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White House says U.S. needs H-1B visas to avoid 'competitive disadvantage'

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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 10:35 AM
Original message
White House says U.S. needs H-1B visas to avoid 'competitive disadvantage'
Obama administration defends H1-B rule in lawsuit challenging 2008 Bush ruling on visas

April 3, 2009 (Computerworld) President Barack Obama has so far reversed a number of actions taken by President George W. Bush -- on embryonic stem cell research, species protection and medical research -- but his administration has so far shown no interest in reversing a Bush-approved rule that has drawn the ire of H-1B opponents.

The Bush administration's move to increase the amount of time foreign nationals with engineering, science and other technical degrees can work in the U.S. on student visas from one year to 29 months prompted a lawsuit that was filed last May by the Programmers Guild, the American Engineering Assn. Inc., Bright Future Jobs, and a number of technology workers.

The lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Newark, N.J., argued that the ruling was in fact a back door increase in the cap on H-1B visas. The lower court rejected the case, which the group is now appealing before the Third Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia.

In a filing with the appeals court late last month, the Obama administration offered a defense of the H-1B visa program while repeating many of the same arguments used by the Bush administration in defending the ruling in the initial case. "The inability of U.S. employers, particularly in the fields of science, technology, engineering and mathematics, to obtain H-1B status for highly skilled foreign students and foreign nonimmigrant workers has adversely affected the ability of U.S employers to recruit and retain skilled worker and creates a competitive disadvantage for U.S. companies," the government argued.

The filing if the first public statement by the Obama administration about the controversial H-1B visa program. "All we have seen from Obama about looking out for the interest of U.S. workers is talk -- still waiting for the change," said John Miano, the founder of the Summit, N.J.-based Programmers Guild.

The Programmers Guild lawsuit contends that the student visa extension would exacerbate problems already created by the H-1B visa for U.S. workers in the science, technical and engineering fields -- including job losses and wage pressures through a "a rule that creates more direct competitors for them by increasing the number of foreign workers" competing for jobs.


New Jersey U.S. District Court Judge Faith Hochberg, who heard the initial case, did not rule on the merits of the H-1B program, but instead argued that the opponents of the Bush action couldn't legally challenge the case because they weren't directly affected by the rule change. Oral arguments on the appeal may be heard as early as May.

The Department of Homeland Security, which oversees the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services, is arguing the case for the U.S. The new secretary of DHS, former Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano has been a supporter the H-1B visa.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9131045

So, the Obama Administration and Bush Administration are on the same page. Pathetic.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. In other words...
Paying American workers what they deserve is bad for business, given that foreign workers are willing to do the same job for 2/3 the pay. Since all the tech jobs have moved to India anyway, why bother even training Americans to the work when we can import people from India when we need workers in this country?
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UndertheOcean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. the only solution to this problem is to allow only Green Card holders to work ,
Edited on Fri Apr-03-09 10:48 AM by UndertheOcean
Green card holders are not tied to a single employer , they are harder to exploit.

So if a company absolutely needs this brilliant Ph.D. from India to be competitive , let them PAY to sponsor him/her for citizenship , instead of exploiting them and creating a race to the button.


A short term solution is to limit H1-B applicants to Ph.D. holders , since they are so few of them . You absolutely don't need to import a B.Sc. or Masters from another country to stay competitive.


of course , some people with an Anti-skilled immigration agenda won't even accept that.

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Chisox08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. I don't have a Anti-skilled immigration agenda
I have a Anti-skilled Americans not being able to find a job agenda.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. Please don't feed the trolls.










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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Great graphics, very cute.
nt
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 08:29 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. I love it!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 09:06 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. ROFL...Excellent! n/t
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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 10:48 AM
Response to Original message
3. "More of the same...." n/t
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ihavenobias Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. I don't get it, what's the big deal?
You're acting like the unemployment rate is high or something?

;)
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BobRossi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
5. Bullshit!
Why does Obama hate American workers? First he attacks the autoworkers, now it's software engineers. This is nothing short of killing the middle class.

Fuck the DLC!
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
6. Just two days ago there was a post here about this.
Wachovia and Bank of America were making employees in Charlotte train their H1B replacements.

I'm sure glad they got all of that bailout money from us suckers.

I've got to send the IRS a check next week. Should I make it out to AIG or Goldman Sachs, and just cut out the middle man?
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. You should find this thread to be of interest.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Dang...
<snip>Obama opposes outsourcing of jobs
Agencies Posted: Jun 28, 2008 at 1133 hrs

Washington, June 28: Taking a tough stand against outsourcing, the presumptive Democratic nominee Senator Barack Obama said that the choice is between giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas or give benefit to those corporations that keep jobs domestically.
"We can keep giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas, or we can give tax benefits to companies that invest right here in New Hampshire," Senator Obama said at a joint appearance with Senator Hillary Clinton in Unity, New Hampshire.

"We can have a tax code that rewards wealth and hands out billions of dollars more to big corporations and multimillionaires. Or we can provide a USD 1,000 tax cut to 95 per cent of families in America, start rewarding work and not just wealth, and eliminate income taxes for seniors making USD 50,000 a year or less," Obama said, adding that's an agenda for change that we can believe in. That's the choice that we can make in this election.

