The Outcome of Wanting (Gay) Sex

[marmar]

from New American Media, via AlterNet:


The Outcome of Wanting (Gay) Sex

By Sandip Roy, New America Media. Posted September 5, 2007.


Few mourned the downfall of Sen. Larry Craig. But what exactly did he do that was so wrong? And what kind of precedent has it set?


SAN FRANCISCO -- I come to defend Larry Craig, not to bury him. He is a homophobe and a hypocrite. He is a holier-than-thou Senator with feet of toilet paper. But Larry Craig has been forced to resign his seat for all the wrong reasons.

Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell called Craig's conduct "unforgivable." Et tu Brute! Then falls Craig.

As far as I can make out from the audiotapes released between Craig and Sgt. Dave Karsnia, Larry Craig did not have sex with the police officer. Larry Craig did not expose himself a la George Michael. Larry Craig did not offer Dave Karsnia any money to have sex with him. Larry Craig didn't verbally ask Dave Karsnia to have sex with him.

Even taking the officer, described by MSNBC as a "compassionate man with diligent work ethics" at his word, all the senator did was stare at him through a crack in the toilet stall, tapped his shoe, touched his neighbor's foot and passed his hand underneath the stall in what is apparently some time-honored gay mating ritual.

So adding all of that up, all I can get is Larry Craig might have wanted to have sex with Dave Karsnia. Perhaps right there in the bathroom. Perhaps in a hotel room somewhere. And that is what Mitch McConnell calls "unforgivable."

If one person hitting on another person in a public place is a crime, then every singles bar in the country on a Friday night where shoe tapping does often occur is a hotspot of unforgivable crimes. It is America's stunning prudery that just the thought, the desire to have (gay) sex has been criminalized so that this man is blackballed, ostracized and forced to resign. .....(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/story/61643/

[pocoloco]

1. The asshole must not have any kids that use a

public bathroom!

[endarkenment]

2. there were no minors involved in this incident.

But minors get hit on all the time in public places.

The hypocrisy swirls in all directions surrounding the Craig scandal.

[YOY]

3. The author obviously doesn't understand

"If one person hitting on another person in a public place is a crime, then every singles bar in the country on a Friday night where shoe tapping does often occur is a hotspot of unforgivable crimes. "

No dude. We're talking about f***ing in a public bathroom. Not a single's bar. Not striking up a conversation on the street and taking someone home. Not meeting someone on the internet and shacking up in a motel. We're talking about hot sex in the place where most people (and their kids) come to leave some lincoln logs or drain the lizard.

We're also talking about a guy who has a pretty nasty voting record for a gay man.

[endarkenment]

5. The poster obviously can't read.

Craig was not arrested for fucking anyone in a bathroom. The OP's post addressed the hypocrisy.

[Laughing Mirror]

7. Are we talking about f'ing in a public bathroom room or cruising a public men's room?

There was no fucking. Not even a kiss.

Intriguing that this particular Minnepolis airport men's room was reputed to be the hottest ticket for male cruisers in the state of Minnesota, and also that the airport police themselves are involved in bringing in men looking for sex in that men's room thanks to ads the police were placing online on male cruising sites.

[YOY]

8. He did so in a Union Station restroom at one point in time according to several sources

He was cruising for a tearoom screw in Minnepolis just as he did in DC. He just never got to the deed. And cruising basically leads (according to gay friends' comments) to f***ing in the bathroom.

[endarkenment]

9. according to several sources

monkeys regularly fly out of your ass. Craig was not arrested for having sex in public.

[Laughing Mirror]

10. Yes and he wasn't busted for it at Union Station

Union Station, so far as I know, does not employ undercover cops to entrap same-sexe patrons either cruising or going at it.

Fucking in a bathroom. Bathing in a bathroom. Is beating off alone in a stall with the door closed acceptable to you?

[YOY]

12. No it is not acceptable. Bathing is somewhat.

F***ing in a bathroom is beyond inconsiderate, illegal, and highly unsanitary. Straight or gay.

Whay are you trying to defend this? I mean what's your angle here? Is is a "Sex is not taboo" thing? Is it a 'gay culture' thing? I'm serious here. Why the defense of this behavior?

[Laughing Mirror]

15. It looks to be that the US is turning into a police state

Using the police to control something that what used to be called a victimless crime when there were sodomy laws. What's the excuse now that same sex acts are no longer a crime. Has the crime become cruising?

I don't see how arresting people for cruising is the way to stop same-sex sex in public private spaces. There must be much better ways.

