Christian group wants South Carolina to secede

[rawstory]

Found on the liberal alternative to Drudge, The Raw Story, http://www.rawstory.com

Group Wants Christians To Fill S.C., Secede
Organization Hopes To Persuade Christians To Move South
Rick Ellis
wsoctv.com

UPDATED: 10:10 AM EDT June 10, 2004
A newly-formed group of Christian activists has begun plans to encourage up to 12,000 like-minded individuals to move to South Carolina. Their hope is to eventually withdraw that state from the United States and "reestablish the sovereign Christian nation of South Carolina."

The Tyler, Texas-based Christian Exodus has launched a Web site, ChristianExodus.com, and has begun encouraging visitors to sign up to participate in what the Web site says is "an association of Christians who no longer wish to live under the unjust usurpation of powers by the federal government."

According to the organization's Web site, "Christians have actively tried to return the United States to their moral foundations for more than 20 years. We now have a 'Christian' president, a 'Christian' attorney general, and a Republican Congress and Supreme Court. Yet consider this:

Abortion continues against the wishes of many states

Children may not pray in our schools

The Bible is not welcome in schools except under strict federal guidelines

The 10 Commandments remain banned from public display

Sodomy is now legal and celebrated as 'diversity' rather than perversion Preaching Christianity will soon be outlawed as 'hate speech' separated from line above

Gay marriage will be foisted upon us in the very near future"

The group's solution is to convince at least 12,000 people to move to South Carolina, where it is hoped their numbers will be sufficient to influence state and local politics with the "express purpose of reestablishing a Godly, constitutional government." Ultimately, the group hopes to convince voters to somehow withdraw the state from the United States and form an independent, Christian-oriented country.

http://www.wsoctv.com/family/3403144/detail.html

[molly]

1. I guess they must 12,000 new jobs in SC

let's go!

[Maeve]

2. That is too, too funny

I suppose it's nice to have a dream and a hobby, though...

(Hint to these folks, in terms they may understand--ain't no body gonna force you to marry no gays, even in San Francisco, so calm down)

[Joanne98]

3. Good. Get them all in the same state then spray them with Raid.....

And don't forget to invite the head cockroach, Tom Delay.

[The Blue Knight]

5. If SC did secede...it wouldn't bother me.

:-P

[Carolina]

61. hey, play nice

some of us are transplants trying to make a difference. And it ain't all bad although it took me ~3 years to adjust to my husband's home.

Since the fuckwit with this idea and people like Bush, DeLay, Armey, Phil Graham etc. come from the LONE star state, I say let Texas secede.

[Shopaholic]

72. I'm a native of SC and I'm a liberal Democrat too

I guess that means I'll have to move. . . oh well, too many damn Repugs in this state now as it is! But if they're from Texas then why move to SC? Why not stay in Texas and establish their own nation there?

[Carolina]

77. Hi

you, me, Say It Ain't So, Cheshire Cat, kayell, and Corgigal should arrange a DU meetup. There's hope and joy in numbers especially since repukes dominate in this state.

Have you seen the nauseating Beasley Senate ads with some lame-brain Stepford woman saying: he'll be a leader just like George Bush :mad:

[rednek_Liberal]

97. No the best one is the two Good ole boys on the porch ...

saying "I like this here Beasly feller"

[kayell]

105. Sounds like fun!

The meetup, not the Beastley ads.

[SayitAintSo]

115. My MY ... Are we having a little SC convention here ?

What a wonderful thang ! Carolina ... we're not alone !!!! A few more liberals in this gawd forsaken place ! Let's do have a SC DU get together .. actually it would be a support group ... we will need it ...getting through this election season down here, in RED country.

[rednek_Liberal]

136. Yes I think we do need a Democratic Support Group here

I tend to be codependant politically speaking.

[rednek_Liberal]

96. So your the other one ....nice to meet ya

Im the lone Lib in the upstate I think.
I just snuck into their forum and grabbed this little Gem:

BestChristianEver:"My question is this: once we take South Carolina, how do we deal with the indigenous people? Can they be relocated to other states to make room for our Righteous Army?"


OOOOh scary methinks...

[Carolina]

101. OMG, poor you

the upstate feels like alien territory politically. This is hubby's native land and if he had moved me to the upstate rather than Columbia, I'd either have had to be medicated or we would have had to live apart.

BTW, love your question to THEM, :think:

[kayell]

106. Hi! Now there are 2 of us in the upstate.

Actually I know a few more liberals in the upstate, although I don't think they post on DU. I also know quite a few conservatives who appear to either be doing some serious soul searching, or who have their tails tucked firmly between their legs.

I really don't see even most of the serious church going folks in this state appreciating an invasion of out of state people wanting to make big changes to the govt. here. Not to mention grabbing scarce jobs.

I spent a bit of time watching the proceedings in their forums also. Scary stuff. Do you think BestChristianEver is REALLY Betty Bowers?

[rednek_Liberal]

135. Who is Betty Bowers

Nevermind I just Googled Her... Is she for Real????
This has to be a joke have you seen her website?

[kayell]

151. Satire, and like the best satire, perilously close to the truth

check out the related site http://www.whitehouse.org/ for more fun.

[Joanne98]

89. Uhhh Sorry guys.

No offense. :)

[nodehopper]

20. wow there

I totally understand that you are kidding, but chemical extermination and especially calling opposition "cockroaches" has been used in such historical contexts that, at least for me, it resonates weirdly.

[The Stranger]

46. It's a waste of perfectly good insecticide.

[Raster]

4. normally i don't believe in nuclear proliferation, but...

[struggle4progress]

6. I was hoping they would target Florida first:

after Kerry wins, I want to hear the hissing whisper of the crowd "Secede, Jebbie, secede!"

[Terran]

10. They can take Texas too...please

No offense to our own Texan bretheren here, but, well...you know. I'll take some of you in here in beautiful Missouri, plus we could use more Libs here!

Dirk

[amber dog democrat]

18. Yep we are all Christian Cowboys...

down here. I don't understand how thing got so polarized in Texas either.
You can have this state.... and this is from a 4th generation Texan from the cattle and ranching culture.

I ascribe it to a latent mean streak that has always been evident in Texas politics and the virulant nature of well organized Christian Con SS ervatives.

They are no more Christian than I am .

[Dover]

62. ..I attribute it to an abundance of rural communities, lack of a

good education (where the gym teachers don't do double duty as a math teacher) and exposure to other cultures. Rural communities are terrified of the encroachment of the big city folks too, and blame that for moral decay and the corruption of their children (who most often can't wait to get out of town when they are old enough). It doesn't even occur to their parents that it is actually quite natural for young people to desire change and exposure to new things, etc. The parents assume the problem is that there is no prayer allowed in the schools and not enough religion in their children's lives. It's a blame game.

[amber dog democrat]

68. Overheard in a diner in Henrietta Texas,

I watched a mother tell her 5 or 6 year old son, " Now when you fight someone, you don't look away, you look them in the eyes when you fight "

I agree with you about education and xenophobia in rural Texas. Its a whole different world and does not seem to change very much.

[Dover]

73. Don't know if you watched PBS's Colonial House..

but it brought people together to re-enact and re-experience Colonial life (1600's) in a very small village on the east coast.

One of the families that participated were strong Baptists from the Waco Tx. area (not exactly rural). After a great deal of stress around the issue of religion and attendance at church, the eldest daughter replied that she just had not realized how many different types of belief systems, people and perspectives there were that directly challenged her own. She wanted to go back to her church and tight community.

So yes, it's a very insular group, and I'm sure exposure to "others" is very frightening, stressful and disorienting. The same would be true for ANY isolated group that had established it's own codes for living and beliefs. It's interesting to me that those who preach that everyone but TRUE believers will be 'left behind' in the rapture, feel very much left behind in the amidst of these seemingly fast paced and chaotic times.

How do isolated groups get integrated into society? Or is this just one of those situations where, if they don't isolate and buffer themselves they become extinct?

[Ilsa]

81. I'll you what happened to one of them in my small city.

A young man, raised in the faith, a very strong Catholic family and community, and i believe he was an eagle scout, moved off to college, but it was Baylor, nice expensive private baptist university. He got involved with other people, wanted more money, so he got into a little trouble stealing. Next thing, he came home for the Christmas holidays, stabbed his mother and brother to death and killed his father. He also killed the family dog. Then he burned the house down around them. I'm not shitting you, a fine young american did this when he got out f his element of origin. He was sentenced to three consecutive life terms last week.

BTW, I've watched that show on PBS a couple of times and was struck how individual behaviors were designed around the benefit of the community. I hate that I missed that part about culture shock on the part of the young women. Did you hear the young man who graduated from a conservative Christian college announce he's gay to the group? They took it pretty well.

[LiberalFighter]

94. Wasn't it a form of socialism back during Puritan days?

Didn't they have to share in everything?

[CJCRANE]

150. That guy's just psychotic, doesn't matter where he's from eom

.

[Auntie Bush]

86. Same reasons Muslims don't like us!

[Gman]

23. From a Texan...

Sorry, you can keep Missouri for many reasons, the least of which is politics!

[Bridget Burke]

43. The state that gave us Ashcroft!

Another Texan who remembers that nobody is perfect....

[amber dog democrat]

75. And we gave them the Chimp.

....what beast its hour come round at last, slouches to Washington DC to be born?


I swear Bush would have aided Santa Anna.

[mom cat]

91. That Connecticut Yankee ain't no Texan! Pleeese!

The "family home" in Houston was the Ritz Hotel. Now Molly Ivans and Jim Hightower are real Texans. So was the late, great Barbara Jordan. I am from Texas, and therefore the south. I don't think it helps our cause to bad mouth the south and the people there. Such tactics only alienate potential voters...frequently those who are economically distressed and being jerked around like us. We have a great message, but if we wrap it in hate, it can't be heard.

[Gman]

95. Bush has no family here in Texas

besides those else that have moved here. All sides of my family came to Texas from Europe in the 1850's. They all got off the boat in Galveton. I'm a Texan. Bush and his family are not.

[AspenRose]

142. It was the Shamrock Hotel.

eom

[Moloch]

160. Now now...

Let us not forget that last time Asscroft ran for Senate in Mo. he was beaten by a dead man...

[Stuckinthebush]

7. The American Taliban

Same group, different language.

I honestly think that the future holds a divided USA. We are too polarized and it is getting worse. There is no way that liberals/progressives or even moderates would want to live in a theocracy, and there is no way that hard-core religionists want to live in a secular nation. I see the future, and it ain't pretty for the good old USA.

[Voltaire99]

58. And as with the Taliban, they must have their victims. . .

Yes, these are our Taliban.

In no way, though, will they ever be contented by separatism. Although they preach secession, the true aim of the theocrat is a unique kind of violent integration: they want everyone to love Good ol' God/Jesus/Allah/etc., or suffer the consequences.

