Kerry Backs Bush's $81.9 Bln War Spending Plan

[dbeach]

to think that I voted for kerry..worse is the fact tha others voted for bush..
Little honor among thieves..


"Democratic Sen. John Kerry, whose baffling explanation of votes on Iraq war funding hurt his 2004 White House bid, said on Tuesday he would back President Bush's new $81.9 billion request for Iraq and Afghanistan.
"I think we're in a very different situation," Kerry told reporters. "I'm going to vote for this ... I think this money is important to our being successful and to the completion of the process." "

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=7637317

First Bbaptist Church sign" Jesus Loves You
bush does'nt

[Pooka Fey]

1. I'm not allowed to say anything about Kerry here on DU. n/t

[WildEyedLiberal]

2. Because underfunding the troops in the field is somehow a good thing

And will help end the war? :shrug:

Nice logic, bucko.

[forintegrity]

3. I think JK is right...

we need the $$$ to get out!

[saracat]

4. It is going to cost us something to protect the troops already there

And it is going to cost us more troops and lives to protect the Iraquis we invaded. This is different.And it is the only possible vote. It isn't as if we can just pull up stakes and leave. W has gotten us way too intrenched for that. Kerry is only looking to provision the troops in the feils and to protect the civilians.

[Dhalgren]

5. Just listen to the rationalizations on this thread.

Supporting this war is supporting this war, regardless of the lame excuses. If the GOD-KING were asking for 80 bin. to fund the removal of the troops within the next 30 days, then yeah, vote for it. But giving the money to "finish the job" - well, I guess crime doesn't really pay enough to be self financing...

[dbeach]

7. THANX I was gettin worried there for a minute..

VN war had over 58,000 dead and congress kept saying to stay the course...

deaths started slow in Nam from 1959 til 1963..ONLY a few thousand..then 1964 the Marines hit DaNang and its hell to pay..most deaths in 1968 Tet and 1969 when I was there..

Congress quit funding the VN war in 1972 but nixon got black ops funds til ford ended it in 4/30/75...

STAY THE COURSE...Easy to say when ya NEVER served in a war zone..
someones kids are dying..my kid is draft age..
War is a racket.Always has been. Maj. Gen. Smedley Butler

let the children of the politicians go to war..
then there would NEVER be any more war..

[Dhalgren]

8. Yeah, it was like, "Where are we?"

I was in the Army from 72 to 75. I wasn't sent to Vietnam, but knew lots of guys who had been. All their stories were the same - ugly, fucking ugly. It just makes my skin crawl to hear someone say "finish the job" or "stay the course" or "see it through". Christ, every syllable represents a thousand dead soldiers and ten thousand dead civilians. "Cut and run?" You fucking bet...

[LittleClarkie]

14. Cut and run like we did in Saigon? With the same people

who were in the Ford Administration when we beat feet in Saigon?

Oh. Goodie.

Because Saigon was so much fun the first time.

Somehow, some way, there has to be a better solution.

Not that I think Bush Co is capable of finding it, mind you.

Just about anything we do over there is going to be a cluster Cheney.

[LittleClarkie]

16. Easy to say when ya NEVER served in a war zone?

I thought we were talking about Kerry, not Bush.

[dbeach]

22. good pt..I did not mean it for kerry

kerry served BUT he is giving dope to an addict when he supports bush folicy..I meant it for folks who chime in with 'stay the course' who have NEVER served and/or will not let their kids serve..I do respect their view
congress stayed the course til they stopped funding VN in 1972...58,192 dead for that course...

BUT how can ya stay the course when you NEVER been on it..??
You lose nothing unless you go there or your kids or family do..Not too many military families here.

I was there on 4/20/71 when Kerry threw his medals..VN is most controversial war in US history and it keeps us divided vets are still very divided about VN

Clark in 08..
dissent til ya believe in it.

[leftyandproud]

31. let me second you thanks. *NT*

[dbeach]

32. anti-war dems in 60s included BK and Eugene mcCarthy..

who ran for Pres ..back when elctions had no dibolt machines

BK gunned down in 68 and after nixon mean machine rolled over Mac

Dems saying support the war have learned ZERO from the agony of VN..VN divided this Nation and continues to haunt us.....
longest 1959-1975 , most expensive and most controversial war.
if ya were there you canot afford to trust big brother again...
Lessons learned..
LBJ made cash on war but cheney/bush sets a new standard for conflict of interests..

