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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:52 PM
Original message
Breaking: NBC Says Marine Shot Dead Wounded Iraqi Prisoner
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:35 PM by maddezmom
OP:Breaking on CNN...the marine who shot a wounded 'insurgent'they were showing the video.
The marine is under investigation for shooting a wounded insurgent in the head at point balnk range.
Still looking for a link. :(

edited again to add link:
NBC Says Marine Shot Dead Wounded Iraqi Prisoner

LONDON (Reuters) - A television pool report by U.S. network NBC said on Monday that a U.S. Marine had shot dead an unarmed and wounded Iraqi prisoner in a mosque in Falluja.



The Iraqi was one of five wounded prisoners left in the mosque after Marines had fought their way in on Friday and Saturday. There was no immediate comment from the Pentagon (news - web sites) on the report.


U.S. forces launched an offensive one week ago on Falluja, and have gained overall control of the formerly rebel-held city, although scattered resistance remains.


The pool report by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said the mosque had been used by insurgents to attack U.S. forces, who stormed it and an adjacent building, killing 10 militants and wounding the five.

more: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=564&nci...
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Did they show the whole video?
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 05:55 PM by Pirate Smile
edit - I watched - they blacked out the screen when they shot the person.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. no, not all of it
:(
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scarface2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
120. no..but they showed this!!!
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MsMagnificent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #120
165. Yes, but they're not good KKKristian soldiers!
so showing THAT barbarism is OK!

WE have Moral Values, you know...

...at least the 51% of us that advocate and applaud going to bloody war
Going to war by invading a sovereign country who did nothing to us, I may add.

Yes yes, our Moral Values all the way!

:puke:
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MnFats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. is this the videotape that was aired several months ago?
the wounded guy is trying to crawl away when he's shot in the back by a Marine? To the cheers of his fellow Marines?

I was hoping some action might be taken....


on the other hand, they've been told that the iraqis are soul-less evil-doers whose face is that of Satan himself. With leadership like that, what do you expect?
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rdub Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. no, this is new
No, this occurred in Fallujah this past Saturday.
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rdub Donating Member (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. update
This event occured Saturday. My post about it was already locked by moderators and inaccurately labeled a dupe.

"Marines re-entered a mosque they had taken the day before. Some of the wounded insurgents from the day before were still there (they had been treated by the marines and left there). A marine then shot one of the wounded insurgents at point blank range. The marine in question was apparently unaware that this was a wounded insurgent that had been neutralized the day before."

Story is developing on CNN. Moderators please don't lock this thread.
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Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. Neutralized? I have been SUPPORTING the troops whole-heartedly
until this moment. I am so fucking shocked and appalled. The only way they knew the man was alive is he was breathing. I'm incensed. I'm incensed. I am a veteran. My children are in the military and I'm fucking appalled.

I didn't think my head could hang any lower than it did after Abu Ghraib. I was wrong. All that was good about being an American is going up in smoke. I'm ashamed. Again.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #10
25. Then you know EXACTLY what is going on
a full breakdown on the command structure

The Lt and Captains are not leading, the Majors and Colonels are not keeping their JOs on a tight leash and the Geneva Convention is quaint, so we were told

This is a breakdown in command, pure and simple

Oh and that troop should face the music, and so should his officers and senior NCOs
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luaneryder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #25
38. A major breakdown
that goes all the way to the top. Totally FUBAR.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:22 PM
Original message
Yep and these breakdowns are never heathy
it also reflect poor morale and maybe the problems wiht the suply chain


And reflects somethign else, these troops may be very close to the edge

Not that this justifies it... poorly led troops will go off the handle far easier than well led troops

I think we have a case of total breakdown, and to get it back troops HAS to face a FIELD COURT MARTIAL for a WAR CRIME... with the consequences this entails....

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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
26. We can still support the troops ...
Men (and women) who behave in such a cruel manner during combat are few and far between. Many more troops will return with guilt and regret for having killed civilians in a moment of confusion. That is a consequence of war - even GOOD people do horrible things.

WAR IS HELL! Also remember that the military attracts some antisocial types who enjoy such cruelty but this is NOT the norm. Most soldiers are moral ... after return they need our support so they can resolve the pain and guilt for doing what was necessary for survival. That includes mistakenly killing civilians.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #26
58. I"m with ya...but the military needs to take swift action
they have been pushing the torture/abuse at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib under the rug. I've got friends and family in the military....and they would agree with me.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #58
73. absolutely, just like with perceived or real voter fraud
inaction breeds discontent
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #58
148. EVERY soldier in Iraq...
Every soldier serving in Iraq has a LIFE sentence. They will be sentenced to PTSD, guilt and terror for the rest of their living days. This soldier is doing what soldiers do under fight or flight conditions. The question I would pose to all of you is this... If you had witnessed the gruesome death of a comrade when he tried to turn over the body of an Iraqi insurgent and were wounded in the explosion of a booby trapped body, and you had previously witnessed Iraqi insurgents blow themselves up in order to kill you or other comrades, would you give another one of them the chance to blow you and 5 or 6 others up? I don't think most people can be rational in that type of situation. War is war. Each war gets nastier than the last. Blame this soldiers CIC for sending him there in the first place, not the soldier.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #26
68. Yes, most troops will not do this, not even
with what it appears to me a major breakdown of command

But we must DEMAND that any troop (and officer who condones this) caught breaking the UCMJ and the Geneva Convention (they are the same in the US Military, funny thing I know) be prosecuted to the full extent of the law... and yes it is harsh, the punishment that is. No it is not five years in jail and a Bad Chicken Dinner, it is death by firing squad.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:04 PM
Response to Reply #68
93. We don't know all the circumstances...for you to call for a firing squad
is very cowardly on your part.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #93
96. None of us should be passing judgement on this marine from
thousands of miles away beside the comfort of our computer screens. There will be an investigation, as their should be. That investigation will determine guilt or innocence.

I will presume this marine innocent unless proven guilty. Have the courage to give him the benefit of the doubt and not lash out at those who are putting thier lives on the line so reflexively.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #96
115. Cowardly? HAVE YOU EVER READ THE UCMJ?
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 01:00 AM by nadinbrzezinski
I fear not.

If he is found guilty of a war crime in a combat zone, by a summary court martial, guess what? That is what happens....

First off, does the military consider him inocent until proven guilty? NO, in the military legal system YOU ARE GUILTY UNTIL YOU PROVE YOUR INOCENCE, tough shit, next case, there is a reason for it...

Now here is WHAT YOU SHOULD BE ASKING

Abu Graib, BREAKDOWN IN GOOD ORDER AND DISCIPINE

Marine Troop, seems to have violated the Geneva Convention, I said SEEMS, I want that SUMMARY COURT MARTIAL ok...

We have multiple reports coming in from multiple fronts (yes including Afghanistan where three prisoners in US Custody died) of war crimes, borderline war crimes and OTHER problems... they just keep trickling in...

Now unlike our good ol's boys at the Pentagon I will ask the question since this is not just a few bad apples, WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?

I will tell you EXACTLY what is going on. We have a good ol fashioned BREAKDOWN in GOOD ORDER AND DISCIPLINE...

Now ask yourself why....

1.- Poor supplies
2.- Troops on the line longer than they should... 90 days was OUR standard in WW II and even that one was long
3.- Poor command and control, officers are LOOSING control of the troops
4.- Low morale to NON EXISTENT morale.

