CBS Report: Rumsfeld OK'd Prison Rules

[Tellurian]

...Is Rummy taking the fall for Bush?

CBS/AP) Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld approved interrogation methods for Guantanamo Bay detainees including the use of "stress positions" for up to four hours, "fear of dogs" and "mild non-injurious" physical contact, a newspaper reports.

The Wall Street Journal reports Rumsfeld approved the tactics in December 2002. When military lawyers complained about the tactics being used, officials re-examined the techniques and implemented new rules in an April 2003 memo.

It is not known what tactics were approved in the April 2003 memo, but a March 2003 draft of that memo — revealed earlier this week — contained a legal argument that neither President Bush, nor agents acting on his orders, could be held liable for violating anti-torture laws in the war on terrorism.

USA Today reports that lawyers for Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Richard Myers were worried that tactics included in the April 2003 memo could make the chairman a target for prosecution under laws governing prisoner treatment.

more-much more!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/04/30/iraq/main614905.shtml?cmp=EM8706

[Sliverofhope]

1. "You haven't begun to see evil..."

http://www.j-bradford-delong.net/movable_type/2004_archives/000987.html

Don't worry, no horrid pictures, but a disquieting story from Seymour Hersh.

[Tellurian]

2. Hersh's prognostications coming to light..

Sanchez...gone- under investigation

..."A California National Guardsman says three fellow soldiers brazenly abused detainees during interrogation sessions in an Iraqi police station, threatening them with guns, sticking lit cigarettes in their ears and choking them until they collapsed. Sgt. Greg Ford's commanding officers deny any abuse occurred. The Army's Criminal Investigation Division is investigating."

..."Some Democrats in Congress have said the 2002 and 2003 memos from Justice Department and Pentagon lawyers suggest the Bush administration was constructing a legal defense for torture."

[struggle4progress]

3. I want a special prosecutor. This goes right to the rotten top. n/t

[Tellurian]

4. Yep, and worse, the republicans are sending evangelicals to make nice

with the Iraqis.

What will Bush do if, (he is still in office) the Iraqis slaughter
the missionaries he's sending there? Could this be another excuse for a
threat to nuke Iraq?

[struggle4progress]

7. Got a link on the evangelicals?

Nothing says "Crusade" better than bombing an Islamic country and then sending Christian fundamentalists.

[saigon68]

24. Christian fundamentalists--- I don't think there are many

If there were ---we would be hearing about their burning corpses.

I think there are dozens but no more. I can't imagine thousands of Goobers roaming around in IRAQ-NAM -- not yet any way

[Bandit]

31. Christians are/were quite common in Iraq

In fact Saddam's number two man was a Christian. Iraq was a secular state. It no longer is. Now it is being controlled by fundamentalists. In fact Iraq was the only secular state in the region and that could very well be a reason we invaded it.

[Tellurian]

5. NYT chronology of the run up circumventing treaties and rule of law..

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/09/politics/09TTEX.html?pagewanted=print&position

[struggle4progress]

32. Nice link!

[Jack Rabbit]

6. Impeach him, already

From the Guardian Utd (UK)
Dated March 25, 2003

One rule for them
Five PoWs are mistreated in Iraq and the US cries foul. What about Guantanamo Bay?
By George Monbiot

