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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:12 AM
Original message
New York Post: Kerry Picks Gephardt
Edited on Tue Jul-06-04 02:19 AM by VolcanoJen
Umm, holy crap. Yes, it's the Post, but wtf???

http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/26839.htm



John Kerry has chosen Rep. Richard Gephardt, the veteran congressman from Missouri, to be his running mate, The Post has learned.

Gephardt, 63, a 28-year veteran of the House of Representatives, could be named by the presumptive Democratic nominee as the party's vice-presidential candidate as soon as today.

The Massachusetts senator was set to announce the winner of the veep-stakes at a rally this morning in Pittsburgh, according to several reports last night.

With the July 26 Democratic convention in Boston looming, Kerry is looking for some advantage in the polls, and is hoping his choice of running mate will be the answer.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. yeah, what are we supposed to believe... the airline bb's or the nypost?
hahahah. looks like we still have to wait.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yeh, but they're splashing a front-page photo and headline.
Even the Post wouldn't gamble their, uhh, "reputation" on a "Dewey Beats Truman" headline, would they?

:shrug:
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Langis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. I really hope so
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:38 AM
Response to Reply #6
95. Kerry owes Gep
Gep took out Dean in Iowa so Kerry could get the nomination. It's probably been a set up all along....
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Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 05:54 AM
Response to Reply #95
108. I agree BF.
I have always thought Kerry would pick Gephardt because he owed him for helping him take out Dean. That is the one thing that really pissed me off about both of them. The way they worked Dean over by using dirty tricks was tacky.
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Momof1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. disinformation maybe?
Keep everyone guessing?

This is driving me crazy.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
28. is this the REAL front-page layout? or is it a mockup? has it gone to
press?
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #28
43. Good question... hey New Yorkers? When does the Post hit the street?
I would imagine that the publish drop-deadline has already passed, but who knows?

Any info from a New Yorker would be incredibly helpful right now...
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #43
57. Normally paper hits the printers around 12ish....
I'm guessing since it's going on 4:30 that this will hit the street within the next hour or so.

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MidwestTransplant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
36. Did they print this or is it online edition/
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Garnet Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:02 AM
Response to Reply #36
54. Well
I'd imagine a DUer in NY could let us know in about 3 to 5 hours...
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #1
82. NY POST??? BWAHAHAHA!!!
This is nothing but Rove and Murdoch fucking with our heads.

Don't believe it.

I donated to Kerry and I'll be getting an e-mail about his choice before anyone in the press does, and it's past 5 a.m. ET and no e-mail yet.

Hold your horses, folks - the Rethugs just want to piss us off.



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noahmijo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:18 AM
Response to Original message
3. Dewey Defeats Truman!!
Pure bullshit.

Proof?

Kerry said we'd hear about it first on his site.

His site makes no mention.

This is the post just trying to cater to their conservative base, and trying to piss the rest of us off.

It's working.
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DWolper Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Don't be ridiculous
A major New York paper "catering to their conservative base" by placing itself in the position of being a laughingstock? As for it not being on the site, it's called a leak. The POST is not a great newspaper, but make no mistake, it would not go out on the limb with this unless they nailed it down. I'm guessing with this development, Gep it is.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
42. It is on the site.
Front page. Blammo, right when you type the URL.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #42
67. It does? I don't see it...
God, I hope he did not pick the guy.

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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #67
74. It's there.
http://www.nypost.com /

Right at the top of the page.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #74
80. Ahhh, no - some miscommunication here.
DWolper was talking about it not being on KERRY'S site, not the Post's. It's not on Kerry's site, which is what I meant.

Sorry we had some confusion there. :)

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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #80
84. D'oh!
As a wise man with poor English skills once said:

Oops slip idea.
Understanding hasn't get in yet.
Now there is.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #84
87. S'all good, my friend!
:)

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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
86. Don't you realize
that the NY Post is a crappy right-wing rag owned by Rupert Murdoch, the same SOB who owns FOX News, and one of Dubya's biggest contributors, in bed with Karl Rove?

