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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:01 PM
Original message
Some 10,000 GIs Ring Fallujah's Outskirts
NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq - More than 10,000 U.S. soldiers and Marines have taken positions around Fallujah for an expected assault, as U.S. jets pummeled insurgent targets Friday and troops blocked key roads. Iraq (news - web sites)'s prime minister warned the "window is closing" to avert an offensive.


Insurgents struck back, killing one U.S. soldier and wounding five in a rocket attack. Clashes were reported at other checkpoints around the city and in the east and north of Fallujah late in the day.


For the past three nights, long convoys of American soldiers from Baghdad and Baqouba have rolled onto a dust-blown base on the outskirts of Fallujah, a city that has become the symbol of Iraqi resistance. U.S. commanders here have been coordinating plans either to fight their way into the city or isolate it from the rest of Iraq's Sunni Muslim heartland.


If they fight, American troops will face an estimated 3,000 insurgents dug in behind defenses and booby traps. Military planners believe there are about 1,200 hardcore insurgents in Fallujah at least half of them Iraqis. They are bolstered by insurgent cells with up to 2,000 fighters in the surrounding towns and countryside.

more: http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041105/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq&cid=540&ncid=1480

Looks like all systems go for the bloodbath. :eyes:
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Our decline...
...will be hastened by such action. Fools following in fool's footsteps.

:cry:
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. I love how the fool in charge says "America has spoken" when he
refers to the fact that almost 50% of America voted not just for JK, but most severely to oust his as well. I am sure that was lost on his narrow little mind.
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. GET READY MOMS you'll soon hang a GOLD STAR in the window
You kid is about to die for HALLIBURTON and evil scumbag Dickless Cheney (the coward)
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puddycat Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. tell me again why I'm supposed to support these massacres?
I have a moral high-ground position of not supporting people who commit mass murder, whether its * or troops
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. I heard Harlan Ullman, the "creator" of shock and awe this AM on
the BBC World Service's Newshour. Ullman, by the way, was AGAINST the Iraq war.
Anyway, with regard to Fallujah...he said that this won't help anything.
Insurgents may have slipped away. Just creating more hatred toward America. We don't know what Sistani is really thinking...he's afraid of a civil war. Ullman said he was AGAINST going into Fallujah.
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is obscene.
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 04:07 PM by Dhalgren
What makes it worse (if that is possible) is that there is nothing anyone can do to stop this. This is what Americans voted for, I hope everyone enjoys the show...
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physioex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Get out the Orvile Reddenbacher...
And enjoy the show my friend, the wanted it and they are gonna get it....
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ilovenicepeople Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
62. look on the bright side
It would be much worse if "THIER" country actually attacked the USA.(sarcasm)Hell my country (Canada)has done just as much to the states as Iraq has,Please Don't Bomb Us!!!!:scared: :nuke: :scared:
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jpak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
5. And after they raze the place
they want to hold elections there????

This I gotta see...
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
6. Nothing I could say would express the horror and shame that I feel. nt
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Here is what Molly Ivins said about the possibility of shrubya
getting mysteriously reselected. Let the repugs and the sheeple wear it proud. God bless the repubs who switched sides this election.... there were many... and there will be many many more in 4 years if we make it that far.

http://notoriousrrz.diaryland.com/041007_47.html
>>Even more wonderfully, someone asked Molly what she thinks we should do if Bush gets re-elected, which is a probable if terrifying outcome. She told a story about how a friend of hers had a chicken-killin' dog, a dog who would get into the henhouse and eat the chickens.

Now, this friend of hers had been told to shoot the dog, but he couldn't bring himself to do it. Instead, he got one of the dead chickens and put it around the neck of the chicken-killin' dog. He left it there and never took it off. It rotted on the dog's neck and smelled so terrible that no one but no one would even apporach that dog, and after the last bits of rotting flesh fell off the dog's neck, it never went near the chickens again.<<
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
24. I actually had to do that to my beloved dog - only it only took two days
Smelled bad but didn't get to rot stage. She lived another 17 years and never bothered another chicken again.

