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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 12:43 PM
Original message
Clinton, Edwards and Obama: Strike Iran
snip


Times like these require bravery. They require a fight. A fight against immoral and illegal policies. A fight against tyranny. A fight for freedom. Freedom from hatred. Freedom from occupation. Americans and the people of the Middle East deserve better than Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and Barack Obama. They deserve to live their lives without the threat of warfare and bloodshed. They deserve to live without fear.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_joshua_f_070206_clinton_2c_edwards_and.htm
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. Anyone who expects any different has not been paying attention.
This is why those candidates get press. They are corporate-approved. MHO of course. :)
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Absolutely. These are indeed "corporate approved" and stamped candidates.
n/t
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Sort of.
They get press because they are the candidates donors are giving money to, therefore they are the candidates the media feels have the best chances. Same thing you said, really. Just a slightly different mechanism. If the media was simply promoting candidates that were friendly to them, Biden would get a lot more air time than the others. MHO, too, of course. :)
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Good point!
Hmmm... maybe Biden's integrity streak is a bit wider that these folks'? ;)
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I doubt it. He's never struck me as very ethical.
He's an odd duck, though. He's more liberal on some issues, so maybe that's it. I think probably, though, he's just seen as less electable, so the corps aren't donating.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. You're probably right. n/t
:hi:
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cui bono Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. He's also not polling high enough to worry about. nt
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Biden inadvertently gave them red meat. ABC News's coverage of the DNC event
was EXCLUSIVELY on the Biden apologies. Without that, he would have gotten the same treatment as the rest of them.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. Title is a bit misleading.
Edited on Tue Feb-06-07 01:19 PM by jobycom
The only one who seemed to be encouraging a strike against Iran is Edwards. Not surprising--he was more than gung-ho in favor of invading Iraq, he was more enthusiastic than Lieberman about it, until well into the 04 primary campaign.

Clinton and Obama fell back on the old standard "No option should be taken off the table." Clearly both wanted diplomacy, but just as clearly, both were saying they would invade or bomb if they "had to."

Put this into perspective. When Hillary voted for the IWR, she made it clear she was hoping that her doing so would give Bush the power to head off a war, not giving him the authority to start a war. Her believe (naive in its trust of Bush, even though he was making promises behind the scenes he had no intention of keeping) was the same as her husband's, and as Wesley Clark's, that the only way to force Hussein to comply was to show him that he would be invaded if he did not comply. They were all fooled on whether Hussein was complying, and on Bush's intentions, but that was their motivation.

So for Clinton and Obama, saying "no option should be taken off the table" means they are willing to invade, but given (at least) Clinton's past belief, and the people she was listening to in 03, the implication is she hopes that by promising force she will force diplomatic compliance.

I don't like it. Makes me less likely to vote for them, and even less likely to vote for Edwards. But the article title is misleading, and the article makes the comments seem more firm than they were.

Long way to go until 08. These three candidates, especially, are chameleons, and will change their wording several times between now and then. Edwards went from being an extreme supporter to a complete opponent of the Iraq invasion over a couple of weeks when he saw that he was losing on the issue. He is very flexible. :)
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. True that! And I like "flexible" - nice little euphemism there.
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Tin Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Yep. Intentionally misleading - smear stuff. I'll give it a negative recommendation.
:yawn:
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. Jeez! We need LEADERSHIP, not military/industrial tagalongs.
Gore/Clark looking better every day, if only Gore will run.
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Daveparts Donating Member (854 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
11. The Never Nevers











We claim to live under a two party system yet the two parties are funded from the same coffers individual contributions to candidates running for office are insignificant. On the right side of the spectrum we have the Republicans claiming the mantle of conservatives they want a smaller government less regulation but when they say less regulation they want less fiscal regulation they favor intrusion into individual private rights. For they also claim the mantle of social conservatives the party of traditional valves, segregation discrimination and original intent of the Constitution, gosh that sounds good doesn’t it?

Original intent, the Constitution just the way the founders intended it chiseled in marble yet by the very fact of the Bill of Rights blows the concept of original intent to smithereens. The authors were wise enough to know they couldn’t foresee all eventualities so they made the document amendable and these trained lawyers know that like most every aspect of Republican politics it is a sham. Just like the abortion debate they fight the battle of when life begins “It begins at conception!” the cry yet through twelve years of Reagan Bush did they change the tax code to fit their philosophy? Did they change insurance regulations to fit their cause? In a word No, abortion is a never never.

You may talk campaign fund raise and tinker around the edges but you may never change it. It is the birdie to watch to make the children smile while you take their picture. There is no traction in changing it no upside for the party. A totally bankrupt ideology with no interest in the average American what so ever.

On the left side of the Spectrum we have the Democrats, the modern democratic party was spawned by FDR and post WW2 Democrats favor social spending to aide in building a better society and focusing on the working class American family yet through twelve years of Kennedy Johnson and control of both houses of Congress did they repeal Taft-Hartley act the biggest impediment to organized labor ever passed? For the Democrats it’s a never never they can take contributions from both sides and like abortion there is no upside to the party.

The Democrats labeled as liberal by the media yet actual liberals of the party of the past wouldn’t recognize these new liberals; Carter was as conservative as Ford Clinton was closer to Eisenhower than to Kennedy. Would Robert F Kennedy or Hubert Humphrey have signed NAFTA or GATT? So who are these new liberals was John Kerry a new liberal? Kerry voted for Clinton’s welfare reform that John Kennedy would have denounced as a draconian step back into the 19th century and JFK was a conservative Democrat. We have a party with an ideology that doesn’t match it’s politics shadow candidates running as Democrats who’s politics a more akin to Gerald Ford than JFK if Harry Truman weren’t dead this bunch would kill him. Truman pushed for single payer national health insurance in 1948 unequivocally. The Democratic hopefuls tinker around the edges with maybes and will sees but it’s a never never they suck from the same healthcare industry tit as the Republicans.

