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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:49 PM
Original message
Bin Laden speech in its entirety (Swedish Newspaper)
From Swedish Newspaper 'Aftonbladet' (online version).
Date: Saturday, Oct. 30
Translated by: CLiss
http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,5563...

*note: this speech is originally in arabic, translated to Swedish. Now translated to english. I've translated this as objectively as possible, without any embellishments. However, keep in mind that this is the 2nd version.

**moderators: I don't know what to do about the 4-par. rule. This is going to run over, but the link is in Swedish.

***also note that there is a segment of this speech which was not aired. Al-Jazeera will not comment on its contents.

=======================================

Bin Laden speech from Friday, October 29, aired on Al-Jazeera.

"You are Greedy and Proud"

My speech to you is about the best way for you to avoid any similar catastrophes, and the war, its underlying reasons and results. In connection with this, I want to say that security is an important foundation in every person's life, and that secure people do not ignore their own security.

If Bush claims that we hate freedom, then I would like for him to explain why we for example did not strike in Sweden. It's also known that those who hate freedom do not have such honorable souls, as those 19 martyrs, may God bless their souls. We have struggled against you because we are free people, who do not forget injustices. We want our nation to have its freedom once again. And just like you commit crimes against our security, we are also going to strike down against your security.

I am, however, puzzled about one thing. In spite of the fact that we have started the 4th year after 9/11, Bush is still continuing with his confusing tactics and his fog-banks (of obfuscation) toward you, and keeps the real reason away from you. Because of this, there is a realpossibility that what was done to you will be repeated.

I'm going to tell you the reasons for these events, and I'm going to politely account for you the times when we made the decision that you would have something major to think about. I would like to start by saying that God is my witness, and that at first we never had a thought about striking the Two Towers.

But when we had had enough, and with our own eyes saw the American-Israeli injustices and aggression towards our people in Palestine and Lebanon, the idea was born. The events that influenced me the most, and in the most direct way, was in 1982, with the subsequent events when the USA gave a green light to Israel to invade Lebanon with the help of the American 6th fleet.

During these difficult times, there were many thoughts which went around in my head. It was difficult to explain. However, these thoughts awoke in me an enormous motivation to refuse such injustice, and a desire to punish those who are so unfair.

When I stood and looked at the destroyed towers in Lebanon, the idea was born in my head: we must punish the unjust with the same tactic, by destroying the towers in the USA, so that they will get a taste of what we had to deal with, and to stop murdering our children and our women.

We had no difficulties in dealing with Bush and his administration, because of the similarity that exists between this administration and the regimes in our countries, the half of which is the military and the other half which is the sons of kings and presidents. We have a long history with these people.

However both types have a similar nature: and it is the great majority of them who are arrogant, proud and greedy and are known for taking money unjustly.

This similarity was striking with Bush the Elder when he visited in the area. At the same time, some of our people (the Saudis) were fascinated by the USA and were hoping that his visit to our countries might influence us; however Bush instead became influenced by these people and their regimes, and he started to envy them, as they sit there for many decades in their positions and are stealing their country's money with any kind of audits or control. After that, he took up the same method of repression and restricting freedoms which under the guise of the Patriot Act, under the cover of the War on Terror.

Bush the Elder liked the idea that his sons would take over power from the father. He has also not forgotten the tactics of his own skills at voter cheating, like in Florida, so he could use them in an emergency.

We are in agreement with the Highest Emir, Mohammed Atta, may God bless his soul, that all our operations would be executed within a 20-minute period, before Bush and his administration would snap into action.

It never occurred to us that the Commander in Chief for the American Army could let 50,000 of his own citizens meet the great danger in the two towers, at the time when they needed him the most. Instead, he was involved with the girl's story about the goat and how it rammed. That was more important for him than to pay attentin to the airplanes which rammed the skyscrapers.

It gave us a triple time-frame compared to what we had budgeted for ourselves to complete the mission. We thank God for that.

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study_war_no_more Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. wow
I think this man is serious.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. "We have a long history with these people.", " voter cheating, like in Fl"
now, we know why they didn't want it released. Thanks for the translation....
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htuttle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Here's another thing they probably snipped out of the US version
We had no difficulties in dealing with Bush and his administration, because of the similarity that exists between this administration and the regimes in our countries, the half of which is the military and the other half which is the sons of kings and presidents. We have a long history with these people.

However both types have a similar nature: and it is the great majority of them who are arrogant, proud and greedy and are known for taking money unjustly.


The way I read it, they bribed some US officials somewhere down the line. Don't remember reading about that in the 911 Commission report, do you? Maybe this has something to do with what Sibel Edmond's has been saying.