"We can allow millions of Americans to work full-time but still not make enough to support their families, or we can raise the minimum wage, index it to inflation, and ensure that hard work pays off in America," the Illinois Senator said.
http://www.expressindia.com/story_print.php?storyId=328...
___________

Obama vows to stop outsourcing, India Inc irked
started by TruthSeeker 7 mnths ago

Washington/New Delhi: In remarks that are bound to raise hackles in India, Barack Obama made a strong anti-outsourcing pitch after securing the Democratic Presidential nomination vowing to end tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas if elected to office.



Playing to the gallery on the hot button issue of outsourcing in his acceptance speech, Obama kept up with the rhetoric on the subject that has been a staple of Democratic campaigning and went on to spell out what he would do as President on the front.



"Unlike John McCain, I will stop giving tax breaks to companies that ship jobs overseas, and I will start giving them to companies that create good jobs right here in America," said Obama, who has been fiercely opposing outsourcing.

Source: http://www.ibnlive.com/news/obama-vows-to-stop-outsourc...
_____________

Obama vows to award US cos that stop outsourcing
Agencies
Posted online: Sep 04, 2008 at 1250 hrs

Washington, September 4:US Presidential hopeful Barack Obama once again touched on the ticklish issue of outsourcing and while vowing to end tax breaks to companies that ship works overseas conceded that all lost jobs could not be redeemed.

Promising to retain as well as create more jobs for the Americans, the Democratic nominee said while all lost jobs cannot be redeemed, further movement can be halted by giving incentives to companies investing in the country.

"Not all jobs that have left are going to come back. We can stop some of them that are already leaving by stopping to give tax breaks to companies that are shipping jobs overseas and saving those tax breaks for investing in plants and equipment right here in the US," Obama said at a campaign stop in Ohio.

http://www.financialexpress.com/printer/news/357238 /
______________________

Outsourcing critics worry about Obama advisors

By Krishna Kumar V. E.
December 10, 2008


Outsourcing critics worry about Obama advisors

Critics of outsourcing who saw in Barack Obama their saviour, are now worried that the President-elect of United States may tone down his commitment to stop sending jobs offshore because of pressure from his advisors.

Noted Wall Street Journal writer William J. Bulkely believes that the reason for such a meltdown in Obama’s position could be that as many as 17 members of his transition economic advisory board are corporate honchos who have a long history of outsourcing.

Bulkely quotes Ron Hira of the Rochester Institute of Technology and author of the famous book ‘Outsourcing America’ as saying that the Obama team is yet to take up the issue of white-collar outsourcing very seriously.

The President-elect had promised to stop tax breaks to companies that shifted jobs overseas, a position that he still holds but could be forced to change giving the diverse opinions held by members of his transition team.

The blog says that almost every member of the advisory board that has been involved in corporate America has been connected to outsourcing. The author goes on to say that the companies where these advisors worked earlier are refusing to comment now.
http://www.bpowatchindia.com/bpo_news/obama_outsourcing...

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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. Oh boy...
:(
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
31. Great idea, Dr. Phool. Maybe we could start a movement to do just that.
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ChromeFoundry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
7. Enjoy your SINGLE-TERM
so far, this administration has by-and-large, said "fuck you" to the American worker when it comes to offshore outsourcing, protecting jobs, and the importation of low-cost worker alternatives. This is proving to be a "more of the same" administration in regard to these issues.

I really liked the idea another DUer offered on a different thread. "NASCAR-like" lobbyist patches for all elected officials. I want to know how much our government is being influenced by Indian corporations.

Thanks, DLC... this party will now lose every gain that has been made over the past four years.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. Obama said he would not run again if his policies failed.
I wonder if he was engaging in a moment of naivety for political opponents to take advantage of, or if he was doing a "CYA".

I want to know how many other countries' lobbyists and corporations affect our government. India likely plays a significant role, but they are not the only country to be taking advantage.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. Obama is fully owned by Wall Street. He's giving away the treasury to folks in other nations who own
our banks and stocks and won't give any incentives to skilled Americans to do our jobs.
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ardvark Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. bailouts going to foreign banks, and protecting jobs for foreign workers
what the heck do we need a military for?

any foreign interest can have whatever they want, with a trip to K street

why would any foreign interest risk hurting itself with military actions?
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. You hit that nail on the head, ardvark. (nt)
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ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
37. Don't forget, in addition to Wall Street, The Pentagon owns his ass ...
Edited on Sat Apr-04-09 04:36 PM by ShortnFiery
Continuing TWO illegal and immoral Occupations of Sovereign Nations. :thumbsdown:
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
10. This REALLY sucks....The H-1B visa program was brought in with the
Edited on Fri Apr-03-09 11:39 AM by whathehell
STATED goal of finding a FEW foreign specialists who had skills they couldn't find in America, but as former Sec. of Labor Robert Reich said "It's fraught with abuse"..and so it is.
I believe it was brought in during Poppy Bush's term, but Clinton renewed it at least once.