These new liberals pride themselves that they are going to increase the minimum wage after eight years and they are proud of this, neglecting to mention that it will still be three dollars an hour lower than most of European countries that also have national health care. Truman wanted to raise the minimum wage 40% after four years not 30% after eight. Gone is all talk of America having the highest standard of living in the world and we are sliding fast is it a never never?

John Edwards on Face the Nation said we have made a commitment to our seniors who have worked hard we can’t change that but when asked what about the next generation those say fifty and under Edwards begins to tap dance. This is the liberal candidate? Don’t we fifty and under work hard? Did society make a different agreement with us?
Isn’t social security a never never for democrats? Apparently not anymore working people have the choice of awful or the worse George of the Bungle insists we must make his millionaires tax relief act permanent to promote anemic growth and we must cut the growth of entitlements in the same breath. The Democrats will look at not renewing Bushes tax cuts next year and agree we must do something about entitlements.

But the ultimate never never the defense budget, we claim to be the most peace loving people on the planet but spend more on weapons than the rest of the world combined. We started down this road during the cold war the Soviet Empire was out to rule the world and impose a single party political system on it. We had to establish a huge defense industry because the Soviets would use any means to subvert us. They would use political assassinations and economic destabilization and even invasion to subvert proxy states. They wanted to impose their financial system on the states in their orbit to control them.

Since the fall of the Soviets America has bombed and used depleted uranium in Iraq (twice) Afghanistan, Kosovo, Serbia, Columbia, Kuwait we have threatened regime change on North Korea and Iran. 70% of the population opposes the war in Iraq yet the best the opposition party can do is a non-binding resolution. The administration has fabricated a crisis with Iran and no matter what you or I or the folks in Congress think or the folks in the UN think they are going through with it. We have no more voice in our government than the average Muscovite had under Brezshnev. We have become that which we sought to destroy


The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Sorry Abe, we’ve screwed it up badly
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Tom Joad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-06-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
12. Enforced orthodoxies and Iran -- read this from Glenn Greenwald, "Patriot Act..." author
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filterfish Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-07-07 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. Edwards' Iran pronouncement was carefully non-committal
Edited on Wed Feb-07-07 12:01 PM by filterfish
And he had a great opportunity to come out as a 'bomber' in Russert's interview last weekend, but stressed negotiations with Tehran instead. If he is an 'establishment' pick, he looks more dovish than either Hillary or Obama at this point.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16903253/page/2/print/1/displaymode/1098/

MR. RUSSERT: Do you think that the Bush administration is planning for a war in Iran?

SEN. EDWARDS: I don’t know. I don’t know. I hope not. I don’t know. I think that there’s a legitimate concern about Iran getting a nuclear weapon. We should be concerned about that for a lot of reasons, including the possibility that, first, that they would use it; second, that it could, could nuclearize the Middle East, the most volatile place on the planet. But what’s disturbing is that we’re not dealing with this in a smart way at all, in my judgment. Here—what we’ve got is a radical leader, Ahmadinejad, who’s bellicose in his rhetoric about America, bellicose in his rhetoric about nuclear weapons and about Israel, but he is not politically stable in his own country. He is—first of all, the political elite have largely left him, there are religious leaders who have left him. He was elected on a platform of economic reform and strengthening the middle class and lifting people out of poverty. He hasn’t done anything about any of those things. What he’s doing instead is he gives speeches and he travels around the world drawing attention to himself. And what this has done is it has begun to isolate him from his own people.

Now, what would strengthen him? A military strike by America against Iran would strengthen him. They would rally around this guy. On top of that, we would see retaliation. It’d be hard for them to get to us, except through terrorists, but they—we got 100,000-plus American men and women right next door, and there—a lot of us believe that there’s an infrastructure for retaliation if that were to happen. What—what’s much smarter for us to do, certainly now, for the time being—no American president should ever take any option off the table—but what’s smarter for us to do now is to continue to tap into this growing isolation between this radical leader and his own people.

And what should be done, in my judgment, is we ought—we ought to work with our friends in Europe. You know, actually, the banking institutions in Europe have been pretty good about being tough on Iranian banks. The governments have been less good. But we ought to put an offer of both sticks and carrots on the table. We ought to make it clear that there are things that America and the Europeans are willing to do—it’d be great if we could get the Russians and the Chinese to participate—but certainly the Europeans, they have economic leverage with Iran. And those things include making the nuclear fuel available to them, controlling the cycle—this has been offered before—but combining that with a set of economic incentives that will be very attractive to the people in, in Iran who’re already feeling an isolation from this president. And then on the stick side say, ‘But there will be consequences if you don’t give up your nuclear program. And the consequences are the economic decline that you’re seeing within your own country will be accelerated, and it will be accelerated because the bank—the banks in Europe and the European governments will not continue to do economic business with Iran.’

MR. RUSSERT: Would President Edwards allow Iran to develop a nuclear weapon?

SEN. EDWARDS: I—there’s no answer to that question at this moment. I think that it’s a—it’s a—it’s a very bad thing for Iran to get a nuclear weapon. I think we have—we have many steps in front of us that have not been used. We ought to negotiate directly with the Iranians, which has not, not been done. The things that I just talked about, I think, are the right approach in dealing with Iran. And then we’ll, we’ll see what the result is.
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