US covertly tried and failed to 'plant' WMDs!

[crossroads]

"According to a stunning report posted by a retired Navy Lt Commander and 28-year veteran of the Defense Department (DoD), the Bush administration’s assurance about finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was based on a Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) plan to “plant” WMDs inside the country. Nelda Rogers, the Pentagon whistleblower, claims the plan failed when the secret mission was mistakenly taken out by “friendly fire”, the Environmentalists Against War report.

Nelda Rogers is a 28-year veteran debriefer for the DoD. She has become so concerned for her safety that she decided to tell the story about this latest CIA-military fiasco in Iraq. According to Al Martin Raw.com, “Ms Rogers is number two in the chain of command within this DoD special intelligence office. This is a ten-person debriefing unit within the central debriefing office for the Department of Defense.”"

>snip<


http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9


Neocons became thrilled to think the war was proven justified recently during that find of a suspect WMD shell! I wonder how this news will grab them?

:eyes:

[lumpy]

1. There has been rumors about this

particular event. Believable.

[Th1onein]

52. I wonder if this has anything to do with firing the head of Agriculture?

Very strange....anybody have a link to that thread?

[NMDemDist2]

2. I think I'd need two sources for this story

got anybody else that is breaking it?

[crossroads]

12. Not yet, was hoping for some further info from DUers.

:kick:

[napi21]

13. Here's another link.

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0521-05.htm

[salin]

20. seems to be a different story

[crossroads]

23. The link was on outsourcing, not WMDs.

I'll check further on moveon.org.

:eyes:

[1monster]

50. Try this one

http://www.mehrnews.com/wfNewsDetails_en.aspx?NewsID=70071&t=Political

[Ready4Change]

3. I first saw this from the "Iran Times" I think?

That was a month or more ago, I think.

The link above is from the Pakistani Daily Times site.

Anyone know the credibility of these sources, or if this story has been published by more credible ones?

[Just Me]

4. Navy Lt Commander Nelda Rogers,...

,...this is the first I've heard of this newest "whistle-blower".

<"retired" at 28 years of age - early retirement I assume>

[arwalden]

9. 28 Years ON THE JOB... Not 28 Years Old

I'm pretty sure that what they meant.

[Just Me]

14. Whoops *LOL*,...my brain is flooded,...geez,...

,...do we have any more info on this "person"?

<actually, nevermind>

[jimshoes]

5. If true....

Some would call that a sign from above or karmic justice at least.

[physioex]

6. Wasn't that impressive...

Thousands of Iraqi lives, over 700 US soldiers, billions of dollars and A SHELL using WWI technology was found.........

[Frodo]

7. Wouldn't that be something? But it looks false on it's face.

The Pakistani news gets it first? How?

She told THEM because, what? She was fearful for her life?

But they just gave away who she was.

[Sinistrous]

8. AMPOL did a piece on this and other similar stories:

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20040420Baker.html

Not the last word.

[Just Me]

16. Uh, double-take. Did Chalabi F-up and tell? *LOL* n/t

[crossroads]

32. Thanks, looks right to me.

I figured since the tide seems to have turned in favor of the truth (for a change)... who knew? I can't find anything more reliable than the above link in post #1 and it now looks like the story *is* old according to this link! Was fooled by the current date in lead post. I wouldn't put it past Bushco tho. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
:eyes:

[sally343434]

10. Al Martin in not reliable

Al Martin is not a reliable news source. His hates Bush, but he's spent the last three years making up the most bizarre things out of whole cloth.

This doesn't mean the story is false. But unless you can verify it through another independent source, you have to discount it.

[keithyboy]

11. I remember a DU poster who posted a theory about these planted WMDs

I believe it was theorized that the special US and or Israeli ops who had been operating inside Iraq since early 2001 had planted the WMDs but that Saddams people had found them and hid them. That's why the US was so insistant that WMDs would be found but they were also firghtened about who might have stolen them. At any rate everything seems plausible with these renegades in charge. I fear we are a rogue nation and the citizens have been able to come to grips with this fact.

