WP: New Ad Says Kerry Met Secretly (with the "enemy" in Vietnam)

[Newsjock]

From Wednesday's Washington Post. No link yet. Absolutely disgusting.

New Ad Says Kerry Met Secretly
By Paul Farhi
The Washington Post

WASHINGTON — The veterans organization that sparked controversy last month when it questioned John Kerry’s military service in Vietnam plans to launch a new commercial Wednesday that equates Kerry with Vietnam War protester Jane Fonda and accuses the Democratic presidential nominee of secretly meeting with “enemy leaders” during the conflict.

The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth said it will spend $1.3 million to air its advertisement in five battleground states and on national cable television networks over the next week. The ad, titled “Friends,” makes no assertion of any direct link between Kerry and Fonda, but it suggests that their contacts with North Vietnamese leaders during the war were equally dishonorable.

“Even before Jane Fonda went to Hanoi to meet with the enemy and mock America, John Kerry secretly met with enemy leaders in Paris,” begins the spot, with grainy footage of the actress and a young Kerry. “... Then he returned and accused American troops of committing war crimes on a daily basis. Eventually, Jane Fonda apologized for her activities, but John Kerry refuses to.”

The group, whose members served in the Navy at the same time as Kerry, is referring to a meeting Kerry had in early 1971 with leaders of the communist delegation that was negotiating with U.S. representatives at the Paris peace talks. The meeting, however, was not a secret. Kerry, a leading antiwar activist at the time, mentioned it in testimony before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in April of that year. “I have been to Paris,” he testified. “I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and Provisional Revolutionary Government,” the latter a South Vietnamese communist group with ties to the Viet Cong.

more

[unblock]

1. meanwhile, in texas, shrub met with COCAINE DEALERS for a fix...

[UpInArms]

6. and arranged for his girlfriend to have an abortion.

n/t

[DoNotRefill]

55. Ummmm...should we be making that an issue?

seems pretty stupid to do that...

[Carla in Ca]

44. It was not a secret meeting? I see a new Moveon ad then.

[tinrobot]

49. Impressive

That John Kerry actually got to meet with these people, and at such a young age.

George Bush had never even travelled outside of the country at this point and was way too busy being a pot-smoking horndog to affect US policy.

Night and Day... night and day.

[trueblew]

2. Let's see how much free publicity...

the "liberal" media give these hoaxers this time.

[last_texas_dem]

40. Yeah

If I remember correctly it was just a couple weeks ago, when the CBS/Guard story broke that all the talking heads were saying that we needed to move on from what happened thirty years ago and start talking about things relevant to today. Let's see how big of hypocrites they can be... I know at least Lou Dobbs and Chris Matthews made that statement. FWIW, both of them seemed to be pretty hard on the Swifties when they were on their shows, but it's odd that they still gave the Swift Boat Liars coverage but were so quick to move on from covering the memos...

[noahmijo]

3. Uh Jane Fonda hasn't apologized to my knowledge

Given the fact that Kerry LEFT the Vietnam Vets Against The War because he didn't agree with their pro-Communist anti-American angle, I find it hard to believe that he felt the desire to aid the Vietcong.

HEY LYING SACKS OF SHIT JUST A QUESTION: WHERE WERE YOU PEOPLE DURING VIETNAM?

Pissant assholes God I hate these people.

[Eloriel]

14. She most certainly has -- several years ago n/t

[TahitiNut]

31. Well, you might call her 1988 spin an 'apology' but I don't.

Or you might call her only other statement in an interview in 2000 an 'apology.' I don't see it that way. Sorry. Maybe you needed to be a Vietnam Vet to come close to understanding. I don't know. What I do know is that I don't feel that I was apologized to for being called a "war criminal" or for her other slanders on the radio from Hanoi in 1972.

But I guess it really doesn't matter much to all the non-Vietnam-Vets so eager to applaud her 'apology' whether the Vets themselves feel she apologized and was sincere, huh? I guess the folks who never went to Vietnam get to speak for us again, huh?

Gee. Thanks for accepting her 'apology' on my behalf.
Why do I hear the echoes of someone saying to me: "who cares what you think?"