This my dear is a symtom of a systematic failure in command and control in the US Military

Now time for YOU to stop making fucking excuses and to face it, because until we face it, we can't do a damn thing... oh and while I want this kid to face the music (unfortunately will be needed to regain control of the force), the fault of this lies at the feet of a very haughty and full of itself civilian leadership... yep Rummy, yep Condy, yep, Wolfie, yep Feith and YES BUSH.

Now you can call me coward any day you want... please do... I don't care what YOU THINK. I know what will be needed and I know it is NOT pleasant. Regaining control of a force that exhibits all the signs and symptoms of a breakdown of command and control is never pleasant...

The alternative is far more casualties ON BOTH SIDES than necessary. What do you think will happen if we completey loose control of our force? I mean 130K troops with no hopes in an impossible situation, they will shoot at anything that moves... or alternatively will refuse to their job and more of them will be killed as they will be sitting ducks.

Do you get this now, or do you need a better translation?
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AnnaBergeson Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #115
159. Problem
How is a force that kills at a ratio of about 40 to 1 in a an urban setting on the verge of a breakdown? This makes no sense. And also, what type of war situation do you consider to be less mentally taxing? Do you believe war should be a relaxing and pleasant experience for the force that is fighting it? Also, your statement about 90 days vis-a-vis the front lines in WW2 almost made me choke! You have GOT TO BE KIDDING... There were episodes in the Pacific in which Marines were in combat for well over 180 straight days without the breakdown that you so ominously invoke. Some of us on these boards need to stop making such fatuous statements...
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The Night Owl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #159
164. 40 to 1? You have to be joking.
Edited on Wed Nov-17-04 02:48 AM by The Night Owl
If the US has been so successful at killing insurgents in Iraq, then why has violence there gone on unabated for well over 1 year?

The US military estimates that the Iraq insurgency consists of roughly 15,000 Iraqis and foreign fighters. If the US is killing 40 insurgents for every 1 US soldier, then 40,000 insurgents should be dead since 1000 US soldiers have been killed by hostile action, right? If more than double the number of estimated insurgents in Iraq are dead, then why isn't the Iraq war over?

:spank:
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majortrepakUSMC Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #96
136. The few and the proud
The only reason the Marine Corps exists is to win wars. Marines are not peacekeepers or policemen. Marines are trained to be aggressive and violent, to kill the enemy that is. The motto semper fi means "always faithful" in the context of always completing the mission at the expense of everything and as i have said the mission is to kill. i know the actions that have accrued may anger some and scary others but this is war not a game and certainly not a court room. If marines can't count on their platoon mates to stand up for their actions to the media how the hell are you going to trust own another when the shit hits the fan. Marines are killing machines by design and it makes me proud every day to see how well my brother perform their job, not everyone could do it but you can count on the few and the proud to walk the line in the sand and keep every safe.

Kill, Kill, Kill them all!!!
-boot camp saying
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #136
138. Are you saying it is ok
to kill a wounded noncombatant or any noncombatant, for that matter?

Do you support the UCMJ or the Geneva Convention?

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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #136
155. Exactly why I DON'T support the troops.n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #155
160. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Rictexas Donating Member (8 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 02:22 AM
Response to Reply #136
162. You got it right.
http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/20041117/D86DEL8O0.htm...

According to this report, the Marine in question had been wounded in the face, and another man in his unit was killed by the booby-trapped body of an insurgent, one day prior to this incident.

I was a 19 year old Marine at one time, probably this Marine's age. Fortunately, I never experienced actual combat. I can't honestly say that given his experince from the day before, added to the stress of being shot at for days, that I would not have done the same thing. Walk in that Marine's shoes for a day.
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #93
137. Excuse me but he's right
if you read the UCMJ you will see it right there in black and white.

He's exactly right. A court martial in the field for something like this very much can lead to being shot to death.

It's harsh, but then so is war. Go read the UCMJ.

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ilovenicepeople Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #26
121. The sad thing is that,
as soon as the troops are stateside the support will end for them.How can these poor kids live in society and function normally ever again? :cry:
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Moonbeam_Starlight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #121
139. Yep
we send them to do the dirty work, which they are very well trained for, we put yellow ribbons on our cars and go around patting ourselves on the back for "supporting the troops" (which for most people involves nothing more than a bumper sticker) and then they come back and find themselves rather lost and alone.

Veterans should be treated the best, not the worst. They come back to find their benefits slashed, their health care sucks, people forget or never really cared, etc.

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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #121
149. Soldiers will never be "normal" again
How can these poor kids live in society and function normally ever again
*******************************************************************
They cannot. That is the tragedy of all wars! :cry:
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RedSock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #26
130. i respectfully disagree
More than 100,000 innocent people have been murdered by US troops.

Every single last one of them is guilty of nothing except being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It is murder -- pure and simple. And that's by the troops shooting gund or dropping bombs or calling in air strikes or leading the troops into battle.

It is mass murder.

I cannot support that in any way, shape or form.

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MeinaShaw Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 08:15 PM
Response to Reply #130
168. It is war
It is not mass murder. It is war. What saddam did was mass murder. What Hitler did was mass murder. Let's not kill reason to be against the war by going overboard.
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Mechatanketra Donating Member (903 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #168
169. The two are not mutually exclusive.
In fact, they're basically synonymous. Hitler's "mass murders" includes what he did in Poland and France as well as what he did to the Jews in Germany. War is homocide, writ large; hence, like small-scale homocide, it is only forgiveable if you had no other choice, i.e. if the war was forced upon you by an attacker. Only those who have partaken of the Flavor-Aid could even pay lip service to the suggestion that Iraq is the attacker in this war.

If they were killing Iraqi invaders on American soil, one could just shrug and say "it's a war", and leave it at that as a defense. But if the cause for war is indefensible, the conduct of that war is indefensible too. To not grasp this requires more than killing reason -- it requires killing one's humanity.
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MeinaShaw Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #169
171. Dangerous assertion
I'm not saying you don't have a point on the Iraq war. But likening it to Hitler's Germany is not going to win any arguments or political converts. Statements like that just become fodder for the right wing's attempt to convince the middle that anyone opposed to the Iraq war is nuts.

I understand we are in a forum of like minded people so my cautions do not necessarily apply here. But, my advise is don't repeat this in outside debate. You may be right. But, it will sound a bit crazy. Personally, I don't see any connection between what Hitler did and the war in Iraq - at least not enough of one to risk the votes such talk will cost us in the next election.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
46. I just saw the video. The soldier who shot the man had been shot in
the face the day before and they also talked about boobytrapped bodies. There were some dead in the mosque and this man who was laying down and injured although he moved his arm a little. I am wondering if the soldier shot him thinking the injured man might throw a grenade? I am surmising as I have no idea...it is being investigated. The man and 3 other in the mosque had been treated for the wounds the day before by the US military.
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Cheney Killed Bambi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
91. Can someone post the whole video??
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #46
97. That is quite possible
None of us have any right to pass judgement on this man. That is the job of the investigation.
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Democracy Died 2004 Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #97
116. I pass judgement. Guilty!
Go away now.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #116
117. No, I'm not going anywhere
:-)
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:20 AM
Response to Reply #116
118. That is a cowardly and loathsome thing to do - you haven't the right
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 01:21 AM by Clarkie1
Show some respect.
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robicat Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 04:33 AM
Response to Reply #97
125. Sorry buddy....
I am passing judgement.

I heard the conversation prior to the murder, saw the murder (until the last frame which Australian News rightly censored) and heared the laughter after the poor fellow was killed like a dog.

