No license? No pop stand, St. Paul tells 2 youngsters

[Blitz]

Mikaela Ziegler, 7, and her 4-year-old sister, Annika, were selling refreshments Wednesday afternoon near the State Fairgrounds when a woman approached them. But she wasn't there to buy.

"She said, 'You can't sell pop unless you have a license,' " Mikaela said.

That's how it came to be that an inspector with St. Paul's Office of License, Inspections and Environmental Protection shut down Mikaela and Annika's pop stand.

Their outraged father, Dr. Richard Ziegler, called City Hall for an explanation. He was told that St. Paul is cracking down on unauthorized merchants and that his daughters would be free to hawk their beverages once they obtained a $60 license.

more:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/462/4067833.html

How sad.

[Jack The Tab]

1. Did you see the picture of those adorable little girls?

Who in the world could be so heartless to tell those girls to shut their little "business" down?

Truly pathetic on the inspectors part and the city's part. Our nation is falling apart and this becomes a priority?

[trotsky]

2. It is sad, but where do you draw the line?

7 and 4 year old girl - OK?
13 and 8 year old boys - OK?
18 and 12 year old girl and boy - OK?
21 and 17 year old women - OK?
35 and 22 year old men, out of their trunk - OK?

I understand how ridiculous it seems to shut down the equivalent of the kiddie lemonade stand, but the line must be drawn. And from the city's standpoint, it's a lot easier to define "NONE" than it is "SOME".

[Jack The Tab]

5. I would think you draw the line on the money made...

I understand your post and do agree with you, but I think it would probably make more sense to require a license when the money made exceeds the license fee.

It's just a sad little story in a giant area of grey.

[trotsky]

6. But how would you track that?

If you don't license them, how do you know when they've made more than the license?

[last1standing]

7. I disagree.

When we begin to look at our government (or any aspect of life) in terms of black and white because it's easier, we lose so much of the good things that government can accomplish.

Do we stop welfare because a few people cheat it?
Do we take away everyone's driver's licenses becase some people speed?

Therefore, I'd say this action does seem (and is) ridiculous. Children selling lemonade or soda from stands is a tradition that I would hate to see ripped away from us by uncaring, unfeeling, inspectors just because they or their supervisors are too callous and lazy to use common sense and judgement.

last1standing.

[patdem]

3. That is so insane....my neighborhood group of kids did entire carnavls

We had ring tosses....baloon breaking...and almost everything a carnaval would have...and it was in our front yard....we were raising money for bats, gloves and whatever our neighborhood baseball team needed!

We did very well....unfortunatly...the best player...the one wanting to be a professional player had his hand eaten by a meat grinder!...And that is a fact of my life in America!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

4. I agree it is sad but can see the quandary city officials face

and frankly, there is nothing to stop an adult from exploiting children and circumventing the law with a couple cute little faces. It certainly isn't the city's fault that we live in a much more dishonest opportunistic world.

What is a shame based on my review of the "Arnold sex" thread is that in a few years these little girls will be all grown up and men will be advocating gangbanging them.

[userdave2061]

10. What does gangbanging have to do with little girls selling lemonade?

I'm sure these little girls will grow up respecting the people that put these environmental rules in place and vote for more of them. Ya right.

[0007]

8. Could a seven year or a four year old

even get a license? If the kids were not being a nuisance or creating a hazzard, what's the problem?

Does sneaky dickie want a piece of the action? Or is it Norm Coleman's territory. This is becoming a nazi country for sure.

[Abe Linkman]

9. Example of regressive "tax"

The outraged (no doubt wealthy) doctor-father probably supports right-wing politicians who enact punitive, regressive fee-based licenses, as a way of shifting tax burdens to the poor and middle class.

[userdave2061]

11. Environmental Protection shut down Mikaela and Annika's pop stand.

Chalk up two more+ followers of the anti-regulation future voters. Way to go St. Paul!!!

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

12. Got a problem with reading skills

It's the Office of LICENSE, INSPECTIONS and ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS.

More likely than not some conservative BUREAUCRAT combined the functions of three important agencies in a cost saving measure and rendered them ALL INEFFECTIVE. :eyes:

[userdave2061]

13. I shortened it to fit the subject line

Please refrain from calling me a moron. I read the rules and personal attacks are not allowed.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

15. yeah right

[userdave2061]

19. Please let me explain

My point was how I see some looking at the issue and making early decisions in life. No intended slam at dems or environmental protection on my behalf.

For instance I'm still pissed at piss poor state control over driver licencing from when I was a teenager. They seemed to make my experience waiting in line for hours while missing work to meet a state demand that my mug be posted on the card as miserable as possible. That's all and nothing more.

I apologize for everyone here that had an enjoyable experience in the license line. :-)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

21. So rather than blame the underfunding of the office

or the inefficiency due to the design of the task, you choose to attack the institution itself?

YOu think they OWE it to you for you to never have to wait in line?

It isn't a state demand that you drive..that is a privilege not a right and is a revocable one. In order to hold the cost of giving you and the rest of the population a license, sometimes we need to wait in line. Of course, we could just forego licensing people in which case when accidents happened there would be no documentation of the individuals involved nor the responsible party.

So you railed against the EPA because you had to wait for a drivers' license?

OK...you are either young, or not well versed in reasoning skills given the faulty reasoning of your post...or back to my original impression....

[userdave2061]

23. No lack of funding

Just the smug, conceited attitude of the shiny, polished desk jockeys that flaunted their cushy state jobs in my face while I was covered in tar and sweating from my break from sealing a basement foundation. It left an impression that flashes back everytime I am forced to make a trip to the DMV. There were 20+ agents and maybe 10 people in line. I was docked for time away from the job.