Murdoch obviously gave the OK to screw with us by putting up a bogus on-line front page story.

You think he gives two hoots about what any of us think about his "rep"? He has no principles and no scruples.

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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #3
23. Even right-wing rags don't like egg on their face...
It's a big gamble to run a front page story that probably has already gone to print. Not since the Truman election has a newspaper had that LARGE of egg on their face. If Gephardt isn't the VP, the Post will come out like liars and their reputation will take a large dent.

Not so sure they'd risk it.

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Garnet Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
41. Gores old campaign manager said today
to EXPECT a leak prior to the announcement...
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
4. Explative, repeat, redux, replay!!!
If it comes out as Gephardt ...shit shit shit!!! I just posted on another board that sources (what seemed as reliable sources anyway) for it to be Edwards. All along I've been saying Gephardt. Damn! I don't want Gephardt, but understand the reasoning behind him.

Shit! I DON'T like Gephardt!
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Syrinx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
5. fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck !!!
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Langis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. yep FUCK!!!!!!
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
9. goddammit
Ohgoddammit. Fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck, this better be a decoy, an error, or a joke.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I mean, I'm just seriously fucking crushed right now.
Of all the talent in the Democratic Party... it just doesn't make any goddamned sense.

Is this really happening?? Or is this a massive disinformation plot to discredit a major right-wing media source?

Fuck, fuck, fuckity-FUCK.
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AlFrankenFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:32 AM
Response to Original message
10. Bullshit
I don't trust the damned thing. It's conservative for cryin' out loud.
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DWolper Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
24. Reverse
The New York Times is a liberal newspaper. If it were to get the scoop of a Republican story, should we not believe it? This is the POST, a conservative paper, but not one that would take a front page risk like this unless it was nailed down. Journalism has their scoops everyday. My guess is today is the POST's day. It's a solid ticket that will play well across the country. Experience plus - for challenging times.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:47 AM
Response to Reply #24
35. The New York Times is liberal? Sure it is, and Bush is a moderate!
Why do I feel strange when you use the word "we"?
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DWolper Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #35
46. Times is the most liberal major paper in the country
Edited on Tue Jul-06-04 03:02 AM by DWolper
To not accept that means you have "liberal" and "leftist" confused. Nobody in their right mind could deny that the TIMES is a liberal newspaper. As for "we" - the context is clear: those of us now on Democratic Underground discussing the VEEP pick.
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #46
49. And Fox is fair and balanced, right?
Nobody in their right mind could deny that the TIMES is not a liberal newspaper.

I'm not allowed to say anymore. :)
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #46
69. You've gotta be fucking KIDDING!
The NYT, the "most liberal major paper in the country"?

The "Judith Miller" Times? The paper that consistently lets bushco slide on major, major CRIMES?

You can't be serious. If the NYT were truly liberal, bush would already be in prison, thanks to their groundbreaking journalism.

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MarkTwain Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 05:12 AM
Response to Reply #46
102. Hah! You mean Pravada on the Hudson?
... The Old Grey Lady hasn't had a liberal bone in that old body for a long, long time now. She's been too preoccupied tending to her well known political arthritis as she gets up off her knees from time to time while blowing the establishment.
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MarkTwain Donating Member (902 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 05:16 AM
Response to Reply #24
103. It's a Lackluster Ticket at the Top
... and, if this is true, now it is an even more lackluster - indeed, boring, political typical, and coma inducing ticket at the bottom.

Damn, how I HATE being a Democrat. We're being HANDED this election by the consummate fraud, scandals, and evil of an adminstration unequalled in our time and we put up a ticket like this. Shit.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
12. I'll give a second 'son of a bitch' here
If this is the case, I'm incredibly disappointed. :(
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Rosco T. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. WAITAMINUTE!!!!!!!! Look close at that story.....
Operative word...

