Bombing at Iraqi Shrine Appears Carefully Planned

[kskiska]

Sunday, August 31, 2003; Page A01

NAJAF, Iraq, Aug. 30 -- Investigators suspect the devastating bomb that tore through a crowded street along Iraq's most sacred Shiite Muslim shrine, killing a prominent religious leader and scores of others, was packed in a car parked for as long as 24 hours along a curbside and probably detonated by remote control, a senior U.S. official said today.

In an attempt to forestall another car bombing -- Friday's was the third in less than a month -- U.S. forces will begin patrolling the grounds of the Imam Ali shrine within days, a task they have so far avoided given religious sensitivities and the prospect of another flashpoint in a city already on edge, said Maj. Rick Hall, executive officer of the 1st Battalion, 7th Marines.

The recent blasts have sent a deep shudder through Iraq and badly undermined faith in officials of the U.S.-led occupation. Investigators have yet to determine how the bombs in the two previous bombings in Baghdad were detonated.

The latest strike appeared to have combined a clear objective -- the assassination of Ayatollah Mohammed Bakir Hakim -- with the means and precise planning necessary to carry it out.

more…
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5408-2003Aug30.html

[QuietStorm]

1. No one has taken responsiblity for this mosque bombing then?

snip from article:


"The military has yet to identify the explosives or gather forensic evidence from the site, he said. But police in Najaf said they believed the bomb was made of the same explosives used in the bombing of the Jordanian Embassy on Aug. 7 and one at the U.N. headquarters in Baghdad on Aug. 19."

At this point it seems to me the US is in a lose lose position. Stepping up security can result in the expenditure of more Iraqi innocent life loss. IF that turns out to be the result of this step up in security, as it is being called, it will not bode any better, than the criticisms that draw attention to the Occupations inability to provide appropriate security, especially in light of the fact that no terrorist group has yet claim responsibility for this bombing. I wonder if the that Mohammed's Army will step forward again to claim responsibility here as they did a week after the UN bombing, though they seemed to insist they were not responsible for the Jordanian Embassy bombing.

[Kbowe]

3. Hmmm... now who has the knowledge, sophistication, time and money

to pull this off? Certainly not Ba'athists who are on the run or captured or dead. Certainly not al-Qaeda who would much rather bomb and blow up Americans than fellow Muslims. Can't be the Taliban...they have their hands full in Afghanistan. Would definitely not be Iranians...they are Shites...not Syrians...they can't get across the borders and if they could where would they find the time and opportunity to put such an atocity together. Oh, please..don't tell me the Palestinians would do this...why? They are much to entangled in their own occupation to take the time to go to Iraq and blow up fellow Arabs and Muslims.

So.......who does that leave? Post your opinions, please.

[QuietStorm]

4. three guesses...

and the first two don't count.

[Warren Stuart]

20. Most likely it was the Sunni's

They have the most to gain from a destabilized Iraq, and the most to lose from a stable one. This killing does not benefit Bush at all, he needs moderates to gain control.

In the short term this will strengthen the Islamic fundamentalists, which will prove to be a masssive headache for the occupying forces.

There were plenty of weapons, bombs and explosives distributed throughout Iraq before the war, it don't take much to pack a car and park it. All it takes is a garage door opener to detonate it.

The Vietnamese used watches to rig detonation devices, low tech but highly effective.

Who benefits for this killing? I see you left out Saudi Arabia, they certainly don't want an Iranian style government anywhere near their borders.

[stickdog]

5. A bfeeble attempt at rallying Iraqis around a pro-Western strongman?

just saying the first thing that enters my mind here.

From the article:

In small circles, mourners gathered to debate who was responsible. Some shouted and others whispered theories that ran the gamut of possibilities -- Sunni Muslim militants hostile to Shiites, Iran, Israel, the United States and Hussein loyalists.

Will US media ever consider the entire "gamut of possibilities"?

[diamond14]

2. "Dozens of pictures of Hakim, flooding vendors' stands...."

from the WP article....

"Dozens of pictures of Hakim, flooding vendors' stands next to the shrines, were snapped up for about 30 cents."

convenient that so many professionally printed color photos were available so fast...makes one wonder who had the forethought...

[Aidoneus]

6. pictures of leaders of his stature..

maybe some printing shop had some quick profiteering luck, but pictures of people like Sayyid al-Hakim are pretty common at marches anyway.

[stickdog]

7. Of course that's what happened.

Joe Iraqi (a distant cousin of Joe Isuzu) was just harmlessly profiteering in honor of the American oil companies now running Iraq.

Move along. Nothing to see here.

