N.M.: Some Voters Say Machines Failed, Incorrect Choices Appear on Screens

[Newsjock]

http://abqjournal.com/elex/246845elex10-22-04.htm

By Jim Ludwick
Journal Staff Writer

    Kim Griffith voted on Thursday— over and over and over.

    She's among the people in Bernalillo and Sandoval counties who say they have had trouble with early voting equipment. When they have tried to vote for a particular candidate, the touch-screen system has said they voted for somebody else.

    ... She went to Valle Del Norte Community Center in Albuquerque, planning to vote for John Kerry. "I pushed his name, but a green check mark appeared before President Bush's name," she said.

  ... Michael Cadigan, president of the Albuquerque City Council, had a similar experience when he voted at City Hall.

    "I cast my vote for president. I voted for Kerry and a check mark for Bush appeared," he said.

more

[loveable liberal]

1. Diebold CEO did say he would deliver * a win..... nt

[saracat]

2. This is baaad! We need to alert this!

[Randi_Listener]

3. This is FUCKED UP

Why do we NEVER hear stories about ballots being cast erroneously for Fuckface? The motherfuckers will stop at nothing.

[Tansy_Gold]

9. Read the article.

It clearly states that there were problems when people tried to vote for boosh --

<snip>
In Sandoval County, three Rio Rancho residents said they had a similar problem, with opposite results. They said a touch-screen machine switched their presidential votes from Bush to Kerry.
<end snip>

I don't trust the touch screens either, but I do think it's only fair to read the entire article before making certain claims.

[Randi_Listener]

13. Funny, I don't recall making a claim

I made an observation about never hearing about the contrary scenario. Any questions?

[LivingInTheBubble]

29. Then you need to start reading the articles you are commenting on...

[aquart]

4. My first, most base and basic instinct

Is that I want people there with guns.

But what we really need are geeks with warrants. Who runs NM?

[Eye and Monkey]

5. "it's a people problem."

<snip>
"it's a people problem. I have confidence in the machines," she said. "They are touch screens. People are touching them with their palms, or leaning their hand. ... They're hitting the wrong button."
<snip>

Sick. And it's getting sicker.

[DoYouEverWonder]

22. Then just give us back a friggin paper ballot and pen

Yes people are dumb, people will do stupid things. These systems are confusing and unreliable but that is what BushCo is counting on. They know Bush can't win a fair and free election, he certainly didn't win the last one, why would anyone think he could win this one?

[Supersedeas]

44. exactly, folks ought to have the option

[aquart]

6. "Some " is HOW MANY???????????????

[Cobalt Violet]

7. This election is going to be the biggest mess.

Why does this country have so many voting problems.

[bullimiami]

17. it is a mess by design

there is no other possible conclusion.

[wildeyed]

37. Yes.

I read a great quote the other day. Something like, if a mistake benefits a republican, expect them to continue making it until they are forced to stop by law enforcement personnel.

[mhr]

8. BBV - TX - ES&S iVotronic Machines - Straight Democratic Ticket

Sometimes selects straight Republican ticket.

Sample size on these reports is very small.

This needs to be watched by all poll watchers monitoring polls with ES&S machines.

[ParanoidPat]

11. Message received loud and clear!

:evilgrin: :toast:

[Carolab]

10. WHAT IN THE HELL IS WRONG WITH PAPER BALLOTS????

WE USE OPTICALLY SCANNED PAPER BALLOTS HERE IN MINNESOTA AND HAVE FOR YEARS WITHOUT INCIDENT. THIS E-VOTING THING IS JUST PLAIN FUCKED UP AND THERE IS NO LOGICAL REASON FOR THESE MACHINES AT ALL!!!!!!!

[OutsourceBush]

16. ES&S, Diebold, Sequoia - tries with CNP, Bushes, Carlisle Group

The three major voting machine companies in the US.

Owned / controlled by far right religious groups. Members and supporters of the far right extremist group CNP to be more precise. Connected to Bush family and Carlisle Group according to internet research.

They appear to believe that only Christians should be allowed to vote. They are God's chosen and they will 'help' you vote for God's plan whether you like it or not.

read here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1108892#1127446

and here

http://www.ecotalk.org/VotingMachineCompanies.htm

[The Doctor.]

53. They may consider themselves 'Christians'

but they're going to have a VERY hard time getting into 'heaven' with all of us barring their way.

[sherilocks]

20. We use optical scanners, too

and the error rate is less than 1%. And I live in Florida. But they also can make mistakes. In Volusia county there were machines that had a hardware problem in 2000, giving Bush too many votes.

http://www.votersunite.org/info/content/mess-up_071204.asp

<snip>

"The memos show that more than a year ago, Diebold knew of a problem with the Florida 2000 election - where a memory card inexplicably subtracted 16,022 votes from a total previously recorded for Vice President Al Gore.
Tampering was one of four possible causes Diebold couldn't rule out at the time, the memos show. A year later, Diebold's latest official position on Florida's Volusia County vote count still does not rule out tampering. Company spokesman Bear said recently only that he was not familiar with the aberrant vote count in Volusia County.
"The problem precinct had two memory cards uploaded," wrote Diebold tech Tab Iredale in one of the memos among Diebold employees. "There is always the possibility that 'the second memory card' came from an unauthorized source."
Allen said, "The e-mails confirmed what we suspected - Diebold upper management knew of the problem."* "

[Kolesar]

26. Optical scanners need to have the light & photosensor checked at intervals

The LEDs that supply the light tend to get weaker with age. This may cause a misread. A diligent BOE will stay on top of this

[Flammable Materials]

25. No Logical Reason ... Precisely.

The only reason these machines exist is to obfuscate, manipulate and corrupt the voting process. Why else do you think that Republican politicians have worked hard to overturn desperate pleas for a paper trail?

[neomonkey]

12. Report your incidents here, also - Bev Harris

http://www.blackboxvoting.com/

Please let us know about any unusual experience you have while voting on a touchscreen voting system. When you report to us, we need to know:

1) Who you are and how we can get in touch with you (email address, phone number).
2) Where you are (city, state, voting precinct).
3) What kind of machine did you vote on (brand and model number).
4) What happened.
5) The names of anyone you spoke with about the problem (poll workers, precinct captains, election officials).

You will be kept annonymous if you wish.

Email your reports to:

david#blackboxvoting.com

Important - To eliminate spambots harvesting this address, I''ve stuck a "#" in the address. Please remove this and replace with the "@" symbol. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[Andy_Stephenson]

55. Report to [email protected]

the .com site is not affiliated to Bev in any way shape form or fashion.

[Occulus]

14. This may be due to the touchscreens THEMSELVES

Touchscreen monitors use an average to determine where on the screen you touch. We have touchscreen kiosks in my postal plant for employee use for things likt the Thrift Savings Plan, medical plan information, and other employee data. So I decided to try an experiment: what happens if you touch the screen in more than one place at the same time?

As it turns out, the screen averages the contacts. So, if you touch the screen in two distinct points at the same time, the software selects a spot at the midpoint between the two touches. I'd like to stress something here: this is due to the technology itself, NOT the installed processing software. This doesn't need to be coded in; it's a result of how the touchscreen itself works.

I'm wondering if that's what happened here.

[area51]

27. I believe you,

however, I have a hard time believing that most people having problems voting are due to touching 2 places on a touch-screen voting machine at the same time.

[Occulus]

52. Really, it doesn't take much

Not at all. A simple brush of the fingers is enough. That's why touchscreens are dangerous to use in voting.

"mis"calibration is also a likely cause, as the other responder to my post stated.

[Roland99]

33. And someone could PURPOSEFULLY Miscalibrate the touchscreen

I've done it before when testing some software for a firm where I used to work.

[DeepModem Mom]

15. Thanks for posting -- I fear widespread chaos, which the Bush cabal...

is expert at using to their advantage.

[burrowowl]

18. ABQ not Diebold machines

but bears watching!

[NVMojo]

19. this has been planned for about four years...

the faulty machines and the chaos. Then they can put martial law in place and freeze Bush permanently into the Presidency. Then we will see civil war.

Why they even put the HAVA law into place and provided all the little Repuke Secretary of States the funds to buy the little bastard machines like they did in Nevada. Where Rove has family in Reno and ties up the ying yang.

[leftchick]

21. Greg Palast predicted this....

I saw him on C-Span this week. He was asked about voting problems in this election and he said keep your eyes on NM, it could be this year's FL of 2000!

[highnooner]

23. Paper Ballots

That is the way we need to go. The votes can be talled and reported within several hours. A winner would be fairly obvious by the 11pm news.

[leftchick]

24. won't happen....

It is much easier for the repukes in charge to cheat with the DREs....

:(

[OutsourceBush]

28. Correct, especially since they own the 3 major voting machine companies

[SoCalDem]

30. Demand paper and only vote for president/congress/senate

That's the only way around this mess..

If states want to have local/statewide/referendum votes, let them do it on odd years.. Leave the even years for people to vote for the people who represent them nationally..

How mnany times have you seen people come to blows or snap at each other over prop 23 or Measure F??

People expect that when they donate time and or money to candidates, that the elections will be ACCURATE... screw FAST & EASY..

I WANT ACCURATE..


Most states have proven in recent years that they CANNOT accurately run elections that coimbine all the issues/offices and candidates.. The ballots sre too big and too complicated.. They have tried to "solve" their problems by spending bazillions on quirky,non-secure computers, instead of doing the EASIEST/most accurate and cheapest thing..

Paper...(a 5 x 7 card would do) and a permanent marker...and a scanner..