:shrug:
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Carolab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
47. Think he might be referring to the Saudi royal family
and his own family's affiliation with them and Bush. He broke with the Saudis because the allowed US bases on their land and with his family for their capitalist involvement, I believe.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. The paragraph that stuck out for me
I am, however, puzzled about one thing. In spite of the fact that we have started the 4th year after 9/11, Bush is still continuing with his confusing tactics and his fog-banks (of obfuscation) toward you, and keeps the real reason away from you. Because of this, there is a realpossibility that what was done to you will be repeated.


Wow, he says * is lying to us. We knew that but it's the rest of it that's interesting. He's basically saying because we don't understand the reasons the towers were hit, it might happen again.


Hmmm. where is that unbiased media? If they're out they might be able to save us from being hit again.
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SomthingsGotaGive Donating Member (485 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. Total BS
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 02:06 PM by SomthingsGotaGive
What about working with the infidels in Afghanistan in the 80's to expel other infidel occupiers the Russians.

This is so over the top it is scary to contemplate the motives for such a poor remake of history.

How can any sane person even begin to untangle all of this bull sh*t without going a little mad.


edit :

Bushco bullsh*t that is.




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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
61. I'm Shocked Bin Ladin never mentions the 100,000s killed in Iraq/Afghan
He's sounds like he too is of Royal monarchy as well.

He's made in the shade, without one person hounding him down.

I still believe he works for Bush(senior) directly. Here's why:

Poppy was infuriated with F911, and I feel that he asked
Bin Ladin for "another favor".......to do a Movie Review of F911
and scare all.( A ficticious nemisis)Bin Ladin makes no mention of any
other events that have calamitized this country and world at the hands of Bush. He's just focused on this movie.
Binladin's comments are tooooo provincial, narrow-minded for a
Terroists on the go.

What a high stakes deal!!!!(Bin Ladin and Poppy Bush)

Another perfect wag the dog.

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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #3
66. Why refer to 19 martyrs when we KNOW some are STILL ALIVE?
That is really strange to me.
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flying_blind Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #66
84. KICK
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indigobusiness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
4. Fascinating
Let's just end war.
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StrongbadTehAwesome Donating Member (623 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. self-delete
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 02:07 PM by Kaelinn
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
6. Well...I have to say I agree with his assessment of the Bush Family and
their view of "how to rule" and with his assessment of how Bush handled 9/11 and the warnings beforehand.

I would like to read the whole transcript and what was left out that AlJazerra has witheld.

If it's really "Osama" who knows. Or, if it's a Rove trick...who knows.
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Hog lover Donating Member (411 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
7. Trying to guess effect on our election makes my head spin
On one hand, if people actually pay attention to the OBL slams on the Bush family's ambitions and ineptness, they should vote for Kerry. On the other hand, each and every Republican I know simply ignores facts and logic, so the very reminder of a threat of terrorism might push some ignorant voters to Bushco.

Two factors on effect: turnout of base and effect on undecideds.

I am very interested in comments and other views on the possible effect of the OBL tape.
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On the Road Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
8. As Far as the Length Goes,
I don't think OBL will sue for unfair use. It's his speech.

It's a very interesting speech. Not only thoughtful, but informed. The remarks on Sweden and the Pet Goat were right out of the political press -- seems like OBL has been reading the newspaper.

I'm also struck by the conciliatory tone. Maybe he was shocked and humbled by having to run and hide.
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Ima Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
9. Thank you very much
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juliagoolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. Feb speech reference to Tora Bora
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 03:15 PM by juliagoolia
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Thanks for the link, JG.
I read the entire speech on the link. However, I see no overlap between the Swedish segment and the speech that was on the link.

??? Am I missing something? Or do we have creative translators, who like the art of embellishment? Notice how the Swedish version is very milque-toast; doesn't seem to have any brandishing of slogans, victory-type speech. The Arabic version is filled with slogans, religious references.