[Aidoneus]

8. right, that's exactly what I said

it's a fact that in these gathering situations the pictures of revered leaders (shahid or still living) like Mohammed Baqir al-Hakim, Mohammed Baqir al-Sadr, Khomeini, Fadlallah, Nasrallah, etc.. are rarely in short supply anyway, there doesn't have to be any special conspiracy for it now. Believe whatever you wish anyway, tilting at windmills is always much more fun than knowing the subject being spoken of.

[diamond14]

9. there is little electricity, or water or food or gasoline, but no doubt

there are several 24-hour Kinko's nearby, who deliver in case of explosions...

IMO...chalabi, the 'new and improved' saddam, will be now more in charge...one of chalabi's main opponents for power is now gone...

more UN personnel are quickly leaving...(real pesky people who report human rights abuses...now they are out of the country, and out of the way, and won't be back any time soon)

it is likely convicted criminal chalabi who warned OUR military repetitively to stay away from 'sacred' places, so as not to offend Iraqis...which makes it so much easier to leave remote-controlled explosives in cars at the chosen site, until the 'person-of-interest' arrives....same guy who told OUR military about the Iraqis showering them with flowers...same guy who's companions were shot by US Soldiers while using RPG and welding torches to loot banks during the looting spree....shrub will soon find out more about chalabi, shrub's 'new and improved' saddam....another good friend of rumsfeld's...

[stickdog]

10. Are you in Iraq now?

Can you pick me up a few thousand color prints of Khomeini, then?

[The Magistrate]

11. Forgive Them, My Friend

They know not what they do, nor what a knowledgeable person they address.

"You can't cheat an honest man."

[stickdog]

12. Well, tell us about this vast knowledge of the current

supplies of religious figure portraits in Iraq, and we'll back off.

Yes, I'm being flip. But it doesn't mean that I'm not open to be schooled by anyone at anytime.

[The Magistrate]

13. For The Record, Sir

Mr. Aidoneus is a stalwart of "Team Palestine" down in the dungeon, and he is extraordinarily well informed on many intricacies of the Islamic world, including the deeper arcanae of Lebanese politics, and affairs in the Caucasus. Indeed, when in need of information on such locales, it is my practice to ask him for guidance.

[Aidoneus]

14. specific expertise in such is not necessary

just a watchful eye to fairly standard news reports. Whenever there's a (in this case Shia) demonstration, the obvious thing is the very common sight of pictures of revered political(/religious, though personally 95% of the time I find religion to just be a form of politics anyway) figures always being around.

My point is that these pictures are passed around isn't much a story in itself considering the fact that this is a gathering specifically about him and the otherwise commonality of them in similar situations.

Besides that, I would think that the more insidious and detestable things to focus on are the rampant criminal activities of the various warring forces (particularly the US/UK occupation forces) right out in the open, little things like 30-cent pictures being found of a guy at a gathering quite specifically commemmorating him seem most inconsequential by comparison. I said something here because quite often it seems that rather innocuous things are jumped on, rather than perhaps more subtle, but all the same more serious, events.

[stickdog]

15. Very much agreed. The only reason it seemed a bit odd is because

of the reportedly detestable conditions that face occupied Iraq.

[Art_from_Ark]

16. Oh, sure, you can cheat an honest man

In fact, I think that honest men are the easiest to cheat, because they tend to believe that everyone else is like them-- that is, honest.

But, once burned, twice... um... fool me once... er... can't get fooled again

[The Magistrate]

18. Not Really, Sir

The mechanism by which cheating is generally accomplished is to give someone the impression they are gaining an untoward advantage of some kind: a great deal, a fabulous risk-free return, or some such. An honest fellow does not seek benefit of sharp practice.

[Nlighten1]

17. I read on BSNBC that Al Quaeda is responsible for this.

Does that make sense? Radical Muslims bomb a mosque? It doesn't add up.

[The Magistrate]

19. Al Quaeda, Sir

Is Wahabbi, a sect quite different from Shia, and one to which Shia are heretics. Your statement is rather like saying no Baptist would ever be hostile to a Catholic, or vice versa.

[Nlighten1]

21. I suppose you are right.

History has shown us the evils both churches (Protestant and Catholic) have done against each other. So why should Islam be above the fray?

[stickdog]

22. It still doesn't make sense that it's al-Qaeda and you know it.

The jihad is against the US and Israel, not the Shi'ites.

The most religious Wahabbi would dare not murder their brethren simply to cause the chaos in Iraq and therefore trouble for the US. This murderous act was more likely executed by some secular group.