One fo the VERY best books to read that deals with these visas is "America: Who stole the Dream"?

It was written by two pulitzer prize winning journalists named Barlett and Steele...It's about $10 in paperback and it's mind blowing.

I hope the damn lawsuit WINS..I'm so tired of so-called "democrats" selling us out.
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Feed the Greedy
and they make shit.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Not consistently, but definitely enough reality behind the comment for it to have some merit.
I dropped Vista right enough and I certainly won't be giving Office 14 any consideration.
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Grinchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. H1-B is Clinton's baby, and he dare not touch that or feel the wrath.
Of course, after losing a career of 25 years, I left it never to turn back.

When one gets back to reality, out in the sunshine, in the fresh air, returning to the interminable time sink that is a requirement of the Software Industry, it is very difficult to see any allure in returning. However, it is kind of irksome when you see the quality of software decreasing steadily as complexity increases to the point where the H1-B's just throw up their hands and walk away.

Additionally, the software industry likes to reinvent itslef and its programming paradigms every year or two, cause massive rewrites of old software, which does nothing to promote the science. All the good stuff is bought out by the Military, CIA and the Corporations for their benefit, while we get the latest automatic download of ringtones on the Cell Phone Doo-Dad of the quarter.

I used to be an early adopter and innovator, but it's gone too far. We now have an industry based on the GM model of planned obsolescence, so now I maintain a quiver of old, functional software running on old, functional Operating Systems. I have no need for Vista or any other software the puts lipstick on a pig.

The latest move by Microsoft for a forced upgrade to Vista was a complete failure, and at this point they are trying to kill Windows XP for good by rewriting everything so it doesn't work. A good example was Microsft Office Document Imaging (MODI). Microsoft, in it's wisdom, decided to break this software during a "Service Pack". They used security concerns to basically disable the software and render it useless. Despite hundreds of thousands of documents encoded this way, they quietly abandoned it, and never adequately responded to the large numbers of people that had been using this feature for years.

Thats the last straw for me in regards to Microsoft. I will avoid their software forever, and make do with what I can write on existing OS's, Applications and development tools.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
16. "competitive disadvantage" seems to be other countries using lower costs and nothing else to lure
contracts.

That makes us disadvantaged, and it does seem to be having an effect on our economy too.

I'm not surprised, as Candidate Obama had talked about this in October 2007. Between then and now, he seemed to act as if he knew and understood the problems.

Is he bought? Is he naive? Does this have any reflection from the G20, which has pics of 19 of the 20 really happy (Hu seemed to be a bit upset in the pics with his visage in them). Is there something that will save US workers?

I'm wholly confused at this point.
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #16
25. I'm pretty sure we'll have acquired a competitive advantage once....
American workers start making less than those in Hunan Province, the People's Republic.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. Yet these countries are able to prosper on those wages; their people leaving poverty.
That I'm not complaining against.

If the wages being paid in other countries are allowing them to build their countries, it seems the cost of living in America is what's holding us back. And if that drops, those CEOs "earning" 800x the wage of the common worker will be losing their incomes too.

They call it "globalization". Let's make it properly global instead of this skewed nonsense.

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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Since the 1970s Americans' productivity has vastly increased....
and while CEO salaries have gone through the roof, most Americans' pay increases have not kept pace at all, and that comes contrary to all economic theory. Democrats here haven't exactly been stellar about pushing for increased unionization, universal healthcare, or even the minimum wage, and a great many (Clinton and Gore notably) have been keen on free trade with few provisions for workers' rights. Of course, if workers in other countries made more, they'd be able to buy more from us, too, so we have a stake in that as well.

I'm a lefty on social and economic issues alike, and will despite misgivings vote for a socially liberal Democratic president who's mediocre on economic matters, because I don't want warmongering, neanderthals on the Supreme Court, and all sorts of retrograde social legislation. But, many working class Americans are not so devoted to social liberalism, and besides doing the wrong thing in principle, Democrats who ignore their economic concerns will find that they have a short tenure in power.
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
20. He really needs to be called out on this...Rachel and Keith should be talking
to the Programmers Guild
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I've emailed Keith on various occasions in the past....
and it seems he doesn't want to touch much in the way of economics. :shrug:
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burning rain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Recently he was quite good, and adequately critical,......
of the president's very different treatment of the auto industry and Wall Street. So keep up the good work. :hi:
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. I wasn't aware of that....
I honestly haven't had a chance lately to watch him or Rachel. Thanks for the heads up. I've got more writing to do now. :hi:
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-03-09 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. Yep...I can believe that...Corporate masters and all that stuff...
I don't blame him...I believe he does what he's able.
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ardvark Donating Member (156 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
34. LOL - Rachel and Keith wont touch this - it's a media blackout issue
unless they have a piece on 'innovation' and 'competativeness', with 'Compete America' as a guest - no joke

H-1b issue taught me more about the media than i ever wanted to know :(

raw Orwells 1984 on h-1 issue
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Very weird, to be sure.
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bertman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-04-09 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
32. It must really piss off those political candidates who WIN after making all those campagin
promises that you party-poopers won't let them forget when they ignore those very promises after they're elected.

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