This is strange. I still do not believe that the link contains the entire speech. Al-Jazaeera made it clear they were withholding a portion of the tape, and will not comment on it.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. jeebus, OBL talk about Tora Bora
On 17 Ramadan, a very fierce bombardment began, particularly after the US command was certain that some of al-Qaeda leaders were still in Tora Bora, including the humble servant to God and the brother mujahid Dr Ayman al-Zawahiri.
The bombardment was round-the-clock and the warplanes continued to fly over us day and night.
War in Afghanistan
The US Pentagon, together with its allies, worked full time on blowing up and destroying this small spot, as well as on removing it entirely.
Planes poured their lava on us, particularly after accomplishing their main missions in Afghanistan.
The US forces attacked us with smart bombs, bombs that weigh thousands of pounds, cluster bombs, and bunker busters.
Bombers, like the B-52, used to fly over head for more than two hours and drop between 20 to 30 bombs at a time.
The modified C-130 aircraft kept carpet-bombing us at night, using modern types of bombs.
The US forces dared not break into our positions, despite the unprecedented massive bombing and terrible propaganda targeting this completely besieged small area.
This is in addition to the forces of hypocrites, whom they prodded to fight us for 15 days non-stop.
Every time the latter attacked us, we forced them out of our area carrying their dead and wounded.
'Alliance of evil'
Is there any clearer evidence of their cowardice, fear, and lies regarding their legends about their alleged power.
To sum it up, the battle resulted in the complete failure of the international alliance of evil, with all its forces, a small number of mujahideen - 300 mujahideen hunkered down in trenches spread over an area of one square mile under a temperature of -10 degrees Celsius.
The battle resulted in the injury of 6% of personnel - we hope God will accept them as martyrs - and the damage of two percent of the trenches, praise be to God
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. Unless ole Osama was using the royal "WE"
...he just called Tommy "We don't even think Osama was IN Tora Bora" Franks a fucking liar!
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
11. I'm not sympathizing with OBL but...
....How come people refuse to understand that these people attack America because we have a history of fucking them over. I doubt very much that OBL hates the American people, but yet it is being shoved down our throats that everyone over there hate us all.
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frylock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. i am in complete agreement with you..
but I have known these things for a long time now. Some people just can't seem to grasp the concept of cause and effect.
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54anickel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. Agree, and I have been saying that for quite a while. Our Pastor at
chruch was nearly run out of town when he petitioned all Americans to reflect on what we might have done to contribute to 9/11.

Anyway, OBL bringing up 1982 got me thinking about what was going on back then in Lebanon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982_Lebanon_War

snip>

On 6 June 1982, following an assassination attempt against its ambassador in London by the Abu Nidal Organization, Israeli forces under direction of Defense Minister Ariel Sharon invaded southern Lebanon in their "Operation Peace for the Galilee." They eventually reached as far north as the capital Beirut in an attempt to drive the PLO forces out of the country.

snip>

According to the journalist Robert Fisk (p. 277, 282), phosphorus shells and cluster bombs sold to Israel by the US under the condition they would not be used against civilians were used against Lebanese civilians by Israel, causing heavy undousable burns and many casualties, often to children.

Later in 1982 an agreement was reached and American, French and Italian peacekeepers sent the PLO survivors to surrounding Arab states. Philip Habib, Ronald Reagan's envoy to Lebanon, provided an undertaking to the PLO that the Palestinian civilians in the refugee camps would not be harmed. However, the US marines left West Beirut two weeks before the end of their official mandate. After the assassination of Bashir Gemayel, newly appointed President of Lebanon, Israeli forces occupied West Beirut. The Lebanese Christian Militia, also known as the Phalangists, allies of Israel, massacred 700-3000 Palestinians in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camp.

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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #11
60. I totally agree with you....The US govt. is always fucking with other
countries. I knew several years ago that it was only a matter of time. The rest of the world knew. The only people who didn't know were blind Americans who were just going about their daily lives, with no concern and no care what the US was really doing in other countries. Tit for Tat.
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Bhaisahab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #11
73. Been saying that for 3 years now
Every time the Bushies scream- "THEY HATE US FOR OUR FREEDOMS" and the crowds roar, I tear my hair out at the level of ignorance in America about their own foreign policy.
Us non-Americans have always known Osama struck you for decades of oppression- economic and political. I was hoping 911 would change forever that evil streak in American policy (AFTER getting those responsible for 911).

I wonder what it would take to shake off the shroud of ignorance, or apathy.. or whatever you may call it...
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ninainsf Donating Member (71 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
12. I don't get why this would help Bush?!?!
Frankly, I find myself in agreement with most of what he says. I think it makes Bush and his family look evil themselves. Do we think that the American people will not believe what he says? Not listen and simply think it's a crazy speech from a monster? IMO, this is a real opportunity for the US people to learn something about our foreign policy and how it affects fellow human beings in the world.
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Kimber Scott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. Some people will listen. Some people won't. There is a key to all of the
madness the world is suffering right now and it sits between the Israeli and Palestinian territories. He who finds the key saves the world. Let's hope John Kerry will move forward with an open mind and not blindly follow the paradigm that has brought us to the edge of the Apocolypse. I'm anxious on this point. I'm not sure he's the one, but with Bush, it's Apocolypse Now.
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schultzee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. I have always called the *'s the Ivy League Mafia, from the very
start. OMG what are we going to do if * is elected or steals it? He can't get the Europeans to help us out with the mess he made, and I worry about the karma he has created for our country.
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savistocate Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
82. Except..whatever he says will be rejected
even clearest facts coming from him. Bush supporters already in denial of and even clearest logic reject, and continue heads in sand or up *ush ***.