I would imagine what percolates in the dark brain of these dreamers is the idea that having a state's resources would multiply their power to inflict faith. And most importantly, the punishments of apostasy.

[meegbear]

8. Wasn't SC the first state to sucede during the Civil War?

Does this mean they support slavery?

[aquart]

11. Hey, it's in the Bible.

[LastDemocratInSC]

71. Each state seceded on its own, but it was an organized effort

South Carolina led the secession movement but each state had its own "Articles of Secession". The slavery issue was openly mentioned in the articles of some states and less so in others. In Mississippi, for example, they were front and center about how slavery was the primary reason for secession.

South Carolina's real claim to fame is not so much that it seceded first, but that dumbbell Citadel cadets started the Civil War by firing cannons at Fort Sumter in Charleston harbor.

For a sampling of the Articles of Secession from several states, try this link.

http://www.mdcbowen.org/p2/rm/debunk/secession.htm

[indypaul]

82. Yes,I believe they were first

and one of their state senators who objected to
secession put it rather correctly when he told
them the state was too small to be a sovereign
nation and too large to be an insane asylum.
Or words to that effect, but pretty appropriate
today as they proved to be then.

[rogerashton]

9. My metropolitan newspaper,

the Inky, runs a column, I think syndicated, called "Spinsanity," that is supposed to debunk the campaign rhetoric -- and supposedly to be unbiased.

It has often done a good job.

Yesterday, however, they were being really horrified that some "liberals" refered to the "Taliban wing" of conservatism. But what else could you call this?

Fundamentalism is a source of problems around the globe. The politics of Hindutva is a negative for India, ultraorthodoxy poisons Israel, and then you have Wahabism and al-Qaeda in Islam. To link Protestant Fundamentalism to all of those movements is simply to observe the parallels that exist in fact.

[ElementaryPenguin]

12. So do I.

:toast:

[iconoclastic cat]

13. Bye! So long! See ya! Bye-bye! Later! Hasta lavista! Ciao!

Cue Nelson again: "Ha, ha!"

[Shadder]

14. Check out the website for these nuts

http://www.christianexodus.com/

[amber dog democrat]

19. Unbelievable. Is this for real?

Its gotta be a joke, isnt it?

Not everybody in South Carolina is going to support this.

[Shadder]

21. No link to The Onion from it

Guess it's real....

[amber dog democrat]

41. Hmmmm.

its just a mad dream.


If each exclusive dogmatized cult could create a freehold dominion where the full practice of their faith could be dominant, where would the rest of the world's inhabitants live?

And if it actually happens, it will create a society something of a cross between The Handmaid's Tale one one end and Lord of the Flies, on another.

A religeous cabin fever would set in. They would go after each other.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

117. They've got a pretty high visitor count right now...

Who's Online
We have 145 guests and 15 members online

Welcome Guest, become a member today.

[crossroads]

131. 78 visitors and 10 members @ 1:20 am central time...

must be us...
lol...
:shrug:

[Tight_rope]

124. Hey...they have one good point in their mission statement!

The only good thing about their mission statement is this true statement, "It is evident that the U.S. Constitution has been abandoned under our current federal system".

At least that got that part right.

http://www.christianexodus.com/

[Tight_rope]

125. Hey...they have one good point in their mission statement!

The only good thing about their mission statement is this true statement, "It is evident that the U.S. Constitution has been abandoned under our current federal system".

At least that got that part right.

http://www.christianexodus.com/

[crossroads]

130. Woooahh! These people are... off the chain...

They seem organized too...
:eyes:

[PATRICK]

15. What happened to the other

squatters that raptured themselves to Vermont(?) or some quietly poor New England state to displace the natives?

[KamaAina]

70. It was New Hampshire, and (surprise) they're still at it

http://www.freestateproject.org/index.jsp

There's no better place for freedom-loving Americans than New Hampshire... New Hampshire was the state chosen by signed FSP participants in a vote that took place in August and September 2003. It was chosen because it has the lowest state and local tax burden in the continental U.S., the second-lowest level of dependence on federal spending in the U.S., a citizen legislature where state house representatives have not raised their $100 per year salary since 1889, the lowest crime levels in the U.S., a dynamic economy with plenty of jobs and investment, and a culture of individual responsibility indicated by, for example, a lack of seatbelt and helmet requirements for adults.

My, my. Judging by that last part, they seem to be in favor of traumatic brain injury.

Question: What's the sanest, most reasonable state left, where WE could settle?

[SharonAnn]

162. Oooh, and plenty of organs available for transplant

with no seatbelt and helmet requirements.

[iconoclastic cat]

16. Hey, then we could cut them off from the power grid!

How about we hire someone to start walling SC off...hmmm, who would do a good job with that...

[amber dog democrat]

120. Ariel Sharon.... ( sp )

when he get finished walling off the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and Palestine from Isreal, he can come here and start walling off South Carolina.

Maybe he can move some settlers here on the SC frontier.

This is not intended to offend...

[drumwolf]

17. DO IT!!!!!

And don't let the door hit your asses on the way out!

[CheshireCat]

22. Not in my SC!

We don't need anymore fundies in SC.

There are many progressives in SC who have chosen to stay in this state and fight the fundies and the Repukes. The midlands of SC is Democratic. I have a relative that had to switch from the Repub. to the Democratic party to get elected in Richland county.

If they must come to SC, send them to the upstate - Spartanburg/Greenville area. This is the conservative part of SC.

These fundies aren't wanted in the Columbia and Charleston.