First degree murder and a war crime.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #125
157. We have no proof of that yet
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AdollarTwoNintyEight Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #10
103. How much combat have you been in?
I will not judge this soldier. There have been several insurgents "playing dead" in these situations and then killing our soldiers.

Unless you were there or have been in the same situation I would not be so quick to judge.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #103
107. That injured man had been shot the previous day by American troops
who left him and the others lying there. He lay for over one day, WITHOUT getting up and scarfing a samwich. He was SHOT. It was EASY TO SEE.

Col. Jack Jacobs, who studied the clip told Americans on tv tonight that it is strictly AGAINST MILITARY PROCEDURE to kill unarmed people, and he was referring to this murdered man.

He said there is no doubt surrounding the situation. He said it is WRONG. WRONG. Just try to concentrate.



There really AREN'T any areas of your life in which you are not responsible for what you do, no matter what the idiots tell you.

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #103
142. Hey cool,another new DUer
This thread is bringing you all out! We should market this thread on how to attract newbies!!
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AdollarTwoNintyEight Donating Member (12 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #142
146. Then why do I feel inferior to the non-newbies?
Was your greeting intended to make me feel welcome or to allow you to postulate among the all-knowing? I happen to care about the feelings of people and newbies alike.
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MeinaShaw Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 12:24 AM
Response to Reply #146
174. Elitist thing
Its a forum elitist thing, this newbie bashing. Makes people feel better to put down other people. People like that are better suited to a snooty country club though. They drive people away - only it seems to me we could have used a few million more in the last election. Pisses me off actually.
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MeinaShaw Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #142
173. Newbie thread
Not sure I follow your point. What does being a newbie have to do with this thread?
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MeinaShaw Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-22-04 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #103
172. If in same situation
I am thankful I have never been in any situation like this soldier was in. But if I was, I would not have been as brave as those guys and that soldier. I hate to say this, but I would have shot everthing in the room before I even walked in - especially if I knew others had died in a similar situation because someone faking dead had exploded themselves and everyone with him.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
112. You've been supporting them?
How, exactly?

I support them by demanding they be returned home.

I do not support them taking even one life while in Iraq, because the war and occupation was and is illegal, and every resulting death is illegal.

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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #10
132. You were supporting the troops whole-heartedly even after
Abu Ghraib? This time there was a reporter there. This time the reporter was a practicing journalist. This time there was videotape. This time the videotape wasn't lost or destroyed. This time it was shown on a major news media outlet.

How many times has this happened that we do not know about? How many possible war crimes are out there that we will never know about?
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
152. I am surprised it took you this long
Americans love to believe our folks in uniform are somehow more moral than the military of other countries. Just realize, we never get the full story. Yes, this guy who shot the wounded Iraqis may be in the minority---who knows---but the attitude behind his killing these men is widely held. A few may sober up months or years down the road and feel shame and sorrow over their actions, but the military as a whole attracts those who have a black-and-white, good guy vs bad guy view of the world (sounds like someone else, doesn't it?).
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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #4
15. There was another thread started by someone out of the UK
I suspect it is the same news but the news had not broken here yet. I said if real it would break here soon, that was about 2 hours ago.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. I saw the film just now on BBC.... he was fucking 'neutralized' alright
He was laying on the floor with a dead person leaning on him. He was barely breathing and the bloodthirsty marine screamed 'He's fucking breathing he is DEAD now!'. I hope he goes to JAIL! It was beyond sickening... :puke:
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
43. Did the BBC show everything?
Cause NBC news said too gruesome to show - yeah like war isn't gruesome. Americans need to see this. U.S. media is chickenshit!

In forty years we'll have the iraqveteransfortruth claiming there were no atrocities in this war!
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TolstoyAndy Donating Member (493 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #43
105. BBC blacked out the shot n/t
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #43
156. And we'll have someone like young John Kerry
saying there was and called a traitor for speaking the truth.
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barb162 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #27
47. I saw a different video; this man who was shot was laying there by
himself with his head up against a wall
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VioletLake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
5. Under investigation for what?
Being stupid enough to do it on camera?

Just another "bad apple" perhaps?

I am outraged.
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. he was propped against a wall
"these are the dead they haven't taken away"
"he moved!"
point blank shot him

elderly man - no weapon
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Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. That's not the one they shot. It was somebody around the corner.
The elderly man was already dead. He looked real dangerous.
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knowbody0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. this is another one
different from the one between the two buildings
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:41 AM
Response to Reply #14
113. YES, TOTALLY DIFFERENT
The guy on the oil drum and the insurgent between the buildings was a different incident completely. In that one, you never see the insurgent, and the video provides an incomplete understanding of what happened behind that wall.

In this one, though, the whole incident, which takes place inside a building (a mosque, I think) is shown.

They have removed the Marine who fired his weapon into the old guy from Iraq, they've appointed an investigating officer (ugh, that is the WORST job), and the investigation is underway. They ARE taking it seriously. It didn't look too good from what I saw, but we don't know what was happening before or after the clip that was shown on TV, or the full battle environment.

But like I said, it does look like the kid who shot the old man was losing it--in fact, the entire squad was behaving in a rather frantic and stressed-out fashion. I sensed a lot more fear in that room than machismo. I think those guys were scared fucking shitless, and shooting at ANYTHING that moved.

Apparently, the insurgents have been in the habit of booby-trapping dead or dying fighters. I think this squad had encountered some of them. That's not an excuse, simply a factor in mitigation.
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robicat Donating Member (15 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 04:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
126. This may indicate that....
.... this sort of act has been normalised in some way.

(That it was done on camera that is)
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
6. Getting caught is the crime that he will be punished for in the PR war.
And also for wasting ammunition when the wounded bleed to death anyway. How wasteful.

Military solutions are problems.
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proudbluestater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Getting caught is the crime he'll be punished for, right on.
Do you remember the OUTRAGE Rummy displayed at the Abu Ghraib abuse photos? NO, NO, NO outrage at the abuses, TONS of outrage that the pictures saw the light of day. Incredible! I saw him at the hearings. He was positively apopleptic. I thought he would have a stroke giving testimony, just because somebody had the balls to air the actual photos of what we are not allowed to see.
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Andyjunction Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. The Iraqi was only partly concious.
You could hear the Marine saying "He's faking being dead! He's breathing!" just before the camera goes black and shots are heard.

But just seconds before you could hear other Marines saying these were injured prisoners from the day before.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
13. You only are in trouble if caught on CAMERA
When will these IQ 80 type troops learn this

Ask Chuck Graner he can tell you what a BITCH life now is for him.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/08/Lynndie-c...

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. Who shot the video?
That's who Rummy will really go after.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. surprisingly GE!
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:35 PM by leftchick
NBC's embed Kevin Sites was there with the marines. It was so horrible. I don't know how Kevin can stand to be around them after that.
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western mass Donating Member (718 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
17. Footage just on BBC America...
although they refused to show the moment of actual shooting as being "too graphic"...
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juliagoolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. I didnt see it.. but....
Asking..

Was there any medical help on the way? Had these kids been hearing people scream in pain and having to walk past them>? Could you walk away from someone in pain that was going to die after you left when you could end the pain sooner?

Could it have been something like this? Could it have been that just a few mins before they tried to help someone and a buddy got blow apart>? because the guy was wired or was holding a grenade?