I miss that dog. :cry:
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:55 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Imagine what 4 years of rot is going to look like to these nimrods... n/t
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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
52. If its any consolation vidali, I completely understand how you feel. -nt
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #52
58. it is Barkley - thank you. nt
:hug:
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gWbush is Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Jesus wants us to kill Iraqis b/c they were behind 9/11...duh!
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Barkley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #7
53. And don't forget killing Iraqi civilians is pro-life ... nt
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Green Mountain Dem Donating Member (784 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. There will be no ......
tears from me this time...I heard from our own media that the military voted 80% for W and so it is apparent to me that they are willing to get their asses blown up for their "moral values". Sorry to be so cynical but I won't be adverse to blaming every soldier's death, from now on, to all those red state evangelicals who voted to keep the inept Commander-in-Chief in place. So be it..let those who follow reap the consequences of their decision. I am truly sorry for the 20% who voted for a change and wish them the best.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. If this is so then I can't support the troops anymore.
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 04:44 PM by PROGRESSIVE1
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #22
48. I understand your anger and disgust, but I cannot abandon supporting
them. Many have Rush blasting at them all day long. Seeing Bush as the good guy might be the only way one can keep from blowing their own brains out. I'm not excusing them, but nor will I judge them. The anger should be focused on those who put them in that position.

I just don't want to go back to the days of the Viet Nam vets. Being spit on and treated like dirt when they came home. Meanwhile many live in their own hell of nightmares of memories of the war or the return home.
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Lizzie Borden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #22
60. This is EXACTLY where we were with the Vietnam war.
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hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
9. Yes, but once Fallujah is razed, the insurgency will just END!!
Once we've sufficiently shocked and awed them with the fact the the world's most advanced military supported by air and artillery was able to flatten an entire city and wipe out a couple of thousand guerillas, they'll just all surrender.

There's just no chance of fighting breaking out in Baghdad or Tikrit or Mosul or Samarrah or Najaf or Ramadi or Nasiriyah or any of the other cities of Iraq. It just won't happen, because we will have killed every last insurgent. After this, everything will be all peaceful like and we'll have won the War On Terror.

The men will cheer, the boys will shout, the ladies they will all come out. :puke:

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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. Saruman: "There will be no dawn for men." n/t
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luaneryder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
20. Tolkien wrote fantasy
but had no idea how much of what he wrote would be used to describe feelings and events decades later. * is Saruman; who is Sauron?
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. Cheney
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
39. that's saurove
U were confused 4 a moment.
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tedzbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
43. Sauron would be Cheney.
eom
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DrWeird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
49. Bandar Bush
Think about it.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. Does anyone else think the insurgents and population have slipped away?
Leaving a rump suicide army to lure the US into a dead-end?
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I certainly HOPE the population has slipped away.
I'm sick of seeing pictures of maimed kids in the FOREIGN press.

I'm thinking Rumsferatu will do that "Junior Birdman" thing with his hands and order an air campaign that makes Dresden look like a practice run.

Out that's OK with Mr. and Mrs. O. Beese Supasize, because "Them peoples don' laik Jeebus!"
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TheKingfish Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Yea don't assume the other side has no strategy
They could leave some fanatic rearguard islamists (who they don't really want in the long run) to tie down the Fallujah assault. Then they could strike elsewhere with their real forces that have been sneaking out. Kind of like a mini Que Sahn. The trappers become the trappees.
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ze_dscherman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #11
42. No, much of the population is still there
Some hours ago I read an interview with one of the U.S. commanders at Fallujah, telling that the population had it's chance to leave and whoever is there deserves what they may get. Something like 50.000 people, and several thousand insurgents.

Grozny, again.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #42
50. I think the reported numbers are 50,000 civilians remain, 250,000 refugees
who have fled.
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tedzbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
44. Yes I do.
There are only a few die hard suicide bombers and innocent martyrs left inside the city. And of course a large population of innocents who didn't manage to flee in time.

This is NOT IN MY NAME.

:nuke:
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Straight Shooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
15. Are they all playing "Burn Baby Burn" on their headsets?
Inflame the insurgents, ignite the hotspots, skyrocket those casualties so bush decides a draft is the only way!

Go, lemmings, go!!

I am so pissed at the train wreck in slow motion unfolding before our very eyes.