[kayell]

29. Thanks Cheshire, but no thanks. Not in MY SC either!

we have plenty of those types already in the upstate. No need for any more of those fools.

I'm going to be nervous as hell from here on about every house that goes up for sale near me. I live in a nice sane little neighborhood in this otherwise insane area, and I'd like it to stay that way.

The only hope is that there just aren't any jobs for these fools anyway up here.

[KoKo]

107. Yayyy Charleston! Although it's much more conservative than when I

grew up there.

[Shopaholic]

74. We don't want 'em in the Pee Dee either

That would be the Florence area for those of you unfamiliar with the state. Really, there are Democrats and many progressive thinking people here. We just get shouted out and pushed down by the Repugs.:puke:

[rednek_Liberal]

99. no please dont send them here

I already have to deal with the BJU crowd.
Ive never seen so many tight-assed white people in my life.

[kayell]

109. Bob Jones *shudder*

Those are some wierd looking kids. Whenever I'm in Greenville they are SO easy to spot out on the town for their weekend expeditions - chaperones and little groups of nervous girls with long skirts, huddled together for fear of outside contagion. The males are even worse. My daughter and I were stopped at a light near BJU one day and she had her legs propped up on the dash. 2 young BJUers were on the sidewalk staring in rapt horror and lust at her shorts clad legs. The poor thing obviously were both terrified and fascinated by such a "Jezebel"!

I can not imagine how they function in the world after graduation.

[delete_bush]

112. The acronym makes the

place sound more interesting. What exactly do they teach at BJU?

[rednek_Liberal]

133. Well Definetly NOT what your thinking...

you dirty dirty man you J/K

[Kookaburra]

24. Didn't Jim Bakker try that about 20 years ago?

PTL?

[DivinBreuvage]

25. YES!!! I always knew this day would come.

Ho! for the sunny south, gentlemen! And this time, finish it.

[comsymp]

28. Care to elaborate on "finish it"?

:grr:

[DivinBreuvage]

38. Sure. This time the conservatives and racists don't get to regain control

of their state governments, nor will they be permitted to restore the same old unjust racist socioeconomic system they had before the war. Does that aggrieve you? I am not speaking of all white Southerners, just about conservatives, racists, fundamentalists, and other such creatures whose mental and moral defects render them unfit to hold power over anything.

If you want to resurrect Stonewall or Patrick Cleburne to come up here and get rid of their Northern counterparts, you be my guest, Johnny.

[comsymp]

44. No thanks-

Since I'm not particularly hawkish by nature and am opposed to this Administration's military invasion of, and regime change in, Iraq I can't join you in support of war and cleansing under any circumstances.


What aggrieves me, TY for asking, is the "go get 'em" suggestion to individuals who oversaw/directed wholesale destruction in the name of the US, on a scale that we (here) blow our collective stack over when it's reported from abroad. (and a hint from a Southerner:) Even the most liberal among us isn't likely to find a reference to sending Sherman & Co back to "finish the job" particularly amusing.

And as for the bassackwards, fundy, bigoted riffraff in your own state, and from my own personal experience, they're legion- they're for Ohioans to deal with.

[Sterling]

98. I support it.

It was a mistake to let the "old south" off so easy after the war. They should have had top earn their way back in to the democracy.

As of yet they are still dragging the country down the toilet.

[yardwork]

34. Hey! I live down here in the south and it may surprise a lot of people

but it's probably no more conservative or fundamentalist than many states in the north, including the home state (Ohio) of some of those fellows pictured above.

These fundie lunatics may think that South Carolina is a vast unpopulated wilderness just waiting for them to arrive, but the truth is that lots of people already live in SC, and there aren't enough jobs to go around as it is.

I have no problem with the fundy-seccessionists leaving the country, but they're going to have to go further than South Carolina.

[DavidMS]

121. Seems like the neo-confedeates need a history lesson.

Why poor, rural, maleducated nation states with massive wealth disparity regulary get beaten.

[Emboldened Chimp]

26. Good God, the Handmaid's Tale coming true to life!

I get the feeling we're headed for some weird combination of the Handmaid's Tale, Brave New World and 1984. All three nightmares come true!

[abelenkpe]

103. I was thinking the same thing

Handmaid's Tale. Scary world we live in, isn't it?

[Just Me]

27. Awww, man, do I feel sorry for SCers having to fight off theocracy! n/t

[struggle4progress]

42. I predict that these secessionists will end up hunkered down ...

in a bunker with a big cache of ammo, shooting at the federal agents who come to arrest them for income tax fraud.

It should be great PR for South Carolina!

[Just Me]

52. EW! I hope not! n/t

[struggle4progress]

60. You're welcome to try to talk them out of it.

But I can't think of anti-federal Texas religious nuts without remembering the Waco whackos, and I always expect announced secessionists to militarize eventually.

Still, we can all cross our fingers.

[jukes]

30. call me a pessimist

or even an intolerant asshole.

i despise these demented, dangerous fundy POS. i'm apsitively certain that there will be bloodshed w/in our country over this filth very soon. i want them in their own country so they're out of ours. i think s.c., ga, y fla wd be a good chunk for them, y will GLADLY move out of georgia whenever they finish taking it over.

there's not a doubt in my mind that a HUGE ugly holywar is on it's way between islam & xianity. the sane will be crushed in between.

[bemildred]

31. Give them Diego Garcia. nt

[jukes]

32. and, hey:

maybe charleton heston can lead them to the promised land!

[ladjf]

33. They've already done that once and it didn't work out too well.

[Bridget Burke]

48. What about "Forget, Hell!"

I guess they forgot....