War sucks! Something in me wants to hold out and see the best in humans and hopes that I am right on some level.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
34. Do you want our own soldiers
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:44 PM by crunchyfrog
to be shot like dogs, if they're wounded and no medical help immediately available? Is that what we've come to?

War does suck, and one of the biggest reasons it sucks is that it brings out the absolute worst in human nature.

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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #18
37. A mercy killing?
You are quite the optimist. Frankly, in Bush world mercy killing isn't allowed for terminal cancer patients, so why should it be allowed for wounded prisoners of war? It's hard to believe I just wrote that.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
40. Euthanasia
Is not an option, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, it's called murder.

And the murder of a prisoner is often called a WAR CRIME.

Do not try to justify this action, or others like it. When you try to reason this kind of crime, it makes you as bad as the person who committed it.

And yes I've been in combat during Desert Storm!!!
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juliagoolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #40
88. golly..
Im as bad as all that? Actually, I was just trying to put myself in this guys place and try to see what his world is like right now. No excuses, just trying to see from the other side...

No excuse for murder, but understanding why someone does what they do isn't evil either.
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. Then Maybe
You can let us know why Scott Peterson kiled his wife and unborn child, or why OJ killed Nicole and Ron Goldman.

When a murder is committed it is either planned, or it is in the heat of the moment, but it's still murder, and unless the killer is mentally incompetent, the reason why doesn't matter.

I know what his world is like, he had a choice to make, and he made the wrong one. It's a matter of right and wrong, like Abu Ghraib. Some of the soldiers have admitted that they knew what they were doing was wrong, but they did it anyway.

What this is, is a case of an amoral marine, who had been shot and was out for payback, that pretty much covers it.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #90
150. Look up Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
This soldier shouldn't have been on duty that day at all! We are working with approx. 130,000 troops in Iraq that have been overtaxed and are probalby ALL suffering from some degree of PTSD. I know two Veitnam vets and a Gulf War vet. All war time soldiers suffer some degree of this. There are MANY who can NEVER function in society again
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
114. There was no medical help to speak of
except for maybe a passing corpsman...hell, they were even having trouble getting resupplied. It was still house-to-house, flamethrowers, rpgs, and tanks blasting houses. It was an ongoing combat environment.

My sense is that those guys were freaking and frightened...close to losing it. They did not look like swaggering toughies. I have to wonder how many casualties they took that day. They did not seem cohesive or focused. They seemed SCARED.

Just my take. Not brutal animals, just kids, scared kids, who might have been cracking under the pressure. The preliminary investigating officer will have to sort the whole mess out definitively, but I'll bet he will find that a breakdown in discipline and excessive stress due to unit combat casualties contributed to the incident.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #114
123. These "KIDS" are Thugs and Murderers
They were recruited by THUGS AND MURDERERS

WE NEED THER DEATH PENALTY FOR THEM
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #123
141. Ah, your perspective on the issue is abundantly clear
Who will administer the death penalty? Who will kill the killer? If murder is so wrong, what do you accomplish by committing the very same act?

I think the killing of 'killers' solves nothing. Those who kill killers are thugs and murderers, too, with a dash of self-righteousness tossed in for good measure.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #141
143. I APPRECIATE YOUR APPROVAL
And suggest you learn to recognize sarcasm.

Meanwhile tho-- who will stop these "KIDS" from comitting more murders with their M-16s, grenade launchers and SAWs.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 06:03 PM
Response to Reply #143
144. Usually denoted by
/sarcasm, or /sarcasm off...for those of us, myself admittedly, who didn't catch it.

We'll have to end this war. It's obvious that the administration is delighted with it to this point in time, so we certainly cannot count on them. I just am not one who thinks that blaming the servicemember accomplishes anything. I'd rather blame the fat, lazy, self-serving, corporately greedy, souless sons a bitches who are giving these kids their orders.

We can't expect kids who are in a combat theater being shot at, IED'd, and booby-trapped to put down their weapons and start singing Kumbayah. Those poor bastards are stuck. At this point, all they are trying to do is stay alive and achieve their mission objectives. They aren't thinking politically, or socially. They are stressed to the max, exhausted, hyper-alert and in pure survival mode. My heart aches for them.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #144
145. Make sure you " PREVENT " the new ones from enlisting
otherwise you are whistling in the dark. If you encourage them to sign up for "freedom". You encourage a never ending war of genocide---which is what "KILL THE RAG-HEADS" stands for..


Thank BTW

I feel very little sympathy for someone who signs up to "KILL THE RAG HEADS" next week--- And then loses a leg because some racist Colonel wanted a bigger body count.

Been there done that.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #145
154. You are not the only one
...who has BT, DT. I get what these kids are going through. And I doubt any one of them would be over there if there was ANY decent opportunity stateside. The "draft" happens when low economic opportunity rears its ugly head. These kids are not demons, they are humans, young souls with zero opportunity who are just trying to become adults, and who are influenced by community pressure combined with nothing in the way of options.

I've also been on the recruiting end of the stick, in "good" times and "bad." When people are hiring, you cannot get a bite. When there are no jobs, you only have to open the stations a couple of days each week, and you can pick, choose, and refuse. You get "points" for high quality applicants, so the person in charge of a recruiting region in a low-employment area is guaranteed to be leader of the pack--and can even send the not-so-good candidates to another area/region to help out the poor bastards who are fighting a good economy, all so they can make recruiting goal. I've seen this happen, I know how it works.

I don't think any of these kids have firmly developed political sensibilities, most of them do not, quite frankly--they just want a paycheck, they want out of a houseful of a bunch of (usually POOR) people, they want a bit of excitement, they want to control their own destinies (so they think at the time they sign), they want to be ADULTS. But dammit, they are kids. They don't read the Nation or Salon, or the WAPO or NYT, they change the fucking channel when the news comes on, they tend not to question soundbites, they watch MTV, AquaTeen Hunger Force and totally love SpongeBob SquarePants. Not all kids are like this, but the ones who join are like this. They like shit I cannot even begin to understand, they like tattoos, piercings, music I do not relate to, goofy looking clothing....but they are good souls, and I don't mind that I don't get the same joy from the things they get a kick out of--I was the same way at their age. They are fucking kids.

I've seen them, led them, hell, been one. I resent the bastards who give them their brutal, unnecessary orders. They are NOT the problem. They are victims or patsies, too, just like our Nam bretheren. I cannot, will not, blame them.

The blame lies with the guy with the sweat sox in the crotch of his nomex. The buck stops with him. The problems started with him. He started this, he can stop it. It's on him. Not those kids.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #154
163. And in closing
The officers and NCOs know what is going on--- The lifers and super lifers---serving their 20 or 30, to then retire and attempt to work as parking ramp attendants. The officers O-5 and above are hopeless, they are a class of thug all by themselves.

There were 5 people from WI killed this week, all under the age of 22, AND when the DRAFT starts !! and it will, I along with a lot of others will take to the streets.

Then the blood will flow in the streets of Amerika. This will be Rove's and Cheneys worst nightmare.

I leave the Chimpanzee out of my prediction, as he will be busy masterbating in some closet on the ranch. Visions of sugar plums dancing in his severely alcohol addled mind.
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Meme Donating Member (233 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
19. Just saw it on the news
its so sick. what needs to happen to wake up the rest of America?
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. Creating more "terrorists"
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:27 PM by ayeshahaqqiqa
this took place in a mosque. I realize the freepers don't understand the seriousness of this--wonder what they would do if they had wounded in a church and people came in and shot them? Wouldn't the poor people there be considered victims instead of terrorists?