Surely the names would fit on 3 columns..

[cthrumatrix]

31. time to go to PAPER and PEN.....NOW....WTF is this all about

[Jasper 91]

32. Here in the UK

We have the old-fashioned paper ballots , where you put a cross by the name of your chosen candidate . We have always had the results no later than the early hours of the following morning .

I know that every state values its independence and its right to run elections as it sees fit , but isn't it about time to make a uniform , simple system that is all but fool-proof , to stop mistakes happening . Every state should go back to paper ballots and there is no reason why your results shouldn't also be in early the next day .

[KansDem]

34. I'm with you on this...!

I can't believe we're seeing the same thing this time around as we saw last time. It's like we haven't learned anything from our last experience!

KEEP IT SIMPLE! We should be using paper ballots. And the election should be nationalized! NO MORE screwups!

[TrogL]

46. Canada uses paper and the results are in time for the 11 p.m. news

The City of Edmonton has used scanners for years with no reported problems. I've been a poll and election worker and we take our politics seriously here. If there was a problem, it would be front-page news with people in handcuffs.

What is the problem touch-screen is supposed to be solving?

[duhneece]

35. We are having the same problem in Otero County, NM

I'd heard a gentleman had the same problem voting in Alamogordo NM. I went to our (Republican) County Clerk and was told the gentleman gave them a statement saying that ultimately he ended up satisfied with his voting experience. I asked for a copy of his statement and was told I could pick it up when they'd typed it up in a couple of days. I went back on Wednesday & was told the County attorney told them not to release the statement. I called the County attorney and he told me it was NOT a statement but part of a memo from County Clerk to Atty (attorney-client privelege). Yesterday, I got together with the gentleman and he gave me a written, signed statement detailing how his intended vote for County clerk kept registering for the opposing candidate, and he had problems with voting for a write-in candidate. Ultimately, he was satisfied that his vote registered correctly, but he hadn't considered that other people may have had their intended vote mis-registerd...
I will pass this info to BBV, VoterVerified NM, Secretary of State, ACLU...any other suggestions?

[Polemonium]

40. report to DNC, and local Dems too - lawyers at the ready n/t

:(

[RaleighNCDUer]

36. Well, that's some really bad programming.

What's supposed to happen is that you vote Kerry, the check mark checks on Kerry, but the recorded vote goes to shrub.

Cheating is supposed to leave you wondering; leave you with that niggling doubt that it's not right, the way a pickpocket leaves you wondering "I thought I had it right here". This is no pickpocket -- it's in your face armed robbery.

Can't they get anything right?

[NewYorkerfromMass]

38. Well, only a certain percentage of Kerry votes should go to Bush

If Bush wins NM 95% to 0 then it will look a little strange.

[Polemonium]

39. Let's make some noise

Now.

[sdfernando]

41. Cause the entire election results to be in doubt

If the election results are in doubt and there is no way get a reliable accurate count of votes, what happens??? According to the constitution the decisions goes to the House of Representatives....and we all know what that means!!!!

[dryan]

42. An option....

vote absentee.

[Az_lefty]

43. This is going to be more fu*ked up than last time.....

:mad:

[AspenRose]

51. Yep...and Carter warned us of that very fact

Last week on C-Span the Congressional Black Caucus held a hearing on voter preparedness and quoted Jimmy Carter as saying, basically, that this election has the potential to be WORSE than 2000, with "Florida" happening all over again in SEVERAL states simultaneously.

[napi21]

45. Thank God for early vothing! At least some of this stuff is

caught now, and not waiting until 11/2.

[6th Borough]

56. Yeah...wish me luck on Sunday, when I early vote on an iESS machine. /EOM

[ckh]

47. Bernalillo County touch screens

Our county clerk, Mary Herrera, seems to be pretty knowledgeable about paper voting scenarios and accountability. I've heard her taking questions at a few public meetings, and from her responses, I've concluded that, despite her overall election experience, she's clueless about computers. When a voter REPEATEDLY has to correct their vote before the screen registers the desired choice, there's something wrong with the input process, something that seriously needs to be fixed.

But even if the input process and display on the screen look right, there's NO WAY to tell if the stored data matches the voter's choice, and the "testing" done by Sequoia doesn't assure it, either. Ms. Herrera doesn't seem to realize this, no matter how many times people tell her. She's all wrapped up in this conceit that people are getting all these baseless "conspiracy theories" from the Internet.

Her use of terminology is upsetting: she states that she and her staff are the ones who "program" the voting machines. At best, they're inputting election parameters. She talks about how "reliably" the machines work -- that is, apparently, they don't just lock up or turn off. But for a VOTING MACHINE, "working" consists of tallying all votes cast with perfect accuracy, in a way that can be verified. That she apparently isn't doing anything to address these widely-reported problems (in the Journal, a right-leaning paper!) suggests that she may not consider them to be problems. The voting machines are working fine, thank you -- the voters are faulty.