That and keep a majority in fear. Yet how it cannot penetrate that
after years the coup gov needs four more to get him, that boggles.
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MattP Donating Member (525 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 02:33 PM
Response to Original message
14. The BBC speech is old
That link hooks up with a old speech.
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juliagoolia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. you are right.. I misread it yesterday!
Geeeeeesh.. kick me.. not getting enough sleep.. too much canvassing and reading.. Im starting to misread now.
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rustydad Donating Member (753 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
19. Aljazeera Version
This link is to the transcript taken directly from the subtitles provided with the video. Seems rather short for an 18 min speech. Perhaps he talks very slow? Bob

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A...
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Cato1 Donating Member (174 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
22. Why do we support Israel?
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 03:39 PM by Cato1
Unconditional American support for that shitty little country is the single biggest reason for anti-American sentiment all around the world, especially in the middle east. I say we cut them loose.
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HR_Pufnstuf Donating Member (782 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
38. awesome.
good stuff.

israel IS the cause.

u know its true when the iraqis nickname our soldiers "the jews"..
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Say_What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #22
51. Israel--2nd largest recipient of US military aid after Egypt and before
Colombia

Israel's our ME watch dog just like Colombia is the Chihuahau for South America.



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flying_blind Donating Member (188 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #51
85. The Israeli govt and military receive $15,139,178* from the U.S. DAILY
Edited on Sun Oct-31-04 07:29 PM by flying_blind
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Charles19 Donating Member (353 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #22
76. If we did that there would probably be peace
and that wouldn't work out to well for the Repug's and Likud. The fuel that burns their fire is war and fear.
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Homerr Donating Member (187 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #22
89. I agree in general....
but -

A. Both parties want the Jewish vote, and don't want to be the ones accused of starting a second holocaust.

and...

B. Israel has a few nukes and would use them in a second to deny any/all Arab countries from gaining Israel.
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Chicago Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
24. wow
thank u
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skip fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
25. "we have started the 4th year after 9/11,"
Is it possible that this tape was made in Sept., intercepted by CIA or NSA personel, and only released Thurs. night to take the headlines away from the missing explosives?

I know there's many ways of reading this, but . . . ????
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. I think this was his "anniversary" tape
Kinda like giving a speech on the Anniversary of D Day, to his mind.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #28
37. and I beginning to think, it was held back
not sure by whom yet :shrug:
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sffreeways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #37
70. Or
Edited on Sun Oct-31-04 07:25 AM by sffreeways
it was timed to coincide with the report of the missing explosives. Give that one some thought for a good halloween fright fest.
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Mika Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. It is possible
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 04:21 PM by Mika
"Is it possible that this tape was made in Sept., intercepted by CIA or NSA personel, and only released Thurs. night to take the headlines away from the missing explosives?"



My thoughts exactly


Remember the reports of "lower levels of chatter" for the election a few days before the OBL tape surfacing?



Hmmmmm



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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
49. it's freaky how Eminem had this in his video
and then viola, here shows up OBL
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #25
53. Interesting. I translated the article exactly as it read
and that's what it said in Swedish. "We have started the year...."

Now, he must have made this tape after John Kerry was selected as the Democratic nominee, which was held in June?

Interesting time frame.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
26. well thats not the message we have gotten on the TV
Its a totally different message but I must say Osama

your right its Greed and your Brother and Sisters and Daddy did very well when you struck us!!!

So I agree Greed Greed Greed is an ugly ugly thing!!!

Bush is guilty of it. Cheneyis guilty of it and Osama you are guilty of it!!!
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hangloose Donating Member (554 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
29. Tend to believe it's not a Rove setup
So, lots of commentaries on the origin of the latest OBL tape. I cant tell you, who, what or where. But I tend not to believe it was a Karl set up only because of the first broadcast opportunity response from Bush. If you remember it was only yesterday. He made a statement at was appeared to be an airport.

If this was a set up you would have expected him to come out swinging, all cowboy like, but what I perceived was just the opposite. He seemed haggard, tired, weak and caught off guard. Now maybe he a great actor or .Karl is acting independently and Bush doesnt have a clue. Like OBL stated in his taped address..he would rather sit with children and talk about a pet goat.
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jdj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
50. Bush never had had a clue.
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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #29
64. I tend to believe that this tape is authentic.
As far as Bush* is concerned, com'on you know he is a fool and was and is probably still in shock from what OBL has told the America and the world of the Bushco deception to his own people just for the sake of greed and power. Unfortunately, nothing truthful has come out of Bush's* mouth. If he said that the grass was green, I would not believe him.
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wackywill Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 06:58 AM
Response to Reply #29
69. We give Rove way too much credit.
This admin is the gang that couldn't shoot straight.
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savistocate Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 07:22 PM
Response to Reply #69
83. Not Rove..but as closeas BFEE is to Saudis
in particular the Bin Ladens (and their having cut all ties to OBl
NOT likely) could be Sr cabal could negotiate when his tape wld
surface.