Edited to make things more clear.
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Creating more freedom fighters.
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:23 PM by DrWeird
The only terrorist in the video is the marine.

Calling the people who fight against that "terrorists" is just helping the propaganda.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. I agree
I was talking as a freeper. Some of them think all non-Christians are terrorists.
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IranianDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
95. Wrong.
There is no way in hell the people in Fallujah are "freedom fighters." They are fighting for the establishment of an islamic state based on shariah law. You can't exactly consider that "freedom fighting."
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Dangerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #95
127. They are too freedom fighters
If your country is occupied by a foreign power, what will you do, stand there and do nothing?
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
42. They would never violate the rules of war
by using a church to shelter insurgents against a foreign occupier, or as a place to put their wounded.

I'm sure that if they did, they would regard the foreign occupiers of our country as doing the absolutely correct thing under the circumstances.

<sarcasm>
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #42
74. Murdering surrendering Iraqi soldiers happened in Gulf 1 t, covered up too
I am somewhat knew to this blog, Dean/ Kerry / Edwards supporter and blogged there as well.

Its appalling but it isn't new. Covering it up isn't new either. His, the Captain's, troops were told not to let them surrender by a Major, a former helo pilot while on active duty, who then was a reservist with a TOW company. They were shot with their arms up in the act of surrendering. The whole idea was 'We are not gonna take any prisoners". The order was issued by the major, the commanding officer of an antitank company. The person making the alligation was the captain who was the forward air controller. This was not an order that would have been issued by higher headquarters. The Major was someone we had known before the war and he was thought to be a rascist. This order he gave was likly due to rascism.
The Marines, captain at the time, command was informed about the murder of Iraqi soldiers in the first gulf war and the Marine Corps did'nt even investigate. The guy giving the order left the Marines at his choosing and went into the reserves..
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #74
79. edit: His, the Captain's, troops
This is about something that was shared with my husband years ago by the Captain who saw what happened first hand. in the first gulf war. It was shocking and especially since we had known the Major.

It ins't related to todays event.
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bush_is_wacko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #20
151. Yes, you can bet...
You can bet on it that this will most certainly create more insurgents willing to go after American soldiers. The sad thing is this is exactly what feeds thier uprising! I'm still not going to call for the soldiers blood. This war is going EXACTLY as was expected by those that questioned why we were going there in the first place. Bush Co. gets ALL the blame as far as I'm concerned. If you send soldiers to fight a war for oil, this is what you get!
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. Laura's gonna be pissed. This will give Bush wood. n/t

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Shalom Donating Member (832 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
45. Only If Laura Agrees to Get the Whips Out....
and Big Dick Cheney shows up for a threesome....
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Ctrl_Alt_Del Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #45
140. Okay...
I have a lap full of semi-digested lunch now... :puke:
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central scrutinizer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
22. rules of war
how "quaint". How twentieth century. I am sure Alberto Gonzalez has already written a brief exonerating everybody involved.
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ElectroPrincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Yes, the Geneva Conventions only applies to civilized
Armies such as THE NAZIS during WWII ... but not for brown-skinned enemy combatants or those A-Rab terrorists. Their agenda is so transparent but the stupid, sheltered American sheeple will lap it up.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #29
78. It's a different world after 9/11...the rules have changed...
our breed of fascism is new and improved
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lawladyprof Donating Member (628 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. Now, now they show horrors-of-war video
Now after the election.
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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
30. Here is a link to the Story....
God have mercy on us all.

LONDON (Reuters) - A television pool report by U.S. network NBC said on Monday that a U.S. Marine had shot dead an unarmed and wounded Iraqi prisoner in a mosque in Falluja.



The Iraqi was one of five wounded prisoners left in the mosque after Marines had fought their way in on Friday and Saturday. There was no immediate comment from the Pentagon (news - web sites) on the report.


U.S. forces launched an offensive one week ago on Falluja, and have gained overall control of the formerly rebel-held city, although scattered resistance remains.


The pool report by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites said the mosque had been used by insurgents to attack U.S. forces, who stormed it and an adjacent building, killing 10 militants and wounding the five.

(more)


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=2...
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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. Freepers are already rating it down
It went down after I rated it a 5. It's gone down .4 ratings points in about 3 minutes.
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CHICKEN CAPITOL USA Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. thanks for the link---everybody RATE THAT LINK AT YAHOO
it's 3.something
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #30
51. Damn...it dropped from 3.68 to 3.66 *after* I voted...they're hitting it
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. 3.51....need to start emailing it to everyone you know
You have given the news article NBC Says Marine Shot Dead Wounded Iraqi Prisoner a rating of 5.
Its current average rating is 3.51 with 397 vote(s).
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Roland99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #51
60. Down to 3.41
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Rush1184 Donating Member (478 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #60
99. Down even more to 3.36
3.36 with 902 votes
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 07:11 AM
Response to Reply #99
128. well it's world wide news now
no need to rate it up...poor freeps, wonder what they are saying this am.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:41 PM
Response to Original message
32. I just heard on CNN a confirmation of what Andyjunction said earlier
in this thread.

CNN said that the Marine is overheard saying that the wounded Iraqi is only pretending to be dead before he shot him.

Isn't it great that we got the real word in another thread from visiting Good Samaritans that this is appropriate, considering the vicissitudes of war?

They sure do their Bible-waving throng proud, do they not? They should spend less time waving their Bibles, and plotting and defending murders for others to carry out, and more time reading their New Testaments.

Oh, yes. Some visitor here also claimed the Marine was doing him a favor by putting him out of his misery. That same element in our society would also fight like hell to keep a suffering person from a doctor-assisted suicide in case of advanced terminal illness.
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #32
41. I saw and heard the marine JudiLyn....
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:50 PM by leftchick
on BBC. the Iraqi was barely breathing and appeared to be unconcious. He was NOT a threat! The marine said "he is breathing he is fucking DEAD now" and proceeded to blow his head off. Lovely isn't it?

:puke:
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:44 PM
Response to Original message
36. Just saw it on CBS. "Mercy killing" my ass.
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 06:45 PM by trof
I had heard earlier on CNN that it was a "mercy killing". Severely wounded Iraqi in terrible pain, couldn't live, and the troop "put him out of his misery".

Not so.
Marine says "He's fucking playing dead. Look at him. He's breathing".
<blam>
"He's fucking dead now!"
The wounded in the mosque had been discovered by a squad previously in the area and left for med evac. The new squad didn't know that.
This AIN'T good.
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DuaneBidoux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
39. Is there an online source for the video?
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NWHarkness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
44. ABC showed it as well
This is going to be a big story.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
48. MSNBC DOING A REPORT NOW n/t
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. CNN: Interviewing Anna Nicole
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KenCarson Donating Member (170 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #50
108. good priority story,
LOL
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
49. Winning their hearts and minds.
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snippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Well . . . Bush always says: "They hate us for our freedom to kill them."
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still_one Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
53. read the comments from Yahoo
though it is not the same thing, the comments remind me of the same shit they were saying about my lai, trying to justify it

Nothing ever changes

A POX ON BOTH THEIR HOUSES

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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
54. Here's "Mercy Killing" from Aug - guess no film on this one
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 07:16 PM by RamboLiberal
I remember posting the story here back on 11-5.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/iraq/la-fg-merc...