Yes, I know, the military has its orders. Many of them are the same ones who voted for bush in 2000. *sigh*
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #15
30. They will die like Dogs for no good reason
Support the troops
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
16. Has no one in the chain of command ever heard of
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 04:33 PM by Dhalgren
"Stalingrad"? Is the "Officer Corps" of this corrupt military eaten up with dim-witted sycophants who spout Bible verses and look for jobs with Haliburton? Is there really this much incompetence in our military? I know that our voting nation and our government have no morals and no shame, but has our military none, as well?
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. There's something to what your saying!
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atreides1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. They Have, They're Just as Arrogant as the Germans were
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 05:27 PM by atreides1
NO our military is as arrogant as the the Germans were, we have the technology, and the better weapons, and no one can defeat us. At least that's what they believe. I believe that the US military lacks that spark that it had back during WWII, the confidence that they were fighting for the freedom of the entire world, not just the US.
Some of the troops don't even consider the Iraqis as humans, and this belief is pushed by some in the chian of command. They went in based on lies and misinformation, and to question it now, they would have to admit that they are nothing more then sacrifices for Bush and his
big corporate buddies. So instead of admitting that they were wrong, instead of being able to admit that they have murdered innocent civilians for no good reason, they plod on. Happy with the knowledge that they are good soldiers who are loved a supported back home, and that no matter what they do, no matter what crimes they commit, they will still be loved and supported. For those that seem to have fallen in love with the killing, I can only wish that for the rest of their lives, they keep seeing the faces of those that they killed. Heaven knows I still do, and I didn't enjoy it one little bit.

But let's face facts the US military has not faced anything of much consequence since Vietnam. Grenada and Panama, Desert Storm was over
in no time once the ground war started. Mainly because the Iraqis retreated. Now the US is once again facing an enemy who is not afraid to die, and just like Vietnam, no one in command wants to change the tactics. They are fighting guerillas with conventional tactics, and as long as the generals are far enough away, they have little to no concern over the dead and dying. As long as they can make their Fuhrer
happy.

As for the chain of command, these are now Bush's Generals, and they like Hitler's Generals will say nothing that will upset Bush.

As for our military having morals or shame, remember Abu Ghraib?

That should be enough of an answer.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #16
45. They want to perfect their "urban warfare" tactics
They're trying to be the man that "solved" the urban warfare dilemna.

Of course, Ghenghis Khan, Alexander, and others knew the solution, genocide.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:42 PM
Response to Original message
21. again, this will create more hate against us.
Bush wants to bring about Armegedon.

:puke:
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
23. The press seems to be hyping this like some kind sadistic Pay Per View
event. We are being treated to a blow by blow build up. Who can tell what the purpose of this psyops treatment is?
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. ratings??
They all thought the election would be another 2000. And now like the start of the war, they will be be "pimping" the war in Iraq 24/7.
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radar Donating Member (447 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. What Is It RANDI RHODES
...Called it? "Green Screen?" News runs with the night vision cameras & the fancy graphics showing how "cool" war is. Disgusting.

Urban Operations: An Historical Casebook
"It is axiomatic in the military community that operations in an urban environment should be avoided if at all possible, given the costs they tend to exact in time, personnel, casualties, and supplies...."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/2002/urbanoperationsintro.htm
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. FALLUJAGRAD
Fallujagrad

The Real Iraqi Resistance has already left Fallujagrad..

The only ones remaining are a few die hards that want to kill as many amerikans as possible
before they die. They have set thousands of mines and booby traps.

The war in Iraq-Nam is only starting.

It will be the WARSAW GHETTO part 2



Jews surrendering at the end of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising, 1943.The photo is from SS-General
Juergen Stroop's report, "The Jewish Quarter in Warsaw No Longer Exists."
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Well, you have that right, I think.
Something needs to replace the "excitement" value of the election to attract viewers. This is one hell of a terrible "reality show" isn't it?
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
31. notice this article states: 300, 000 residents...
that was before the first bloodbath.

~~Nevertheless, U.S. and Iraqi authorities appear committed to a showdown with the city of an estimated 300,000 residents.~~

CNN's embed is reporting only 50,000 residents remain. And out of that number are the 3,000 so called insurgents. So that leaves 47,000 innocents that will either lose thier life, home or family. This is so incredibly sick.
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Barrett808 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #31
35. 250,000 internally displaced people
That's approaching the "humanitarian catastrophe" the * mobsters claim they avoided.
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ilovenicepeople Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #35
63. Time to double the Iraqi death count
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 11:55 PM by ilovenicepeople
I guess 100,000 is starting to sound boring.



Edit for tearful emoticon:cry:
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #31
46. Evidence of Iraqi society's resourcefulness
Edited on Fri Nov-05-04 06:10 PM by teryang
If an invading Army came into my neighborhood, I and most of my neighbors have no where to go.

I already know this from the last three hurricanes.