[YOY]

17. I rather agree to some level, but not in full.

I've been hit on by a gay friend and I wasn't offended. Rather, I was kinda flattered, but there is something about the restroom that makes it gross. Why is tough to put a finger on? Is it that it smells like feces and urine and more often is hardly clean than less that I and others find the notion of sex in such an environment disgusting? Is it that the toilet is someplace that many come to do one thing and one thing alone? Is it that kids use the restroom (yes, rip on the "think of the children" mentality...but do you really want kids to think that this is what gay men are all and only about?)? I like to think of my gay and lesbian friends as not being two dimensional people with standards and I hope to raise my children to believe that.

Bottom line bathroom sex is hardly a felony, but it is against the law , pretty inconsiderate, and really unsanitary regardless of what kind of sex is happening there. Straight or gay.

We're not talking about the disgusting barbaric "sodomy laws" per se, but lewd misconduct and sex in public places.

[Laughing Mirror]

18. Since you're from DC, this WaPost 1961 editorial might interest you

DC Park Police busted Metropolitan undercover police "cruising" Lafayette Park in front of White House.



http://www.sodomylaws.org/usa/dc/dceditorials08.htm

[Prophet 451]

4. HE. BROKE. THE. LAW.

Let's make it abundently clear: I couldn't give a damn whether Senator Craig wants to suck cock in the privacy of his home or, to be honest, in a public restroom but the latter is illegal and, for a man with a shitty record on gay rights, massively hypocritical and THAT I do care about.

If shagging in public bathrooms was legal, no problem but it isn't. Therefore, a senator (and especially one who demonised Bill Clinton for having his johnson sucked in the comparative privacy of teh Oval Office) must be treated the same as any of us would be if we were booked for the same crime. It's called the rule of law, I know the 'Pubs have problems with the concept.

[endarkenment]

6. Read the post.

Craig was not arrested for 'shagging in public bathrooms'.

[yellowcanine]

16. I have mixed feelings on this. I think Craig got pretty much what he deserved, given the rank

hypocrisy. OTOH I would just as soon not have cute cops sitting in bathroom stalls waiting to see what transpires. Pretty close to entrapment, imo. If a cop on patrol finds two guys shagging each other in a public bathroom - ok - that is public indecency and they should be arrested and charged. But that is not what happened in this case - although there is no doubt in my mind that Craig wanted to have some kind of sexual activity then and there - intent is kind of hard to prove and I suspect had he not copped the guilty plea he would have beat the rap. In fact I suspect many prosecutors would have declined to prosecute. There just isn't enough hard (sorry) evidence there that a crime was committed. Craig copped the plea because he stupidly thought by doing so it would not become public information.

[xchrom]

11. think of the children!!!

:rofl:

i may have that engraved on my tombstone.

[Laughing Mirror]

13. The straight children, maybe?

For years, when I was a little boy in the 1960s using the six-floor men's room of the department store my mother or my aunt would take me to downtown, I puzzled over why those shopping bags placed on the floor behind closed toilet stalls would be moving around, seemingly autonomously. Were there Mexican jumping beans in those bags, I wondered? What was it that made those bags move around?

It was only much later, in my teens, when I happened into that Woodward & Lothrop department store men's room downtown again and saw the bags were still there, still moving, did I realize the answer to that childhood puzzle.

[xchrom]

14. lol -- what a great story that is.

i love that.

[2beToby]

19. I don't really care about the hypocrisy...

You know, his hypocrisy doesn't really irk me. He's a closet case who believes he has to fight his "urges" and that everyone else should too. Hell, I've met more than one woman who believe women shouldn't have the right to vote!!! How backwards is that?! People can be something and still think that it's wrong. Hypocritical? Big deal. What bothers me is that he lies about it. Liars piss me off.

I'm a gay guy, and in truth, I've NEVER heard of someone trying to pick someone up in a bathroom by tapping their foot or putting their hand under the stall. If someone ever did that while I was in a bathroom, I'd be thoroughly creeped out. Even before I heard about this.

How is this not some sort of sexual harassment? If I were at a bar and somebody, without saying a word came up, and started tapping their feet and putting their foot on mine, I'd move and be pretty freaked out. If they did it in a place where I couldn't go anywhere to get away (eg a bathroom stall) I'd call a cop. Who thinks this is acceptable behavior? I wouldn't want this happening to me, much less my young son.

Yes, it should absolutely be a crime to proposition someone in a way that makes them thoroughly uncomfortable when they are in a vulnerable position. In a bathroom with your pants down qualifies as a vulnerable position. It's already a crime to lie to the court. So either he shouldn't have plead guilty to begin with, or he shouldn't be denying it now. So let him be strung up for lying.