Ohio Provisional Ballot Ruling Reversed (Judge backs vote theft)

[villager]

Ohio Provisional Ballot Ruling Reversed



CINCINNATI - A federal appeals court on Saturday reversed a lower court's ruling that Ohio voters could cast provisional ballots on Election Day anywhere in the county in which they are registered.


The 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that a provisional ballot cast outside a voter's home precinct isn't valid, agreeing with Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell. Federal law allows people to get provisional ballots if they are in the right jurisdiction. Blackwell, a Republican, defines that as a precinct, while Democrats say it's the voter's county.

The state's Democrats had filed a lawsuit challenging Blackwell's directive instructing county elections boards not to give ballots to voters who come to the wrong precinct and to send them to the correct polling place on Election Day.

<snip>


http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041023/ap_on_el_pr/ohio_ballots&cid=694&ncid=716

[bayby]

1. So each precinct is a "jurisdiction" ? What a crock !

[BrendaStarr]

37. Make a big stink about this on mixed boards!

Get this out.

The news media will never play this up.

It's up to us.

[Zorra]

2. Jurisdiction is defined as "the territorial range over which an authority

extends".

A voter is a resident of, and subject to the laws, and authority of, a county, not a precinct.

I do not see how any judge worth a shit can interpret a precinct as being a jurisdiction.

[villager]

6. key here is "judge worth a shit"

Not the kind the GOP appoints...

[SoCalDem]

3. Cue banjos.. Dueling judges

This is why we NEED a standardized PAPER BALLOT for national offices..one that is used in ALL states..

If the states want to buy diamond-studded , solid platinum DRE's to elect dogcatchers and city councilmen..let them.. But for offices that impact ALL OF THE OTHER citizens, we need recountable, easy-to-understand ballots..

Registration should be easy, and voter cards MUST be a part of the process..Proof of citizenship/a photoID, and proof of residence in a community/state should be all that's necessary.. It's no one's business which party you favor.. If one wants to vote in a primary, they can declare themselves, but for a national election, no one should even care what party you are..

Voting is supposed to be by secret ballot,, right??right??

[papau]

35. Still it is a victory for Dems that Provisional Ballot MUST be accepted for

later review.

:-)

[The Magistrate]

4. Doubtless A Panel Of Two Or Three Republican Appointees

The only law these reptiles will consider is the detstation for democracy of their fellow reactionaries....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[Fridays Child]

5. In AZ, for example, you can walk your absentee ballot into any...

...precinct in the county, on the day of the election. That supports the assertion that jurisdiction is defined by county lines, not by precincts.

[LiberalFighter]

21. Should had argued that county election board is lowest govt jurisdiciton

therefore county lines

[gatlingforme]

31. good point, here in my county in IL we are still trying to figure out

what rules apply to the provisional ballot.... eeeek. but I am keeping up with what is going to happen, I hope they see this as a county issue and not precinct. :smoke:

[bones_7672]

7. Another article on judge's ruling

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20041024/D85TFEK80.html

[Waverley_Hills_Hiker]

8. The 6th Circuit is pretty conservative....Dems gotta work hard...

The decided that Romer v Evans did not apply to the anti-gay amendment to the Cincy charter.

&&&&&&

So, this means that the Dems need to make extra-sure their folks know where their polling place is.

Especially since the GOP has a telephone campaign going on telling people their polling place has changed and directing them to thw wrong precinct.

[Laelth]

9. The only circuit that's more conservative ...

is the 5th. Yet another reason to get rid of Shrub.

This ruling is a travesty. Surely the right to vote is fundamental and is subject to strict scrutiny. What kind of "compelling interest" could the state possibly have had to insist that provisional votes cast in the wrong precinct would not be counted? If, when the ballots are all tallied, it appears that someone has voted twice, all the state has to do is discard one or all of the ballots from that person. There's not even a remote possibility of fraud.

The court's ruling is absolutely absurd!

STEAMING MAD! :mad:

-Laelth

[qanda]

10. I was trained last night to be an election judge for my county

And I'm telling you all now that election day is going to be ONE GIANT MESS! The Diebold machines, the provisional ballots, the dreaded poll watcher and the new identification regulations for new voters all present election day nightmares for our country. I'm in Maryland so I don't know what other will have to face, but if it's anything like whatI imagined after my training last night we are in for a long day on November 2.

[blue sky at night]

11. I hate to sound like I'm pissing on the parade..

But just why is it so damn hard for people to find their polling place?? Are they that stupid or what.....doesn't anyone have faith in basic common sense anymore, or do we have to hold everyones hand and guide them all the time? This whole argument is moot if only people could take responsibility for themselves and FIND the FREAKING polling place a couple of days before hand.

[mzmolly]

13. That would be logical if Republicans weren't calling people lying

to them about where to vote. :hi:

[Freddie Stubbs]

14. Have they been doing that?

:shrug:

[intheflow]

23. Yep.

[Freddie Stubbs]

26. Do you have a link for that?

:shrug:

[intheflow]

27. Here's the link

to the Columbus, Ohio NBC affiliate, Oct. 22, 2004:

Headline:
Voters Receive Phony Phone Calls About Wrong Polling Locations

http://www.nbc4i.com/politics/3843020/detail.html

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. Thanks

[farmbo]

15. Hello...most of the errors are from the Board of Elections

Who send out a confirmation with the wrong precinct and poll address.