Bush and cohorts seem surprised (act?), but how surprised are
Saudi royals, especially hand holding Prince Bandar?
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carolinalady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
30. is this the total 18 minute speech?
Also am I missing something? the link is a sports page. Thanks.
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Anakin Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Well, Bin is a slow speaker.
:)
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chappaquadem Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. Much of speech missing
I'm confused. Previus reports have stated that THIS IS NOT THE WHOLE SPEECH...this is only the edited version of the speech...is there a link to the whole speech? Was this the entire speech that was shown to al-Jazeerah audiences?
In the intro to the translation of Bin Laden's speech on Al-Jazeerah's website, they say that, "Following is the English transcript of Usama bin Ladin's speech in a videotape aired by Aljazeera on Friday 29 October. In the interests of authenticity the transcript, which appeared as subtitles at the foot of the screen, has been left unedited."

See:
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A...
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Bjornsdotter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #30
42. Here's the link...
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Anakin Skywalker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
32. What a Damn Shame.
I was hoping to hear Bin say "I know George W. Bush. George W. Bush was a friend of mine". > :)
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crossroads Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
34. Bush and Son really stirred up a nest of hornets!
Greed and pride indeed... will not admit to his mistakes either... A man who will not learn from his mistakes is doomed to repeat them, but why must he drag the rest of US along with him?
:shrug:
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
36. Key points to keep in mind
To Osama's warped mind, this was a conciliatory speech. Note the absence, for the VERY first time, of ANY WEAPON in the shot. He appears, not like an insurgent rallying the troops from the battle lines, but rather like a statesman giving a political address. The business about not thinking about striking the towers makes me think about the five pillars of Islam--you hit our pillars, we will hit yours--that is what I am thinking is in his mind. His pillars are religious (faith, prayer, fasting, pilgrimage, charity) and to his mind, ours are greed and avarice. Now, if my western head copped to that idea, I am sure that every Islamic head was half a mile ahead of me.

I work from the TWO WRONGS school of thought. They don't make a right. Granted, we were insurgents once at the dawn of our nation, and we violated the then-established rules of warfare (don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes) but we did not go so far as to engage in wholesale slaughter of innocents to achieve our freedom. Of course, thanks to weecowboy's dumbass war, we have lost the high moral ground completely in that argument. And we (meaning the weecowboy, mind you) even went after the wrong playground bully in our lust to achieve some sort of faux revenge. It really is sickening.

But Osama is an asshole. He lost his opportunity to contribute to the debate when he sent Atta and the boyz to do their wicked and mendacious work. I'd shoot him myself if I could. Of course, since weecowboy has allowed his real enemy to escape unpunished, and to return to lecture us, his death will mean very little in the grand scheme--in fact, it could well ENERGIZE them at this point. They'll just find someone who is an even better speaker (and Osama is a silver tongued devil, make no mistake--he MESMERIZES his listeners with sweet words and powerful ideas) and who makes an even more vigorous and striking appearance.

The dogs of war have not only been unleashed, they are reproducing like fucking rabbits. Thanks a pile, Porgie!!!

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Catt03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #36
58. Also notice that he does not use Allah nor does he
have a gun in this one. Doesn't he always have a gun leaning up against the cave wall or somewhere near him.

He kinda looked and sounds like any other politician
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spotbird Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
39. Why do we think that this tape is current?
I've been out of circulation lately, so I've missed some developments.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
40. Hey I did pick up that Osama saw Farenheit 9/11
And did I read that right that because Bush sat on his A$$ that gave them another 20 minute window to Hit us again

the My Pet Goat comment must kick the Repub's in the stomache!!!

notice the girl's book and the rammed message

Ram is very signifcant in religious sects

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sr_pacifica Donating Member (775 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. It seems so!
Very interesting. OBL has been paying close attention.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 11:11 PM
Response to Reply #45
59. Hmmmm...........I still feel that Bush hired Bin Ladin for 911.
And yes he had an interesting movie review of Michael Moore
Fareignheit 911.

Poppy Bush has been so passionately furious at Moore's movie,
I sure he asked Bin Ladin to pull another scam.

Poppy needs to employ an ficticious nemisis to knee jerk this country.
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milburn Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. I read this tonight
I think that bin ladin is right because he knows that Bush started the fight. My Dad says that Bush is in the oil busness and that it is a fight between the people who have oil business. I am just a kid but why should I have all this problem becuase of Bush. My Mom and Dad have to work to much to help me and my sister. Why is Bush doing this now? I don't like bin laden but I want my family to be ok Bush hurts us.
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #62
74. That is one smart kid. Trying to put all the pieces together.
Bless his heart.