---

Here's what she said in August 1988 to Barbara Walters on 20/20: Here's what she said in August 2000 in Oprah's 'O' Magazine:

""Well ... it's not ... I would like to say something not just to ... the Vietnam veterans ... in New England ... but ... to ... to men who were in Vietnam who ... who I hurt ... or who's pain I caused to ... deepen because of things I said ... or did ... I ... I feel that I owe them an apology ... my intentions were never to hurt them ... or to make their situation worse, it was ... it was the contrary ... I was trying to help end the war ... but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I ... and I am very sorry ... that I hurt them ... and I want to apologize to them and to their families ...."

Barbara Walters remarked, "Somehow I don't think they will accept your apology."

At the time, Fonda was filming "Stanley and Iris" on location in a number of blue-collar New England towns. Production on the movie was being severely disrupted by protesting veterans and this was causing a serious problem for the film. Fonda decided that something had to be done, so she went on 20/20.

Here's what she said in August 2000 in Oprah's 'O' Magazine:

"I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an antiaircraft carrier (sic), which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. That had nothing to do with the context that photograph was taken in. But it hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless. I wasn't thinking. I was just so bowled over by the whole experience that I didn't realize what it would look like."

As Jane Fonda sat in the crew-command anti-aircraft gun in Hanoi. Her remarks translated by a French journalist to her NVA on-lookers, she pointed the gun skyward and pretended to sight an imaginary American aircraft target. She remarked, "I wish I could get one of those blue-eyed motherfucker's in these sights!"

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. Those sound like

apologies to me. Pretty sincere as well.

[TahitiNut]

35. Are you a Vietnam Veteran?

:eyes:

[saigon68]

15. Are you saying Me and my friends are Communists?

Here's the group turning up the heat on Nixon at his Miami Convention Coronation Summer 1972

[noahmijo]

19. No I am saying what Kerry said himself in his book

He left the group because too many members were pro-Communist and he didn't approve of that. This was AFTER all the major points and marches were made.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

25. '68...are you in the photo? If so, which one are you?

[saigon68]

28. Nope not in this one.

Guess I'll have to check my FBI file.

By the way did you ever see how much shit the FBI collected on the VVAW.


Almost a million pages, a lot of it is posted on the Web after various FOI requests.

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. Are you implying

that you are one of the guys in the picture? Just curious.

I have a couple of friends that were part of the Gainesville Eight fame.

[saigon68]

36. Nope I'm not in the picture.

After six Vietnam Veterans walked together in an anti-Vietnam War march, Vietnam Veterans Against the War was founded in New York City, in 1967. The investigation of the VVAW gained steam after Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara saw an advertisement from the group in the November 11, 1967 edition of the New York Times. In 1970 the group had 600 members. By the 1971 it had 6,000 members. The bulk of the monitoring of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War took place between 1972 and 1975. During that time the FBI increased efforts to recruit VVAW members as informants.

Although there were many anti-war groups at the time, The Vietnam Veterans Against the War seems to have gathered more attention from the FBI than most others. The sight of uniforms, medals, and missing limbs caused a greater stir along all sectors of the ideological spectrum of opinion about the Vietnam War. There also may have been a feeling in the FBI that members of the VVAW were more dangerous than hippies, because VVAW members had military training and had seen combat. The files show the United States domestic intelligence infrastructure's level of concern about the possibility of subversion and sedition, among those who were strongly critical of American Vietnam policy.

Thirty years ago Saturday, eight members of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War - known as the Gainesville Eight - were acquitted in federal court of trying to violently disrupt the 1972 Republican National Convention in Miami.

http://www.alligator.org/edit/news/issues/stories/030902reunion.html

Four of the eight men gathered to commemorate the day they regained their freedom along with their lawyers, supporters and even a few jurors



The Gainsville 8

[DoYouEverWonder]

37. I know the one in the bottom left corner

Scott Camil. He's the one who ran his mouth off about using violence and has taken crap for it ever since.

BTW: He's still alive and kicking here in Gainesville.

[saigon68]

42. John Kniffin (1940-2002) Lower right front

The Gainesville trial was the last of the Nixon conspiracy indictments in which dissidents, including the Berrigan brothers, were indicted for alleged plots that could not be proven but served to cripple the anti-war movement.

In the Gainesville, Florida case the government put on a battery of witnesses, including several FBI informants. The defense called one (1) to testify on a minor technicality. The jury quickly returned a blanket acquittal.

After the trial, Mr. Kniffin, who was born in San Antonio on February 9, 1940, settled quietly in Brenham, Texas, with his wife, but never stopped caring about others. During the blizzard of 1996, he and two other veterans drove a dying Marine to the Vietnam Memorial Wall eight days before he died from cancer caused by exposure to Agent Orange.

At the time of his death, Mr. Kniffin had also succumbed to the effects of Agent Orange and had been declared 100% disabled.

[DoYouEverWonder]

43. A dear friend of mine

was the 9th person in the Gainesville Eight. He had managed not to get arrested, so he wasn't counted. He just got 100% disability for Agent Orange and is finally building his dream home with the money.

Scott still looks the same, except his hair is white now.

These guys stood up for what they believed and suffered the consequences.

[tlcandie]

53. Do you think they import trees for him to use that chain saw on?

I mean... how can there even be a tree left on that place? He stays there doing nothing, but clearing and cutting trees since 2000?

Amazing!! Where's those "watch this drive" photos? Too elitist nowdays?

[jpgray]

4. So did Henry Kissinger. And how was it 'secret'?

This has been the dumbest line of attack yet. If the media do not really get out there and expose these liars, they really have no shred of objectivity left.

[camby]

5. zzzzzzz

That's the sound of America sleeping through the next onslaught of vets against Kerry.

[DU9598]

9. Jumping the shark

A sinking ship, and it is not Kerry's swift boat going down.

[joefree1]

47. This one?

Download the free poster/sign here:
http://ediablo.com/eDiabloGallery.html

[KittyWampus]

7. Kerry TESTIFIED TO CONGRESS! It Was No Secret

and he was trying to get MIA home.

[A_Possum]

8. Why should he apologize for this...?

The Chairman: Do you support or do you have any particular views about any one of them you wish to give the committee?

Mr. Kerry: My feeling, Senator, is undoubtedly this Congress, and I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but I do not believe that this Congress will, in fact, end the war as we would like to, which is immediately and unilaterally and, therefore, if I were to speak I would say we would set a date and the date obviously would be the earliest possible date. But I would like to say, in answering that, that I do not believe it is necessary to stall any longer. I have been to Paris. I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points it has been stated time and time again, and was stated by Senator Vance Hartke when he returned from Paris, and it has been stated by many other officials of this Government, if the United States were to set a date for withdrawal the prisoners of war would be returned. (The same POW's who were so "devastated" by this attempt to get them freed sooner rather than later?)

I think this negates very clearly the argument of the President that we have to maintain a presence in Vietnam, to use as a negotiating block for the return of those prisoners. The setting of a date will accomplish that...

Mr. Kerry: Senator, if I may interject, I think that what we are trying to say is we do have a method. We believe we do have a plan, and that plan is that if this body were by some means either to permit a special referendum in this country so that the country itself might decide and therefore avoid this recrimination which people constantly refer to or if they couldn't do that, at least do it through immediate legislation which would state there would be an immediate cease-fire and we would be willing to undertake negotiations for a coalition government. But at the present moment that is not going to happen, so we are talking about men continuing to die for nothing and I think there is a tremendous moral question here which the Congress of the United States is ignoring.

The Chairman: The congress cannot directly under our system negotiate a cease-fire or anything of this kind. Under our constitutional system we can advice the President. We have to persuade the President of the urgency of taking this action. Now we have certain ways in which to proceed. We can, of course, express ourselves in a resolution or we can pass an act which directly affects appropriations which is the most concrete positive way the Congress can express itself.

But Congress has no capacity under our system to go out and negotiate a cease-fire. We have to persuade the Executive to do this for the country.

Mr. Kerry: Mr. Chairman, I realize that full well as a student of political science. I realize that we cannot negotiate treaties and I realize that even my visits in Paris, precedents had been set by Senator McCarthy and others, in a sense are on the borderline of private individuals negotiating, et cetera. I understand these things. But what I am saying is that I believe that there is a mood in this country which I know you are aware of and you have been one of the strongest critics of this war for the longest time. But I think if can talk in this legislative body about filibustering for porkbarrell programs, then we should start now to talk about filibustering for the saving of lives and of our country. (Applause.)

And this, Mr. Chairman, is what we are trying to convey.

**********

WHY SHOULD HE APOLOGIZE FOR TRYING TO BRING THE POW'S HOME SOONER RATHER THAN LATER?

[truthisfreedom]

10. *yawn*

*strettttch*

[Nimrod]

11. Oh, sweet baby Jesus with t*ts.

This was debunked on Snopes over a year ago. Quite a protective smoke screen the EoP has put up here though.

[JI7]

12. the Vietnamese were never the enemy

we were on the wrong side in that war.