[WildEyedLiberal]

9. How pathetic

Alloting money for proper equipment for soldiers = rationalization of the war. Get out of your little fantasyland and start living in the real world - we are NOT leaving any time soon, regardless of what you or I or anyone in the goddamn world may want. You CANNOT destroy a nation's infrastructure and then leave it in rubble. The new government has requested we remain while the army is trained - you just want to cut and run and leave Iraq to disintegrate into further chaos? Go on, bitch all you want about how warmongering I am, or Kerry is, or whatever the fuck. Maybe some people just realize that you have to try to make the best of a terrible situation. Life is NOT as black and white as you'd have it be, but nice try.

[dbeach]

12. easy on the f word..

my kid enjoys reading this stuff..maybe I can see your point..we don't abandon the trops ..just get em out slowly..the mess is unsolvable and I think bush wants it that way..
he don't care one iota for the troops or us Vets..I remember Big shot powell saying VN will not be repeated..BUT IT IS!..Many Vets that I know are worried bout the troops BUT are also worried that bush is cuttin the VA to fund his unnessary war..
58,191 KIA and congress kept funding the war..history is aginst bush and his villains..
it ain't about Iraq ..its about bush and his deceptions..they rape the economy and reap their trillins while you and me argue about impossibilities..
I once respected kerry and voted for him in Ma as senator and again in 04..
NOW I see him as bush cousin and a skull and boneser..
if ya cuss me out again..I won't reply

You have valid points but so do the folks who disagree with ya..
Hold your fire for the real enemy..they wil appear

DISSENT PROTECTS DEMOCRACY!

Thanx for your protection.

[WildEyedLiberal]

13. I won't cuss you out

But I do think that your invocation of Skull and Bones renders any point you might have invalid. Sorry, loonybin conspiracy theories just make you look, well, loony.

[dbeach]

18. INSULT CUSS NOT MUCH IMPROVEMENT

I suported kerry but the facts are he is in that secret society..so its hardly a conspiracy

again you kill me ..only a big mouth messenger..org..
Govt lied about VN Agent orange..and war in iraq...

loony..then maybe don't pat attention to a loony

remember plent of loonies died and suffered for this once great nation..so ease up I ain't called ya no names cuz its what the repukes want..divide and conquer repeat..
plus I think you very smart hombre...

thanx for not cussin..make nice with me and I happy to chat wth you..
spare the insults ..it is beneath your intell and mines too..

[WildEyedLiberal]

21. I'll spare the insults when you spare me kooky conspiracy theories

Yeah, Skull and Bones is a secret society. So is every fraternity and sorority on the campus of every university of America. So is Knights of Columbus. So are the Freemasons. You're trying to imply that there's something insidious about the fact that they were both in this club at Yale, when in fact they were two years apart and didn't know each other. I don't appreciate your smearing him with such ridiculous offal.

I don't want to fight, believe it or not, but I don't think anyting you've said in regards to Kerry is fair, so I am going to call you on it. Legitmate criticism of whatever you perceive that he's done wrong is NOT calling him a Bush crony Skull and Bonesman. That's just plain ad hominem smears, and it's not a whole lot removed from the SBVT crap. Again, you want to offer genuine criticism, then offer it, but stay away from the ridiculous smear jobs, because it only impugns your credibility.

[dbeach]

23. back at ya..

You plenty smart...kerry was in the group ..I don't agree with your assessment..I think its more sinister...
kerry let me down..S& B is not a conspiracy in your opinion..
good that you defend kerry..I no longer believe in the man..call me on it but its how I think

kerry to this VN Veteran is no loner the HERO that I once thought he was..Voted for him and supported him since 1980..dems must quit supportin bush folicy

BTW 5 pols of 535 have kids in military .. if the number was 205 bet ya there would be no more wars..


its a racket... its a con... kerry is part of the game .. and its a blood sport...

we need Heroes now and kerry had his chance..
we ain't gonna agree on this...
but my chief villain remains bush & co ..they got us into this mess and I bet kerry would have been one huge improvement...regret that he did not show some courage and fight for that election...

