The Unending H1B Saga (Interesting Read)

[OhioChick]

Aug 21, 2007

Like tossing a lit cigarette out the window onto a bit of dry California brush, some subjects are consistently inflammatory for engineers. If career issues always spark excited commentary, discussion about H-1B visas are like pouring gasoline on a wildfire.

The ACM and IEEE claim that enrollments in CS and EE curricula are falling precipitously. Yet readers respond that those organizations are fronts for industry; that cries of looming shortages are the tools of fat-cat employers to flood the market with cheap imported labor and drive salaries down. Is that paranoia or does it show a firm grasp of market dynamics?

Others respond that any idiot can see there's no shortage. "Just look at all of the unemployed engineers I know!" Unemployed friends and relatives make for powerful personal imagery, but just as a single cold or hot day says nothing meaningful about the global warming shoutfest, local and personal anecdotes are tragic but not statistically-significant. The IEEE says there's practically full employment, but those who think they're a shill for industry won't believe them.

What about salaries? Simple supply and demand mandates that a shortage will be accompanied by rising salaries, which recent surveys suggest merely mirror cost of living increases, if that. The paranoid—or, maybe those with that firm grasp of market dynamics—will note that recent increases in H-1B visas could be controlling salary increases. As will exporting work to low-wage countries, a trend that certainly continues to grow.

Data is abundant but is shaded with agendas. I tend to believe some of the IEEE/ACM data about college enrollments since it correlates with much I hear from those in academia. It appears " to me, at least—that there will be a negative bubble of engineers and computer scientists in the near future as we start to graduate plenty of hamburger-flippers but fewer EE and CS people.

But is there a shortage today? I think the evidence for that is sparse. However, there's little doubt that many companies are lobbying Congress to expand the H-1B visa program, either to fulfill what they perceive is a very real need or to drive down engineering costs.

One of the best summaries of myths and facts surrounding the H-1B program appeared recently in Information Week. For instance, did you know that about a third of Microsoft's US workers are here under some sort of visa assistance? Or that slime-sucking legal firms offer programs teaching employers how to manipulate the law to avoid hiring those pesky taxpaying U.S. citizens (see youTube video)? This country has traditionally embraced new citizens from all corners of the world, enriching our culture beyond measure. Most of us come from immigrant families, whether recently or generations ago. But we cannot allow immigration policy to be dictated by corporate greed rather than an ethical standard that balances the many tradeoffs.

I'd sure like to see an H-1B debate that's grounded, first, in what's best for the national interest and that secondly addresses near-term practical issues. Actually, that would be a nice way to frame any of the myriad issues facing Congress. Instead, we can be sure that they will continue to do anything that courts big donors and panders to the (often manufactured) fears of the electorate.

What do you think? Is there a genuine shortage of engineers in the US or are companies manipulating Congress to get cheaper labor?

http://www.eetasia.com/ARTICLES/2007AUG/C/2007AUG_BRK_WK3.HTM

[bemildred]

1. It's about cheap labor.

How gullible do you have to be to think Amurkin Bidness doesn't love cheap labor better than anything?

[tanyev]

4. 'Zackly.

My husband's entire department may be shut down in the near future, so he's been sending out some feelers. He's been told twice so far that they are looking for new graduates and that his current salary is too high to even give him an interview.

[EVDebs]

2. Maybe just a temporary respite from the shear numbers would help

The Hard Truth of Immigration
No society has a boundless capacity to accept newcomers, especially when many of them are poor or unskilled workers
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8100266/site/newsweek/

this article emphasizes the shear numbers effecting the economy while on the 'skilled' labor side it was funny to see Capital One's mortgage division, Greenpoint, just went belly-up--with 600 or so US workers losing their jobs, not to mention the Indian workers in the Bangalore 'back office' operation,

Case Study Progeon-Greenpoint outsourcing to India
http://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/articlepdf/632.pdf?CFID=33293470&CFTOKEN=68597104&jsessionid=9a306cc5b80324b383c5

...a $30 million dollar deal, down the toilet.

[comtec]

3. Cheap labor! god help us all!!!

As a tech worker, I can tell you there is no shortage of qualified Americans, but there is a shortage of decent paying jobs in the "job of tomorrow" because so many are H1B's now. The wage of a IT worker has gone WAY down, while the requirements of even a low end job have gone way up! And really low end jobs, like tier 1 phone support are gone to India, or field with students, if they are here at all!

I'm Here in The Netherlands not out of choice, but survival! The H1B program needs to be frozen, immediately, and I would dare say many of those in the last 10 years needs to be revoked completely, and the companies heavily fined for misuse of the law.

We need to punish companies that move jobs off shore and reward those that keep, or return jobs to the US continental AND pay taxes!

oh well sunny thinking here in cloudy Holland I guess.

[Robert Oak]

5. H-1Bs counted in unemployment stats

H-1B Visa holders are counted in the unemployment stats so you cannot go by that number. It's the total number of aggregate jobs
which is down Over 500k since 2001.

We have good stats and they say H-1B is a labor arbitrage vehicle and there are a series of U.S. engineers who are underemployed not in their field.

[hedgehog]

6. The one question in this entire issue that is never mentioned is

who pays for educating the engineers? If you graduate with a BS in Engineering and are an American citizen, chances are you have substantial student loans to pay off. You can't afford another two or three years of schooling to obtain an advanced degree. Other countries subsidize college level education.

Here's another problem: a typical engineer who has worked 20 years in a particular industry faces a double edged sword. He or she probably has enough specialized knowledge to qualify as a Master's or Phd. if there was a way to quantify that knowledge. At the same time, even though engineers are trained to be flexible learners, no personnel department believes that knowledge and experience is transferable from one industry to another. If you get laid off at 40 or even just want to change jobs, you're stuck.