[napi21]

15. It's also on Common Dreams if that means anything to you.

http://www.commondreams.org/news2004/0521-05.htm

[salin]

24. that story is about RNC outsourcing not about alleged planting of WMDs

a scan on google finds only various sources carrying the same single story - and non of them from regular news sources. This doesn't appear to have any backing.

[napi21]

27. Sorry, here's the link for the WMD's on Common Dreams

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0313-08.htm

[salin]

30. thanks - this does appear to be a different story

forgive my skepticism - I ran google on the other story and kept finding references - all back to the single al martin story.

on edit - 'different story' - from the current posting - but related.. not different ala about the rnc outsourcing - this is very relevant to this thread. realized that when I wrote this post's title it might be misconstrued.

[crossroads]

35. Thanks napi21, this is the most current link so far...

except for the first post, but it has no mention of the whistleblower tho.
Compelling to think of, as Bush would be in more hot water than he is now if this came to light.
:kick:

[salin]

36. it is a completely different story

and the only one that doesn't just repeat the Al Martin story. The only place that the 28 year veteran shows up in stories are those that are recycling Al Martin's story - they are not new items about the story. Either it was completely wrong - or the story just never went anywhere. (not to say that it never will - but until we see her name refered to in something that is NOT just recycling the same story - I wouldn't put too much stock in it.)

[crossroads]

28. Hmmm this was about outsourcing too.

Thanks tho...
:eyes:

[Just Me]

39. What whigs me out,...it reports the crap being planted in Basra!!!

Basra,...where the soul of Sadr's uprising is being melted down!!!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but,...that is also essentially Sistani's heart of "spirituality" as well.

[salin]

42. help me go back in time

that story was written in early/mid march. When did the "showdown" begin with Sadr?

Just wrote a note at the bottom of the thread to crossover - there are a few things that get me thinking about this item. Especially giving the Chalabi story that just broke - and either Juan Cole or Josh Marshall's pickig apart of those stories (am blending things I read earlier today) about the connections to Iran via Chalabi (the individual) among other things.

[Just Me]

17. Fascinating. I could buy that theory. Definitely. n/t

[salin]

18. this "story" seems to have been floating out there

on more ... out there websites for awhile - but it all seems to eminate from the same, single story (based on the content I scanned on Google). I wouldn't touch this story - unless the woman cited can be verified as DOD (claims she has a 28 yr service) and/or is carried in some reputable news source with information that is not just the same recycling (eg all the same info, nothing new) of this story.

[ze_dscherman]

19. This story is so old

I read it some time last year, and IIRC, it was debunked quickly. Not a reliable source, this Nelda Rogers.

On edit: Hey, I never tought I would ever take sides with freepers, but I found some freeper debunking of her weird tale while googling I really agree with ... :crazy:

However, just read this about the amazing things this lady has become public about:

"The Department of Defense whistleblower continues with her information about the NASA Columbia Disaster Cover-up and more details on the Chandra Levy Murder Cover-up story.

Nelda Rogers also headed up the special debriefing unit, which debriefed NASA engineers and other personnel after the Columbia shuttle blew apart. They have tape recordings and other evidence, which indicates that NASA was well aware of the existing problems with the spacecraft – and yet they chose not to install sensors which would have detected the problem early and allowed countermeasures to be taken. It was evidently all not done for reasons of cost."

http://www.radioleft.com/article.php?op=Print&sid=1178

[salin]

37. so this woman who is a 28 year dod vet

who is part of a ten person intelligence team - seems to have a forest gump ability to be involved in the middle of all of these important events... right.

