== How to abandon your God = By Mark Morford

[madokie]

Is it OK to switch religions, change denominations, even split from God entirely? Jesus says: Sure!

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/03/05/notes030508.DTL&nl=fix

This much we know: God is failing.

Or more accurately, God is mutating. Changing. In flux. Becoming perhaps slightly less appealing as a dogmatic force of rigid closed-minded sit-down-and-shut-up paternal scowling and becoming perhaps more fluid, interesting, dynamic, unspecified, something you actually want to take into your heart and into your mouth and lick until you find the rich, creamy center and then define that taste for yourself, blissfully independent of what your parents or priest or president tells you, until you reach that point of deeper knowing where you can't help but go a-ha.

It's all part of that big new study from the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life, released just recently and ripe and ready to be spun a thousand different ways, the one that contains the big whopper of a statistic that says 28 percent of Americans have abandoned the religion they grew up with and have taken up another one, or none at all, or maybe more than one because polytheism certainly sounds tasty and, you know, what the hell, right?

It's not really all that shocking. People change religions. People swap denominations. People evolve, go to college, learn to think (and seek meaning) for themselves, change their minds or marry someone of a different belief or go through a personal revelation, or actually experience the spiritual/intellectual epiphany that reveals how all religions are one and God is not "out there" and you are not here to be its meek sinful guilty mindless servant. ...

[Hugabear]

1. People should outgrow the belief in God, just like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy

It's amazing that so many people in educated societies can still cling to a belief in some supernatural bearded guy in the sky.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. Don't you think religious beliefs are evolving, though?

And evolution doesn't happen overnight. But in my lifetime at least, I've seen beliefs about God change and evolve. Even my Methodist brother doesn't see God as a "bearded guy in the sky" but closer to the Native American concept of "Great Mystery"--that which I cannot know and comprehend, but That which I feel is there. And the Hindu concept of Brahmin as being All in All--and the concept of the Real Human Being.

And then there's my dear Unitarian mom's idea that she will never know, and who is, after 90 years, content with that.

[ThomWV]

7. If a delusion evolves is it any less of a delusion?

[lynnertic]

10. And what great authority are you to say what's delusional?

[DavidDvorkin]

11. Believing in the existence of God despite complete lack of evidence

is delusional.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

13. but again it depends upon your definition of God

mine is that God is all matter, all laws of nature, all things that have been discovered and is yet to be discovered. I think there is a lot of evidence for this. :)

[DavidDvorkin]

17. Okay, if you make it that general

But then you're just saying that you believe the universe exists.

If you ascribe some sort of consciousness to it, then you're back to the same delusion. If you don't ascribe consciousness to it, then why bother calling it God? It's just the universe.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

18. but what is consciousness really?

Do we have one, or is it merely an illusion? If you say we have one, who is to say that other organisms don't? And if organisms have them, and we're just finding this out, what about other things as well? Do we really know? That is the Great Mystery.

[DavidDvorkin]

19. That's so vague that is has no meaning to me

One can ask if the universe has some sort of consciousness, but that's just a question, not the Great Mystery. It's a question we may or may not be able to answer in the future. For now, we have no reason to assume that the answer is yes. Vague, idle speculation is not evidence for anything.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

20. Your view, of course

but you mean to say to me that you do see your own consciousness as being vague?

What about studies that seem to indicate that other species, such as dolphins, have language? Does that imply consciousness?

[DavidDvorkin]

21. I didn't say that consciousness is vague

It's the contention that the universe has consciousness that's vague.

Studies about possible language use in other species constitute the kind of data that's missing in claims that the universe has consciousness.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

22. Ah

I didn't understand your reply, and thought you felt the entire concept of consciousness at any level was vague.

[DavidDvorkin]

23. Only on Monday mornings :)

[lynnertic]

25. vehement disbeleif in the existence of something just because you can't quantify it yet

is the height of arrogance and stupidity.

[Harry Monroe]

26. That's why it's called "faith"

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. You mean concepts of things cannot evolve?

My concept of God is that God is everything--every particle, every molecule, the laws of nature, all things--are you saying, then, that all these things are delusional? Are you perhaps referring to the concept of Maya?

[groovedaddy]

2. I always liked the Quakers for just that reason...

In my heart, I know there is "something" greater than we humans...The Quakers, at least the meetings I've gone to, were not trying to convince me to believe anything in particular about what I and others felt. It always seemed to be a "find it for yourself" type attitude.

The existing power structure depends upon religion to keep people in line or to play the divide and conquer game (how many justify the killing of others because their god told them to - i.e. Bush?). Some people of a religious bent are willing to challenge the power structure in the name of justice. At least we still have some semblance of freedom of religion here. If that one goes away, the Republic is gone.

[madokie]

3. Yes I agree with you

I live my life as if there is a supreme being but with the realization that there is no gold streets in the here after for me to stroll down. Knowing that living the good and honest life has it rewards here on this world. Enough inticement for me to want to do the right thing today and tomorrow. I'm just glad I'm still free to believe what I want.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

5. yes, the Quakers have the right idea, I think

for a spiritual journey is one that is individual and also unique--far be it for me or anyone to judge your spiritual quest, or to try and make you see things the way I do. The best we can do is to be there to help, which often comes in the form of silent communion.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. What humanity is outgrowing is their God concepts

As Sufi Inayat Khan said, "Shatter your ideals on the rock of Truth"--the true nature of God is not found in concepts of God but in experience. The closest concept I have found so far in my journey is to say that God is everything and more---so to deny God is the same as denying that there is air, atoms, laws of gravity, emotions, and clouds.

[elehhhhna]

8. "God" is a mystery. That's why she's so interesting.

[groovedaddy]

9. Yes, I have fallen in love with her mysterious allure...n.t

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

15. Wahkan Tahkan

the Lakota term for THAT is translated as "Great Mystery". I love it in that it is gender free--and yet all genders.

[pingzing58]

12. Organized religions are out of touch with the people.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

16. This is very true

what I see happening is more and more people falling away from organized religions and following their individual spiritual paths. I think those esoteric schools that aid an individual on their journey will continue to thrive, since they don't impose a lot of dogma, and the seeker is free to forge their own way.

[provis99]

24. in other words, a lot of Eastern spiritualism mumbo-jumbo

If you can't be religious, just lapse into incoherency, I guess. Mysticism doesn't do it for me either.