"Gephardt, 63, a 28-year veteran of the House of Representatives, could be named by the presumptive Democratic nominee as the party's vice-presidential candidate as soon as today."

methinks they're fishing to try to get a scoop...
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:35 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I saw that---the piece throws out similar bios for Vilsack and Edwards
Edited on Tue Jul-06-04 02:36 AM by jpgray
Not all hope is lost. :D Mayhap they just threw together a boilerplate for the three mentioned as the top contenders?
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. I think they mean...could be today, or tomorrow, or Thursday....
As in, he's it....but not sure when Kerry will say it.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. But notice the body of the article is drab biography
Whereas they have the same 'fortunately, unfortunately' for Gephardt, Edwards and to a lesser extent Vilsack. This may just be a form article and they are taking a gamble.
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:41 AM
Response to Reply #19
27. Well it's a big gamble....
So I'm guessing they've got something or they'd not run with it.

If it comes out Gep isn't the choice, they're in trouble...big time.
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Garnet Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:56 AM
Response to Reply #27
48. Agreed
you don't put a claim like this on the front page of a major paper unless you are DAMN sure it's true. If it's not true it could very well see to it that you don't report news much longer.
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AlFrankenFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. oh thank you you just saved me from having a heart attack n/t
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. But the headline is "KERRY'S CHOICE: DEM PICKS GEPHARDT."
Edited on Tue Jul-06-04 02:38 AM by VolcanoJen
:shrug:

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a big surprise, but I'm worried.

Seriously f'in worried.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:40 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. in their tabloidian way
He did pick Gephardt, Edwards, and Vilsack to be interviewed. He did make a choice to narrow it down to those 3.

I just don't think THIS is the paper to break the story.

I hope we don't look bad in the morning. :-)
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #25
32. I hope this thread is the Joke of the Morning, honestly.
I saved that cover shot for the ages, just in case they're COMPLETELY FUCKING WRONG.

Please, please, please... let this be the greatest disinformation distributed in the campaign!
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:51 AM
Response to Reply #18
99. Strange.
It is one hell of a weird story. No sources cited - not even "anonymous sources close to the campaign" or anything like that.

If it *is* a fishing expedition, you'd think they might hesitate to display it so prominently.

On the other hand, if they knew/thought they were right, you'd expect them to back up their "scoop" with *something* substantial.
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wickerwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. No, look at the first sentence again. It's not ambiguous.
Edited on Tue Jul-06-04 02:39 AM by bezdomny
"John Kerry has chosen Rep. Richard Gephardt, the veteran congressman from Missouri, to be his running mate, The Post has learned."

has chosen

past tense. The could be means they aren't sure when he will announce it.

If the source is credible, it means Gep is the pick.
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Garnet Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:59 AM
Response to Reply #22
50. I agree
I read the 2nd paragraph "could" to be reporting WHEN he COULD **announce** it him self - NOT that he "could" pick Geph.

The first paragraph is clearly saying he HAS picked Geph. There is no could about it unless they have a reporter who doesn't know proper clear english.
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psychopomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
101. The implication is that the choice was made
However, "has chosen" is a present tense; present perfect to be precise. Just to get nit-pickey. :evilgrin:

If it is true, it is just a ho-hum ticket after all.
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Garnet Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:53 AM
Response to Reply #14
45. Denial
He's it. The freaking front page clearly states "John Kerry has chosen Rep. Richard Gephardt, the veteran congressman from Missouri, to be his running mate"

No "could" on the front page. He's it. Fuck.
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Borgnine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:38 AM
Response to Original message
20. Son of a bitch.
Fucking ass fuck.