[ladjf]

69. It's interesting to note that the same people who

instigated the American Civil War are doing it again, using the same flawed logic that their culture and personal rights were being infringed upon by the central government.

If you will examine the statistics on where the Republican voting strength lies, you will see that it centers around Southerners, especially white males. They sincerely feel vulnerable to change that that the sense is occurring. To them, it's all a specter of doom, nothing like the "shining cities" they've been promise by their spiritual leaders.

The bottom line is that superstition is somewhat harmless until it becomes powerful enough to install it's leaders in the highest offices, as is the case in the U.S. today. We can't afford to have a President who practices voodoo. (You will recall that Reagan and Nancy consulted with their fortune teller prior to important international meetings.)

Bush believes that he is in direct contact with God and receives his instructions from him/her. In psychiatric settings, such proclamations are considered to be symptoms of serious dementia.

The only sciences that are being respected by the administration are those if media manipulation, marketing, and weaponry. This is a recipe for disaster.

[kayell]

35. If these folks want their own country, Nauru might be available soon

I'm sure many Nauruans would be glad to trade their real estate in for some on solid ground. And since they will only need it for the few years until the Rapture, the hard-core christians shouldn't mind the environmental problems.

[Ganja Ninja]

39. Great Idea! Maybe we can set up some sort of citizen exchange.

Offer them 3 Christians for one godless heathen and see if they fall for it.

[struggle4progress]

36. Maybe this is a scheme, by the good people of Tyler TX, to ...

rid themselves of those irritating fundies.

[comsymp]

37. Don't blame 'em, but Texas has to stop exporting their trash-

The rest of us have our own messes to clean up.

[Carolina]

64. LOL

"Texas has to stop exporting its trash." I second that.

[JayS]

79. Shhhhhh! Didn't you get the memo?

Ixnay on the talkiay!

:) :) :)

[colonel odis]

40. send them to afghanistan. the natural beauty is great.

get them out of our country, though. that sort of thinking is anathema to what a lot of great men fought to prevent and what a lot of good and decent men laid down their lives for.

our federal union. it must be preserved.

talk of secession should be treated as treason, the way it was when andrew jackson was in the white house. if they want to try it, send in federal troops to hang the instigators.

[Heidi]

45. Don't let . . .

the door hitcha in the ass on the way out, as we used to say in the South I grew up in.

[midnight armadillo]

47. Some libertarians

There's a group of libertarians that want to do the same thing...get enough people to a state to create a 'critical mass' of voters to institute a strict libertarian form of government.

Ah, here's the link, the Free State Project: http://www.freestateproject.org/index.jsp

On further reading...aww crap, they want to move 20k libertarians to New Hampshire.
:puke:

[gauguin57]

49. Get all the Dems out of Florida,

... put all the southern Jesus-freaks who want to secede in FLORIDA, and then cut the damned place loose and let it drift out into the ocean. Oh, and I guess you can move Epcot and Universal studios and all that crap to Myrtle Beach before you cut it loose. Or not. Make sure Katherine Harris and Jebby-poo are still in Fla. before you cut it loose.

[sofa king]

66. You wouldn't have to cut it off.

Florida is essentially a sand bar with a mean elevation of only 100 feet above sea level. Hand it off to the 'thumpers, let them "subdue the earth" as their good book tells 'em, and within a century half of the state will have eroded back into the sea. Unless of course Jesus comes back, which is what a lot of 'em are counting on. (Paging James Watt....)

However, Florida has nice beaches, several excellent ethnic and sexual preference communities, an interesting modern music scene, and wonderful wildlife. All of these things would face impending doom were the state to be ceded to the fundies.

As for South Carolina? As far as I'm concerned, I've seen only three cities worth visiting in the deep south: New Orleans, Savannah, and Charleston, in that order. (I hear Austin is pretty cool, too, but I haven't been there yet. And apologies to those of you who live in nice places which I have yet to visit.) Charleston is a definite keeper.

I believe the two places one usually goes to set up a whacko religious cult in America are Missouri and Utah.* Missouri had the balls to vote for a dead guy over John Ashcroft, so I'd like to keep them. Utah, on the other hand, is made up of six nice straight lines which could be more easily fenced off. Plus, they'll be more concerned about messing with the Mormons than the will be with fucking up the rest of the country. As an added bonus, they'll make a pretty penny charging tourists for snowmobiling and four-wheeling through former national parks, until the place is too torn up for anyone to want to visit. And when that day comes, we can say to them, "you don't have to worry about the environment--the Second Coming is at hand." That oughta keep 'em busy for a couple more decades.

I say send 'em there.

* California also has a tradition of accepting religious lunatics, but our friends the 'thumpers seem to be particularly unwilling to share. I don't think they'd do so well in CA.

[Voltaire99]

50. Prosecute these medieval idiots for sedition now!

And then, throw them to the lions. ;-)

[Dover]

51. I think we should drop them all on an island to play Survivor for REAL

It would be interesting to see just HOW they would set up their own "government". What would that look like? Why should they remain in the UNITED states and reap the benefits of pluralistic, inclusive, democratic activities and yet remain unaccountable to its laws? God will provide.

Or maybe the Amish will take them in.

What I do like about this is that they are leaving Texas! YES!

[Morning Dew]

53. They'd be screaming

if the nearly 4 million Muslims in this country called for this type of action.


I don't want ANY religion running government.

[Morning Dew]

54. They'd be screaming

if the nearly 4 million Muslims in this country called for this type of action.