In the last election (2002), Richard Romero (D) and Heather Wilson (R, incumbent) competed for the First Congressional District. It looked like a strong win for Romero as election night concluded. But Heather declared victory! In the morning, in came the early votes, taken from the Sequoia touch screen machines. Surprise! They were overwhelmingly Republican. This was disturbing, because the number of early voters had NOT been predominantly Republican, as is usual. (I was helping out on the Romero campaign, where we'd been rejoicing in the heavy early voting by Democrats.)

It got even more disturbing when Romero's legal staff pointed out that the total number of votes looked to be about 12,000 SHORT. Sure enough, somebody didn't click the right icon or something on the Sequoia main server, and the "lost" votes from the touchscreens were somehow "found" and added in to the total -- for Heather, of course.

This set off all sorts of warning bells, only not at the County Clerk's office. Public outrage has been largely ignored for the last few years, and in 2004, here we are again, only worse.

To be fair, I think that Ms. Herrera loves the touchscreen voting system for several potentially good reasons:

- Early voting can be handled by relatively few machines, because the software can accomodate many separate districts and precincts. You can have a few walk-in voting places that serve potentially everyone in the county, with identical machine set-ups.
- The blind can use them.
- People who don't speak English can use them.
- People who don't have a written language can use them. (This is more common than you might think in Indian Country.)

I think Ms Herrera is allowing her desires to better serve all voters, and save time and money, to override the technical information on computer technology that INNUMERABLE highly-educated software professionals have been telling her for the last few years.

For Bernalillo County voters -- she's ON THE BALLOT. Feel free to express yourselves. (And she has only one opponent: A GREEN.)

[NewYorkerfromMass]

48. Thanks for a very informative post

and welcome to DU!

[AspenRose]

49. Fasten your seat belts....

....'cause the ride's about to get bumpy.

It isn't like we didn't KNOW this was going to happen.

The county clerk for Bernalillo county said last week on the TV news that nationwide they've been receiving calls from the media checking on how to properly pronounce "Bernalillo."

"She (Mary Herrera, county clerk) believes it's a people problem. "I have confidence in the machines," she said. "They are touch screens. People are touching them with their palms, or leaning their hand. ... They're hitting the wrong button."

"I have confidence in the machines." Therein lies your problem, Mary.

[Fovea]

50. This stinks

and someone better be in custody today over this.

[davidinalameda]

54. let's go back to pen and paper

why do we trust these damn machines with something so important as our votes

[darkism]

57. People in states with electronic voting...

...need to bring a digital camera that can take video into the booth with them when they vote and record themselves voting for Kerry. If the check goes to * on tape when they CLEARLY pushed the Kerry button, we should raise hell.

Of course, they should remember to fix their vote afterwards :)

[ckh]

58. re: People in states with electronic voting

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this, but a screenshot would not be convincing, because it can be changed any number of times before you actually push the "Vote" button, and vanishes once you do push the "Vote" button.

I don't understand what you mean by "tape" -- the vote just goes into computer memory somehow, with theoretically no specific tie to your voter identification. Moreover, no election official is going to let you see the machine subtotals for each candidate/issue, EVER, much less both before and after you vote. Even if they knew how to do it, or had the equipment, neither of which is likely.

For better or worse, our election system makes a point of preserving anonymity, both to protect people's unpopular votes and to prevent vote buying. Of course, this is why it's so crucial to have trusted voting systems, which permit and facilitate re-counting.

My own concept for a touch screen computerized voting machine would be the "PerfectVote 2006". Like existing touch screen systems, people would go through a computer menu. The fonts would be large enough that people would be able to read the candidate, bond, initiative, and constitutional amendment issues. Machines could flexibly cover any voting precinct, in any language, with audio output (via headphones) for the blind, illiterate, or people whose language is not written.

(Unlike the touchscreen systems used in NM, you could also hear back your choices, with options to re-choose before finalizing).

And here's where the "Perfection" comes in: once you've made your choices, a perfectly-formatted ballot listing your selections comes out. No overvotes. No stray marks. No chads at all. You see and review it, and then release it to the secure ballot box. The voting machines tallies up your choices.

Ballots are later scanned by scanning machines produced by A DIFFERENT COMPANY. The scanned totals are compared with the voting machine totals, MACHINE BY MACHINE. If the two differ, there's an investigation, with potential financial repercussions to the companies supplying the faulty hardware. If further re-counts are needed, the ballots are still human-readable.

(Why all this re-checking? New Mexico is near state of the art, I've been told, on the checking and re-checking of election totals. This is how Al Gore's discrepancy was detected in 2000, and he won the state. The voting machine vs. optical scanner cross check would fit normally into New Mexico's regular audit routine.)

-- ckh