Pardon my Cheney. If this is true, then WHY? Why not just pick fucking Lieberman again?
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DWolper Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Gep is NOT Joe Lieberman n/t
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 05:38 AM
Response to Reply #20
107. I agree. Dick Gephardt is NOT Joe Lieberman.
He was duped by Bush*, just as many in Congress were, especially him and Ted Kennedy. They both have agendas now, against Bush*, and don't sell them short. Gephardt has the experience and the vision and the courage. IMHO, we would be extremely lucky to get him. :shrug:
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 05:57 AM
Response to Reply #107
109. Gephardt showed his true character when he bent over backwards for war.
He was planning to run for the nomination long before that and hoped that his strong support of what he felt would be a successful war would make him strong on that issue. He is a coniving, but unskilled political animal and nothing more.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #109
118. No he did not! Gephardt was duped by Bush*, as the rest were
I have listened to the man and he has explained his thinking. He spoke to the highest sources in U.S. intelligence, who assured him that Iraq was an imminent threat. But he also spoke with George Bush*, who assured him that he would try diplomacy first, working with the rest of the world and setting up a true coalition. Bush* lied to Gephardt, as he did to the rest of Congress, the American people, the U.N. and the world community. He staged a preemptive war, against his promises to all these groups, including Gephardt. Gephardt has called Bush* "a miserable failure," and he means it. He may not be the VP choice, but we would be fortunate to have him, in any office. :grr:
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kymar57 Donating Member (377 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
21. cheney,
cheney,cheney,cheney,

Oh well, onward into the breech.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:40 AM
Response to Original message
26. At Least its not Liberman....
:argh:
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liberalmuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #26
39. Kerry could've gotten a better pick...
from a cadaver farm. I refuse to believe our only hope against Bush WANTS to lose this election. Nosirree. The Post is wrong!
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
30. If this is true...
...then I'm disgusted beyond words. Shades of the 2000 election eve, when it was looking so good for a while, and then it all went to hell. Been a shitty millennium ever since.
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AnnitaR Donating Member (958 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
31. It's late... maybe we are all having the same nightmare!
Okay everyone pinch yourselves so we can all wake up from this insanity!

I refuse to believe it! I just can't deal with such a big fucking pile of shit right now!

Gep???
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
33. Kerry should kick the ass of whoever leaked this if it's true
If it's false, he should reward them for making the Right Wing Post look stupid.
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DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:47 AM
Response to Original message
34. Post is famed for Page-Six gossip scoops-- I think they got this...
as they very often get celeb scoops. ("Page Six" is probably the most read gossip column in the US, regardless of the readers' politics.)
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #34
40. Honestly, their celebrity news is the best, and most reliable.
I wonder how in the hell they sourced this kind of news, though?

Politics is a different animal, but it's not much of a stretch to imagine that the NY Post has the sources in place to get this kind of scoop...
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
37. Latest CNN Update
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/07/06/kerry.vp /

One source described Kerry, who has stressed secrecy throughout the vice presidential search process, as "adamant" that he deliver the news, rather than having it break through the media.

I hope he gets his wish, still. :-(
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Garnet Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
38. Fuck
I was hoping to god the report about this earlier wasn't true.

WTF? There were so many FAR superior democrats to pick from.

Is this his way of throwing in the towel?

Hear the cork? That's Rove celebrating. He won't be available for the next week because he's going on a victory vacation.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #38
64. Enough of this defeatist bullshit....nm
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Democat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:52 AM
Response to Original message
44. This had better not be true
Kerry has to be smarter than that.

Gephardt is a wimpy Dem - he is what we need to get rid of, not what we need to promote.

I will support whoever Kerry picks, but I will not have very much faith in Kerry winning against Bush if this is true.
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DWolper Donating Member (238 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #44
51. we?
I believe you asked me in a post above, "Why do I feel strange when you use the word "we"?"

You just wrote above, "Gephardt is a wimpy Dem - he is what we need to get rid of, not what we need to promote."

And who, Democrat, is the "we" in your post?



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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:22 AM
Response to Reply #51
63. You can count me as one of the "we."
Fuck me. If he's truly picking Gephardt he can kiss off getting anyone excited about his campaign. He better hope Gephardt's vaunted labor connections can pull it out for him because he'll need it.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #51
73. "We" is himself and the rest of us who have been here a long time.
We tend to be wary of newcomers - we've had many, many disruptions by wrong-headed ignorant rightwing nutjobs.