<snip>

Medics scrambled to treat the half-dozen people strewn around the scene. A dispute broke out among a handful of soldiers standing over one severely wounded young man who was moaning in pain. An uninjured Iraqi claiming to be a relative pleaded in broken English for soldiers to help the victim.

But to the horror of bystanders, Alban, 29, a boyish-faced sergeant who joined the Army in 1997, retrieved an M-231 assault rifle and fired at the wounded man.

Seconds later, another soldier, Staff Sgt. Johnny Horne Jr., 30, of Winston-Salem, N.C., grabbed an M-16 rifle and also shot the victim.

The killing might have been forgotten but for a U.S. soldier who days later slipped an anonymous note under the door of the unit's commander, Capt. Robert Humphries, alleging that "soldiers had committed serious crimes that needed to be looked at."

And using Google - Mercy Killing Iraq - another one. Guess that's the excuse when they get caught, "it was a mercy killing".

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/09/iraq/main6421...

A U.S. Army tank company commander accused of murdering a man in Iraq fatally shot him out of pity at his injuries, a witness testified Wednesday at hearings to determine whether he should face a court-martial.

Capt. Rogelio Maynulet, of Chicago, is accused of killing a driver for militant Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr while on patrol May 21 near Kufa, south of Baghdad. He has denied the charges of murder and dereliction of duty.

His unit spotted a speeding sedan believed to be carrying al-Sadr militiamen, and a chase ensued. U.S. soldiers fired shots at the vehicle, wounding the driver and a passenger.

On Wednesday, military prosecutors presented statements made to investigators by a subordinate, 1st Lt. Colin Cremin, who said Maynulet told him that "they pulled out the driver" and that part of his skull had been blown away.

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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. I thought this administration was firmly against euthanasia!
I guess maybe that pertains only to those who beg to be put out of their mercy.

:eyes:
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AngryWhiteLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
57. COLD BLOODED MURDER...PERIOD
Someone needs to post the complete video or provide an UNEDITED link.

Please explain how this cold blooded killing is any different than the beheading videos of the Iraqi insurgents?

So much for the Religous Reich's so-called "Culture of Life"...I guess they were only talking about white, Anglo-saxon life.

JB
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
59. Could this be the ... girl napalmed that turned
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 07:19 PM by nadinbrzezinski
the Murican people against Vietnam?

or maybe... the police chief of Saigon shooting an unarmed man?

Wars turn on images...

And yes that troop has only one choice right now under the UCMJ, he has to face the music for commiting a WAR CRIME, and so does his NCO and all the way to the top.
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. More like the Vietnamese ally that shot the prisoner photo
But I think 51% of Americans don't give a shit - maybe we ought to show up at fundie churches and on street corners at rush hour with great big posters of Iraqi kids blown to bits.

Like the Pro-Lifers do at Dem rallies. I sure saw them this year at every Kerry or Dem rally, even the Labor Day parade!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. 51% did not care for that girll either
remember that....

War is partly images, so far we have had a very "clean" war, we have not seen the caskets, the faces of the death (wiht some exceptions), or civie casualties.

This is real... some will try to hide, but this is getting played all over the country I am told

It even makes it tempting to turn my teevee on...

Nope will resist, have to resist, I will not turn my teevee on

(and as an aside I have seen people killed from a GSW to the head, from gratuitoous violence)

Now if the troop had cuffed him, fine, secure your prisoner...

That is still valid,

Shoot an unarmed man, who is no longer considered an enemy combatant, what was he thinking? I can guess, poor leadership does not excuse his actions
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. or like the NANKING baby


Japanese aircraft bombed south Shanghai Station Aug.28,1937.
About 200 people in the waiting room were dead or wounded by the bombing. A crying baby was left alone after the bombing

This photo was published in "Life" Oct.4,1937


they too claimed to bringing PEACE, PROSPERITY and SECURITY to their region of the world with their GEACPS policy and also had a very hard time telling the ILLEGAL COMBATANTS from the civilians.
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Pikku Donating Member (292 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
62. That explains why the US won't let the Red Crescent in...
...as I just heard on NPR, the US military said that they'd conduct their own relief operations for Fallujah civilians, thankyouverymuch.

I guess they're worried that the RC might see something they shouldn't.

Foul.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #62
66. To a point
and I suspect that someobdy from the ICRC is taking notes as we speak...

They always do...


Them gnomes in zurich are building a case....

And I fully suport them.
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berni_mccoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
63. This is nothing... they've done much worse than this before
Check out this video from earlier this year:

http://www.bushflash.com/rm/shoot_pc.ram

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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
67. Topping Vietnam all the way
A big national "shock" came when they showed a South Vietnamese, on our side, blowing away a prisoner on national TV. So jaded and dissolved is our national audience that one of OURS doing something like this barely registers a bleep. We were quite naive back then, but we did learn something from that single incident. Now the national forums are so ruined and scattered we are incapable of reacting at all and wonder if we even could given a fair chance and united audience participation.

As bad as the news ever was, there is very little influence over the public like they once had without the mob-like noise machine forcing all the pathetic parts echoing lies in unison.

War atrocities? That certainly hasn't changed, nor the results of bitterly unjust wars.

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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:31 PM
Response to Original message
69. AP link: Report: U.S. Marine Kills Wounded Iraqi
NEW YORK - A U.S. Marine shot and killed a wounded prisoner in a Fallujah mosque, according to a television pool report broadcast Monday. A Marine spokesman said the shooting was being investigated.



Pool pictures taken by NBC correspondent Kevin Sites embedded with the Marines 3rd Battalion, 1st Regiment, were recorded Saturday as the Marines returned to an unidentified Fallujah mosque.


The video, according to a version aired by CNN, showed a Marine raising his rifle toward the prisoners but neither NBC nor CNN showed the shooting itself. The video was blacked out but the report of the rifle could be heard.


According to the Sites report of events that led up to the shooting, the Marines had stormed the mosque a day earlier Friday after a firefight with insurgents who had taken up a position inside. Ten men in the mosque were killed and five were wounded. The wounded were left behind as the Marines moved on.

more:http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&nci...
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. rate it
You have given the news article Report: U.S. Marine Kills Wounded Iraqi a rating of 5.
Its current average rating is 3.71 with 7 vote(s).
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #69
75. AFP-Marine shown on US networks shooting wounded man in Fallujah mosque
WASHINGTON (AFP) - Several US televison networks aired footage of members of a US marine unit entering a mosque in Fallujah before one marine shot an unarmed, wounded man in the head as he lay prone aganst a wall.


Televisions networks said the marine who killed the wounded man had been detained and could face prosecution.


The reports said the unnamed marine had been wounded in the face the day before the killing but had returned to duty almost immediately.


CBS News showed a still photo from the film depicting the marine standing above the slumped figure aiming his rifle at the man's body.


It aired excerpts of a discussion between the marines.


"He's dead now," one marine in the squad shouts after the shooting

more: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/2004...
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vinessa4freedom Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
70. wakeup call
if we are lucky- maybe this will wake a few of the drones up from their coma to realize this occupation is bull. On the other hand- sorry, my paranoia is high today- maybe it's an intentional leak. The armageddon freaks are getting anxious...
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RamboLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
71. Is it a violation of the Geneva Convention to leave wounded behind?
You know if it was an American Marine they'd get him evacued if possible.

Is it a violation to leave behind wounded enemy?

I know they didn't give a shit about wounded Iraqis, but curious as to the rules. Though dangerous I would think they could've had follow-up care provided somehow.

That's inhumane to leave these wounded behind for a day.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. hmm looking for my brain cells that deal
with the conventions.

In an ideal situation after an enemy surrenders or is rendered neutralized (aka wounded to the point of not being capable of putting up a fight any longer), troops are suposed to do the following

a) MAKE SURE they are no longer a threat... aka disarm them.
b) render medical aid, as in first aid if needed
c) Transport these prisoners in the most expeditious way to an aide station if wounded, if not to a detention center for processing, where a POW is suposed to only give name, rank and serial number, added over the years date of bitth and place of birth. Realisitcally usually to batallion for some interrogation. Oh did I mention your job is to ensure THEIR safety even at the risk of YOUR SAFETY?

IF you cannot do the above safely, you can render aid and leave behind, (what a previous group of Marines did from reading the story) until a second team can arrive and do the above. If you are forced to do this food and water shoudl be left with the casualties, as well as a note or any other signifier that they no longer pose a problem... aka they are neutralized, and are no longer considered active combatants but now are considered NON combatants.

Now this is a short distilation of the Conventions... and why this troop should face the music and I mean the full platoon, not only the shooter. Why wasn't he stopped? And was he encouraged or egged on?

What I see is a breakdown in command.

Oh and I have mentioned this severeal times, I used to be a Red Cross Medic... no, not the American Red Cross, but a national society where the country actually went into civil war... so we actually HAD to ahem, enforce these silly rules.

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #71
80. Well of course the 'new' AG thinks that Geneva is "quaint"
It's a new kind of war, didn't you get the memo?
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. Yes I saw that - even if he felt that way it is not very smart to say.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:49 PM
Response to Reply #71
83. repost. Leave behind or kill them so you don't have to mess with it?
I am somewhat knew to this blog, Dean/ Kerry / Edwards supporter and blogged there as well.

Its appalling but it isn't new. Covering it up isn't new either. His, the Captain's, troops were told not to let them surrender by a Major, a former helo pilot while on active duty, who then was a reservist with a TOW company. They were shot with their arms up in the act of surrendering. The whole idea was 'We are not gonna take any prisoners". The order was issued by the major, the commanding officer of an antitank company. The person making the alligation was the captain who was the forward air controller. This was not an order that would have been issued by higher headquarters. The Major was someone we had known before the war and he was thought to be a rascist. This order he gave was likly due to rascism.
The Marines, captain at the time, command was informed about the murder of Iraqi soldiers in the first gulf war and the Marine Corps did'nt even investigate
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
77. I for one would like to lay off the troops on stuff like this - yeah it
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 08:07 PM by MJDuncan1982
sucks and may make things worse but blame that on the planning not the poor 22 year old who just got dropped into Hell thinking he would be covered in flowers.

JUST SAW THE VIDEO, EDIT:

The rules of war must be obeyed as best as possible. It would appear to me that what the marine did was illegal. I will err on that side of the line until something can be shown to prove otherwise.

Article 3 Section 2 of the GC for the Amelioration of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field (1950)

'The wounded and sick shall be collected and cared for.'

I stand corrected - however, what is the "official" status of such a fighter?
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #77
81. Sorry chum
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 07:48 PM by nadinbrzezinski
the troop is responsible for following the standards he was taught, on the rules of warfare

Though we agree on something, teh ultimate responsibilty for HIS actions lay at the feet of Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and George Bush, as well as any officer in his chain, from Abizaid on down

But once you start justifying war crimes from troops becuase well, they are young... what exactly did we try people at Nuremberg for? Oh and wasn't obeying orders disallowed as an excuse?

Just wondering
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RyomaSakamoto Donating Member (393 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #77
84. colin is that you?
Copyright 1995 Newsweek
Newsweek
September 11, 1995 , UNITED STATES EDITION

SECTION: NATIONAL AFFAIRS; The Cover; Pg. 33
LENGTH: 1216 words
HEADLINE: The Very Model of a Political General
BYLINE: JOHN BARRY in Washington
HIGHLIGHT:
On duty with Powell, from Vietnam to the gulf
BODY:

<snip>

"Still, Powell had the bad luck to be caught up in two of the most
notorious scandals of his time -- the My Lai massacre
and the
Iran-contra affair. He also was directly involved in the controversial
decision to end the gulf war just short of destroying Saddam Hussein's
elite Republican Guards. Though Powell discusses these incidents in
his autobiography, the book smooths over some hard truths."

"My Lai: Nobody suggests that Powell, who wasn't even in Vietnam on
March 16, 1968, had any responsibility for the massacre itself. But as
deputy operations officer of the Americal Division eight months later,
the then Major Powell drafted its first official response to rumors
that U.S. troops had run amok -- and his denial of the event, in which
up to 400 Vietnamese civilians died at the hands of U. S. soldiers, is
part of what investigators concluded was a cover-up.
"

more...
http://lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archive/sixties...
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #77
86. That poor 22 year old?
too fucking bad. Sorry to disappoint him with the flowers and all, but I for one would like to see him hang.
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Book Lover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #77
87. "Poor 22 year old"? The man's a Marine!
The Marines make remorse-free killing machines, for good or ill. "No better friend, no worse enemy." They are probably the worst tool we could use to win this war.
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Hosnon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:08 PM
Original message
Edit to Original post (nt)
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billyoc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 07:53 PM
Response to Original message
85. There are criminals in every walk of life,
the military included. Bad people do bad things, that's just the way it is.

The marine in the video is a murderer. Period.

Sucks to be his murder victim, and it now sucks to be him.

Hopefully this grisly murder will wake some people up to the fact that we're turning young people into the kind of people that do things like this.

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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 08:08 PM
Response to Original message
89. this is war kids....
no, wait, this is kids in war?

I'm so confused.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:02 PM
Response to Original message
92. Col. Jack Jacobs, who has been in many, many battle situations
was on MSNBC's Countdown, I think, and he said that military policy is to NEVER shoot an unarmed person, NO EXCEPTIONS.

He also said that in ALL of the circumstances he has ever been in, in war, there have been NO ambiguous situations in which you would ever wonder what the right thing to do would be. He said the old "Fog of War" thing simply would not be applicable here.

He left no doubt this should never have happened. Of course, he may not be as wise, nor as decent as a nutjob, rightwing poster on a Democratic message board.
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sleipnir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
94. Isn't death by hanging the punishment for war crimes?
Edited on Mon Nov-15-04 11:06 PM by sleipnir
If true, what the report is saying, the Marine should be tried. If he is found guilty, would the court apply the appropriate sentence?
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kostya Donating Member (769 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
98. Without personal comment, here is something an old Marine
friend wrote to me. He saw more action in Korea than anyone should ever have to see in their lifetime:

When a small patrol goes out to dig out enemy infantry from a city they don't take prisoners. They especially don't take a wounded man prisoner. Someone will have to carry him and he will use up a corpsman's time and meds. After that, you have to call out an ambulance to drag him to a field hospital and go through the whole stupid surgery thing until he croaks. It is better to do him in with a bullet and get on about your business. Don't waste a grenade on the bastard and above all don't leave him behind your moving patrol so that he might grab his weapon and kill a member of your group. When you can end the problem, end it.

The person who killed him likely has just lost a friend to an enemy bullet. This is a good way to work that problem out.

It is a cold cruel world out there and the USMC is clearly not for everyone.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #98
102. That's a comfort...I'm sure that Jessica Lynch is grateful...
that she was captured by the Iraqis, who COULD be bothered to take her to a hospital.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #102
104. Thanks for pointing that out, Mikimouse.
They took her to safety in their own country, even though she was one of the invaders.