[keithyboy]

21. These are not 'sources' but more links to this story

http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=Nelda+Rogers&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3Da3ec4e159c7b8144%26clickedItemRank%3D2%26userQuery%3DNelda%2BRogers%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.newsfollowup.com%252Firaq2.htm%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSCPIndex2%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsfollowup.com%2Firaq2.htm

http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=Nelda+Rogers&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3Da3ec4e159c7b8144%26clickedItemRank%3D2%26userQuery%3DNelda%2BRogers%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.newsfollowup.com%252Firaq2.htm%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSCPIndex2%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsfollowup.com%2Firaq2.htm

http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=Nelda+Rogers&page=3&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D68defd345e8536a6%26clickedItemRank%3D24%26userQuery%3DNelda%2BRogers%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.fpp.co.uk%252Fonline%252F03%252F06%252FWhistleblower.html%26invocationType%3Dnext%26fromPage%3DNSCPNextPrev%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fpp.co.uk%2Fonline%2F03%2F06%2FWhistleblower.html

[soup]

22. Found this -

for what it's worth :shrug: article mentions Nelda Rogers

American Free Press August 25, 2003


CIA Accused Of Bank Heist

Shortly before U.S. forces began streaming across the Iraqi border, commencing Persian Gulf War II, the CIA and the Department of Defense, with a little help from Israel and some Europeans, pulled off a massive bank heist in Iraq to the tune of several billion dollars.


By Gordon Thomas

The CIA and the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA) are accused by International Currency Review, the London-based journal, of mounting a joint ultra-secret operation to electronically remove an estimated $10 billion out of the Iraqi Central Bank hours before the start of Persian Gulf War II. The whereabouts of the money is not known.
>snip<

The Review states in its 25-page report that it had questioned a key member of the operation. She is identified as "Nelda Rogers, a debriefing officer with the Defense Intelligence Agency."

"She was in Germany last year when American intelligence officials were devising covert operations ahead of the long-planned conflict. She has revealed that a covert operation targeting the Central Bank of Iraq took place prior to and during the war. The operatives involved were military ‘black operations' personnel brought into service for this purpose," said Story.

The Review claims that Rogers and a team of ten DIA operatives were financed through the U.S. Department of Agriculture. They were supported by CIA agents in Iraq.

>more< scroll about 3/4 down on page:
http://www.denverspiritualcommunity.org/AmericanFreePress/AFPNewsAug03.htm

[Chicago Democrat]

25. Scoop!

Well done... Smokin!

Take a hit and hold it...

Wicked this shits so bad, Im freaken out!

[salin]

26. Don't let it freak you out yet

this is one of those 'rumour' stories that starts one place and reappears all citing the same single source, none with verification. It appears to have been floating around on the internet for a couple of months. But no verifiable information - and no legitimate source carrying the story. I would wait for infor to comeout elsewhere to get freaked out.

[Just Me]

29. It is kinda' weird coming from our "friend", Pakistan.

But, like you said,...these stories kinda' "float" and get picked up here and there.

Still, do we have any info concerning this retired Lt. Commander?

[salin]

31. couldn't find anything except websites all citing the same exact story

which makes me think of... I write a compelling fictionalized news item... someone posts it... others pick it up and refer literally to what I have written - but with no new facts - suddenly it is circulating and recirculating and recirculating and some take the fact that it is cited multiple places as meaning there is some validity to it. I view this very carefully.

More interesting - earlier in the thread napi21 posts a story that was carried on common dreams - similar theme but different story. Now that catches my attention. This item, however, comes from the Iranian Service from this past March - does that give it more or less credibility? Especially given the whole Chalabi breaking story? really hard to distinguish.

Personally, I place it in the watch to see if anything else develops (in more general media) - and keep this easily accessible if something does develop along these lines.

[Just Me]

33. Global research posted a story last year,...

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/IRA308A.html

Also, TBR News (for all that's worth)

http://tbrnews.org/Archives/a510.htm

And, The People's Voice (???)

http://thepeoplesvoice.org/


We will just have to watch and see.

[salin]

34. the first two are all about the same (single) Al Martin story

so I count that as recycling of a single (not verified) source.

am looking through the last source to find the related story.

Go back to Napi21's Common Dreams story - is different - but gives clues to look for if the WMDs are found if the source is legit. The story suggests that the stockpiles would be similar but not the same as those the US supplied to Iraq back in the Iran Iraq war, and that they had come from Eastern European sources. I am still highly skeptical. But always make a point of at least mentally archiving the stories to cross reference later with other stories that emerge.

on edit - the last source, again, just loops back to the Al Martin story.