I don't want ANY religion running government.

[leyton]

55. And then we can give its electoral votes to Minnesota.

Other red states are welcome to secede as well (except NC!). All electoral votes will be funneled to Minnesota.

[dawg]

146. If all the liberal refugees fled to NC ...

it might be enough to turn that state blue.

[Guaranteed]

56. Fine with me. Let's see how their economy does without the billions

in subsidies that the feds hand out to them. They've been draining us for too long.

[denverbill]

57. Hmm. Traitors. What's the penalty for treason anyway?

Conservatives want to execute liberals for treason because they are against tax cuts. For some reason, they don't seem to have any problem with ACTUAL treason.

[Carolina]

59. actually this 'news' is about 3+ weeks old

and still stupid. SC couldn't survive without the FEDS so these secessionist fundies can forget it.

As for the holy 12,000, they better have independent money 'cause ain't no jobs to be had. The State budget is a disaster.

[SayitAintSo]

116. Why Carolina didn't you know - The Lord Will Provide !!!

They don't need jobs .....

[Lorien]

63. Give 'em half of SC, and half of Texas

(the ugly, polluted parts-republicans hate nature and love their toxins). Let them take their "God fearing" pResident and AG, too!

[Carolina]

65. Hi y'all

to Cheshire Cat, kayell and yardwork :hi:

[kayell]

152. Hi right back!

:hi:

[Corgigal]

67. Ah lovely

I live a few miles outside of Charleston and it's stuff like this that embarrasses me daily. I just moved here because it's CHEAP but if they want to do this then I'm opening up a paypal account where people can donate to me so I can rent a U-Haul for places unknown.

[havocmom]

76. So, let me get this straight; we want the Constitution followed and

church and state kept separate and they (the secessionists) want them merged, in violation with the Constitution. OK, so why do so many of THEM say that we are the ones who 'hate America'?

If they wanna secede, are they gonna pay off the folks who don't want to live in a theocracy for their property and investments in their careers so they can move or are they just gonna take it all? Are they gonna pay the US for all the infrastructure already in place? Are they gonna pay off all the mortgages which might be federally insured?

And most importantly, are they gonna take Rush, O'Rielly, Hannity and Coulter? Then the US can jam any broadcast signal coming out of there?

That last questions could be the deal maker.

Frankly, the US should present them with a bill. If they are gonna act like teenagers threatening to 'run away from home' because they don't like all the rules, make them pay up like grown ups for their independence. They can start by paying the citizens there who don't agree and then fork over some bucks to the federal pot.

Oh, and can I be the one to tell them the rest of us are NOT paying one cent for their defense? heh heh heh
:: havocmom rubbing her hands together in gleeful anticipation::

[GOPBasher]

78. Yeah!!!!! I'd love that!!!!

I hope they go! Goodbye!! :bounce:

[Solly Mack]

80. They can't have any part of America.

They are courting treason by encouraging the sundering of the union.
They should be treated as such.

[indepat]

83. I have no problem with South Carolina's succession if that's what they

really, really want.

[screembloodymurder]

84. Terrorist !

Torture the basturds.

[struggle4progress]

85. Maybe these folks would like to start a Mars colony!

[xxqqqzme]

87. no SC...no TX....

rabid religious RW can have NO states w/ beaches (great lake states) and ocean. They won't appreciate or protect it. They can have an INTERIOR state ONLY, I'm suggesting IN (I know a teeny part touches Lake Michigan but it is minimal). Grew up there, left 'n don't want 2 go back.

[struggle4progress]

126. Some place in "Tornado Alley"? Say, Kansas?

[Dover]

88. Two things about this article give me hope...for them AND for everyone.

It's clear that THIS group has recognized that,

A. They cannot bend the world to suit themselves and their beliefs
B. That their representatives in Washington cannot, or will not, accomodate them either...for various and sundry reasons. (Still doesn't occur to them that they are political pawns).

However, they do still seem to have an evangelical mission regarding eventual expansion and conversion of the rest of the country , once they establish a solid power structure within their own state. Taking smaller bites, apparently.
So controlling their and other's universe in the name of God is still on the agenda.

At least the first two realizations seem like healthy acknowledgements...a beginning. The missionary stuff is much more difficult because it is tied with what they consider their reason for being.

What they haven't work out, is just where all that leaves them. Their attempt at a solution is to do, more or less, what the Amish and a few other religious groups have done, as a first step. Perhaps we should help them do that, and/or work with them in some other constructive manner. I don't know how attempts at integration with the rest of the world would work. It would have to be based on MUTUAL respect for the other and a conscious attempt to bridge the gap. Isolation doesn't seem to be the healthiest solution, but it may be the only one if this polarization persists.

One thing seems clear to me, though. We cannot ignore or sweep this issue under the rug again where it will fester. As with fundamentalist activities everywhere, a disenfranchised group that is not given voice can grow into a HUGE problem down the road. This needs to be faced and dealt with SOMEHOW.

[KoKo]

108. But, Geeze, Dover....this is the state I grew up in and left but it's my

birthplace. Should we be trashing it like this?

Sigh...but I understand your point. I don't live there and haven't for too many years. And, I do understand that we have some growing Fundie Group in America who thinks it "MUST BE FREE." Why don't they just leave America if they want to be free, then. Go somewhere where they can "colonize and commune" and live the lives they want.

I wish I could find someplace that isn't Bush America to be free...maybe you do too!

[Tabucky]

90. GOOD NEWS

Who the fuck needs South Carolina anyways? I can imagine bumper stickers reading: WWSD (what would strom do).

