Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers

[OhioChick]

April 4, 2007

A commonly heard defense in the arguments that surround U.S. companies that offshore high-tech and engineering jobs is that the U.S. math and science education system is not producing a sufficient number of engineers to fill a corporation's needs.

However, a new study from Duke University calls this argument bunk, stating that there is no shortage of engineers in the United States, and that offshoring is all about cost savings.

This report, entitled "Issues in Science and Technology" and published in the latest National Academy of Sciences magazine further explores the topic of engineering graduation rates of India, China and the United States, the subject of a 2005 Duke study.

In the report, concerns are raised that China is racing ahead of both the United States and India in its ability to perform basic research. It also asserts that the United States is risking losing its global edge by outsourcing critical R&D and India is falling behind by playing politics with education. Meanwhile, it considers China well-positioned for the future.

Duke's 2005 study corrected a long-heard myth about India and China graduating 12 times as many engineers as the United States, finding instead that the United States graduates a comparable number.

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2111347,00.asp

[mediaman007]

1. Sooner or later, the truth comes out...

It's all about profits! The "bean counters" today's impatient executives will bring this nation down.

[Sherman A1]

4. I wonder

just what happens when we outsource the bean counters and CEO's? Ya, think maybe then they might GET IT?: mad:

[SharonAnn]

14. Corporations just want indentured servants. Actually, slaves would be preferred.

I know that there is not a shortage of people for IT jobs in most of the areas of the country that I consult in. Employers just don't want to pay the going rate. They want somebody cheaper.

Interestingly, even if an individual manager understands that a lower paid employee might not be able to do as much work or might create problems that have to be cleaned up later, both cases being more expensive in the long term, there's no incentive to do it right.

The manager's performance rating and bonus depends on the results this quarter or this year. If the costs are shifted to next quarter or next year, they or someone else will just deal with it then.

[wakeme2008]

2. Kick and nom and a Grr for outsourced jobs

:grr:

[greenman3610]

3. it still cites the need for more

masters and phd level engineers.

I can't think of a cooler time for someone to get into
engineering/industrial design. We are ramping up to a whole new
sustainable economy.

[ChromeFoundry]

16. only problem is the debt that would be incurred

from that level of education. You'd easily rack up $100K in student loans. Quite scary if there are no jobs to choose from or are competing with foreign nationals that do not have this debt payoff starting a few months after graduation.

[formercia]

5. Just like the arms race against the Soviets

propped up by propaganda. It's just an excuse to go offshore and have plausible deniability.

[fasttense]

6. There is nothing but lies surrounding this issue of outsourcing jobs

to other countries. Glad to hear Duke get in and dig for the truth. There are so many lies swirling around on this issue, I have even seen people on DU quote the lies as if they are facts. You would think the republic party propaganda machine had their hand in this what with all the fake "common sense" lies being touted as truths. Some more information from the article:

"You had the brightest kids worrying about their jobs being outsourced. We thought, if kids at Duke were worried, then let's do a study about what's going on in education," Vivek Wadhwa, executive in residence at Duke University's master's in engineering management program and a co-author of the study, told eWEEK at the time.

"The first thing you do in a study is you look at the facts. But we couldn't find any facts. The more we dug, the more we looked, the more we discovered there were no facts," said Wadhwa."

I know what they mean. I have been hunting for real numbers (including inflation) on what the average and job specific wages are in India. There really are no good numbers out there. You can't calculate wages in India because there are no good numbers to start from. Some numbers include inflation and make it appear as if wages in India are going up. Some numbers only quote specific labor markets and tout that as proof average wages are going up.

Another interesting statement in the article:

"However, Duke's 2005 study reported serious problems with the quality of Indian and Chinese bachelor-level engineering graduates, and predicted both shortages in India and unemployment in China. The current report finds these predictions to be accurate, with China's National Reform Commission reporting that the majority of its 2006 graduates will not find work. There are also oft-heard whisperings of a engineering shortage in India, though private colleges and "finishing schools" are going far to make up for the Indian deficiencies, the report said."

The quality of the engineers seems to be a problem. All workers are not alike. And US workers are worth more.

[Canuckistanian]

12. I can vouch for the quality of Chinese engineering

I've had contact with some of them and their technical knowledge is about on par with the average technician here in Canada.

I'm a technologist myself and when we had tried to outsource some engineering to China, we had to hand-hold them them through the simplest of tasks. In the end we had to cancel some programs because they either a.) Didn't understand the process or b.) Paid no attention to the quality of work they were doing.

I don't completely fault them, though, the fact is there are no "seasoned" engineers there to help train the new generation. Production and R&D engineering is somewhat a new concept for them.

Their scientists, however, are top-notch.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. Qualification: There is a shortage of U.S. engineers who will work for less than

a living wage.

Call it what it is.

[w4rma]

8. Exactly. And to broaden that point to make a more general statement, there is a shortage of

U.S. fruit-pickers, U.S. janitors, etc. who will work for less than a living wage.

[Patiod]

9. A friend claimed "there aren't any bookkeepers out there"

he was complaining that he couldn't find a full-time bookkeeper for his small business

The problem wasn't "no bookkeepers" it was "no bookkeepers willing to work for $15,000/year"

[OhioChick]

10. What a Joke. n/t

[hootinholler]

13. Yep! Industry is alos pushing this point to get more H1B visas

There was a piece on NPR yesterday about H1B 2007 visa application acceptance being closed the second day after it opened because they were over 150,000 applications for 65,000 visas.

I work in tech as a software engineer. Wages have declined for older more experiened engineers, and risen for fresh out of school engineers. It's a weird job market.

-Hoot

[RedEarth]

11. Thanks for posting...........very interesting article......

[Virginian]

15. If they keep up the Outsourcing and H1B there WILL be a shortage.

Who wants to spend all the money and time on a major that won't net a job?

If an Engineering Degree isn't marketable, why have one?
Major in something else, but what?

[Nikia]

17. I actually knew a few engineering graduates who had trouble getting jobs

The office manager at a feed company that I temped at was a BS engineering major who could not get a job as was my aunt's husband who ended up becoming a UPS driver. The guy who held my position before I got hired in quality and food research development had worked in the production department of our company doing unskilled labor because he could not get an engineering related job after graduation. Perhaps these people limited themselves to a certain geographical area, but if there was a great engineering graduate shortage, you would have thought that they could have found positions easily.