Don't take it too personally. I'll offer you a cautious welcome. :)

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Manix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
47. I dunno...not even Sludge is referencing this...it's bogus
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
52. IF this is true...
I've been mulling this over for the last couple of hours, and here's what I think:

IF this is true, then we've just learned Kerry's strategy for the campaign. They will not run a campaign of lofty, well-crafted rhetoric, idealism, and uplifting themes (Edwards.)
No. If this is true, then it's a declaration of trench warfare for the midwest. Gephardt brings with him all the clout of organized labor in those states, many of which are considered "battleground" states. These folks don't forget the people who help them. Gephardt as VP pick instantaneously gives Kerry access to an immense grass-roots organization in the midwest. Additionally, the prospect of a Kerry-Gephardt ticket would bode well for organized labor, as they'd have someone at the top of the ticket, and thus would be more inclined to pull out all the stops.

I was not especially happy when I heard this, since I've been a fan of Edwards-for-prez since back in '02. However, when I look at what Bush is trying to do in places like Ohio (basically a "human wave" attack of volunteers, paid employees, media, etc.) then it makes a lot of sense.

As I see it, it comes down to ideas (Edwards) vs. organization (Gephardt) If Kerry has indeed chosen the latter, then I guess we can expect one hell of a vicious campaign at the local level in the midwest.

Jesus christ, what a weird situation.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #52
59. THIS POST NEEDS TO BE REPEATED...
please post this in the general discussion forum, because it makes a hell of a lot of sense.
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Neecy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:20 AM
Response to Reply #52
61. you make good points...
Kerry's field operations - especially in the battleground states - opened late and aren't exactly overstaffed. Labor could be a huge boost in this area.

Still, what did organization do for Gephardt and Dean in the primaries? Very little.

Personally, I think we needed a shot of youth on the ticket, and what we got was a couple of tired old white men. This from a (tired, it's 3:30 in the morning) white woman. Dammit.
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #61
72. Primaries are different, though.
>Still, what did organization do for Gephardt and Dean in the primaries?

The primaries are a whole different ball of wax, for a couple of reasons. First, you're dealing with mostly hardcore party affiliates (ok, this is a gross oversimplification, but I think it's basically true.) Most of the folks who are going to vote in a primary don't need much prodding to do it. It's not the same as a generalized get-out-the-vote effort in a national presidential election.

Second, the primaries are all about the *top* of the ticket. Gephardt doesn't make much sense at the top of the Democrats' ticket for a lot of the same reasons that Cheney wouldn't make sense at the top of the Republicans' ticket. They're both valuable in their own ways, but they simply don't have that... whatever you want to call it that qualifies them, in the eyes of the general public, for the Presidency.

Third, when talking about the primaries, (with respect to Gephardt,) he was pinning all of his hopes on Iowa. Now, I am no expert in Iowa politics, but I think it's safe to say that organized labor is a lot stronger in places like Cleveland, OH, than it is in most parts of Iowa.

If Kerry really did pick Gephardt, I think the reasoning probably went something like this:

The pool of undecided voters is shrinking. The country is polarized. Given the current state of affairs, it makes more sense to go with a hardcore, labor-driven *massive* get-out-the-vote drive than it does to go with a campaign of lofty ideas. When it gets down to it, this whole thing is going to be decided by a few tens of thousands of voters in a few key states. I think they would assume that they could get more votes in a few key midwestern battleground states, and that far ougweighs any positive impact Edwards might have in the south, where they're pretty sure to lose in most states to begin with.

(On the other hand, Kerry may have chosen Edwards, in which case I'm still pretty damn happy)

As for Dean's organization in the primaries... well, they had an organization, yes. A *big* organization. It was very well put-together for what it was, but it didn't exactly go out and *do* much of anything.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:32 AM
Response to Reply #52
68. OK, but where were the "waves of grassroot support" for Gephardt...
.. in the primaries?

If he couldn't garner support then, why would he now?
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #68
77. See post #72.
Check out my post #72.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #52
89. WTF???
"If this is true, then it's a declaration of trench warfare for the midwest. Gephardt brings with him all the clout of organized labor in those states, many of which are considered "battleground" states. These folks don't forget the people who help them. Gephardt as VP pick instantaneously gives Kerry access to an immense grass-roots organization in the midwest."

Excuuuuuuuuse me, but you must have slept through the Iowa Caucus, where despite all the "clout of organized labor" behind him there, he utterly crashed and burned.

Gephardt adds nothing but TOTAL DEFEAT to Kerry's campaign! Next to Lieberman, he's the worst nightmare in the Democratic party.

:mad:

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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:26 AM
Response to Reply #89
93. Hi there, Mr. Sarcasm.
Gephardt could have had the entire paid staff of the AFL/CIO and one million volunteers in the state, and he *still* would have lost Iowa. Why? Because he's totally useless as a *Presidential* candidate. But we're not nominating him to be *President.* There is a huge, huge, utterly OBVIOUS divide between the qualities that are valued in a president, both by the party apparatus and the people, and the qualities that are valued in a VICE President. Look, I don't want to be an ass, but if you can't even glean that much from a brief glance at the disparities between presidents and vice presidents over the past 50 years, then you are truly beyond help. I mean, Jesus Christ, do you think this country would have ever *elected* FORD as president?
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Garnet Donating Member (43 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:01 AM
Response to Original message
53. On a somewhat interesting side note
I tried to get to DU 10 minutes before I got here. My browser said the domain couldn't be found. I had a feeling something bad happened. 10 minutes later I saw this.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #53
58. I've been having the same problem.. intermittent blackouts!
Not today, please, not today!! :D
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
55. FWIW, ABC World News Now reported the NY Post story...
Edited on Tue Jul-06-04 03:11 AM by VolcanoJen
... and added that a cable news outlet is reporting that Edwards is the choice. Which cable outlet is that, exactly?

:shrug:

ABC is not backing away from their Edwards speculation, but I'm sure their newsroom is trying to confirm or deny the Post story.

Let's hope this is what we're all talking about in a few hours:

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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #55
60. I turned to ABC, nothing
CNN, MSNBC and FOX are all showing reruns of their programs.
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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #60
62. ABC is live, CNN goes live at 5:00 am edt
I doubt we'll know more then, but it's likely they'll all pick up the NY Post "story," just in case.

Encouraging, though, that ABC World News Now isn't taking the story as gospel.
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #62
66. It was like this with the Reagan story.....
One source said he had died, but no major news network ran with it, until it was official.
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expatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
56. Gephardt couldn't win a Kirksville, MO watermelon seed spitting contest...
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #56
90. Eggsactly!
Like the image!
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:25 AM
Response to Original message
65. And Gep claims his reward for kamikaze-ing his candidacy into Dean's.
Edited on Tue Jul-06-04 03:26 AM by stickdog
Just as I predicted the night of the Iowa Caucuses.
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RummyTheDummy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:38 AM
Response to Reply #65
71. Of for Pete's sake!
Get over yourself.

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
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kiahzero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:03 AM
Response to Reply #65
83. Or maybe it's Kerry playing nice with Nader
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phirili Donating Member (451 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #65
91. Post # 65 has it right. Gep sacrificed his candidacy for Kerry.
Gep exposed and destroyed Dean in the primary.

This is second only to Kerry's brilliat cross examination of Dean during one of the debates, the issue was medicare and Dean was unable to defend his position/s.

After General Clark, Gep is the best pick.

It also leaves a level playing field for Edwards and Senator Clinton in 2012.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 07:04 AM
Response to Reply #65
116. Looks like you predicted wrong on the night of the Iowa Caucuses
Don't worry about it though. I hold the record for being wrong around here. :hi:
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:35 AM
Response to Original message
70. Big deal
When's the last time a VP pick won the election? If we need a specific VP candidate to win, we've already lost.