You pay for their mistake under Blackwell's perverted reading of HAVA.

[Zorra]

19. Republicans have refined election fraud to an art. Here is one example

of why people can not find their polling place:

U.S. Sen. John Kerry's presidential campaign is accusing Lackawanna County officials of potentially disrupting voting with last-minute changes in polling places for 27 precincts, all heavily Democratic.

Mark Nevins, chief spokesman for the Kerry-Edwards campaign in Pennsylvania, said Monday the county violated state election law by not having a required public hearing on the changes.

The timing raises questions about county officials' intent, he said.

"These are polling places that have been in operation for 25 years," Mr. Nevins said. "The Republican-controlled board of commissioners decides they're going to randomly close polling places in Lackawanna County and surprise, surprise, they're in Democratic precincts."

http://www.scrantontimes.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=13069842&BRD=2185&PAG=461&dept_id=415898&rfi=6

Republicans are doing sneaky, corrupt things like this all over the country.

[LiberalFighter]

22. And if they change the polling place the day before?

[sundancekid]

28. here's an example: in my area, if you move ACROSS THE STREET

from where you lived, you're in a DIFFERENT precinct -- not exactly an intuitive or commonly thought result; so, you didn't re-register, and then, on election day, you end up going to the "wrong" precinct to vote;
but, I do get your valid point, too

[dansolo]

38. The Republicans have been changing polling places

There have been numerous instances where polling places, where people have been voting for years, if not decades, have silently been changed. I heard that in Ohio this was especially problematic. That is why allowing provisional ballots is so important.

[Roland99]

12. DNC needs to keep hammering on this. This is Unconstitutional!!

I was unaware that precincts exercised authority or issued legislation. I thought the jurisdiction was the county. Ever seen a Precinct cop car? Ever gone to a Precinct hospital? Ever been in violation of a Precinct law?

[Laelth]

16. Well ...

from my understanding Ohio's Republican legislature passed a law saying that provisional ballots must be cast in the voter's precinct. I assume that's the law in Ohio, anyway. That's what I've read here.

The question is whether that law is Constitutional. Were I the attorney arguing for the right to cast a vote anywhere in the county, I'd say that the state's law impermissably infringes upon the fundamental right of the people to vote. There's no good reason for Ohio's law, but, at the same time, some people might be disenfranchised by it. Thus, the law should be deemed an unconstitutional, impermissible infringement on a fundamental right (the right to vote), unless it meets strict scrutiny, i.e. the state has a compelling interest in having people cast provisional ballots in their home precincts and the state's law is the least intrusive means of achieving that state interest (whatever the R's claim it is).

Hope that makes sense. ;)

As far as I know, it's not a question of jurisdiction. It's a question of the constitutionality of that Ohio law.

-Laelth

[Gman]

17. This may be much ado about nothing

here in Texas it has always been the rule on election day that if you go to the wrong precinct place to vote, you're sent to the correct one. Usually the precinct judge will give you the address and, out of courtesy, directions how to get there.

I really don't think there would be significant disenfranchisement over this.

[Laelth]

20. I hear ya.

But after the last election, any disenfranchisement is significant in my book.

:toast:

-Laelth

[Laelth]

18. The 6th Circuit's Website Is Being Swamped

I can't get a copy of the slip opinion from there. Didn't see one on FindLaw, either. Surely there was a dissent, and I'd like to read them both.

Can anyone find a copy of the opinion? If so, link please. Thanks.

-Laelth

[WCGreen]

24. You could make a cae for this based on one thing....

Precincts determine whether or not liquor can be sold within the boundries. It is a political jursidiction in that sense. I think the Blackwell arguement stems from this. They are saying a person voting provisionally would be disenfranchising themselves by not allowing them to vote on the whole slate.......

PRecicnts also set the boundries for congressional and state rep seats especially in a county as large and populated as Cuyahoga.

So I can see the reasoning, I just don't agree with the ruling......

[Sinnerman]

33. Freakin Cheaters

I think that decision is utterly wrong. There needs to be complete election reform. I knew this would happen. It is 2000 all over again
& I bet Come Tuesday night 2 or 3 states are to close to call & we are going to have a legal fight til December again

Dam those Repukes

[xultar]

25. So why have provisional ballots??? n/t

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:

[6th Borough]

30. Hmmph. So much for State's Rights. /NT

[Laelth]

34. States' rights?

Surely you're not suggesting that a state ought to be able to deny a citizen his or her constitutional right to vote. Certainly, the Constitution must prevail when it conflicts with state law.

Perhaps I misunderstand your position or the issue in this case.

-Laelth

[gatlingforme]

32. The problem is the Fed law is too ambiguous.

[dolstein]

36. This shouldn't be a problem, but it probably will be

It ought to be easy for people to figure out where their polling place is located. Unfortunately, I suspect that isn't the case in many jurisdictions.

My big concern is that some polling places might have shifted around at the last minute, or some vote might have recently changes addresses, so that, despite reasonable efforts on the part of the voter, they end up at the wrong polling place. Unfortunately, many of these people will choose to vote on a provisional ballot rather than make the additional effort to determine whether or not they went to the wrong polling place.