Imagine the future given to all our children via Bush!!!

It is worth the fight, isn't it.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #40
68. Any student of that day will know what bush was doing
I do not think that this means that he saw f911...who would have a keener interest in what went down than the one who is the figurehead for the group that did it?
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Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
43. Same reasoning as Tim McVeigh
Interesting parallel
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:06 PM
Response to Original message
44. Sorry
Maybe a lot was lost in the translation(s), but this Bin Laden speech does not seem authentic to me at all. I'm apparently the only person who thinks that. I base my doubts on my ear for language and my literary training. Sorry. This newest tape is very different in terms of language and cultural point of view. It just doesn't sound like Bin Laden to me. It doesn't have his themes. You have to really stretch to get a reference to the Koran. I agree with the person who said it sounds like Timothy McVey. The justifications for the terrorism fit the value system of an American or European, not of a very devout Muslim. This does not ring true to me.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. Ring true?
The tone of bin Laden's text sounds funny to me, too. But the "6th fleet" comment bothered me (it's in the Swedish and usual American translations, but not in the posting: "Israel att invadera Libanon med hjlp av den amerikanska sjtte flottan", "Israel invaded Lebanon with the help of the American 6th fleet").

While not of the movements of the US military in 1982 have necessarily been made public, the only reference that I can find to the 6th fleet's being active in Lebanon comes from a reference on globalsecurity.org's website in which a PLO commander, Haj Ismail, abandoned his post during the Israeli invasion. He showed up the next day in the Bekaa valley claiming that the 6th fleet attacked his position. Fleeing the IDF is shameful, but fleeing the 6th fleet, well, who wouldn't?

That sounds like the kind of rumor that routinely circulates among some extremist circles, but wouldn't be available to the average American.
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cliss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. Hi, Igil.
Welcome to the DU! :smoke: :toast:

I thought the strangest thing about Bin Laden's speech is how different it reads in the Swedish newspapers, compared to the US papers. What's going on? I was extra-careful with the text. The American text is incendiary, filled with slogans and saber-rattling.

Jag tycker det r underligt att svenskarna fr lsa mera uppriktiga nyheter n i det hr landet. Jag mste nstan alltid hnvisa mig till svenska nyheter fr att f fakta som jag kan lita p. Jag verstter ofta artiklar hr, s att lsarna fr en annan synpunkt.



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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
48. Bin Laden's alleged latest video and history
A couple of reasons to question whether Bin Laden made this most recent video.

In this latest video, Bin Laden claims he decided to strike the twin towers after seeing the damage done to the Lebanese towers in the Israel/Lebanon conflict in 1982. In 1982, however, Bin Laden was just getting involved in Afghanistan and in the fight against the Russians.

http://www.worldhistory.com/binladen.htm

Nothing in his actions at that time would indicate that he was thinking about Lebanon or Israel, much less attacking the twin towers in the U.S. If he had been so concerned about Israel and Lebanon, wouldn't he have spent his money in Lebanon instead of in Afghanistan?

Reagan viewed Bin Laden as a useful tool against the U.S.S.R. Reagan apparently began officially funding Bin Laden's activities in Afghanistan around 1985. Russia withdrew from Afghanistan some years later, and Bin Laden was preoccupied with fighting the Russians until they left.

http://www.cqs.com/binladen.htm

Previous stories have said that Bin Laden's anti-U.S. activities mostly started after the Gulf War and our stationing of troops in Saudi Arabia at that time. The statements in this latest video about Bush Sr. are somewhat consistent with what is known about Bin Laden. But, the Bin Laden speaking in this video seems to be concerned about things like fair elections and dealing with governments of military and hereditary leaders, not about establishing an Islamic state. That strikes me as odd and inconsistent with Bin Laden's ideology.

Alternatively, if this video is authentic Bin Laden, are we to believe that he is becoming more western in his thinking? I would like to hear what other people think about this.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
52. Where is Kerry?
The news sites were saying that he (OBL) mentioned Kerry, helping "date" this video to a more present time. It was something like "Neither Kerry or Bush can make you secure only you can." Something to that effect. Is this only a partial of OBL's speech?

Thanks for the translation!
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waldnorm Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #52
86. Good Question!
Where is that comment that he was supposed to make that our security was not up to Bush or Kerry but up to us? It's not in the Swedish translation?
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The Minus World Donating Member (634 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:16 PM
Response to Original message
55. It's Exasperating, I Know...
Edited on Sat Oct-30-04 10:18 PM by MagicalSpork
Without immediately concluding that this is, in fact, Osama; and then analyzing his purported message too deeply - there are some fundamental concerns that need to be addressed.

- Why are certain portions of the video being suppressed? They surely must have been the most damning bits of information to the American government.