[kayell]

110. Well gee, some of us who live here kind of need it.

And don't want any damn crazies from TX trying to change it. You might want to look at the demographics for this state. It's not all old white guys, you know.

[rednek_Liberal]

138. Who the fuck needs South Carolina anyways??

Who the fuck needs South Carolina anyways....

How about all the people who Have Mortgages with BB&T Bank, the Corporate Mortgage servicing center is in Greenville.

How about all the people who drive BMW's, built by hard working South Carolinians.

How about people who ride on Michelin Tires... US headquarters right here in Greenville.

How about not having such a cavalier attitude about someplace you know nothing about.

[David Zephyr]

92. Let Their People Go.

I'll sing "Exodus" for them.

[Ilsa]

93. With no one else to hate, they'll

turn to feed on themselves in a brief matter of time.

[northofdenali]

100. There's this neat little island in the Aleutians called Attu........

Already set up with barracks, cooking facilities, etc. No one lives there. No one wants to live there. It would make an excellent prison - er - retreat...........



But first, we bomb the runways and then take their boats.

[northofdenali]

102. There's this neat little island in the Aleutians called Attu........

Already set up with barracks, cooking facilities, etc. No one lives there. No one wants to live there. It would make an excellent prison - er - retreat...........


Deserted barracks





Given its location and size, Alaska sure wouldn't miss it. But first, we bomb the runways and then take their boats.

[dansolo]

104. Let them go

Just wait until they realize that they won't have federal tax revenues to cover a lot of services that they will need to provide.

[Liberal Gramma]

111. Isn't there room for them in the new state of Iraq?

[givemebackmycountry]

114. JUST out of curiosity...

How many blacks are going to be allowed to live in this "Godly Christian State"?

How many Jews are going to be allowed to live in this "Godly Christian State"?

How many Muslims are going to be allowed to live in this "Godly Christian State"?

How many gays are going to be allowed to live in this "Godly Christian State"?

How many liberals are going to be allowed to live in this "Godly Christian State"?

How are they going to get all of these people to leave?
Because simple demographics would lead one to believe that some of these groups of people live there today.

What are they going to do...shoot em?

"Godly Christian State"?

You got to be shitting me.

[Tabucky]

158. ditto all the way

.

[Catt03]

165. It is not about diversity; it is about majority

so if you do not agree, then you relocate or vote them out. But I don't understand what chance you would have to vote change if they seceded and had their own constitution for just Christians

Interests of minority in South Carolina:

If secession is effected in South Carolina, there will be a minority of unionists in the state. The under girding principle in a representative form of government is that majority rules. It then becomes the responsibility of the minority to relocate or change the policies of the state through the ballot box. It would be a great injustice to suggest that the preference of the minority ought to prevail over that of the majority.


Position paper

http://www.christianexodus.com/index.php?module=PostWrap&page=about

[delete_bush]

113. Is it illegal to secede from the Union?

I've not a clue but I think it's one of those topics in which one can argue either side with a certain amount of conviction.

If they had a successful secession they could establish their own currency and put Reagan on as many coins and bills and stamps and buildings etc ad nauseum they want.

Could even rename the place Reaganopia.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

118. I'd say "Fine...secede", but

I like South Carolina. And what would happen to the African American population there? Would they be shipped out? Or perhaps they'd be offered 40 acres and a mule to till the soil for good Julep-drinking Christians...

These wackos are so holier-than-thou, they should be deported to the Holy Land. Traitors.

[goforit]

119. Yes.....And take the phoney God Damn President with Y'all!!

[tlcandie]

122. Send them to Israel and send the Palestinians here, please!

nt

[leesa]

123. Poor South Carolina! To become known as NitWit Central.

[Hekate]

127. There's some South Pacific atolls that will be vacated soon...

...Thanks to global warming, they are sinking. However, God might be willing to -- hmm -- part the seas for His faithful. Don't you think?

:evilgrin:

Hekate

[AlFrankenFan]

128. I read about this a few weeks ago

It's interesting...at least they know their history, but honestly, they'll never pull it off. One, not everyone in South Carolina is going to want it to succeed (I know liberals there). Two, 12,000 people ain't gonna be able to do poop.

[crossroads]

129. OMG! I have a cousin there who has to be warned... to evacuate...

before it's too late... The sheeple are coming! Mass stupidity in a stampeed... Jeeeeesss...
:scared:
I think it's great, keeps them away from me and mine...
:eyes:

[crossroads]

132. Wooooaah... shades of Jim Jones!

Kool aid anyone?
:eyes:

[NYYFan]

140. I was thinking the exact same thing

Great minds . . . .

:hi:

[Justice]

134. In a word, no

you don't get to take a state and make it your own.

[LynneSin]

137. Not to offended DUers from SC - but give the neo-cons the state

Seriously, give them that state or if not South Carolina, another state. Give them something and then get them all out of the rest of the country.

Think about it: If we gave them South Carolina they could -

Put Reagan on all of their currency
Build their own Mt Rushmore with Reagan, Falwell, Robertson and Ollie North
Pass all their laws and have all their judges
Dumb down their students by teaching them creationism only and teaching them such key phrases as "Just Say No" or "No Sex until Marriage"

The only rule is for one month Neo-cons would have to pay for anyone who wants to leave the state. THey have to buy those wanting to leave this new country fair market value for their home, money for relocating and some seed money so these folks can get setup in a new area with a job or something. Believe me, they can take over the jobs from the neo-con Christians leaving the rest of the country to move to South Carolina.

