, although I would excel in that role. Instead, I'm having a blast working on the things that interest me and make my life better, which indirectly benefits others if they are able to see it.

As far as the YouTube thing. The Application is Called Silverlight. It went gold July 9th, 2009. I have looked into this framework, as it has been pushed for a few years now to the develope community, but I found no compelling reason to burden my system with yet another application that does what Media Player already does. It is driven by DotNet, which I really have no complaints with, but I have more or less tried to avoid force Microsoft adoption since MS Office Service Pack 3 destroyed the Microsoft Office Document Imaging Viewer to the point of inoperability with over 2 years of Microsft Document Imaging files I have created over the past several years. They just removed functionality, broke the viewer, and then claimed it was for security reason, yet were never able to explain exactly what the reasons were, or why their one supposed workaround is not for the Issue that crashes the viewer.

Microsoft now uses the General Motors philosphy of Planned Obsolescence, and I disagree and remain loyal to the stuff that's proven and works.. For christ sakes, even Microsoft knows that 95% of the functionality in Word or Excel is never used....

Yet, we have forced upgrades and redesign shoved down our throats every year or two. It's total make work, bullshit. How many Word n.0 to Latest version convertors do we need?

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mudplanet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-16-09 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. the business sense of renting to an honest, hard working, ethically sound person
So, if you work for twenty years, pay all your bills faithfully, do your best to be honest and tell the truth, but

then you get sick. You don't even know how ill you are for a couple of years. You eventually can't even work for the seven eleven, because they do drug tests, and you take drugs. Drugs that are prescribed by your doctor. And you doctor tells you that it's illegal for them to discriminate because of this, but everybody in the mental health community knows they do this and knows clients that have suffered from discrimination because of this. So you reach a point at which you can't pay your bills, can't pay the rent, can't even place a classified ad to sell your car (and then come down with tardive dyskenesia and can't walk or talk for two months).

Three years later and you have made terrific progress. The dyskenesia hardly comes back at all. You feel you're ready to return to work. But your credit stinks. You're on Medicare but you still can't pay the copay because you live on SSDI. Your credit report stinks, and that means you're a "self centered, irresponsible consumer" that just couldn't put off buying diamonds that you couldn't afford.

This is just one example of why using a credit report to evaluate a person as a potential employee is not only unfair, it's just plain wrong. Lots of folks that worked hard and are as honest as Abe Lincoln have been thrown out of work and are now unable to pay their bills and HR folks are now evaluating them as "self centered, irresponsible consumers" that just couldn't put off buying diamonds that they couldn't afford.

Your argument might have a lot more credibility if not for the fact that the whole point of incorporation is to eliminate personal liability for business people, so, if necessary, they could get out of debts they'd incurred in the process of making money for themselves without any personal penalty.

A lot of people with bad credit are irresponsible and self-centered. I'd argue that a lot of people with good credit are even more self-centered (witness HR folks that work for corporations and deny folks the ability to earn a living because "it might be a bad risk for me"). What the fuck does credit have to do with being self centered?

I'm glad things have gone so well with you. You've worked hard, acted responsibly, saved your money. I hope you don't get sick tomorrow, 'cause all that 'other centered' behavior will be for naught when some asshole looks at your credit report.

The only thing credit ratings should be used for is to evaluate someone as a risk for a loan, and even then, if the loan is for a car or real estate, it's collateralized and the property actually belongs to the lender so credit is largely irrelevant.

"I'm having a blast working on the things that interest me and make my life better, which indirectly benefits others if they are able to see it." If only we were able to appreciate your brilliance.

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