So beat on me God I must love abuse...but we ain't out of this mess for a long time...
thanx for not cussin..my kid will read this in AM and agree with you..

[Pooka Fey]

17. Would you want your batterer or abuser to patch you up? I wouldn't.

Somehow, (and ** won't do it); we need to get America out of Iraq, rebuild a relationship with NATO, suck up to Europe big time, and get an international coalition to rebuild the country that we destroyed - except we have to pay most of the money. This is what we would do if this had anything to do with "freeing the Iraqis".

Giving money to an actual Marshall Plan for Iraq would be a different enterprise entirely than giving more money to continue the "war" (occupation) so that Big Oil, GE and Halliburton can get richer, (while 9 billion dollars disappears into thin air). Oh, also so more Americans can die, get wounded, get PTSD, and come home to no VA benefits or jobs, and maybe be homeless.

Nothing as corrupt as this occupation/war can be improved just by throwing more money at it.

[dbeach]

19. AMEN!

its all about cheneys 401 and bushs carlyle pals..fat cats eating at the govt trough..


this war maybe even less legit than VN and thats a biased view but really ..

candi floss rice sayin ' mushroom clouds" on TV had me so scared..


blamin sadam for 9/11 whom papabush and rummy sold lots of US products toin 1980s.
"WAR IS A RACKERT.Always has been"

[Pooka Fey]

20. Thank you for your service in 'Nam. Thank God you got home safe.

Thank you for reminding those of us who don't know what it's like to have been in combat what's really up. You're right, if the children of the rich had to go and fight there would be no more war - not stupid money and oil grubbing dirty corporate wars, at least.

[dbeach]

24. THANX AGAIN..

war is a touchy subject to me and leaving now would embarass and slow the bush war machine and save lots of lives..many returning iraq vets[NGs and reservists} are already against bush folicy and applying at VA for care..the shrinks are diagnosin em with PTSD and then they cannot return to war zone...

[Pooka Fey]

25. Good thread. I'm nominating for Greatest page.

[dbeach]

26. bush hurts TAO...

water the most highly precious commodity inhabits the lowest places.
Lao tse tung

[LittleClarkie]

11. So something you disagree with is "rationalizing"? Interesting.

Here is Kerry's full statement on the Supplimental spending from his Senate website:

" Tuesday, February 15, 2005

“It's the right thing to do for Congress to stand by military families as part of the supplemental funding that will soon face a vote in the United States Senate. Starting with the coming debate on the supplemental, I will fight to pass as much of my Military Family Bill of Rights as possible. There's no time to wait. Congress must act now.

“We're told that supplemental funding is needed to deal with emergencies around the globe, and I agree. But the urgent needs of our military families must also be addressed. Military families have higher expenses during deployments, and they should be able to make penalty-free withdrawals from their Individual Retirement Accounts for increased child care and other deployment-related expenses.

“We need to extend TRICARE military medical benefits to all members of the National Guard and Reserve, whether they are mobilized or not. It impacts readiness when a Reservist is called up and doesn't pass his physical because he hasn't been to a doctor in two years. We also need to expand Post Traumatic Stress Disorder programs within the VA system and require outreach efforts to find the vets who need the care.

“We also need to be more flexible with families who have lost a loved one. Widows currently have 180 days to move out of military housing if a spouse is killed in action. For those with young children, that may mean starting the school year in one state and finishing it in another. We should let them stay for a year. It’s the least we can do.

“It's time for a debate about what it really means to support the troops, in actions not just words. Truly supporting our troops requires that we act not just as individuals, but as a nation. We owe our troops the best-planned, best-equipped, and best-led military force in the world, and we owe them the peace of mind that comes from knowing that they and their families will be taken care of.”

[dbeach]

15. sounds good..

but bush flatlined the VA budget so if they take the money from the VA and give it to the military is aginst bush budget.New VA boss James Niclolson the former RNC chairman is already cutin the VA.. So situation in Vet land is lookin grim..