[Zynx]

13. Oh give me a fucking break.

[Eloriel]

16. Hope someone will provide a link when available n/t

[OKNancy]

17. The FBI can testify in Kerry's behalf since

they followed him the whole time.

http://www.reclaimdemocracy.org/articles_2004/kerry_vvaw_cointelpro.html

[onehandle]

18. Rove's Faux is on it (link)

Swift Boat Vets to Launch Another Ad

WASHINGTON  — The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth are launching a new wave of attacks against Democratic presidential hopeful John Kerry, FOX News has learned.

The group, which has been largely responsible for questioning the Massachusetts senator's Vietnam-era heroism, has made its largest media buy yet of the presidential campaign. It has put $1.2 million behind a new ad that attacks the candidate's 1970 meeting in Paris with members of two North Vietnamese delegations. The ads, which will be launched Wednesday, will run on broadcast affiliates in the battleground states of Pennsylvania, Ohio, West Virginia, Nevada and New Mexico.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,133060,00.html

[Pirate Smile]

20. What did he meet with them in the not-secret meetings to talk about?

POWs!

[riverwalker]

21. while Kerry was working for peace

and congressional delegations in 1971 lets see what dumya was doing in 1972:
"Unemployed for several months and lives off his trust fund...They say George liked to sneak out back for a joint of marijuana or into the bathroom for a line of cocaine....George, according to the recollections of others, tended to show up late every day for work, "around noon", come into the office, prop his cowboy boots on a desk, and start bragging about how much he had drunk the night before"
(from Kitty Kelley's The Family)

[clydefrand]

22. I went to our Democratic headquarters this evening to hear

Skip Barker speak. Some of you may know him. He served with Kerry in VN and he knows him very well and has a close personal relationship for all these years since their service. Barker now lives in Selma, Alabama; is a cotton farmer and a lawyer. He gave a wonderful speech of their history together. He talked of how brilliant Kerry is and how curious he is about so many things, about how he had read all the books that were available to him while on duty. And how Kerry was responsible for coming up with the plan to confront the enemy rather than leaving them after they would shoot at the Swift Boat.

Of course everyone there was a Kerry supporter. I wish he would speak on television. He was encouraged to do an ad for Kerry...and to call it the Truthful Swift Boat Vets for the Truth. :-)

There were many Vets for Kerry there--my husband among them. I have long been an admirer of Kerry for many years. I always thought he had the most practical, sensible ideas about how to overcome problems. He's my guy all the way!!

[0007]

23. Only morans could believe anything as stupid as this garbage

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. Unfortunately, there are quite a few of them on the "Dark Side".

[KC21304]

24. This is great ! I have said for a month that Kerry needed to

get his 1971 testimony out to the people. This will give him the excuse to do it. And he can tie it in with the current situation in Iraq.

I just hope he loses all those flags he had yesterday. I don't know who started this silly war to see who could get the most flags on stage but it is idiotic.

[KittyWampus]

27. I Strongly Disagree. Flags Are Better Than Idiotic "Message" Backgrounds

that repeat some key words all over them.

[KC21304]

58. I'm not against having a flag or two, but a backdrop

entirely of huge flags I feel looks stupid. A flag on each side with just a curtain would be fine. We don't need any message. It could be that the University put up all the flags but I doubt it.

[illuminaughty]

57. Exactly! Let the people hear the '71 hearing in it's entirety

As many other here on D.U., Kerry was not my first choice. So, when he swept ahead in the primary, I checked out the '71 testimony. I am inept when it comes to the computer, so it took some time to find. But it is absolutely brilliant and beautiful. That's why the ass-wipes only comment on it out of context and continually lie about its content. It is a powerful speech.

[Merlin]

29. THIS IS A FUCKING OUTRAGEOUS LIE! GODAM THESE PEOPLE!

This is it! I will not personally sit back and take this crap any longer.

Damn it, Nam Vets, let's get our asses together and go pay a visit to these sons of bitches.

Who's in?

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. I am sick and tired of Karl Rove bashing and destroying every Vet

that served the country honorably, while he and his chickenshit, chickenhawk pals, never did shit, except destroy and divide this country, so they can attain power.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. A good friend of mine

who was a Viet vet, Navy Seal and served with Kerry died in a car wreck two weeks ago.

He was outraged over the swift liars lies.

So this is personal for me now.

You are right, these guys are outrageous fucking lying fuckheads.