No doubt they could have killed her and no one would have given them one bit more trouble than they did for having spared her, and even helped her get well again.
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Mikimouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #104
106. That Egyptian river is getting quite a workout on the board
these days. Thanks for the reply JudiLyn! :toast:
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LynnTheDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #98
110. When you commit WAR CRIMES, you are a CRIMINAL.
Edited on Tue Nov-16-04 12:27 AM by LynnTheDem
Your "old friend" should know what the UCMJ says about killing wounded POWs. And what the Geneva Cons say about it. And what US Rules of War say about it.

WAR. CRIME. NO EXCUSE.
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0rganism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
100. When will they learn? If yer gonna commit war crimes, do it OFF CAMERA
Ferchrissakes, what kind of retards are we letting loose over there? We need a CRACKDOWN, people, a CRACKDOWN on this VIDEO SCOURGE! Embedded reporting? Who's idea was that? Get that man down here!

Remember, it's only a violation if you get caught.
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marylanddem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-15-04 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
101. "He's trying to play dead"
I saw the Kevin Sites video of the murder on MSNBC and I thought I heard the murderer say something to the effect, "He's trying to play dead." I am sickened, disgusted, appalled. God help us.
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FreshAir Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:23 AM
Response to Original message
109. It gets worse
From the AP:

"The shooting on Saturday was videotaped by a pool correspondent, Kevin Sites of NBC News television, who said three other previously wounded prisoners in the mosque also had apparently been shot again by the marines inside the mosque."

Does anyone really believe that when people dare to do this on camera that these are isolated incidents?
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rndmprsn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 12:26 AM
Response to Original message
111. im very sickened and saddened by this...
like MM said, when you send otherwise good kids off to fight an immoral war...this is what happens.

no leadership @ the top
geneva conventions don't apply
war was a LIE

=[
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Fear Donating Member (745 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
119. no no no no.......please let the US sign the ICC
Or these soldiers are gonna get away with their crimes again (abu ghraib was / is a joke concidering the punishments they received)...or the US will treat this 'incident' like something that never happened again.

This was all sooooo pre-planned.

http://www.icc-cpi.int/home.html&l=en
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Baja Margie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
122. More fuel to the fire,
and the one thing that Arabs do, they never fucking forget.

This is fucked up.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
124. US MARINE 'SHOT PRISONER'
US MARINE 'SHOT PRISONER'

The US military is investigating claims that a Marine deliberately shot dead a wounded Iraqi prisoner.

The incident is said to have occurred in Fallujah at the weekend while US troops were dealing with insurgents inside a mosque.


According to a reporter for the American television network NBC, a US soldier turned his gun on a wounded militant.

A Marine spokesman in Washington has said the incident is now under investigation.

If proven, it looks likely to prove a public relations nightmare for the US-led Coalition.
(snip/...)

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-13249411,00...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"Public relations nightmare?" Apparently this news outlet doesn't have the benefit of the insights shared by some of DU's visiting humanitarians & sages on this thread.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
129. Arab broadcaster Al-Jazeera showed the unabridged version
Arab broadcaster Al-Jazeera showed the unabridged version of the Fallujah mosque shooting tape, complete with one name visible on a backpack and the faces of the Marines, which were not shown on U.S. networks. There was no immediate comment on the tape from Middle Eastern governments because of a Muslim holiday.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&nci...
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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #129
134. I wonder how 'He's fucking faking he's dead' translates into Arabic? -nt
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AnnaBergeson Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:34 AM
Response to Reply #134
158. Moral Relativism
I think the context in which the Marine was explains his reaction. He was probably genuinely fearful for his safety, and so he overreacted. Tu Quoque arguments are tempting for military boosters to make here, but I think anyone with a fair sense of the context would consider this shooting a pretty low order of crime compared, say, to the beheadings and shootings of civilians by the terrorists. One's Bush-hating mentality need not blind him or her to the reality of being in a war zone where literally everyone wants to kill you, and tricks are common.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #129
135. AP can't decide on the right word.. "wounded" or "hurt"
U.S. to Probe Shooting of Wounded Iraqi
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&nci...

this morning at 9am

and latest headline:

U.S. Probes Fatal Shooting of Hurt Iraqi

10 minutes ago
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=535&nci...
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
131. reuters: U.S. Marines Rally Round Iraq Probe Comrade

Marines interviewed on Tuesday said they didn't see the shooting as a scandal, rather the act of a comrade who faced intense pressure during the effort to quell the insurgency in the city.


"I can see why he would do it. He was probably running around being shot at for days on end in Falluja. There should be an investigation but they should look into the circumstances," said Lance Corporal Christopher Hanson.


"I would have shot the insurgent too. Two shots to the head," said Sergeant Nicholas Graham, 24, of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. "You can't trust these people. He should not be investigated. He did nothing wrong."


The military command launched an investigation after video footage showed a U.S. Marine shooting a wounded and unarmed man in a mosque in the city on Saturday. The man was one of five wounded and left in the mosque after Marines fought their way through the area.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=586&nci...
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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #131
153. So much for the "few bad apples" theory. n/t
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quiet.american Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
133. What happens....
....when these troops, now accustomed to wholesale, sanctioned killing get back to the States and their trigger finger gets itchy?
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-16-04 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
147. I can't believe I just saw them kill a human being on the news!
Who's going to stop this war?
Where is the rest of the world, in stopping this?
The longer we all wait to put an end to this, the greater we will be guilty ourselves.

I walked into the livingroom, and saw some military creep shoot a human being like he was a piece of wood. I can't go on any further with this. If you see it, it becomes real. But if the media refuses to show it, then it doesn't exist. Out of sight, out of mind.

When will we hit the streets? Millions of us have to stop it.

Why are we there killing people? Why? Can anyone answer this, logically?
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Kablooie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-17-04 02:02 AM
Response to Original message
161. Iraqi girl's blog. She and her family watched the video of the killing.
We sat, horrified, stunned with the horror of the scene that unfolded in front of our eyes. It's the third day of Eid and we were finally able to gather as a family- a cousin, his wife and their two daughters, two aunts, and an elderly uncle. E. and my cousin had been standing in line for two days to get fuel so we could go visit the elderly uncle on the final day of a very desolate Eid. The room was silent at the end of the scene, with only the voice of the news anchor and the sobs of my aunt. My little cousin flinched and dropped her spoon, face frozen with shock, eyes wide with disbelief, glued to the television screen, "Is he dead? Did they kill him?" I swallowed hard, trying to gulp away the lump lodged in my throat and watched as my cousin buried his face in his hands, ashamed to look at his daughter.

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com /
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Astrochimp Donating Member (212 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 06:43 PM
Response to Original message
166. Link to USMC rules o war........
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #166
167. 1998..just like all other laws
to * and rummy, they do not pertain to fighting terryist after 9/11. :(
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Raiden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-21-04 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
170. From what I understand
that soldier shouldn't have been on duty in the first place! It seems to me that this is the fault of the military leadership. I cannot fathom what these soldiers are going through, and for that reason, I will not prejudge this soldier. It is a fact that the insurgents have been booby-trapping their dead, playing dead and then blowing themselves up, and engaging in all other sorts of dispicable tactics. While I won't say that this marine is necessarily free of any guilt, I likewise will not say that he is guilty. These soldiers are going through hell and that has to be taken into consideration.
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