[Aidoneus]

23. that depends

While I have some doubt of it applying here, something like that isn't too implausible. To some political sects that roughly fall under the "Wahabi" & Deobandi catagories (the latter a particular sect native to the greater Indian subcontient and on occasion is kindred and allied with the "Wahabis"), Iran & all the Shias in general are as high on the "People We Don't Like" list as US/Israel are. ("political" used quite deliberately there rather than "religious", for I find religion to be politically-tied most of the time anyway, this no exception)

For one example, in the 80s the Zia-ul-Haq Pakistani military regime (a very US-friendly military regime) used particular "Islamic" sects as a blunt political object to secure/manipulate power. A side effect (or at the time, quite deliberate, but now out of the control of its parents) of that was some violently anti-Shiite ideas; at first anti-Iran as a political move, because the revolutionary Islamic Republic in Iran symbolized a threat to all of the US-client regimes in the region, but that naturally evolved to anti-Shiite in general.
The anti-Shia teachings among these sectarian ideologues, the Maulana Jhangvi being the only I'm particularly familiar with though there are others, led to most unsavory groups like Sipah Sahaba and Lashkar Jhangvi forming (these groups are a kindred of what is referred to as "al-Qai'dah" and have more or less "Shias suck" as part of their political platform), and have for years been used by the state as a violent blunt against Sindhi & Kashmiri Shiites, for they are seen by the US-dominated Pakistani ruling establishment as a potential revolutionary threat like what happened in Iran. Most recently there was an attack on a Pakistani Shia mosque, though the Imam Ali mosque is quite a bit more notable than that.

All of that said, though there is some historical basis for such, it still doesn't make much sense here/now but it's not completely implausible. Maybe I'm applying too much logic to the situation (wars are rarely neat, tidy, or logical), but if I was in Iraq with a car bomb, al-Qai'dah or not is irrelevant, I would think it'd be aimed up Bremer's or Chalabi's ass as a top priority and NOT royally pissing off 3/5ths of the country in one quick act.

Despite all of the above, for once I guess the "Saddam loyalist" propaganda cliche may possibly apply (or would at least make some sense), the Baathists have been trying to kill Sayyid al-Hakim for ages and that feeling is rather mutual among Hakim's peers towards the Baathists. As for whether the so-called "regime loyalists" would go after one of his high stature, it could be noted that seven Iraqi Grand Ayatollahs have been killed in the last couple decades. I don't know, not much lately makes sense, maybe if the smoke clears from this it might be known clearly who was behind it. :shrug:

[The Magistrate]

24. Indeed, Mr. Aidoneus

Though it is a little off this particular topic, it has often occured to me a good deal of Iran's thrust to achieve nuclear status may relate to the possession by Pakistan of such devices. A strategist thinking down the decades would have little difficulty foreseeing a real threat to Iran from the east: it would take only for the most radical parties backed by the I.S.I. to come out on top of the current Afghan chaos for the two tendencies to again share a common border, and the northeast is the path of retreat for Pakistan from Indian power.

[diamond14]

25. and US stooge 'chalabi' had his editorial ready for today's WP

rummy's friend...the guy who assured shrub that OUR soldiers will be 'showered with flowers'....the guy who staged the 'happy Iraqi' matching photos for magazine covers in the USA, as saddam statue was pulled down....bush*'s 'new and improved' saddam...

interesting how chalabi had his complete editorial ready for Today's (Sunday's) Washington Post editorial page...and it reads like chalabi is taking over all control, including turning in the names of his adversaries, and arresting all in his way....(if they seached all homes in America for guns, imagine how many MALES they would have to arrest....)...and punish the brothers, sons, nephews and cousins, which is such a good way to teach democracy (sarcasm)...or...to teach the 'new and improved' saddam-regime named 'chalabi'....the new American stooge...


The View From Iraq

By Ahmad Chalabi
Sunday, August 31, 2003; Page B07
----------------------------

-snips-

Iraqis welcome liberation but reject occupation. The key to empowering the Iraqi people to win back their homeland is the restoration of Iraqi sovereignty. The people need to see an accelerated timetable for the restoration of sovereignty to reinforce the national pride and self-respect that stem from self-government. The Iraqi Governing Council must quickly be developed into a genuine provisional government sharing the burden of security with the coalition while directing the transition to democracy.

There are other steps the United States needs to take immediately to combat the Hussein network and improve security:

• Crack down on Saddam supporters at large in the country. Coalition forces need to move quickly to arrest and question thousands of people: Baathists, Saddam Fedayeen and former members of the security services and the military, as well as their brothers, sons, nephews and cousins. The Iraqi National Congress and other pro-coalition groups can provide lists and locations of these people and assist in their interrogations.

• Conduct a security sweep through the towns where resistance is concentrated. Coalition forces should surround these towns and give residents a 48-hour deadline to hand in illegal weapons, after which house-to-house searches will be conducted. If a cache of weapons is found in the house, then all male residents between 15 and 50 will be arrested. These searches would also be useful in finding fugitives.

------------
Ahmad Chalabi is a founder of the Iraqi National Congress and a member of the Iraqi Governing Council.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A2465-2003Aug29.html