- What benefit would Osama secure from alerting Americans to their government's wrongdoing when it has been proven that Bush is more of an asset to terrorist regimes than a liability. Since when has he been concerned with domestic issues, and so versed in the minutiae of American democratic culture (references to My Pet Goat)?

- How will public reaction to the video impact the presidential race, considering it has already become a politicized issue?

a.) If this is an overt anti-Bush statement, its release may be immediately damaging to Bush; however, it's very possible that Bush supporters will take the "don't trust Osama: if you're anti-Bush, you're a terrorist" concept into the abyss, labeling democrats as domestic terrorists.

b.) If this is an anti-American Way of Life statement, it indicts both Bush and Kerry; both of whom have failed to use their public platform to address the geopolitical realities of Peak Oil and American imperialism. I tend to believe that, if the tape is legitimate, it would fall into this category, since it reflects popular world sentiment about the increasingly apparent state of unsustainability of the American lifestyle.

c.) If this is a pro-Regime Change statement, Bush supporters will press on the idea that, "If we elect Kerry, we'll be caving in to a terrorist's demands."

Since the national media has largely ignored the message itself in favor of focusing on the messenger, how could we expect Americans to do the same? Rational discourse may be abundant here on DU and in the ether of more democratically-minded sites, but most of America will still follow the carrot on a string - wherever the media leads them.

We have learned enough in the past four years to know that all truth is spun, and all spin favors Bush and the ruling elite.
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blackowl Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. The last tape was phony...
...and Bin Laden originally denied involvement, claiming it was an "inside job". Why change his tune? On the eve of the election? This is too perfect...





Does he have a plastic surgeon up in that cave?

Bush takes a six-point lead after new bin Laden tape

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/20...



This intense thriller is a work of fiction with a factual basis. Aidan Quinn stars as Annibal Ramirez, an American naval officer with a striking resemblance to real-life international terrorist Carlos "the Jackal" Sanchez, the scourge of innocent people all over the world in the 1970s and '80s. Mistaken for Sanchez by the Israeli Mossad, Ramirez is arrested but subsequently recruited by the Mossad and the CIA to pose as Sanchez and set him up as a traitor to his underwriters. Ramirez leaves his family, receives training in all aspects of Sanchez's life, and is pulled into the netherworld of terrorism and espionage. Director Christian Duguay (Screamers) wisely emphasizes character growth over obligatory action, drawing compelling portraits of an American intelligence official (Donald Sutherland) preoccupied with Sanchez, his Israeli counterpart (Ben Kingsley), and Ramirez himself, a man whose identity has merged with a monster's. --Tom Keogh
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chappaquadem Donating Member (30 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-30-04 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
57. So, all that was edited out was criticism of Bush?
see http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/29/terror/main65...
"This official, who was briefed on the entire tape, said much of what has not aired amounts to a sustained diatribe against President Bush and his father, former President George H.W. Bush. It even criticizes the current president's economic and jobs programs and contends that the Iraq war is all about oil, the official said. "

This is what Bush and co. asked al-Jazeerah not to show us?

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cambie Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
63. A fascinating historical detail.


OBL saw those buildings and as a direct result targeted the towers. Nothing to do with hating freedom.

Opposite the hospital an entire five-story residential block disintegrated in fire and smoke as three separate Israeli salvos pulverized the building. Robert Fisk, London Times.

The woman told me that her husband and two children were buried in what had been an eight-story apartment building, leveled by a bomb from an Israeli jet. As she started giving me her name through English-speaking rescue workers, a massive blast hit the area. The woman fell dead, her right chest blown apart by shrapnel. Samuel Koo, Associated press.

Many reporters were there trying to tell us. We must not have been listening.


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Tight_rope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #63
65. READ THIS COMMENT: I find it fascinating!
Edited on Sun Oct-31-04 04:01 AM by Tight_rope
Mr. Bush held a videoconference call with national security adviser Condoleezza Rice and the heads of the CIA, FBI and departments of Justice and Homeland Security.

White House spokesman Scott McClellan said the president directed them to make sure any necessary action is taken with regard to the tape.

McClellan did not say what steps were being taken or contemplated. He played down the possibility of the administration raising the threat advisory level, currently at "yellow," or elevated, for most of the country.

Also Saturday, several hundred homeland security officials and some police chiefs held a conference call to discuss the tapes. Security at polling places on Tuesday was among the concerns and questions they raised.http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/10/29/terror/main65...