State workers owe me nothing except good service and not brow beating because I was a filthy labor worker.

The line was for a picture. I didn't need no steenking picture.

EPA, licence, railed. Rememember your claim of non-mindreading?

Your impression is mistaken, I rank above average in reasoning and I was young when I got my license but I'm much older than that now.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

24. You sound damaged by an experience anyone who has to get

a license faces. Grow up.

[userdave2061]

26. If growing up means narrow, projecting, unimaginative condemnations shown

I refuse to grow up and will let others define themselves lest I get it wrong.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

27. Nothing narrow, projecting and unimaginative of your categorization

of state workers. Maybe it waas beyond you that any position in customer service is listed in the top ten most stressful occupations according to the American Stress Institute.

I notice the more I challenge you on you trials and tribulations in getting a drivers license, the more the story expands and becomes more *gasp* inconvenient.

So how do you propose we regulate licensing...btw...you said the event was from when you were a teen then said you were covered with dirt from your laborer job....did your folks sell you into slave labor?

[userdave2061]

29. I was bulding houses at 16 years

Worked nightshift in a chef kitchen from 13 to 16. I have not have more than two weeks off at a time since then. What's it to ya?

[gristy]

14. Mayor of St. Paul has announced that he will except (exempt?) these

youngsters and their pop stand from the law. Heard it on the radio about 1/2 hour ago.

[0007]

16. ....and the little doggie ears poped

straight up in the air with that bit of good news.

Justice wins over evil again, LOL!!

[dflprincess]

20. Also talk about amending the law

to specifically exempt kids and their lemonade stands. (Actually, the kids were selling bottle water and canned pop so there were no health code violations). They live not too far from the state fair grounds and kids have always had stands to sell drinks to thirsty fair goers who are hiking to the fair.

As one city council member said "Who didn't have a lemonade stand when they were a kid?" He was taking up a collection to pay for the license when the mayor stepped in.

[priller]

17. I remember when my brother and I had a little lemonade stand

for about a week one summer (with my harried mom bringing pitcher after pitcher of lemonade). One time a police car pulled up and we figured we were in trouble. But he was very nice and mainly wanted to make sure we were safe with money lying around. He got into his squad car and pulled away, then immediately did a u-turn and came back to us. What did we do now? He gets out and says, "Man, that was good. I want another!" Ha!

I had good memories of my stand. Too bad this has turned into an ordeal for these girls.

[dArKeR]

18. My sister and I also often had a Cool-Aid stand. This is a repuke disgrace

I hope the IRS comes after me and my sister for the 85 cent profit we made! And our country wouldn't be so screwed up financially if it wasn't for the Repukes in the first place.

http://darkerxdarker.tripod.com/

[GemMom]

22. This is the same thing that happened in Naples, FLA

This is the same thing that happened in Naples, FLA earlier this year. Same basic thing. The city manager ended up exempting them too.

[prolesunited]

28. Here's the real scoop on that Florida story

Here's the real scoop on the Florida incident -- of course the story was blown out of proportion by those anxious to portray government as out of control.
That IS part of their agenda -- make people see the government as incompetent, overbearing and moronic -- basically, the enemy since their agenda is to shrink the size of government. If people have an unfavorable view of government, they'll cheer when it's removed from their lives.
They certainly don't want people to think that government could play an important role in improving the quality of people's lives by spending money on health care, education or infrastructure or social service programs that aid disenfranchised populations.
What I don't get is why so many people here are willing to fall for this distortion.
Anyway, here's the real story about the Florida situation:
NAPLES - As portrayed nationwide, the story of the little lemonade girl, the nasty neighbor and big, ugly government goes something like this: A 6-year-old girl in sweltering Southwest Florida tries to make a little summer money by starting a lemonade stand. A crabby neighbor demands that the stand be licensed or shut down. Heavy-handed police officers force the child out of business.
<snip>
For starters, police didn't really shut down the stand, much less arrest any children, as some have claimed. And the city had granted the license without a fee long before the first word about the controversy was broadcast or printed. In truth, it's a rather pedestrian tale of a long-running neighborhood dispute over a carport radio and a neighbor who retaliated for months of complaints from next door by reluctantly asking police to check on the stand.
<snip>
While there are four neighborhood children who work the stand regularly, most of the attention, and promotion, has fallen on Avigayil. She went on Letterman, has given countless interviews and is now going to be the national representative for the Kids Only! Sunny Day Play Lemonade Stand ($24.99), a plastic, ready-to-operate lemonade stand. The boxes will soon carry Avigayil's photo. "It's been a wild ride, and Avi might just get college paid for out of it," Shaw said.
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/07/17/State/Squeezing_a_spat_for_.shtml

[Mackay]

25. lazy parenting and not cute

While this is hardly news and I agree the girls shouldn't be shut down...

Somehow I find this not as cute as a Kool Aid stand or a Lemon Aid stand... in both of those ventures, the kids are mixing up their own batch. When you're a kid and you drink Kool Aid or Lemon Aid all day, you have your own way of mixing it... and when you are the age of these girls, it seems like you are cookng up your own formula for people. That is part of the fun and the magic of it. It is not just about making a profit.

In this case, they went to the store, bought pop... and turned around and sold it. It's only about profit. I don't find it very cute... rather tacky and commercial... and lazy parenting.

Why not let the girls buy cookies and potato chips and offer them for sale too?

[Paschall]

30. Thanks

A very nice observation.

[0007]

31. We got a winner

hot dog!