[crossroads]

38. Thanks for the tips...

I really appreciate the help. The story looked so good for Kerry and bad for Bush, I just got excited and ran with it. I will fine tune my research in the future.
Thanks again salin,
:hi:

[salin]

40. we learn as we go through the lbn cycles

:D

I know I have certainly become caught up with a few stories that I later realized were pretty shakey... Some stories are very enticing... that's when (if I have time) I try to see if I can't cross reference the item, or at least key individuals highlighted in the story.

Didn't mean to be a bit harsh in my skepticism earlier. Just think with stories as potentially as explosive as this - we need to be very careful - so we don't discredit ourselves (ala the boy who cries wolf) with items that are really on the fringe. There are so many real news items that are documented that "sound" fringe to those who don't follow the news - that losing credibility (if one tries to share news items with others in order to open their eyes) makes it harder to get through with the real stories.

Have to say I have learned so much from other DUers who have access to different news sources, and bring different perspectives, that I find DU - and especially the LBN forum to be one of the most informative, dynamic means for sorting through important information/news. If you hadn't brought the story here - folks wouldn't discuss it, which is important (even if something is debunked or held skeptically.)

Besides - I do think the side story brought by napi21 might have something very interesting to it. Read it again... now think timing... think potential connections through Chalabi's folks (the story is sourced to a member of the Iraqi Governing Council)... now think the story source (tehran) and their potential interests with either pushing disinformation OR with blowing open a real story if it is true... Given the timing of what we have just learned about Chalabi - I don't know what to make of it, but I think the Common Dreams item might be something to keep track of.

[Just Me]

43. Yes. DU is awesome due to both its diverse and dynamic qualities.

I especially admire the passions and focus and principles posters bring to this fabulous space. This is the ideal place to actually share ideas and thoughts and creativity,....a network of innovation: a picture of democracy at work!!!

You're pretty damned cool, too, Salin!!! I enjoy bouncing thoughts off of you!!!!

[salin]

44. Likewise Just Me

I only regret that I don't have the time I once did to participate on a more regular basis. Mostly these days I do a "data dump" in the morning (try to get through key lbn and editorials) and in the evening with some posting at either end. *sigh* Used to have a more flexible schedule (meaning working/writing around the clock - interspersed with breaks for DU time!)

okay if you would indulge me - just a little exercise. Not saying the Common Dreams piece is... solid... but that it is interesting. Here is the item from Josh Marshall's blog that stuck with me as I read this piece thinking... hmmmmmm... I wonder what this might mean. Could easily be disinformation or accessed information meant to harm the US efforts - case could be made either way. Read this and let me know what you think.

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2004_05_16.php#002992

on edit - likewise in the title - means I enjoy bouncing the ideas, and reactions to news items with you :D (jumped ahead to fast and didnt finish the thought.)

[Just Me]

46. *LOL* Well,...it will take me more than this evening to digest all that.

That freakin' Woosley. Sometimes, I wonder if Woosley isn't the worst perpetrator of treasonous endeavors.

I have intuitive and instinctive stuff that I throw out but never entirely trust. Once I integrate enough info to at least quantify and justify what I sense (from my obsession with knowledge without order, so to speak),...then, I'll bounce something more meaty atcha'.

Still, I gotta' tell ya',...I believe that (this is intuitive from chaotic information obsessiveness *smile*) Chalabi was nothing other than a propaganda tool and, perhaps a tool to play others' banjos. I absolutely believe that the neocons KNEW there were NO WMDs and may have been willing to plant them in the well-known baathist area of Basra. But, that is instinct based on a buncha' of information I have not collected in an organized manner.

Just throwin' thoughts atcha'.

[sofa king]

49. Here's another thought

This administration has been so dishonest--so routinely dishonest--about everything it says and does that the truth about virtually anything is uncertain.

Many of us here see it, know it.

Perhaps, too, our enemies see it and know it well enough to count on it. Thus they can plant stories and count on them to get traction, because suddenly they have an air of plausibility. We all laughed at Baghdad Bob back when the war was on the front burner, but today, after everything we've been lied to about? At this point, anyone can spin a yarn with minimal verisimilitude and someone will buy it.