Now what I find interesting is that Bush* has told them to "NOT" release the full contains of the tape in it's entirety to the public. Why the hell is that? Yet they should beef up security at the polling places on Tuesday. This shit sounds damn fishy. What is on that tape that would cause such a reaction. I'm inclined to believe that there is something on that tape that would scare the hell outta alot of people and that it would even cause the repukes to change their mind about who they should vote for on Tuesday.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #65
90. Only OBL saying W stole the election!
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OETKB Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 05:29 AM
Response to Original message
67. Keep the context
Here we are reading words from a man on a "wanted poster" that seems to have some ring of truth. So what's the problem. The guy's a murderer and hence a criminal. However, he can be right as rain, but the greater good is the rule of law. This is what is wrong in all our machinations with dealing with his tactics. It is not plausible to have a "war on terror." The ends do not justify the means. Therefore he must face the rule of law, not vigilante justice. If we do not do this, I fear, a constant return to the use of terror to gain political goals.

This revolutionary's words should be used to plan a response, not an attack. We should not be put off by this administration's words that we have no other way to deal with them because they are "killers." The answer imho is to marshall a nonpartisan, global intelligence, police, and diplomatic effort to bring some sanity back into our lives. We are talking about the survival of the human race and both OSB and Mr. * are blind to realities of resorts to violence. It's time we called a spade a spade. In fact, we are going to have to hold Mr. Kerry after his election to the same standard, and, from my point of view it is not going to be easy.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
71. This tape is not addressed to his followers, but to us
he is using western language (wasn't he educated in England?)
he wants to influence the election, he wants to maintain the status quo that serves him. he is smart enough not to make a direct statement on this, but instead adopts a "spoiler" stance (see "Nader" for details)
The hope here is to keep people from voting.
I cannot say if the BFEE/Bin Ladin entreprise (Carlyle) was directly involved in soliciting his services or this was an OBL initiative. He is enough of a megalomaniac to want the feeling that he decides this country;s future - but not dumb enough to risk helping along a regime change to a more competent leader.

So, while the planning may have not existed, he did make BFEE a gift (again) and it was received as such - see what W's operative boast:

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/247753p-212149c ....
See tape as boost for Prez
We want people to think 'terrorism' for the last four days," said a Bush-Cheney campaign official. "And anything that raises the issue in people's minds is good for us."
A senior GOP strategist added, "anything that makes people nervous about their personal safety helps Bush."
He called it "a little gift," saying it helps the President but doesn't guarantee his reelection.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
72. Any truth in WH asking Al jazeera to truncate? They leave out this:
"Bush the Elder liked the idea that his sons would take over power from the father. He has also not forgotten the tactics of his own skills at voter cheating, like in Florida, so he could use them in an emergency."
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
75. AAR just confirmed: Secr of state asked Al jazeera not to broadcast
the OBL tape. Guess they settled for leaving out the stolen election paragraph.
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #75
77. Link?
Edited on Sun Oct-31-04 10:11 AM by Heidi
Hi, robbedvoter, and thanks more than you can know for that update. Do you have a link? I'm trying to convince a handful of "undecided" acquaintances that the news they get in the U.S. is not necessarily the news the rest of the world sees.

(edited for typo)
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goforit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. Now why would they keep this out of view? Class warfare?
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Ohio rules Donating Member (283 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
79. Where is the part about not attacking Sweeden?
Did they in Sweeden edit that part out ?
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nytemare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
80. What I see
Some of the talking heads think this video was a gift to Bush. I think even Fox viewers are having a different interpretation. The latest Fox poll has the horse race tied at 46. Traditionally this poll had Bush up by at least 5. If this was a gift to Bush, more than any other poll the Fox one should have seen Bush expand his lead, but it is a tie now.

Despite what the re-pundits say, I saw a very calm, collected Osama, he appeared to be in good health, and NOT AT ALL WORRIED about what Bush was going to do to him, or what Bush promised to do to him. There was Bin Laden telling the country how Bush's inaction and greed is allowing Bin Laden to get away with the attacks. He was not on the run, not hiding out in a cave, and not concerned in the least about Bush's rhetoric. Bush helps Bin Laden. The news has been piling up against Bush, and maybe some are just starting to understand where the real war on terror should have been taken to, namely this asshole who is allowed to make this video tape over 3 years after he killed 3000 of our people.
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drh Donating Member (11 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-31-04 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
81. CNN terrorist analyst just confirmed Kerry on Tora Bora war lords
CNN terrorist analyst (Bergen) just confirmed in an interview with Wolf Blitzer that Americans did not play a significant part in the battle of Tora Bora. He said "there were more journalists than American soldiers in Tora Bora" and that the data certainly "confirms that OBL was involved and probably injured" at Tora Bora. This is contrary to Bush's claims to the contrary.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #81
87. CNN also confirms OBL talked about Halliburton on the tape
and AL Jazeera has released a full transcript in English.
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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #87
88. link here:
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. the full transcript...
...deserves its own thread, don't you think?

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maddezmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #91
92. go for it....I've probably over posted today :)
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CitySky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-01-04 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #91
93. just did it
I agreed.
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