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dbeach]

28. YEP!

Voted for kerry as sen. and as pres...
more tham disappointed with his support for bush war...
Good pt.. call someone names and twist words when ya disagree..DISSENT PROTECTS DEMOCRACY..
The protected NEVER know the pain of the WARRIOR..
its the Truth ABOUT THIS WAR AND ANY OTHER..
MANY VN VETS ,COLD WARRIORS and VN era VETS KNOW THE FACTS are the GOVT LIES IN NAME OF NATIONAL SECURITY WHICH TRANSLATES AS CORPORATE PROFITS....lied about gulf of tonkin,,pearl harbor, WMDs ect...TO name just a few govt lies..the experimenst with blacks and gonnerea, lsd, atomic radiation,agent orange,persian gulf syndrome,depleted uranium...
IiRAQ IS ALL ABOUT THE PROFITS AND NOTHING TO DO WITH THE BABYSITTERS OF BUSH& CO'S OIL
Iraq just happens to be on some very expensive real estate..

If you support the war and want others{many of whom are from the lower classes} to do the empires killin then maybe you and yours should serve..
Easy to say support the war when your not going to war


bush supported the VN war so did ALL the chikenhawks....

[Dhalgren]

29. I'm with you, brother.

[dbeach]

30. Iraq is bush folicy..

and unless the Dems stand up to these repuk bullies..endless war results.
Now if the draft came back then the middle class would be back in the military then the sleeping giant would hear from their kids about the madness of the generals

'Forward he cried and the front ranks died..generals sighed....us..us and them them them after all we're only ordinary men.'Pink Floyd album 'dark Side of the Moon" longest hit album in 1970s -1980s

and are we ever on the dark side..

"WAR IS A RACKET .ALWAYS HAS BEEN!" Maj. Gen. Smedley Darlington Butler

[Pooka Fey]

6. Who will protect the Iraqis from the U.S. Soldiers and Torturers??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3116220

Massive US war crimes reported in Fallujah: women & children gunned down
http://electroniciraq.net/news/1861.shtml

"One story is of a young girl who is 16 years old," he says of one of the testimonies he video taped recently, "She stayed for three days with the bodies of her family who were killed in their home. When the soldiers entered she was in her home with her father, mother, 12 year-old brother and two sisters. She watched the soldiers enter and shoot her mother and father directly, without saying anything."

The girl managed to hide behind the refrigerator with her brother and witnessed the war crimes first-hand.

"They beat her two sisters, then shot them in the head," he said. After this her brother was enraged and ran at the soldiers while shouting at them, so they shot him dead.

"She continued hiding after the soldiers left and stayed with her sisters because they were bleeding, but still alive. She was too afraid to call for help because she feared the soldiers would come back and kill her as well. She stayed for three days, with no water and no food. Eventually one of the American snipers saw her and took her to the hospital," he added before reminding me again that he had all of her testimony documented on film.

*************************************
Iraqi Women as Victims of the Occupation
http://www.occupationwatch.org/article.php?id=8140

Violence and fear were on the mind of Nadia Ahmed (a pseudonym) who recently wrote a journal for the newspaper Le Monde: "Fear. That's the word that came to mind when I sat down to write this text. What else could I have chosen, except perhaps 'anguish,' 'trembling,' or 'disgust'! These words are my daily lot since the accursed night of March 20, 2003, and the beginning of the Americans' war against my country. As an Iraqi woman, the mother of two children, Samer, 16, and Ahmed, 10, I can say that today fear accompanies me everywhere, even in my bed, which has become a collective one, shared with my sons, for fear of dying apart, in our own rooms, if a rocket or missile should ever by mistake crash in upon us during the night. Fear, again, of waking up in the morning to find them dead and far from me . . . Fear, too, of seeing Americans break in the door to search our house, as they do so often elsewhere."

According to Le Monde, Ahmed is a 49-year-old woman who lives in Baghdad and has "no marked political commitments."

----------------------------------------

Do we really need to keep funding this war to "protect" Iraqis? Is that how the Iraq war supporters on this thread are rationalizing our continued war crimes and illegal occupation of this nation? Because it's for their own good? On Edit - I support our troops -Lets Get Them The Hell Out of Iraq NOW!

[saracat]

10. Costs money to get them out too, ya know!

[DU GrovelBot]

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