If you ever needed better proof of the loss of our credibility, one needs only look at the disasters of the last two weeks--the government position on any stance is now posited to be something to be debunked and dissected by careful newsreaders. If America were my enemy, I would be taking every possible advantage of that vulnerability.

That's why the enemy is going to do everything in their power to get these people reelected this term.

[salin]

54. not sure about the last item

certainly discrediting them right now is easy and makes for a big target. Makes sense to me.

Not sure they want these guys still in power - because even if they are incompetent - they are fatally so and very capricious. Mixed bag as to whether or not it is in their advantage for this crew to continue to be in charge.

[salin]

53. I hear you - and yes - Woolsey jumped out at me as well

as he still sits safely on the pentagon's advisory: Defense Policy Board.

We agree on much of this - certainly there has been mutual tooling going on between the neocons and chalabi. Heck - sound like they had access to all they needed to know per possible (huge) corruption and close up ties to the Iranians - including that Chalabi's boy was likely an Iranian intel agent and letting him control their investigate to purge the baathists group. I think many neocons sorta/kinda knew there were no WMDs - and knew Chalabi was feeding them bunk - but I also think they are so blinded with their ideology that some began to believe their own lies on that front.

Until now I viewed Chalabi as having been used (knowingly) and attempting to use back - a rather happy parasitic relationship. Now as it falls apart - less clear who is doing the screwing to who. For the moment it almost appears that in the complete blind passion for going after Iraq the neocons blocked out all info that should send up warning flags and may have been played not by Chalabi.. but by... the Iranians. Are we watching the unraveling of intelligence games like the old coldwar spy novels - almost looks like it. Which is so unbelievable given our resources compared to theirs... but blind ideology and shutting out all other opinions/ideas creates such a self-righteous and superior atmosphere - and these folks have demonstrated such incompetence (from prewar/postwar planning on..) that almost anything is beginning to appear to be possible. But this is just my first day gut reaction to this newest dump of information. Very likely after I have time to process it more I will back away from that line and go back to one much closer to your assessment :D

[crossroads]

45. Profound thinking here at DU!

I have only been a member for a couple of short months and really enjoy the way things are run/presented in the forums! I put lots of stock in the stories presented here for they have proved to be very reliable/credible. I watch a number of the 'senior' posters here with admiration in hopes I can hone my posting research skills. Thanks again to salin and want to say I have also admired Just Me! Nice to meet the both of you who are proof DU has some wonderful people on board! :hi:

[Just Me]

48. Back atcha', "crossroads"!!!

:hi:

Thanks for contributing to the "adventure" *smile*!!!!

[salin]

55. it is sort of an adventure, isn't it?

and to you crossroads... *blush* thanks for the compliment - think that for oldtimers - the stories and analysis are a joint effort through which we all hone our skills - always is a collective effort :D :hi:

[Cronus Protagonist]

41. Proof of US involvement in the planting of WMDs (pic)

Elvis was involved....

http://bushspeaks.com/home.asp?did=129

[Media_Lies_Daily]

47. I doubt seriously if the CIA was involved in this operation, if such....

...an operation actually existed. The CIA has consistently advised the NeoCons that no evidence existed to prove that Iraq had WMDs. They advised Junior not to mention Iraqi WMDs in his State of the Union speech, and advised Powell not to mention WMDs in his UN speech for which he has recently admitted his regrets.

Based on the above, why would the CIA get involved in a program to plant WMDs in Iraq?

My guess is that the intelligence group involved in the operation was actually the OSP, claiming to be the CIA. If they had been successful, the NeoCons could trumpet the find, and if they failed, they had at least one witness that would claim that the CIA was involved.

How much does anyone want to bet that this story will fall flat, and that the CIA will drop yet another bombshell on the NeoCons?

[Just Me]

51. Do you ever wonder whether there is some weird split in the CIA?

Kinda' like a BFEE CIA versus an all-American CIA?

[salin]

56. all the time. think more are the latter

but some younger (and older but ideological) are the former.

[Moderator]

57. Not Latest Breaking News...Locking