:evilfrown:

[progressivebydesign]

41. I'm sorry for your loss...

..I'm sorry your friend did not live to see Kerry win, and squash those evil bastards.. once and for all.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

50. My deepest and most profound thoughts, prayers and condolences are

extended to you on the loss of your friend -he sounds like a truly wonderful person.

What a bunch of egotistical liars these Swift Boat creeps are -I won't disparage their military service for their nation (like they have done to Kerry) but I do think they have acted in the most disgusting and abominable way possible during this election campaign

[Newsjock]

38. LINK TO WASHINGTON POST ARTICLE HERE

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39744-2004Sep21.html

New headline: New Ad Says Kerry Met Secretly With Enemy in Vietnam War
Page A08

... "This is more trash from a group that's doing the Bush campaign's dirty work," Kerry spokesman Chad Clanton said. "Their charges are as credible as a supermarket rag."

In an interview yesterday, John O'Neill, an organizer of the Swift boat group and co-author of the anti-Kerry book "Unfit for Command," said it would be "unprecedented" for a future commander in chief to have met with enemy leaders. "It would be like an American today meeting with the heads of al Qaeda," he said.

[progressivebydesign]

39. Time for Kerry to hit back fast and hard on this!

Can't let it sit..

[DeepModem Mom]

52. ABSOLUTELY! Only a fool makes the same mistake twice...

and, I hope, we're not fools --

[The_Casual_Observer]

45. These ads won't sway anybody anymore

the shock value is gone. Kerry has picked up the Iraq advantage and will run with it to the finish line.

[w4rma]

48. Not true. Smears work. Especially when amplified by big media. (nt)

[classof56]

46. If Bush really is the fine Christian man of faith he claims to be

He'll stand up and denounce these lies and the character assassinations of good men and women who have served their country well when called upon. He should disavow all knowledge of these so-called "veterans for truth" and make it clear they do not speak for him.

If Bush does not do this, I think it is evident he is NOT the fine Christian man of faith he claims to be, and I can only hope his God will deal with him swiftly and decisively. A bolt of lightning would be good...

DEFEAT BUSH!!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

51. But FratBoy doesn't really know what it means to have served...

...and he knows even less about honor and loyalty.

[farmboxer]

54. Anyone Know What Was In Lee Atwater's Death Bed Confession?

I heard about it years ago on the news. As far as I can remember, the things he confessed to were aweful and he was Bush and Rove's teacher of lies, dirty tricks and treachery! If anyone can remember, or find the confession it should be put out to the public.

Kerry should attack back ASAP like Clinton did, that's how Clinton won. He fought back. James Carville, where are you?

Ralph Reed? Pat Robertson? Who as it who said, "If women receive equal rights and equal pay, they'll turn into witches and lesbians?" It was brought up years ago on Larry King.

Mason's are devil worshippers? Ask Pat Robertson about that? Don't forget Rev. Moon, the new "Messiah" crowned on Capitol Hill! Masons have votes!

Was Bush the only president to have been an AWOL, Deserter?! Isnt' that treason?! Show how Bush and his pals called Bob Kerry, Congressional Medal Of Honor, US Navy Seals, yes, called him a war criminal?! Unpatriotic, coward, etc., until he decided not to run for President? Same to McCain! Clellan? To do that to him is a very sick thing to do. Lying ____! Republicans have to lie. Democrats only have to tell the truth!

The truth to a Republican is like a cross to a vampire!

Does anyone remember the reason Ross Perot dropped out of the Presidential race years ago? Remember what he said on Larry King? The Republican dirty tricksters tried to kill he and his family? Just thing back, yes, the truth to a Republican is like a cross to a vampire! The don't have a let to stand on if the truth gets out. Kerry is a war hero. Republicans appears to hate war heros and love deserters! Gee, I wonder why? Should our troops do as Bush did?

[Carolab]

56. And on 9/11

Poppy sat in a hotel room with the bin Ladens watching the towers fall. And, prior to declaring war on Iraq, Bush's team prepped Bandar on the plans. And, of course, prior to the first Gulf War, Rummy shook hands with Hussein.

[Merlin]

59. CALLING ALL NAM VETS: Please Join Us In Legal Action to stop this.

We are evaluating what approach to take, but are absolutely intent on doing something fast to counter these bastards and their incredible, damned lies.

Please PM me if you're willing to add your name and your voice and your help to this cause!

Thank you.