Iraq is a tenacious enemy. Wonder what the other 250,000 are gonna do when they find their homes bombed and neighbors dead? Do you think they are pissed off wherever they are now? What happens when they come home?
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daleo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #46
51. Throw flowers and sing victory hymns?
Well, that was the theory anyway.
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teryang Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #51
57. Thanks for the laugh!
...I needed it. Grim topic.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:13 PM
Response to Original message
34. lol...my fellow americans get an early example
of exactly what they voted for...when those triangle flags start coming home to moms and pops, all i'm going to say is deal with it, fuckos
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SoDesuKa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Deal With It?
The people who have to deal with it aren't necessarily Bush voters. That's the shame of it.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. i know not everyone over there voted for bush
but i know enough, if not most of them, did...(he probably got about 100 percent of the halliburton employee vote, too)
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
38. this headline should read
b**h's god demands additional sacrifice; Fallujah citizens chosen as appeasement...as long as we're fighting a 'holy war' we might as well be truthful - that's the moral thing 2 do, right?
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JohnOneillsMemory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
41. Thankfully, the US is short on bullets or someone would get hurt!
*sighs* ok, just a touch of outrage fatigue.

Atleast with Kerry capitulating his 'fight' there's more room in the news cycle for this atrocity.

Here's a rerun of my reaction to April's Fallujah massacre:


Regarding Numbers.

Check the president's approval numbers as
Fallujah buries its dead.
What's the death count?
What the hell?
Who knows

How many bodies shattered by munitions.
Or burned away by fire.

Or buried promptly according to custom.
Where ever possible.
At home. In a stadium.
On the side of the road.

Disappearing like targets in a video arcade. 'Pop.' All gone.

"The Marines are good at what they do," said the general.
How fortunate for the coalition of the willing.
Hired guns dont even count.
Under the table.

No accountability.

No damned numbers.

Not like Enron. We can understand loss in numbers.
But the bodies, like the books, are cooked.

No one we knew.
All gone.
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Az_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
47. This is too much like Nam....
we retake Fallujah, the insurgents take it back, we retake Fallujah, the in sergeants take it back......

:shrug:
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
54. It appears that the slaughter will begin shortly. n/t
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JoFerret Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
55. I keep reading these stories of how gung-ho they are
...poor innocent wicked fools.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
56. Annan warns against Falluja offensive
UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan has warned the United States, Britain and Iraq that an assault on Falluja could further anger Iraqis and undermine planned January elections.

Annan's warning came in letters to US President George Bush, British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Iraqi Interim Prime Minister Iyad Allawi sent late last week, UN officials said on Friday, speaking on condition of anonymity.

A UN spokesman said the world body would have no comment on the letters.

"We have nothing to say about private communications between the secretary-general and heads of state," the spokesman said.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/BBBE0759-6B44-4A50-A0CA-37D09C66F58B.htm
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beniciodeltoro Donating Member (60 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 09:51 PM
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59. US soldiers: May Satan take you all
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aneerkoinos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-05-04 11:07 PM
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61. Voice from Fallujah
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3986085.stm

Warning, very sad reading.

He estimates that there are about 100 000 people left in Fallujah, mostly men.

I wonder where does US militaly base these estimates about 3000 fighters on? Their world famous intelligence?

I wonder how many of those 60 000 - 100 000 men have weapon, know how to use a weapon, and are willing to defend their homes against foreign aggressor...

The ten thousand US thugs may be facing opponent that is two-five times more numerous, more determined, more angry than the Marines with their pride hurt, chink in their psychological armor. WWII, Vietnam and others showed that aerial bombing does not win the war, it just makes the oppenent more bitter and determined. Simply levelling the city won't work, the survivers can fight from the rubble, so ground forces need to engage. And to which side the loyalty of Iraqi troops supposedly controlled by Allawi goes is a big question...

So only 10 000 reliable fighting troops there? How many in Ramadi, which is even bigger town than Fallujah? What about when possibly thousands of fighters from Baghdad come out fighting? What will the Sadrists do? The real war is just beginning, and the outcome is not yet decided... US needs a quick victory, before the political and military cost goes too high. If Fallujah lasts for several weeks, goodby the image of US invincibility, wellcome the start of the fall of US military empire.

Sorry for the people of Iraqi and especially heroic people of Fallujah, they didn't choose this fight, it was forced upon them. I hope they do prevail and beat the Marines, and if they do, I will praise the foolish pride of those bastards Wolfie, Bush and Allawi that made the miracle happen.

Mosh, stomp, fuck U.S. of A.
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