Suddenly, the government of the United States has discovered the virtues of international law. It may be waging an illegal war against a sovereign state; it may be seeking to destroy every treaty which impedes its attempts to run the world, but when five of its captured soldiers were paraded in front of the Iraqi television cameras on Sunday, Donald Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, immediately complained that "it is against the Geneva convention to show photographs of prisoners of war in a manner that is humiliating for them".
He is, of course, quite right. Article 13 of the third convention, concerning the treatment of prisoners, insists that they "must at all times be protected... against insults and public curiosity". This may number among the less heinous of the possible infringements of the laws of war, but the conventions, ratified by Iraq in 1956, are non-negotiable. If you break them, you should expect to be prosecuted for war crimes.
This being so, Rumsfeld had better watch his back. For this enthusiastic convert to the cause of legal warfare is, as head of the defence department, responsible for a series of crimes sufficient, were he ever to be tried, to put him away for the rest of his natural life.
His prison camp in Guantanamo Bay, in Cuba, where 641 men (nine of whom are British citizens) are held, breaches no fewer than 15 articles of the third convention. The US government broke the first of these (article 13) as soon as the prisoners arrived, by displaying them, just as the Iraqis have done, on television. In this case, however, they were not encouraged to address the cameras. They were kneeling on the ground, hands tied behind their backs, wearing blacked-out goggles and earphones. In breach of article 18, they had been stripped of their own clothes and deprived of their possessions. They were then interned in a penitentiary (against article 22), where they were denied proper mess facilities (26), canteens (28), religious premises (34), opportunities for physical exercise (38), access to the text of the convention (41), freedom to write to their families (70 and 71) and parcels of food and books (72).

Read more.

Note that Monbiot wrote this at the time of the invasion.

[Tellurian]

9. Good One, JR...thanks..nt

[0007]

23. This is the story that must get out! See it here!

The whole world has seen Jamie Dorans's film on the Afghan Massacre, here it is on video.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3267.htm

"As Jamie Doran's film Afghan Massacre: Convoy of Death records, some hundreds, possibly thousands, of them were loaded into container lorries at Qala-i-Zeini, near the town of Mazar-i-Sharif, on November 26 and 27. The doors were sealed and the lorries were left to stand in the sun for several days. At length, they departed for Sheberghan prison, 80 miles away. The prisoners, many of whom were dying of thirst and asphyxiation, started banging on the sides of the trucks. Dostum's men stopped the convoy and machine-gunned the containers. When they arrived at Sheberghan, most of the captives were dead."

[lebkuchen]

34. Thank you for keeping this story alive

Now I know it must have happened.

[Solly Mack]

8. Rummy going down won't be enough....Bush must also go down

for his role as well.

Unless Bush is held responsible...the wounds will never have a chance to heal. The world needs to know that America does give a damn....and giving a damn includes jailing a President who promoted torture.

The soul of America and all she represents demands we hold our "leaders" accountable.

[Tellurian]

10. Yes, the struggle IS for the "soul of America"

and Bush is busy crusading legislation crossing the boundarys between church and state.

[aquart]

12. When?

If he's defeated by Kerry, do you think Kerry or anyone else will bring him up on charges?

A rush to impeachment is the excuse the Republicans need to change the ticket at the convention. Do you want that? I don't.

At this rate, the Republicans will run anyone but Bush. Why? TO KEEP THE CONGRESS.

[Tellurian]

14. The republicans can change it now. And they just might..

[Solly Mack]

15. You know, I'm not looking at this from the political advantage

perspective.

Fact is, this country's President is guilty of encouraging and permitting torture. That's a crime...and one he should be held accountable for...regardless of the politics involved.

Now, for a more realistic look at a country that doesn't have the integrity, honor, or character to jail a criminal President...

I don't for a minute believe anything at all will happen to Bush. He might be branded a war criminal by the general world public...but he'll still walk free.

and frankly, if he is allowed to walk free..that won't speak well of America.

Nixon should have gone to jail. America would have survived it just fine. All that "pardon him to heal the country" bullshit aside..

Bush should go to jail..and I'll be equally as abusive to any excuse put forth not to try the piece of scum....no matter who spouts it.

[Just Me]

26. All the conspirators to commit war crimes should go to jail!!! n/t

[cliss]

11. I've finally come to the conclusion

that Bush and Rumsfeld are behind this. Bush may be stupid, but Rumsfool is savage. I think that will be his new nickname; Donald Savage. I've read a lot of horrid stuff about him on the Internet. He DIGS torture, in particular muslims. That's the best kind.

So they discussed this in detail. Then, to wash their hands of it, they had Steven Cambone do their dirty work. He was the principal planner. Then, to clear himself, he let the minions do the actual torturing.

They knew that if the shit hit the fan, they could always blame the GI's. Which they did.

[Tellurian]

16. The headlines running are saying Bush abused the GIs....

by ordering them to execute the outline of acceptable methods of torture.