Remember: GHW Bush won with Dan Quaile as his VP pick.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:51 AM
Response to Reply #70
75. Quayle. :)
But then again, since Quayle couldn't even spell Potato, maybe he deserves to have his name mispelled. :)

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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:54 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. no no no! it's quayl! Q...U...A...Y...L! QUAYL!
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:58 AM
Response to Reply #78
79. You say Potatoe and I say Potato :)
Let's call the whole thing off. :)
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lazarus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #75
81. dammit
I meant to misspell it, but I meant to misspell it as "Quayl".

I'm tired, going to bed. :D
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expatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
76. Kerry gives virginity to sad doll

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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:06 AM
Response to Original message
85. With all the princes available, Kerry's picked a frog...
If it is indeed Gep, and I suspect is it now, I'm gonna get it all outta my system today, and start learning to like the guy (as was the case with Kerry).

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Borgnine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
88. A radical thought...
Perhaps someone from the Kerry camp "leaked" this story to the Post in an attempt to discredit them and make the Edwards announcement a true surprise.

One can hope.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:25 AM
Response to Reply #88
92. Now THAT makes sense!
And Murdoch's such a whore for a scoop that he fell for it.

I like it!
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axionII Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:31 AM
Response to Reply #92
94. Huh?
Murdoch writes for the NY Post?
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jmcbroom Donating Member (17 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:39 AM
Response to Reply #94
96. Murdoch owns the NY Post. n/t
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VOX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:49 AM
Response to Reply #88
98. Don't think that Kerry or his people would dishonor Gep this way...
Gep is too drab for words, but I don't think that he'd be used as decoy-fodder.

Just IMO.
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 05:00 AM
Response to Reply #88
100. Beat me to it -
I hope that's the case. Surely Kerry realizes that Gephardt would not be the best choice!
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bitchkitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 04:44 AM
Response to Original message
97. I'm still hoping -
that it's Clark. Maybe this is just a "leak" by an impish Kerry staffer to make Murdoch look bad?
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
104. No way!
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 05:28 AM
Response to Original message
105. If it's true, Kerry wasted his pick.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 05:29 AM
Response to Original message
106. I hope so, as well
Gephardt has the experience and the energy, but will not overshadow Kerry in the campaign. Good choice! :-)
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bushisanidiot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 06:17 AM
Response to Original message
110. Other NY Post Headlines: "Clinton's Penis Takes Over The World!"
Gep at vp is the freeper's wet dream.

sorry, it AIN'T gonna happen..

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Poolio Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
111. place your bets...
Edited on Tue Jul-06-04 06:32 AM by Poolio
here, here, and here.
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Cooley Hurd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 06:37 AM
Response to Original message
112. NBC reports that it has confirmed Edwards as VP...
Murdoch loses again... :eyes:
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Kukesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 06:56 AM
Response to Original message
113. Kick! This is hilarious! n/t
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StatBabe Donating Member (28 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 07:01 AM
Response to Original message
114. I love it!
Edited on Tue Jul-06-04 07:01 AM by StatBabe
The New York Post screwed up! This is a hoot coming from Rupert Murdoch and the other idiot right-wingers that run that newspaper!
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spooked Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 07:05 AM
Response to Reply #114
117. They didn't screw up...
they were duped!! I love it too! lol
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
115. whose head do you suppose will roll over this debacle?
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Merlin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
119. D'OHHHH! The Joke is on The Post!!! AHAAAAHAHAHAHA!
This is a delicious little ruse the Kerry folks must have planted on purpose with Rupert's little feifdom. Exxxxxcellent!
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Maeve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
120. Best laugh of the day! Thanks, Jen!
Their scoop reeks of poop!
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Skinner ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-06-04 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
121. Since the post is now, officially, wrong...
...I'm going to lock this thread.
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