After it's done - the borders are sealed and the US constitution & Bill of Rights are renewed. USPA is rescinded and we go back to Church & State are seperate.

Sounds like a plan!!

[CRK7376]

139. 143 years ago

SC led the way with seccession over the slavery issue and other things that became our Civil War....Here we go again!

[AspenRose]

141. Ask them if they intend to keep interracial marriage legal

or if they think anti-miscegenation laws are "God's will," like Bob Jones did (before they had a 'change of heart').

[livetohike]

143. I love S. Carolina and will return to retire there

Fortunately, I have a group of liberal friends down in Charleston. We will build our commune/retirement community in the swamps and be safe from all those fundies who think the swamp is an evil place :-)

[funkybutt]

144. Why is this such a hot topic?

who cares?

[blindpig]

147. I care

I've lived in the Upstate of SC for going on 23 years and find it depressing that so many would make me a refugee. While we've got way more than our fair share of christofacsist dingbats a lot of the regular folks are in fact redeemable by the left if only they were given a reason. The so-called wise have told us forever that in the end pocketbook issues decide elections. If the economic portion of the Kucinich program were adopted by the Democratic Party perhaps this state and others in the South wouldn't be a given for the enemy.
But the Dems offer little for the working class economically while the repubs offer all sorts of candy to whip up the committed social conservatives. No, we should not abandon our progressive social agenda for a few votes but these people must have a positive reason to vote Democratic and New Deal style economics is the ticket.
So when these christofacsist take over this place(too small to be a nation, too large to be an insane asylum) remember the lost opportunities.

[kayell]

153. All the SC DUers care, and many others who like this beautiful state

If you don't care, there is no reason that you need to read or post in this thread.

[funkybutt]

159. i think my post was misunderstood

in Louisiana, we have our fair share of bible thumpers pushing jesus down peoples throats. Sorry if i offended anyone

[hyphenate]

145. They're fucking nuts.

They also don't know American history very well, either. Let them get their "Christian" nation together. Where the fuck do they think the funding is going to come from for schools, jobs, sewer systems and anything and everything else? As soon as they could become their own separate nation, I suggest anything and everything in that "Christian" nation owned by the Federal government be immediately removed. See if they like it when they have to fend for themselves. Schmucks.

[Jabbery]

148. Republicans - always on the wrong side of history

Secession? Again? Of course not. But it reveals how desperate and pathetic the right wing has become. They are always thinking with their heads in the failed past, but now we see just how racist and hateful they have become. They are actually considering trying to re-live the civil war. No matter. Just like the "culture war" they declared on our country, they will lose - again.

[tom_paine]

149. North Carolina is talking about it, too.

We are unquestionably heading towards Civil War II.

Our only hope of averting it is the Restoration of the Old American Republic System of Checks and Balances, which is currently dying out.

And I don't know that even a Kerry Victory in November can accomplish that.

[Endangered Specie]

154. I doubt North Carolina will do that...

liveing in NC as I do... I can tell you things are turning left here (albiet its still R territory, its not as solid). Keep in mind NC was the last to seceed in Civil War I, and that was only because every other state (GA, SC, TN, and VA) surrounding it had seceeded too.

[tom_paine]

156. I didn't say I thought it was going to happen

But that y'all are talking about it in the same way the South Carolinians are talking about it (maybe not as publicly)

[struggle4progress]

163. Who in NC is talking about secession?

A bunch of us yankees have moved here in the last few decades. And a fair number of the natives actually have progressive tendencies.

There are also Cons, of course, with a healthy sprinkling of wackos, but currently the fact that the wingnuts haven't won an outright victory has produced a most delightful squabbling amongst the Cons: nothing galls an NC wingnut nearly as much as somebody that ALMOST agrees with him.

I think if we play this civil war thing right in NC, the wingnuts and moderate Republicans might set about shooting each other down.

[Endangered Specie]

155. ANd I will personally help build the concrete wall to box off that state.

I live way to close to SC, if they are going to seceede, this time they aint taking NC with them!

[struggle4progress]

164. I, suh, say let Brother Jebbie be the fust to secede.

Aftah leisurely inspecting the federal military response to Florida's withdrawal, we cud discuss secession further if we war still so inclined.

[kayell]

157. These folks have some serious delusions about SC

After spending a bit of time surfing their boards, it seems that they really believe that they can move in 12,000 people and take over the politics of a state of 4 million+ people. They seem to picture all of SC as an unpopulated hinterland. Many of them also seem to imagine that SC is populated by a homogenous, white, rightwing population of hard-shell baptists, all eagar to host an invasion of crazed theocrats.

Sadly, some of these delusions are shared by some DUers.

I hope they and others will spend a little time finding out what the real story is - simply, that while conservative as an average (and that is an average of the whole state, some counties are quite liberal), the population of this state is as diverse as any other, and individuals are all over the board politically, culturally, racially, sexually etc. Here is a good site for SC facts and figures - http://www.sciway.net/

A certain number of DUers seem as ready as the ChristianExodus people to scoff at the problems of relocating millions of people who may not wish to live in a theocracy. People who have history, relatives, lives, homes, trees they planted when the kids were born, grandma's grave, that little place in Charleston they went on their honeymoon....

Would you be so willing to hand over your home to these crazies so that we could all be rid of them??? No? hmmmm....

[frankieT]

161. (A)hh, I like the concept of seceding -eom-

[Catt03]

166. Key West seceded....sort of

Their secession was a lot more fun!

The Conch Republic
http://www.conchrepublic.com/