In Approving Torture and Abuse, Rumsfeld, Bush, Cheney and Ashcroft Have Made Our Soldiers Potential Victims of Torture and Abuse. This is the Legacy of the Incompetent, Reckless Bush Cartel, the Endangerment of Our Own GIs and Citizens

[daleo]

13. I would guess the WSJ would low-ball any revelations

So there is probably more on the way.

[gottaB]

17. Rumsferatu needs to be brought to justice

Crimes have been committed. Whatever happens to *, Rumsfeld is implicated and he needs to (a) removed from power and (b) brought to justice. There's guilt enough to go around.

[Judi Lynn]

18. If American soldiers were captured and then tortured

as revenge for what we've done to the people packed away in Abu Ghraib, Afghanistan, Cuba, and god knows where, wouldn't that merely provide yet another WAR OP? Wouldn't that simply be handing _Bush another invitation to rev up his war wagon and murder thousands and thousands more human beings?

There's a deterrent for ordinary, intelligent Americans to reject torture, but there's really no deterrent to someone like our chicken hawks who never pay the price with anything but the continuing blood of American men and "furriners." They actually stand to profit in getting additional bidness opportunities for their pet financial backers.

[radfringe]

19. ...Is Rummy taking the fall for Bush?

kinda looks like it... somebody had to appointed as the official White House Sword Fall-er-on-er given that Tenent resigned from that position...

:evilgrin:

[WLKjr]

20. Wait a second

Tenet resigned for just more than "family reasons".

I see him getting out before shit hit the fan, being this news story. Tenet knew it was going to go higher than him. One less person in line to blame makes it keep going up the chain of command. So it would be Rummy next, one of the masterminds of the mother of all phuck ups.

[radfringe]

21. everybody sing...

:evilgrin: "wheels on the bus are falling off, falling off, falling off...." :evilgrin:

[Disturbed]

22. Rumsfailed

The situation is getting closer to criminal charges. What has transpired is not only a normal crime. It is a violation of The Constitution, the Law of Congress, the Geneva Convention and more. This was not "few bad apples". It is a system wide policy sanctioned by the Pres. of the USA. The Pres. said that Rumsfailed was a great Sec. of Defense. It must have been fine with the Pres. that Rumsfailed approved of torture and allowed it to occur. Connect the dots.

What is needed to indicte the Pres. is documentation proving that he approved of torture &/or ordered torture. He must be impeached if it can be shown that there is cause for a trial to ascertain any guilt on his part.If none can be found then he may not be prosecuted. His order regarding torture must be demanded by Congress. If that order does not sanction torture then all who approved of torture and those who carried it out must be indicted for War Crimes.

[lebkuchen]

35. I think Tenet resigned because the Chimp threw a temper tantrum

...couldn't tolerate one more nay-sayer.

[Dhalgren]

25. Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller

must be handed over to the War crimes commission for trial. He is every bit as much a war criminal as any Nazi tried after WWII! He should swing from the gallows, just as the Nazi torturers and savage prison guards did! If we (US) defend this animal, then we are just as guilty as he is!

[alarcojon]

27. Kick

:kick:

[struggle4progress]

28. kick

:kick:

[Algomas]

29. My father fought the Nazis in Europe for his country.

Thank god he is not around to see his sacrifice was all for nothing. The Nazis won out after all.
Bu$hco. uber alles!!!
Then again, maybe we have a slight chance to pound a stake through this vampires heart and begin fixing the mess created in our names.

[struggle4progress]

30. We do seem to have elected "Vlad the impaler"

Welcome to DU :toast:

[Disturbed]

33. "There is a cancer on the Presidency."

There is only one cure. Remove this President! Indicte him for War Crimes and everyone down the chain of command, starting with the VP and the rest.

The Military can no longer be allowed to be in charge of this investigation. That is like putting a corupt Police Dept in charge of investigating their own Dept.

[struggle4progress]

36. Yeah, this cancer is likely to rot the entire body politic.

[Eloriel]

37. kick

[struggle4progress]

38. kick

:kick: