(New) Video Seems to Show Beheading of American

[gp]

Video Seems to Show Beheading of American

CAIRO, Egypt - A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site appeared to show a group affiliated with al-Qaida beheading an American in Iraq (news - web sites), saying the death was revenge for the prisoner-abuse scandal.

The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit who identified himself as an American from Philadelphia.

After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and cutting off his head with a large knife. They then held the head out before the camera.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20040511/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_american_beheaded

[LittleApple81]

1. The whole of humanity is making me completely sick. n/t

[Solly Mack]

18. yes n/t

[keithyboy]

270. In GD, someone mentioned "orange jumpsuit" and "yellow walls"

Hmmmmmmmmm. In view of the experts saying that it didn't sound like Zwarkari because the accent was wrong...this plot is thickening.
One person asked, why would the "terrorists" do this now when the prisoner abuse revelations were working in their favor?

I mean, you have to think at least twice about this.

[Emboldened Chimp]

71. This is what we humans are capable of

It doesn't matter where you're from, what your upbringing is...you put a bunch of people into the insanity that is war, they will revert to being animals...american, iraqi, whatever...we're animals.

[DoNotRefill]

272. Yup....BTW...

what war were the people who beheaded Daniel Pearl involved in?

We're dealing with people who choose to act like animals.

[reprobate]

331. No. This is what the bushistas are capable of.

None dare call it treason? Well I call it TREASON.

[drfemoe]

94. Still Photo from video - NON violent

&paper=news&file=international1320EDT0606.DTL&directory=/news/archive/2004/05/11&type=news

OR = http://tinyurl.com/2ob62

[Just Me]

122. BE sure to check out Tinoire's post below!!! eom

[drfemoe]

221. Better believe it ..

was posting on the fly as I was just running out the door.

Tinoire's our gem. We better keep her happy!! :+

[Just Me]

280. This is one thread that should be read from bottom to top,...

,...'cause there is a LOT of garbage from here to the "relevant" there. LOL!!

:bounce:

[slippy]

139. Video URL inside (discretion advised)

5 min zip file.

Can anyone translate?

http://drivehostnow.biz/iraq2vediow.zip

Warning this IS a snuff video. Depicts the things that happen when invited to "bring it on".

[Just Me]

143. Sorry, "slippy", I don't know you well enough to go there. n/t

[slippy]

158. point taken.....

......am new to the board. You are right of course. I don't have a history here on the DU (yet) As soon as I posted it I realised that it requires a leap of faith in the light of the worms doing the rounds. OK no offence taken. I will be a bit more circumspect in future. Am sure it will be repeated on other sites soon.

[Just Me]

165. I STRONGLY URGE YOU TO GO DOWN TO TINOIRE'S POSTS!!!

I don't usually scream,...but, sometimes,...screaming is most appropriate *smile*.

Welcome to DU, slippy :hi:

Hope you feel at home in this cyber-spot.

:bounce:

[slippy]

172. Am going already!

haha! Yes I reviewed those posts.

As an introduction, am an expat brit (old european style) Am just now working in manila (though shortly off to Korea.) I work with americans and have done for over 20 years.

The vast majority of expat "yanks" are hard working adaptable, well balanced guys. They are a world apart from what the stay at home brit or other imagines them to be (too much jspringer exported?)

I refer critics to here, rense and wrh for the true voice of america.

I just hope you give us another president this year.

I will try to give you a new Prime Minister if am home next year ha ha!

[Just Me]

192. My motto: "trust is earned, not an entitlement " in these turbulent times

"Trust" has been betrayed too many times for anyone to actually "grant" it,...before it is earned.

I do hope you stay on board,...and never, ever refer to yourself as "old europe".

All people who embrace and spread basic human principles is something new,...and fabulous to this world.

Okay?

:thumbsup:

[Tinoire]

190. Thanks for posting it anyway. Welcome to DU n/t

[drfemoe]

220. I'm planning to skip this one ..

but welcome to DU!! :hi:

[Sweatynipples]

222. Video at bottom to

Also at the bottom, no zip file straight .wma to windows player

[Just Me]

237. Be sure to note the "time indicator",...it says a LOT about the video.

[0007]

264. It has been taken down - won't open

PM me if you have it.

[Just Me]

289. It is alive and well,...

http://www.soulsurvivors.net/Public/iraq2vediom.wmv

I just checked it out. Be sure to note the "time" edits, the "body language" and the "environment" (in addition to a poster's observations of the foot wear *LOL*).

For all the world to analyze. HAH.

[crossroads]

318. Link is gone...

:shrug:

[reprobate]

332. Those are military men. Look at their stances.

The one on the left is actually standing in the "at ease" position.

You can take the man out of the military, but you can't take the military out of the man.

[orleans23]

292. WHY WAS U.S. ARMY "DETAINING" BERG???

According to msnbc Nick Berg was jailed by Iraqui officials at a checkpoint in Mosul on March 24.

" "He was arrested and held without due process," his father, Michael Berg, told the Daily Local News of West Chester recently. "By the time he got out the whole area was inflamed with violence."

The FBI on March 31 interviewed Berg's parents in West Chester. Jerri Williams, a spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, told the Philadelphia Inquirer the agency had been "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. "

Why was the U.S. military holding him? Why did his parents have to file a lawsuit? And who did the military release him to?

Also on msnbc, regarding the website containing the video: "one of the executioners read a statement: "For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused." "

According the the Red Cross aproximately 70 - 90 percent of those Iraqis being held are innocent of any crime and have been arrested by mistake. Couldn't we have released some of these people in exchange for this American citizen?

In this land that pushed "family values" so damn much--why aren't people and families valued????

[Just Me]

296. You did a fine job of pointing out the incongruities!!! Welcome to DU!!!

:hi:
:yourock:

I hope feel at home here where truth matters!!!!

[mhr]

2. Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right - Guess Bush Never Learned That Lesson

eom

[demoman123]

113. But three do. :) n/t

[wellst0nev0ter]

189. Remember THIS Story?

<snip>
In June 2002, U.S. officials say intelligence had revealed that Zarqawi and members of al-Qaida had set up a weapons lab at Kirma, in northern Iraq, producing deadly ricin and cyanide.

The Pentagon quickly drafted plans to attack the camp with cruise missiles and airstrikes and sent it to the White House, where, according to U.S. government sources, the plan was debated to death in the National Security Council.


“Here we had targets, we had opportunities, we had a country willing to support casualties, or risk casualties after 9/11 and we still didn’t do it,” said Michael O’Hanlon, military analyst with the Brookings Institution.

Four months later, intelligence showed Zarqawi was planning to use ricin in terrorist attacks in Europe.

The Pentagon drew up a second strike plan, and the White House again killed it. By then the administration had set its course for war with Iraq.

<snip>

Military officials insist their case for attacking Zarqawi’s operation was airtight, but the administration feared destroying the terrorist camp in Iraq could undercut its case for war against Saddam.

:grr: LINK :grr:


That's right, because Bush refused to take out the man who orchestrated this atrocity right before the war, the family of Mr. Berg can blame his untimely death on Bush's obdurately pursued policy failures

[Just Me]

198. Oh, that rabbit hole,...we are actually beginning to track it, huh. Wow!!

Talk about full circle!!!

So,....geez,...quite the "partnership" going on,...for what?

Power. "Ruling" the world.

hmpfff

[dave29]

3. Ughhhh

someone tell me it's 2000 and Gore is about to take office

[soleft]

4. Thank you Donald Rumsfeld

There, George, I thanked Rummy for something. Happy?

[Demonaut]

36. Thank you Donald Rumsfeld and George W Bush, how many more????

[rocktivity]

92. I don't suppose it occured to anyone

What effect prisoner abuse might have on captured U.S. soliders. Well, now we know. And let's not forget that about a dozen prisoners have died in U.S. custody.

:headbang:
rocknation

[jlo102jlo]

128. It should have occurred to everyone...

that when Dan Rather first aired those photos there would be terrible consequences.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Just Me]

131. Consequences as in our government beheading an American citizen,

so as to create counter-propaganda that will distract from our fall from grace and continue to inflame the American people towards the PNAC global domination plan?

Is that the terrible consequences you are speaking of?

BAH!!!

Read further down the post.

:argh:

[jlo102jlo]

150. No, other consequences from our enemies.

The video bore the title "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi shown slaughtering an American." It was unclear whether al-Zarqawi – a lieutenant of Osama bin Laden – was shown in the video, or was claiming responsibility for ordering the execution.

[Just Me]

154. READ TINOIRE'S POSTS BELOW!!!! BEEEEE "INFORMED"!!! n/t

[jlo102jlo]

164. I am...

informed. Very well. I read everything here before posting. I happen to have my own ideas, is that ok with you? And, you don't need to yell in all caps.

[Name removed]

170. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jlo102jlo]

178. Thanks...

for your kind response. No wonder I don't post very often.

Apparently it's not acceptable to have a differing view than everyone else here.

[Just Me]

202. Doncha' just LOVE DU!!!! *smile* n/t

[jlo102jlo]

232. Smile back atcha, LOL :-) n/t

[maddezmom]

155. yeah, blame it on the media not the perpetrators of the torture

:eyes: this is the take no responsibility administration

[jlo102jlo]

224. Blaming the Media

"One of the masked men read a statement urging Muslims to seek revenge after pictures were published of Iraqi prisoners being abused by U.S. troops at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

"Nation of Islam, is there any excuse left to sit idly by? And how can free Muslims sleep soundly as they see Islam being slaughtered, honor bleeding, photographs of shame and reports of Satanic degradation of the people of Islam, men and women, in Abu Ghraib prison?" the statement said.

The masked men then pushed the 26-year-old American to the floor and
shouted "God is greatest" above his screams as one of them sawed his head off with a large knife then held it aloft for the camera."

----------------------------------------
(Yahoo news item - Top Stories - Reuters)

Qaeda Leader Beheads U.S. Civilian in Iraq -Web Site

[Just Me]

225. As they stood like "cowboys" reading from a script, covering their bodies,

for "fear" of being identified? If they are who they say they are,...why the hell would they cover their whole body, masking their identification?

Huh?!!!!!!

I can't even identify their eye color.

Who are these concealed identities?

[bagnana]

259. jesus. those pictures were everywhere, esp. in middle east

we shouldn't see them? we should be so afraid of retaliation that we keep our citizens in the dark about what the hell is going on? people need to see those and be shocked as hell.

[jlo102jlo]

271. Well, seeing them did it, didn't it?

A be-heading; vs. the photos.

Thanks to Dan Rather. Not to say the photos weren't cruel, one bit. But, no one's head was cut off.

This was RETALLIATON! They never would have seen them except for the media hype! By the US media!

I blame the media. This was being handled by internal military and should have stayed there.

Pardon me for having a dissenting view from mainstream democraticunderground.

[BattyDem]

281. What Iraqi television station ...

is Dan Rather broadcasting on? :eyes:

Read the reports from the Red Cross or Amnesty International. The Abu Ghraib abuse has been going on for quite a while and the Iraqis knew ... even if the US public didn't. That's why the timing of the "retalliation" doesn't add up. The US public just became aware of the abuse and those photos, but the Iraqis knew this was going on all along. Why would they wait until now to retalliate?

[Just Me]

293. Cha-CHING!!!

[jlo102jlo]

297. Yes, it has been going on...

It just wasn't BROADCAST all over the place. CBS did that. Others followed.

The military was on it. It should have stayed privately I think for the military to deal with.

But no---CBS had to spread it all over the globe. And now we see what that brought----an American's head CUT off.

Retalliation, pure and simple. Due to media coverage. Begun by CBS and Dan Rather who didn't know better than to STFU!!!!!!!!

[jlo102jlo]

298. Red Cross didn't respond earlier.

Of course the Red Cross knew. Read some more. (independently)

I don't mean to swear, so I won't. Good grief. Read on your own; form your own opinion.

Education is a good thing.

[Just Me]

299. Don't worry about us,...we do PLENTY of reading and are FREE

to form our own opinions.

Don't you believe in our ability to both read and form our own educated opinions? If not,...why? Did someone lead you to believe that we are "incapable" of independent thought? If so,...who?

Tell me,...'cause,...I'm gonna go get that bastard/bitch!!!!

[BattyDem]

305. Do you notice how it's always the same old story?

Blame the messenger, ignore the message. :eyes:

The Repugs and the Freepers are more outraged by the fact that the torture was made public than they are by the torture itself! When we realized there were no WMDs, they all said, "So what? Saddam was an evil, ruthless dictator who tortured and killed people! He even had rape rooms!" But now that we're doing the same thing, they want us to just ignore it. What hypocrites! :mad:

[PaDUer]

313. July 29, 2003

If you want those articles about this, let me know because they state that the family contacted Cong Sherwood AND Rummy.
-edit-
Camp Bucca also.

[BattyDem]

337. Thanks, but I've seen them

It's pretty upsetting. It seems no one wanted to deal with this until they were forced to by the media. :(

Last week on MSNBC, I heard that the family of one of the soldiers accused of abuse had tried desperately to get the US's attention - the Pentagon, Congress, etc. The uncle of the soldier said they even contacted the members of the Senate Armed Services Committee and were either blown off or ignored completely, which I found very disturbing. It wasn't until they contacted David Hackworth that they got some attention. I can understand why the Bushies did nothing, but why did the Dems ignore it? :mad:

[PaDUer]

338. That's right..

They've got blood on their hands also...Another thing, those that were contacted have been denying knowing anything about it at all..they're all involved..but if it were their child involved, it would be a different story..We've got to hold them ALL accountable, every last one of them! I'm really surprised people haven't taken to the streets..

[truthseeker1]

339. One thing on the timing....

has anyone else considered that perhaps the hangings in Fallujah could have been in retaliation for what the Iraqis knew was going on in the prison?

[BattyDem]

341. That's a good point

Especially since it was "private contractors" aka mercenaries who were killed. If the Iraqis knew their people were being tortured in the prisons by the private contractors who were running them, that would explain not only the Fallujah hangings, but the huge increase in "insurgents" over the last several months.

[truthseeker1]

344. And also a good reason for the Coalition to shut down the newspaper

....couldn't allow the word to spread beyond Iraq of the prison abuse.

[yardwork]

218. Go. Away.

[jlo102jlo]

230. Thanks for the friendly welcome.

Why should I go away? Doesn't anyone care about this statement in the news just released? Maybe some don't care to think for yourselves, I guess. It seems pretty obvious to me what prompted this beheading - MEDIA exposure. The photos/soldiers/civilians were already under military investigation; and in my opinion, the media frenzy caused this beheading.

"One of the masked men read a statement urging Muslims to seek revenge after pictures were published of Iraqi prisoners being abused by U.S. troops at Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad.

"Nation of Islam, is there any excuse left to sit idly by? And how can free Muslims sleep soundly as they see Islam being slaughtered, honor bleeding, photographs of shame and reports of Satanic degradation of the people of Islam, men and women, in Abu Ghraib prison?" the statement said.

The masked men then pushed the 26-year-old American to the floor and
shouted "God is greatest" above his screams as one of them sawed his head off with a large knife then held it aloft for the camera."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=1&u=/nm/20040511/ts_nm/iraq_usa_beheading_dc

[Just Me]

234. Let us 1st determine WHO did this beheading. Doncha' think? *wink*

[jlo102jlo]

238. Sorry, I don't buy the synopsis laid out here.

That anyone other than who claimed to have done it, did it.

[Just Me]

239. Oh, okay. *wink*

[truthseeker1]

340. Do you always take things at face value?

Geez, man, you're naive!

[TankLV]

236. How about the fucking atrocities that "caused the beheading"!

"It seems pretty obvious to me what prompted this beheading - MEDIA exposure"

Are you as vile as that statement?

Really? The "media" are to blame? Not the fucking atrocities the US military committed?

You are truly dilusional.

You are sick.

[jlo102jlo]

242. Thanks to you too for your welcome.

Personally, I think BE-HEADING a person is a bit worse than the photos that were hyped all over, started by Dan Rather at CBS. If the photos would have stayed within the military investigation, this would not have happened. The military is still investigating.

But that's my opinion. (Sick/delusional? I don't think so.)

[NickB79]

282. A bit worse, huh?

You do realize that Donald Rumsfeld has alluded to much worse photos, including ones documenting RAPE and MURDER of Iraqi prisoners, no? One of the videos is supposed to include the ANAL RAPE of a 16-yr old BOY. You think those aren't as bad as videotaping a US citizen being killed?

[jlo102jlo]

244. Atrocities?

Don't you think a beheading is a real atrocity compared to the photos released?

And you call me vile.

[TankLV]

287. Yes - Atrocities - committed by bushco's military.

And you are indeed vile.

Making excuses for atrocities is vile.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

[Citizen Daryl]

245. Yeah, the media's responsible for all of this. *sigh*

The media did not torture and kill Iraqi prisoners. The media did not go to Abu Ghraib prison, knock on the doors, and ask, "Hey, you know what? It's sweeps week, and we really need something shocking. Would you mind torturing some detainees?"

Someone committed the abuse, and someone photographed it, and someone sent it out on the Internet. And none of those "somebodys" were the media.

I knew this line of reasoning was on the horizon. Believe you me, wait until you hear how the Flying Monkey Right starts blaming liberals and the anti-war movement for this. It's going to happen. You're going to see demonization on a scale you've never seen before. The dittoheads of the nation are going to look at you and see Osama bin Laden. And it's all going to be a concerted effort to shut up the opposition - both to the war and to this corrupt administration.

They've got nothing else to run on right now. Nothing except intimidation.

[jlo102jlo]

249. Yes, but...

"Someone committed the abuse, and someone photographed it, and someone sent it out on the Internet. And none of those "somebodys" were the media."


You're partially right. The abuse from the US prison guards was absolutely wrong. It was/is under investigation by the military. It was disgusting. However; a beheading caused by the non-stop media attention was the result of that, I really believe.

The media was wrong in my opinion, to keep playing it over and over.

From what I understand, no one actually has stepped up to the plate and said THEY supplied the photos to CBS, who first reported it.

I heard some rumor they first appeared on a porn site. Don't know if that's true. I guess that's what you mean by first appearance.

In reality, first appearance in mainstream media was by Dan Rather, CBS and the torch was lit.

[Magleetis]

251. In my mind

the torch was lit when the never elected George W. Bush invaded Iraq based on lies. The torch continues to burn. If you can't stand the heat.......

[jlo102jlo]

254. Who said...

I can't stand the heat? I'm just saying what I truly believe. Sorry it's not to your liking.

Just a differing opinion, is all.

[Magleetis]

260. I don't dislike you beliefs

You can believe whatever you want. I think that all of the atrocities we are experiencing are a result of an unjust war. If you invade a country based on lies these sort of things will happen. if you don't like what is happening it is not the fault of the media. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of our murderous government. We will not win this war and the world will not be safer because of this war. These kinds of events are bearing this out. We tried to warn them but they would not listen.

[Just Me]

255. Indeed, "someone" did make and distribute it. Who?!?! *wink*

Go to the bottom of the thread.

[TankLV]

290. No - we need to drum it into people like you's feeble minds - over and

over and over until you become as sick of THE ACT instead of THE EMBARRASSMENT or BAD PUBLICITY as we are.

That is why Eisenhower made all allied troops within his command tour the death camps - because he knew there'd be people like you who would try to hide them and try to minimze their impact to see just how vile the Germans were.

Same with rounding up all the surrounding villagers who "never knew such a thing was going on" RIGHT IN THEIR OWN FUCKING BACKYARDS - and made them bury the victums.

You're sure on your way to being a "good German"!

[jlo102jlo]

300. so you say,,,

Read around some more.

[yardwork]

308. Well, which is it?

According to your friend Rush, the pictures of Iraqi "criminals" being "humiliated" by American soldiers are "no big deal." Just frat boy stuff. Anyone can take a joke, right? It's not like anyone actually died or anything, right? Oh yeah, a couple dozen prisoners died, but they were ruthless criminals. Except that 90% of them weren't, according to the military's own reports. But still it's no big deal, according to Rush and most "reasonable" people.

So how come al Quaida is so mad about the pictures? I mean, if the beheading was caused by Dan Rather and the "media frenzy" that you cite, then why? Since they're "no big deal" and all?

Is it possible that the beheading, if real, could be caused by something other than those pictures of harmless frat-boy stunts? Like maybe, oh, the fact that we INVADED their country?

Just maybe?

[nonconformist]

266. It should have occurred to everyone

That when we invaded Iraq there would be terrible consequences.

[reprobate]

333. Why? Jr never had to face consequences for ANYTHING

[DoNotRefill]

273. And Daniel Pearl got his head chopped off...

well before the prisoner abuse scandal broke, didn't he?

[Roaming]

335. I don't agree that the two are related. Things like this were happening

WAY BEFORE the prisoner abuse scandal came to light--i.e., Daniel Pearl. They may have used this as their reason, but I honestly don't believe in my gut that had this prisoner abuse stuff not come out, we wouldn't still be seeing things like this happening.

[daleo]

5. Seems to?

Given the content of the article, that is an awfully equivocal headline. Is there a concern it is a fraud? I guess there will be plenty more on this. Horrible to contemplate if true, or even if untrue.

[Quahog]

34. No suggestion it's a fake

If you read the whole article, his family already knew that he died by beheading, they just didn't know the circumstances.

I agree, the headline calls into question what is shown in the video, but the video itself is conclusive.

[Just Me]

38. The guy was imprisoned. Did aQ walk into a US-controlled prison,...

,...and whack off this guy's head?

Look at the info in Tinoire's post.

The guy was still wearing a prison uniform.

Who the f*ck did this? WHO?!?!?!?!!!

:puke:

[The Stranger]

179. It is also undeniable that he is wearing one of the same kind of orange

"jump suits" that the U.S. issues to prisoners, including those in Guantanamo Bay.

[Just Me]

6. Oh. My. God.

Who wears orange jumpsuits?

I saw pictures of prisoners at Gitmo wearing orange jumpsuits.

[stopbush]

7. I guess someone said to "Bring It On" at some point.

This gruesome act serves as a perfect metaphor for what bush has done to our nation and the world.

[maddezmom]

8. bet it's the American found on the bridge....dear god this is awful

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/132/world/Body_found_on_Baghdad_overpass:.shtml

[Neecy]

10. I thought that, too

The body on the bridge was also identified as from Pennsylvania, and the story indicated there was 'trauma' to the body.

[Just Me]

12. Was the body on the bridge dressed in an orange jumpsuit?

That orange jumpsuit thing really jumps out at me for some reason.

Surely to God Almighty there are no contractors dressed in such a way as to attract attention.

[zbdent]

16. Remember a number of years back, an auto racer died of

"massive head injuries" - essentially "trauma".

The injury was so "massive" that the crew went down the track to pick up the racer's helmet - complete with head.

[yardwork]

310. Who identified the body found on the bridge?

Is there any independent confirmation that this man is actually dead?

Because some who have seen the video think it might be fake, which might mean that this man is not really dead. OR it could mean that he was killed at a different time in a different way.

I'm sorry that my questioning will upset some people who read this thread. My suggestion is to go read the Constitution.

[wicket]

11. It definitely appears to be the case

On the video he identified himself as being from Philly, and the body found was of a man from Pennsylvania.

This is horrible :(

[Supormom]

13. He travelled to Iraq looking for work?

"Berg, who was in Baghdad from late December to Feb. 1, returned to Iraq in March. He didn't find any work and planned again to return home on March 30, but his daily communications home stopped on March 24. He later told his parents he was jailed by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul."

He must have been very desperate!

[crossroads]

250. Likely he was a victim of *out-sourcing*!

:shrug: :kick:

[leftchick]

29. It Is Indeed him, Nick Berg from PA....

AP just put this up....

The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit -- similar to a prisoner's uniform -- who identified himself as Nick Berg, a U.S. contractor whose body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday.

"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael, my mother's name is Susan," the man said on the video. "I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in ... Philadelphia."

After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and putting a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" -- "God is great." They then held the head out before the camera.

Berg was a small-business owner from the Philadelphia suburbs, his family said Tuesday.

"For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we offered the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib and they refused," one of the men read from a statement.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/world/stories/051104dnintbeheading.1b0205fdb.html

[Just Me]

33. So weird that he appears to be dressed in a prison-like jumpsuit.

I wonder if a picture will be posted.

This story is just,...

,...oh, nevermind,...I'm probably overthinking this.

It's a disgusting, revolting act. :puke:

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. Think SYMBOL

Orange Prison like uniforms do exist in the M.E

This was a symbol, Berg stood for the Guantamo Detainees... they just told us, this is what they are doing at Guantamo, since they are doing it at Abu Ghraib... the message will be missed by you, but not the target audience, aka the Arab Street

[Just Me]

47. Check out Tinoire's posts below. The guy was in OUR prison!!! n/t

[Tinoire]

195. He was released from the prison before this happened

(according to the media). Hard to establish because who knows where they got that information (from the prison guards?). But he had definitely been illegally detained as you say.

===

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military in Iraq.

The next day, April 6, Nick Berg was released. He told his parents he had been riding in a taxi on March 24 when he was arrested by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul.

<snip>

They spoke on March 24, and Nick Berg told his parents he was coming home on March 30. Then the communications stopped, and he wasn't on the plane on March 30.

============

So what's this bit about not getting on the plane on March 30th? And telling his family he'd have to exit Iraq via "Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait". After April 6 (or 9), no one in his family hears from him again.

=====================

What a sloppy, calloused administration!

[Just Me]

201. BAH!!! *throwing up*,....

:cry:

[drfemoe]

91. yeah .. and why was he in US military custody for awhile?

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/132/nation/Pennsylvania_family_of_man_who:.shtml

On March 31, the FBI interviewed Berg's parents in West Chester. Jerri Williams, a spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, told The Philadelphia Inquirer the agency had been ''asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq.''

On April 5, the Bergs filed a lawsuit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. He told his parents he hadn't been mistreated.

Then they didn't hear from him after April 9.

[rumguy]

9. that is fuckin' disgusting

let's not forget the have some real fuckin' sickos on their side...

the Bushies and the jihadists - two sides of the same coin - they need eachother to survive...

[phillybri]

17. Good point...these shitbags need Bush...

Just as Bush needs these shitbags in order to instill fear in this nation...

[NNN0LHI]

14. This is really horrible. Sentiments to the family

It doesn't look like Bush's apology for committing war crimes against the Iraqis did much good.

Don

[JohnOneillsMemory]

15. Y'know the spin: Revealing US atrocities endangers our troops...

...not the committing of the atrocities.

The spin will be 'the only thing worse than committing war crimes is being caught out and people knowing you are commiting war crimes.'

The saying 'out of sight, out of mind' is now being simplified to just 'Out of Our Minds.'

I'm applying for sanctuary in another species, one that's not endangering itself...

[Neecy]

19. that's exactly how they'll spin it

What they WON'T say is that our public can remain blissfully ignorant of atrocities, but given that they're taking place in Iraq against the population the Iraqi people will know about them regardless of whether they're publicized here.

Revenge killings will go on as long as we torture, rape, kill and abuse prisoners or civilians and media coverage or lack thereof won't have a bit of effect on that. Their spin will be an utterly empty argument.

[The Stranger]

27. THE IRAQIS ALREADY KNOW OF THE ATROCITIES.

That is why they bombed their own in the prison. Everybody in the world knows about it. IT IS THE U.S. PUBLIC THAT IS BEING LIED TO ABOUT THE EXTENT OF THE ATROCITIES.

[bobthedrummer]

43. Everyone should ask themselves what would they do if their mom

or daughter were shot in the face, for instance, protesting the shutdown of a newspaper.

What if your father or brother was forced to masturbate into someone's mouth?

What would you feel if you watched video's of your child being gang-raped?

What would you do if this was called part of "the process"?

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

[Just Me]

132. Yup, our government-generated propaganda is generating the SPIN! n/t

[0007]

32. I'm gonna join the ant family and change my name to Smith

...of course I'll keep an eye out for commies called red ants.

Sincerely,

ant smith

[UCLA02]

20. OMFG! Freeper blames Dan Rather!

and Taguba, Kennedy, Kerry, H. Clinton...

Fuckin' hell...

To: Heff
Dan Rather's victim.

10 posted on 05/11/2004 10:12:32 AM PDT by KellyAdmirer
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies >


http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1133415/posts

[kegler14]

41. Yes the Freepers are going crazy

blaming everybody except the ones who were actually responsible -- the soliders who did the abusing and the commanders who allowed it to happen. And what sicko takes those kinds of photos anyway?

And then one of the Freepers under the mistaken impression that Berg was an anti-war activist posted something like "At least there's one less Democrat." The moderator did remove it.

I guess being a Freeper means advocating personal responsibility except when it's inconvenient or gets in the way of slandering a liberal. And you're outraged only if you think the guy who was killed was a conservative.

[Mike Daniels]

80. Convenient excuse

But these guys were shooting and decapitating prisoners well before the prison scandal broke.

Shit like this plays into Bush's hands.

[Nancy Waterman]

129. I agree - this plays right into Bush's hands

The reaction will be to make people think "these people deserve the abuse, they are little better than animals." It will mimimize the outrage and get us back on the evil, dehumanized enemy theme. The abuse scandal was making them seem too human for Bush's purposes.

[dawn]

62. Typical. Makes me wonder if they are brain-damaged.

[daleo]

21. I think this story will have many levels, if true

To travel there, stay in Baghdad two months (not find work), then get captured by Iraqi officials at a checkpoint in Mosul, then killed in a gruesome way, wearing an orange jumpsuit - there are a lot of details to be filled in, still.

Some things that come to mind:
- unlucky person in the wrong place at the wrong time.
- mercenary in deep cover.
- intelligence in deep cover.
- black ops by CIA or other agency - a hapless character lured to his death to provide a gruesome counter-propaganda video.

I know some people will think it is the wrong time to speculate on these matters.

[Just Me]

23. Last I've seen an orange jumpsuit was that worn by Gitmo prisoners.

,...and your CIA et al black ops is first to jump on my list of possibilities,...only because of that orange jumpsuit in which I cannot imagine ANY contractor being suited.

[rednek_Liberal]

233. Is that all you care about is stupid that orange jumpsuit..

does it usually take 10 or so posts before you get some atention?

[Aussie_Hillbilly]

327. The same thoughts went through my mind.

According to the Freepers, the poor guy was an sponsor of Global Day of Action ie a peace activist. That would be cause for FBI questioning.

Perhaps the Powers That Be thought an "anti-American" peace activist would be an acceptable sacrifice for renewed public unity a la Operation Northwoods. The CIA produces only the most realistic black-ops - they are professionals.

Or perhaps it really was a handful of crazed terrorists looking for cheap publicity. Noone will ever know.

[cjbuchanan]

22. Sad and wrong

I am sorry to hear about this.

[DrWeird]

24. Let's see if we can take as well as we dish it out.

nt

[slippy]

151. Excuse me?

"lets see if we can take it as well as dish it out?"

WTF?

Am sorry, I never defended torture or executions from whatever crazy mutha that wants to do it. I'm anti war, war dehumanises you AND your enemy. Whether its the creeping insiduous type that starts with rumsfeld saying that "geneva conventions don't apply 'precisely' to al qaeda, right upto murdering for allah as shown in the video clip.

I reject both positionss and will continue to dish it out to anyone who manifestly rejects humanity. Its shown in a miriad of ways like brits shooting 8 year old girls, israelis murdering stone throwers, murderers decapitating civilians. And i dish it out just as much to islamist and christian and jewish fundementalist haters because I have no doubt that if these fanatical evangelist christian fundementalists were born in israel or iran or iraq or afghanistan, they would be the same murdering terroists that bomb kids on buses in israel. Its the breed that is common not the badge they wear.That is just the convenience.

This war is lost. It was lost before a soldier stepped foot in there. Iraq does not want burger king democracy. And whether you like it or not its their choice. Get over it bush, nobody likes a sore loser, get out, go home.

[Just Me]

265. Your post definitely earns a piece of my trust. n/t

[Aussie_Hillbilly]

326. Yes

And i dish it out just as much to islamist and christian and jewish fundementalist haters because I have no doubt that if these fanatical evangelist christian fundementalists were born in israel or iran or iraq or afghanistan, they would be the same murdering terroists that bomb kids on buses in israel. Its the breed that is common not the badge they wear. That is just the convenience.

We need more like you. Welcome to DU

[Purveyor]

25. AP providing name and more detail...was body found on bridge...

(05-11) 10:20 PDT CAIRO, Egypt (AP) --

A video posted Tuesday on an Islamic militant Web site showed a group affiliated with al-Qaida beheading an American civilian in Iraq, saying the death was revenge for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers.

The video showed five men wearing headscarves and black ski masks, standing over a bound man in an orange jumpsuit -- similar to a prisoner's uniform -- who identified himself as Nick Berg, a U.S. contractor whose body was found on a highway overpass in Baghdad on Saturday.

"My name is Nick Berg, my father's name is Michael, my mother's name is Susan," the man said on the video. "I have a brother and sister, David and Sarah. I live in ... Philadelphia."

After reading a statement, the men were seen pulling the man to his side and putting a large knife to his neck. A scream sounded as the men cut his head off, shouting "Allahu Akbar!" -- "God is great." They then held the head out before the camera.


<snip>

[maddezmom]

30. right now, I don't care why he was there...I pray for his family

this war is tearing me and our country and world apart...:cry:

[antonialee839]

205. Not his first time in a third world country

Berg had traveled several times to Third World countries to help spread technology, his family said. He had previously traveled to Kenya and Ghana, where they said he had purchased a $900 brick-making press for a poor village, the family said.

Berg's mother, Suzanne Berg, said her son was in Iraq to help rebuild communication antennas.

"He had this idea that he could help rebuild the infrastructure," she said.

http://www.pennlive.com/newsflash/pa/index.ssf?/base/news-16/108430077760820.xml

[daleo]

303. Maybe a nice guy in the wrong place at the wrong time

Maybe intelligence in deep cover.
Maybe someone's patsy.

Lots of ways to interpret this still. But the fact that he has traveled a lot to the third world certainly seems like a salient fact.

[Zerex71]

26. Just remember:

"I don't want to worry my beautiful mind over such things."

- The Witch of Kennebunkport

Maybe you should start worrying, you bitch. After all, look at the demon spawn you raised.

[jackstraw45]

28. Amen to that

Perhaps if they had shown the Chimp a little more affection as a child, he wouldn't have become the monster we have before us.

[Tansy_Gold]

Please don't refer to her as a witch

It's an insult to the many decent wiccans.

[Tinoire]

31. This story stinks to high heaven. This is pure Rumsfeld BULL

Sat, May. 08, 2004
West Chester contractor missing in Iraq

Associated Press

<snip>

He stayed until Feb. 1, making contact with a company that indicated there would likely be work for him later. But he returned on March 14 and there was no work, so he began traveling. He usually called home once a day and e-mailed several times; Michael Berg is his business manager, and they needed to stay in touch.

<snip>

When FBI agents arrived at the Berg's West Chester home on March 31, they were relieved to know their son was alive, but in jail. The agents questioned them about various details that only they and their son would know about.

Jerri Williams, spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, said the agency was "asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg's purpose in Iraq."

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military in Iraq.

<snip>

Nick Berg said he would come home through Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait.

<snip>

The Bergs have hounded the State Department, the FBI and the International Committee of the Red Cross, seeking information. Michael Berg said the State Department sent an official to Nick Berg's hotel, where an employee told the official they had not heard of him.

<snip>

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/politics/8621773.htm

Nick Berg was "travelling" on his own, not working.

The FBI demanding to know his "purpose" in Iraq

They filed a suit in federal court that the US military was illegaly holding him

Nick Berg, in order to get back home to the states, had to get to Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait to catch a flight? No airport in Iraq?

The "agents questioned them about various details that only they and their son would know about". Why? So these beheaded men that we can't identify could lure him? Film it? Provoke more outrage so the RW can excuse & snuff out the torture taking place at Abu-Ghaibr?


Sorry. Bull-shit alert. My theory right now. with the little information we have? Nick Berg knew something (Photos? What?), was in hiding, and was lured out to be executed by people on our side who are going to cynically exploit this beheading.

[Just Me]

35. OMFG!!! So, he WAS in jail!!! Now, I ask, WHO actually committed

this atrocity?

This is freaky as all hell.

The man was still in his prison uniform!!!!

Did aQ walk into one of our prisons and murder this guy?

YIKES!!!!

[maddezmom]

more masked men in the news today

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x547592

[Tinoire]

40. Nick Berg was INTERROGATED by the FBI for 2 WEEKS

and was under NO LEGAL obligation to keep his mouth shut about anything because he hadn't signed a privacy waiver.

Just found this:

26-year-old Nick Berg didn't sign a privacy waiver when he went over there.

And even though the State Department is using its one person in Iraq to help track him down, they can't tell anyone, including Berg's parents what's going on.

And that frustrates his mother Susanne.

"I'm just really scared, because we haven't heard from him for a month, and truthfully, nobody can even tell us whether he's dead or alive."

The local congressional delegation hasn't gotten any answers, either.

Nick last checked in April 9th, saying he was trying to find a safe way home following two weeks of FBI interrogation, after an arrest in Mosul.

<snip>

http://kyw.com/Local%20News/local_story_128173423.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. OMFG

I have.... heard stories like this before... it has begun... OMFG

and to give the gov'ment the benefit of the doubt, the orange suit does exist in the area... this could also be AQ sending US a message that will be missed by most Muricans, but not in the Arab Street.

Just playing both sides... but from what you posted, the former is far more likely and the latter may just be Psy Ops,since they know how this will play in the Arab Street.

[Just Me]

50. I agree with your theory. At the very least, dark ops at work here.

And,...I really feel seriously nauseated that American citizen's lives are now being used to do counter-propaganda.

[JNelson6563]

87. Excellent info as usual

Tinoire, you have so long been a favorite of mine. Thanks for once again bringing so much info to the discussion.

You go girl!! :toast:

Julie

[Dover]

114. My immediate reaction to seeing the video stills was.....

that the purported "al Qaeda" men standing behind Nick Berg just looked, stood and had body builds like Westerners. And why is everything so out of focus? Was that done by the media or was the original so out of focus?

At any rate, thanks for your research. I agree....this stinks.

[Just Me]

144. Where is that video? I would appreciate a safe linky.

[Just Me]

156. PLEASE, DOVER,...A SAFE LINK. n/t

[Dover]

161. Not sure what you're asking for.... I'm referring to the still photos

that were in the articles posted on this thread. What are you asking for?

[Just Me]

173. Well, you said "My immediate reaction to seeing the video",...

,...and, naturally I took that post literally.

[Dover]

175. No, I said my immediate reaction to seeing the video STILLS.

not sure where the original video is posted. Says it was on some Arab web site.

[Just Me]

187. Sorry. My "bad". I am breathing, now,...*sigh*. n/t

[Egnever]

343. video can be found here

http://www.ogrish.com/index2.htm

[malachi]

125. Related Berg story in Sunday 5/8 Phila. Inquirer

Parents agonize over their son missing in Iraq.
Parents against war, junior supported the chimp and his gang of criminals.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/local/8617523.htm?1c

[Chicago Democrat]

185. TINOIRE our best DU journalist!

I agree! You are the best and I love you like a sister!

[LiberalFighter]

235. Who arrested him in Mosul IRAQ?

Would it be only pro-Bush that would have arrest powers in Iraq?

[crossroads]

262. Great research...

Thanks! :yourock:

[Aussie_Hillbilly]

328. That is truly frightening.

Thankyou for posting, Tinoire.

When it comes to research, you are one of the best! :toast:

[TNOE]

39. You are da bomb

Tinoire - man, your skills are amazing, your grasp of the underlying matters as well as your organization. You never cease to amaze me. This is definitely weird.

[Just Me]

44. I agree. Tinoire is brilliant!!! n/t

[The Stranger]

100. Yeah, but

is that a picture of her in the avatar slot?

If so, then :loveya:

[drfemoe]

111. That's Rachael Corrie - Peace Activist

in the avatar.

[Minstrel Boy]

54. absolutely!

Still haven't picked my jaw up off the floor. Tinoire, thank you for making the connections.

[Tinoire]

61. I have such a chill up my spine right now

The only thing running through my mind are the lyrics from Paris' song "What Would You Do?"

See you could witness the illuminati bodycount
Don’t be surprised these is devils that I’m talkin’ bout
You think a couple thousand lives mean shit to killers?
Nigga I swear to God we the ones - ain’t no villans

You can listen to the song here. http://www.guerrillafunk.com/paris/sonic_jihad/

PLEASE do. And please, if you like it, buy the album.

Peace...


What Would You Do?

I see a message from the government, like every day
I watch it, and listen, and call ‘em all suckas
They warnin’ me about Osama or whatever
Picture me buyin’ this scam I said never

You in tune to a Hard Truth Soldier spittin’
I stay committed gives a fuck to die or lose commission
It’s all a part of fightin’ devil state mind control
And all about the battle for your body mind and soul

And now I’m hopin’ you don’t close ya mind - so they shape ya
Don’t forget they made us slaves, gave us AIDS and raped us
Another Bush season mean another war for profit
All in secret so the public never think to stop it
The illuminati triple 6 all connected
Stolen votes they control the race and take elections
It’s the Skull and Bones Freemason kill committee
See the Dragon gettin’ shittier in every city

What would you do if you
knew all of the things we know
Would you stand up for truth
Or would you turn away too?

And then what if you saw
All of the things that’s wrong
Would you stand tall and strong?
Or would you turn and walk away...

Now ask yourself who’s the one with the most to gain (Bush)
‘Fore 911 motherfuckas couldn’t stand his name (Bush)
Now even niggas waivin’ flags like they lost they mind
Everybody got opinions but don’t know the time

‘Cause America’s been took - it’s plain to see
The oldest trick in the book is MAKE an enemy
Of phony evil so the government can do it’s dirt
And take away ya freedom lock and load, beat and search

Ain’t nothin’ changed but more colored people locked in prison
These pigs still beat us but it seem we forgettin’
But I remember ‘fore Septmember how these devils do it
Fuck Guliani ask Diallo how he doin’

We in the streets holla “jail to the thief” - followv Fuck wavin’ flags bring these dragons to they knees
Oil blood money make these killers ride cold
Suspicious suicides people dyin’ never told

It’s all a part of playin’ God so ya think we need ‘em
While Bin Ashcroft take away ya rights to freedom
Bear witness to the sickness of these dictators
Hope you understand the time brother cause it’s major

What would you do if you
knew all of the things we know
Would you stand up for truth
Or would you turn away too?

And then what if you saw
All of the things that’s wrong
Would you stand tall and strong?
Or would you turn and walk away...

So now you askin why my records always come the same
Keep it real, ain’t no fillers, motherfuck a blingin’
Mine eyes seen the gory of the coming of the beast
So every story every word I’m sayin’ “Fuck Peace”

See you could witness the illuminati bodycount
Don’t be surprised these is devils that I’m talkin’ bout
You think a couple thousand lives mean shit to killers?
Nigga I swear to God we the ones - ain’t no villans

Or any other word they think to demonize a country
Ain’t no terror threat unless approval ratings slumpin’
So I’ma say it for the record we the ones that planned it
Ain’t no other country took a part or had they hand in

Just a way to keep ya scary so you think you need ‘em
Praisin’ Bush while that killer take away ya freedom
How many of us got discovered but ignore the symptoms?
Niggas talkin’ loud but ain’t nobody sayin’ shit’

And with the 4th Amendment gone eyes are on the 1st
That’s why I’m spittin’ cyanide each and every verse
I see the Carlyle group and Harris Bank Accounts
I see ‘em plead the 5th each and every session now

And while Reichstag burns see the public buy itv I see the profilin’ see the media’s compliance
War is good for business see the vicious make a savior
Hope you understand the time brother cause it’s major

What would you do if you
knew all of the things we know
Would you stand up for truth
Or would you turn away too?

And then what if you saw
All of the things that’s wrong
Would you stand tall and strong?
Or would you turn and walk away...


http://www.guerrillafunk.com/paris/sonic_jihad/

[Minstrel Boy]

68. I think this is so important

it deserves it's own thread, so I created one in GD with all credit to you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x1577807

[Tinoire]

74. OMG- Thanks... I just created one too called "Call to Action"

Thank you. This information needs to get out there.

[Zhade]

208. GREAT song! Have you heard Immortal Technique?

http://www.viperrecords.com/imtech/bio.shtml

He's another great one. Here are the lyrics to "Point of No Return", the song that turned me onto his stuff (heard him on Divine Forces Radio on KPFK 90.7 here in Santa Monica):

"The Point of No Return"

Yeah... It's that real this time around
Immortal Technique... Revolutionary Volume 2
It's on now motherfucker...
Lock and load!

This is the point of no return I can never go back
Life without parole upstate shackled and trapped
Living in the hole, lookin' at the world through a crack
But fuck that, I'd rather shoot it out and get clapped
I've gone too far, there ain't no coming back for me
Auschwitz gas chamber full of Zyklon-B
Just like the Spanish exterminating Tainos
Raping the black and Indian women, creating Latinos
Motherfuckers made me out of self righteous hatred
And now you got yourself a virus, stuck in the Matrix
A suicide bomber, strapped and ready to blow
Lethal injection, strapped down ready to go
Don't you understand they'll never let me live out in peace
Concrete jungle, guerrilla war out in the streets
Nat Turner with the sickle pitch fork and machete
The end of the world, motherfucker you not ready
This is the point of no return and nobody can stop it
Malcolm Little when he knelt before Elijah Muhammad
The comet that killed the dinosaurs, changing the earth
They love to criticize they always say I change for the worse
Like prescription pills when you misusin' them nigga
The Templar Knights when they took Jerusalem nigga
And figured out what was buried under Solomon's temple
Al-Aqsa the name is not coincidental
I know too much the government is trying to murder me
No coming back like cutting your wrists open vertically
How could the serpent be purposely put in charge of the country
Genetic-engineered sickness spread amongst me
My people are so hungry that they attack without reason
Like a fuckin' dog ripping off the hand that feeds him
Immortal Technique is treason to the Patriot Act
So come and get me motherfucker cause I'm not coming back

This is the point from which I can never return
And if I back down now then forever I burn
This is the point from which I can never retreat
Cause If I turn back now there can never be peace
This is the point from which I will die or succeed
Living the struggle, I know I'm alive when I bleed
From now on it can never be the same as before
Cause the place that I'm from doesn't exist anymore

This is the point of no return nigga you better believe this
Mary Magdalene giving birth to the children of Jesus
The evolution of the world, bloody and dramatic
Human beings killing monkeys to conquer the planet
The kingdoms of Africa and Mesopotamia
Machine-gun your body with depleted uranium
This is the age of microchips and titanium
The dark side of the moon and contact with aliens
I started out like Australians, criminal minded
Broke into hell, tore it down, and built a city behind it
South Paw, murderous, methodology nigga
Remember that I'm just a man don't follow me nigga
Cause once you pass the point you can never go home
You've got to face the possibility of dying alone
So tell me motherfucker, how could you die for the throne
When you don't even got the fuckin' heart to die for your own
It rains acid, one day the earth'll cry from a stone
And you'll be lookin' at the world livin' inside of a dome
Computerized humanity living inside of a clone
This is the place where the unknown is living and real
Wormwood, the Planet X and the Seventh Seal
Universal truth is not measured in mass appeal
This is the last time that I kneel and pray to the sky
Cause almost everything that I was always ever told was a lie

This is the point from which I can never return
And if I back down now then forever I burn
This is the point from which I can never retreat
Cause If I turn back now there can never be peace
This is the point from which I will die or succeed
Living the struggle, I know I'm alive when I bleed
From now on it can never be the same as before
Cause the place that I'm from doesn't exist anymore

(Oh yeah - he freestyles all his stuff. Amazing guy. "Peruvian Cocaine" is another favorite.)

[Tinoire]

309. Not yet but thank you!

Loved the lyrics but am too tired tonight. Will LISTEN to it in the morning.

Peace

:hug:

[bacchant]

42. I can't say how likely that is

but, I can say it couldn't happen at a better time for the administration. Coming right on the tail of that jackass Inhofe's screed on how the detainees deserved what they got. This heinous murder plays right into that unfortunate position.

[stickdog]

51. Or he was simply a small businessman trying to horn in on Halliburton's

action.

[Tinoire]

57. Family was against Iraq! Free Republic HATE thread about them

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts

HERE IS THE ENEMY -- they have posted their names
A.N.S.W.E.R. | 3-7-04 | dfu

Posted on 03/07/2004 7:02:01 PM PST by doug from upland

Here you are, FReepers. Here is the enemy. Working in conjunction with A.N.S.W.E.R., they have given us their names.

How about this one --- Jameel Rashid, U.S. Coast Guard, Portsmouth, VA

Well, sailor. I guess it is time for me to call your commanding officer and see what he thinks about this.
====

MARCH 20, 2004


GLOBAL DAY OF ACTION
on the FIRST ANNIVERSARY of the U.S. BOMBING and INVASION of IRAQ


Bring the troops home now!


End colonial occupation from Iraq to Palestine and everywhere!


Money for jobs, education, healthcare and housing - Not war!
Stop the attacks on civil rights and civil liberties!
Madison Square Park (Madison Ave. & 23rd St.) in New York City, Dolores Park in San Francisco, Hollywood and Vine in Los Angeles, Michigan & Pearson in Chicago, and in cities across the U.S.


<snip of all the names they posted>

Michael S. Berg, Teacher, Prometheus Methods Tower Service, Inc.,
West Chester, PA

<snip>

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1092851/posts



CONGRATULATIONS FREEPERS! YOU JUST GOT AN ANOTHER AMERICAN KILLED

[Just Me]

60. G-damnit,...and info about this video is now on mainstream media.

Our cheap-ass, worthless media at work,...failing to do even basic investigation,...or even recognizing that the guy is in a freakin' prison suit (probably exactly like all other US government issued).

I am so hopping angry that our own people are being used to generate counter-propaganda!

:argh:

[lostnfound]

197. 'Prometheus'...hmmm, wonder if he was setting up independent radio..

That would be enough to kill him for, wouldn't it?
Is that too absurd?

[bobthedrummer]

66. Berg allegedly went to Iraq on his own to "examine radio towers" but SAIC

has at least 7 DoD contracts for broadcast media in Iraq which would include radio towers, right?

While we're on the subject of broadcast media in Iraq FWIW, when Rumsfeld made his "Message to the People of Iraq" speech on 4-30-03 it was broadcast from a Commando Solo II aircraft.
http://www.dod.gov/news/Apr2003/n04302003_200304302.html

Commando Solo missions are part of aerial mind control, which have been used to influence foreign elections and behavior.
http://www.raven1.net/commsolo.htm

NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW.

[Stephanie]

314. Or a TEMP. I keep thinking he's like a temp

He's over in Iraq looking for a freelance gig. Remember how the OSP staff was all temps? The neo-cons have privatized the war and the contractors have tasks to subcontract out.

[Terran]

56. It seems just as likely (more so, actually) that he was taken hostage

and ultimately killed because of the torture revelations. I admit it's possible that some faction on our side would do this to an American, but it just seems less likely than what it seems to be. There is plenty of reason for such reprisal on the part of Iraqis right now.

[Just Me]

63. Explain why he was still attired in prison garb.

What,...the US releases the guy in a bright, orange prison uniform?

Give me a break!!!

[rumguy]

72. Why would they kill him in US prison garb?

If they wanted to make it look like jihadis...

That to me makes no sense...

[Just Me]

79. If you answer my question first, then I'll take a stab at yours.

I'll take a stab anyway.

Answer: Reckless, sloppy, murderous, evil-doers.

Now, you answer me why the US would send this guy out in prison garb.

What, were they trying to draw attention to him ON PURPOSE?!?!?!

BAH BULLSHIT!!!!

Standard operating procedure?!?!?!?!

:puke:

[rumguy]

84. I would say we don't know if that is Coalition prison garb...

everyone here is jumping to conclusions...

yes I'll admit that there are questions that need to be asked, but it troubles me to see everyone jump to the IMMEDIATE conclusion that the US did it..

and they aren't that sloppy...

[Just Me]

99. You still haven't answered my question.

[rumguy]

101. How do you know they sent him out in a prison uniform?

The kidnappers could have put it on him...for any number of reasons...

[Just Me]

105. How do you know he was released from prison at all? n/t

[Just Me]

145. And, boy o', I'll bet "they" are on fire fixing records as we speak.

Whaddya' wanna bet?

:bounce:

[The Stranger]

183. Actually, the ONLY people seen wearing those orange "jump suits" are

U.S. prisoners. This is undeniable from the video. Perhaps there are questions about where he was when he was killed and by whom, but it cannot be denied that he was wearing U.S.-style prison clothes.

[TX-RAT]

85. First gulf war POWs in orange prison garb.

Downed apache pilots in orange
Jessica lynch in orange.

[Terran]

76. Yes, that part is troubling.

I suppose the Iraqis *might* have put him in such a uniform. We don't know for sure whether the unifrom he's wearing in the video is actually a Coalition uniform. Certainly, I do doubt that if he was released by the US forces and then captured by Iraqis even 24 hours later that he would have still been wearing those clothes. However, with things in such chaos, I would not count on the US authorities giving him back his old clothes or providing any new ones. It IS possible that's all he had and could obtain.

I'm not discounting the possibility of murder by US parties here, as I already said. I just don't see it as a conclusive case. And hey, I'm a firm LIHOPer, okay?

[Just Me]

86. Remember, they identified themselves as aQ,...NOT Iraqis. n/t

[stickdog]

64. Who benefits?

Did you ever ask yourself, how is it that it's always the most innocent (WTC, Oklahoma City, poor independent contractor) who get it whenever terrorists strike?

[rumguy]

73. just because someone benefits does not mean they did it...

further, it is arguable that this does not benefit the Bushies at all, in fact it shows clearly how their mismanagment led to tragedy...

[The Stranger]

186. Of course evidence of motive is evidence of a crime.

Bush benefits if it is not revealed that he was kept in prison by the U.S. for weeks without due process -- even if he was later killed by Iraqis or, as they are saying, Al Queda.

[Just Me]

276. Now, now,...examining evidence of motive is "scary",...*LOL*,...

Excellent, well-reasoned point. Anyone who blows off the "who benefits" question,...doesn't really want to reveal the truth.

[Terran]

77. The Iraqis, if they did it, didn't do it for benefit.

It would have been pure revenge, and little else--unless they thought it would scare more foreigners out of the country, which it might well do.

[Just Me]

103. Since that al Zarqawi is taking personal credit, why the mask?

It is being reported that one of the head aQ guys is alleging he did the act himself.

So, why cover himself head to foot?

Now, does THAT make any sense?

[Terran]

142. Another point

Who knows? I see your point.

[Dhalgren]

69. But he had been held by the F.B.I. in a US military

prison! He was found in a standard US prison jumpsuit. How did the Al-Qaeda guys get hold of him? Was he released from prison and picked up by "terra-ists" before he could even change clothes?

I think Tinoire is a goddess - out and out! She has really pulled this thing together and these are questions that have to be answered. We are way through the looking glass and gone here, folks. We can no longer take anything at face value. We are living under evil and whatever happens we cannot lose sight of that fact.

[rumguy]

75. if they wanted to make it look like tersts did it

why would they keep him in the jumpsuit?

[Dhalgren]

78. They have heard of symbolism, too.

[rumguy]

82. I'm saying if the FBI/CIA did it, as some allege

wouldn't they go that little extra yard to make it look more authentic by taking him out of his coalition prison garb?

we don't even know what that orange thing is on him...

to many people on DU are to quick to jump on the consiracy bandwagon...

[Just Me]

112. Yup, it's all just one hugely convenient for BFEE coincidence.

BAH!!!

Apparently, the FBI/CIA did go the extra mile by sticking with the "symbolism" these aQ people allegedly shoot for,...yes?

[Just Me]

106. Excellent point, Dhalgren. A poster earlier jumped to the "symbolism"

conclusion. So, if anything the CIA/FBI would certainly try to be consistent in "doing as a terrorist would do".

[stickdog]

147. Bad Republican screenwriters strike again!

Once again Bush gets the awful news about the murderous "freedom haters" while speaking at a grammar school.

Once again the loose ends point to MIHOP.

[Just Me]

152. I am listening to the propaganda puke, right now,...

,...and am feeling angrier by the moment.

I no longer doubt all forms of MIHOP. Not after this thread.

The "evil-doers" are in our midst.

[Terran]

83. Okay, do we KNOW that?

Has it been reported that the body found was wearing a "standard" US prison jumpsuit?

And it occurs to me that I haven't seen any pictures of Iraqi prisoners wearing such jumpsuits. I know they use them at Gitmo, but are we *assuming* they are used in Iraq? Or maybe they're reserved for more favored guests, which he presumably was, somewhat, not being an Iraqi?

I agree, these questions do need answering. I just think many of you are making a judgment based on leaps of faith rather than the evidence presented so far.

[Just Me]

107. My first reaction: I saw those orange jumpsuits on prisoners at Gitmo.n/t

[lostnfound]

199. I don't think people are 'making judgments'..

they are having a nagging, sick-to-the-stomach feeling about it..hoping it's not what they fear it could be..sharing information and guesswork..knowing that trust or faith in media/government is no longer an option.

[truthseeker1]

342. I think the standard issue prison suit for Iraqi prisoners

is the "birthday suit"

[yardwork]

219. The people who killed them identified themselves as al Quaida

not Iraqis.

[maggrwaggr]

59. Wow!! Great work, Tinoire! n/t

[Tatiana]

93. OMG. OH. MY. GOD. What the hell have they done in our name?

Tinoire, let me simply say thanks. I don't always reply, but your research and reporting on this has been outstanding.

[northzax]

98. one little point: there are no functional civilian airports in Iraq

everyone who is not US military flies into and out of Jordan or Kuwait City and convoys into hell. I have a friend who just came back from a trip with Reuters (she's a stringer) and they flew in and out of Amman.

[Longhorn79]

268. Lured out to be executed?

I don't think so. This is the same type of human filth that killed Daniel Pearle. We don't feed people to the wolves like your conspiracy theory implies.

[Macadian]

269. I know this won't be popular, but you guys are freakin' nuts.

My heart goes out to Berg's family.

This entire scenario sickens me.

But you really have to be paranoid to believe our military/CIA orchestrated this beheading.

I've read posts claiming the attackers footwear, physical size and hidden faces 'proves' they were 'westerners'. I've read that the orange jump suit 'proves' they were our guys. I've read that the film is glitchy, that the time stamp doesn't seem right. That we should 'check the accents' to see if its true Arabic. That 'actors' were used for Bin Laden. That the video comes from Afghanistan 'proving' they are fake.

All this proves is that some people on here desperately WANT to believe that it is our guys doing this so they can hate our government even more.

Well I have plenty of reasons to hate our current administration. I don't need to fabricate reasons.

Lets at least admit to some facts.
Fact: Iraqi's come in all sizes.
Fact: Foreign fighters HAVE been seen and killed in Iraq.
Fact: They NEVER show their faces in these videos. Why should this one be any different.
Fact: CIA may be corrupt, but I'm confident they wouldn't overlook something obvious like the video time stamp.
Fact: Per his family, Berg was working on his own in Iraq to help rebuild their communication systems.
Fact: Getting out of Iraq via Kuwait, Jordan or Turkey is what MOST people do. Especially those that do not have connections with the government.

Question: Why do you think it is bizarre that they would have orange jump suits but not think it bizarre that they have access to all manner of weapons.
Question: Do you also think that Daniel Pearl's beheading was 'staged'?
Question: Do you really think the Arab media would not expose an obvious fraud video? Maybe you think the Arabs are in on it also?

Sorry if I sound bitchy, but I'm just pissed at the entire war. We shouldn't be there and I want our boys home.

But this conspiracy theory bull$h!t just makes us look stupid.

IMHO

[Just Me]

278. Some "conspiracies" are NON-fiction. I do understand your,...shock,...

,...and your auto-need to reject what is proving to be a nightmare.

The truth is,...this kind of horror,...has been happening for a very long time. It is merely rearing its ugly head for us all to finally see.

Waking up,...initially really sucks. Especially if your dream was of the "nice" variety.

I'm sorry that this disturbs you.

[daleo]

307. In fact he wasn't working there

He may have been looking for a job, or searching out a contract. But it is an odd thing to do, just head to the most dangerous place on earth on speculation, and drift around looking for a job (even in December, Iraq wasn't exactly safe).
Can just anyone get into Iraq? If so, how do you get into the country? Who stamps your passport?
Once there, how do you look for a job? Check out the want ads? Look at the bulletin board down at coalition headquarters?
How do you phone your contacts, when the phones don't work? (that is why you are there).
Do you grab a bus, or hail a taxi?
While in Baghdad, do you stay in the Green zone? Or do you just go stay at the local Holiday Inn?
Do you carry cash or use your Visa? How much money would this all cost? Plenty, I am thinking.
Do you carry a weapon?
Did he speak any other language than English?

Later on, he was held in jail by the U.S./Iraqi Governing Council authorities. Do you wonder what he might have seen or heard there?

Also, there are U.S. soldiers in custody. If someone wanted to get revenge for the prison tortures, wouldn't it have made more sense to murder a soldier?

This thing just doesn't add up.

[yardwork]

312. I don't see any posts here that say anything is "proven"

Instead, I see some interesting questions being raised. I'm not afraid of looking or sounding stupid for asking questions. Especially not these days.

[lumpy]

302. This whole event is bewildering.

The Gitmo orange suit, the unnamed web site. Why was Mr. Berg extensively examined by the feds. Where was Nick Berg in the intervening time when he ws released from the feds and the subsequent finding of his mutilated body. Why was it necessary for Berg to travel through Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait to find his way home. The stories, lies, apologists and coverups coming out of Iraq has made me a suspicious and untrusting person. So much tragedy connected with this one country. I hope Nick Berg's family can survive this tragedy, my heart aches.

[Ziggy_0253]

336. Seems like a bit of a conspiracy theory to me....

But then again with all the other bad news from Iraq, it could be plausible. You'll note the 9-11 Commission and the Dick and Chimpy testimony got pushed off the front pages pretty quick with the release of the prison photos.

Regardless, the right wing nuts are using the beheading as an excuse to claim whatever abuses we've perpetrated are justified.

[bitchkitty]

346. Pure bull is right -

I'm curious, though:

He stayed until Feb. 1, making contact with a company that indicated there would likely be work for him later. But he returned on March 14...

Where was he between February 1 and March 14? Had he come back to the U.S. or did he stay in the Middle East? I've looked (admittedly not hard) and haven't found the answer to that.

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[ghola]

45. This is Nazi Propaganda

Oh yeah, now that Abu Graib prison photos are coming out the damn Nazis bring out a video of an american being killed. If this doesn't say Propaganda then I don't know what is.

And how do they expect the compassionate muslims to act when they so humiliate their brothers? Thank you George Bush, for enraging these compassionate human beings and turning them into animals. But its alright, Islam doesn't follow Geneva Convention because its not a country so they don't have to answer for any of these actions.

[Just Me]

70. This nazi propaganda appears to have been produced by FBI/CIA. n/t

[rumguy]

81. the point is - Bush threw the baby out with the bathwater

long ago...

you reap what you sow...poor planning, arrogance, have led us straight into the pits of hell...

[Just Me]

146. Bullshit. The point is that OUR government may have KILLED an American,..

,...in order to create counter-propaganda!!!!

How f*cked up is that?

:argh:

[stickdog]

48. This is what happens every time when you try to do business in Iraq

around Halliburton.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4953015/

Berg’s mother, Suzanne Berg, said her son was in Iraq as an independent businessman to help rebuild communication antennas. He had been missing since April 9, she said.

“He had this idea that he could help rebuild the infrastructure,” she said.

The FBI on March 31 interviewed Berg’s parents in West Chester. Jerri Williams, a spokeswoman for the Philadelphia FBI office, told The Philadelphia Inquirer the agency had been “asked to interview the parents regarding Mr. Berg’s purpose in Iraq.”

On April 5, the Bergs filed suit in federal court in Philadelphia, contending that their son was being held illegally by the U.S. military. The next day Berg was released. The Bergs last heard from their son April 9, when he said he would come home by way of Jordan, Turkey or Kuwait. But by then, hostilities in Iraq had escalated.

[gp]

52. BBC has a still from the video on their website

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3705409.stm

[Just Me]

55. Very poor quality still and very well covered terror suspects. n/t

[Neecy]

65. hmmmm

From the feet I can see, two of the killers appear to be wearing combat boots, while the other two seem to be wearing what appear to be brand-new Converse hightops. Might just be a distortion in the still, but it seems odd to think you can pick those up at any ol' Baghdad market...

[Snellius]

89. What the name of the website? When was this posted?

Is it recent? Who broke the story? Within seconds both Drudge and FOX were spinning it like mad.

[maddezmom]

108. CNNI was showing portions of the video right after AP's story

of beheading came out.

[TX-RAT]

53. Question

Wasn't the body's on the overpass before the prison abuse story.

[maddezmom]

58. link on MSNBC- ties it all up

~snip~
The video bore the title “Abu Musab al-Zarqawi shown slaughtering an American.” It was unclear whether al-Zarqawi — a lieutenant of Osama bin Laden — was shown in the video, or was claiming responsibility for ordering the execution.

The Web site on which the video was posted is known as a clearing house for al-Qaida and Islamic extremist groups’ statements and tapes. An audiotape purportedly from bin Laden — which the CIA said was probably authentic — appeared on the same Web site last week.

Western officials say al-Zarqawi, whose real name is Ahmad Fadhil al-Khalayleh, is a lieutenant of bin Laden. The United States has offered $10 million for information leading to the capture or killing of al-Zarqawi, saying he is trying to build a network of foreign militants in Iraq to work for al-Qaida.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4953015

of course it's Al Qaeda's fault...this story stinks. Doesn't the CIA normally take a little time to confirm the authenticity of tapes? :eye:

[gasperc]

67. $10 million? why not something tangilble like fresh water

and electricity for your village?
no wonder this thing is becoming such a cluster fuck
the $10million is just for the conservative base, look we're offering a $10 million reward but those savage Iraqis don't know how to value money, they are bad very bad and obviously stupid.

[drfemoe]

95. No .it seems they are able to instantly id AQ's

:nuke:

[wubbathompson]

88. SICK PIECES OF SH*T

I hope these motherfuckers rot in hell for this.

[jeanmarc]

90. Isn't this a conservative sign of progress?

Each bomb blast represents a level of desperation by our enemies according to the rightwing spinmeisters. So how is this different?

[stickdog]

96. More on Bush Body Count's Latest

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:G-JgMJAVkkgJ:www.iraq.net/displayarticle3531.html+%22Nick+Berg%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/states/pennsylvania/counties/chester_county/8617523.htm

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/breaking/051104_body_identified.html

[Shopaholic]

97. And Rush & Fox will tell us this is why the torture pics should

never have been shown. Can't wait for them to spin this one.

[Zerex71]

102. We reap what we sow.

[groo]

153. Sow What?

How can you possibly equate us taking stupid embarrassing photos of Iraqis prisoners of war to beheading an American Citizen who is there to help rebuild the city of the people who did this to him? Your statement is truly amazing to me... I completely understand someone not agreeing with the war but come on? Are you that Naive?

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

163. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[groo]

171. thank you

I can not stand it when an individual replies with "F-you and F-this, and F-that" and expect people to respect his opinion! Thank you moderator for keeping a little class here!

[Just Me]

177. Whoops,...soooooo sorry,...(thank you DU moderators),...

,...m-u-s-t c-o-n-t-r-o-l a-n-g-e-r,...

I'm sorry.

I am sincerely grateful for our moderators keeping my passions in check. Thank you!!!!

:bounce:

<on edit I do want to applaud DU and its moderators for maintaining a site that demands the balance necessary for a healthy democracy to flourish. I love DU for that.>

[maddezmom]

166. "stupid embarrassing photos of Iraqis prisoners of war" = torture

in my book...and please remember not all the photos/videos and facts are out yet. The Fay report is still due and I believe he is the one investigating the deaths of the POW's. Yes, deaths...perhaps murders.

[groo]

169. agree

Yes, I agree American soldiers have some serious questions to answer... all I am saying is that this was a kid who was trying to help out a country in need and look what his reward was!? Have you seen the video? I am a 30 year old man with 2 children and I sat here in my office and cried when I saw those animals cut the "freakin'" head off of another human, all the while saying "God is greatest"? I just don't get how we can say that we "reap what we sow"? I am probably more in agreement with you then you think.

[Sandpiper]

213. Sow What? you ask

The US military has killed 10,000 noncombatants since our invasion of Iraq. And now, the lid's being blown off of a massive coverup of abuse, torture, and murder of Iraqi prisoners.

It certainly doesn't excuse what was done to this unfortunate man, but we are reaping exactly what we've sown. Violence begets more violence.

[wickerwoman]

247. A couple points:

1.) Do some more research on those "stupid embarrassing photos". They show US servicemen anal raping minors, beating 12 year old girls and riding 70 year old women like donkeys. Does it equate to cutting someone's head off? Not, really, but it isn't about equivalancy. The point is that blantant US disregard for the Geneva convention has led to our own troops being abused when captured. That's what "you reap what you sow means." When you do horrible shit to other people, it comes back to you, often in a more intense form.

2.) Al Qaeda has claimed responsibility not the Iraqis, so arguing that they were ungrateful to a benevolent antenna repairman who only wanted to help them is inflamatory and factually incorrect.

You obviously don't know the whole story here (none of us do) so you might want to be careful throwing words like "naive" around on your first 5 posts.

[daleo]

104. This one is circles within circles

There are still too many loose threads:

- why was he there?
- his family was anti-war, but he was there to scout out telecommunication towers that needed fixing? What were his qualifications for this?
- where did his money come from if he didn't have a job?
- why did the FBI hold him? Did they charge him? What did they find out about him?
- how did AQ find him? lucky break?
- why the orange jump suit?
- remember Danny Pearl (I think that's the spelling). It was the same m.o. - is there a connection here or a signal being sent?

Maybe some of this has been covered already. I will keep reading.

The timing is also convenient:
- displaces the torture stories.
- encourages the "they are animals anyway" and/or the "see what they do to us" memes.

It seems like when BFEE is in political trouble, people die.

[Neecy]

109. dunno

"- remember Danny Pearl (I think that's the spelling). It was the same m.o. - is there a connection here or a signal being sent?"

I'm guessing that Berg was Jewish, which is the only obvious connection I can see.

[daleo]

118. I hadn't thought of that, I mean whether the name is Jewish

I am not that great about names. I guess the other thing I wondered, was whether this fellow had learned something dangerous to one side or the other, like Pearl presumably did, and was killed to silence him in the same way. Maybe to warn others.

Mere speculation, that is all.

[Just Me]

110. More to add: If a specific aQ is taking responsibility, why hide identity

from head to toe,...with very little flesh showing?

Moreover, the Pentagon released a specific list of aQ targets under which this guy simply does not fall.

[liveoaktx]

115. I watched-he looked very calm the whole time ... until he got

pulled over. What if he thought it was some kind of staged hostage flick and then was surprised?

[Just Me]

127. You watched what - the video? Where is it? n/t

[Just Me]

162. Damnit,...all these posters saying they saw the video yet provide NO link!

WTF is up with that!!!!

:argh:

[Barrett808]

116. U.S. Promises to Find Beheading Suspects

U.S. Promises to Find Beheading Suspects
By Associated Press
May 11, 2004, 3:10 PM EDT

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. -- The Bush administration said Tuesday the people who beheaded American hostage Nick Berg in Iraq are enemies of freedom who will be hunted down and brought to justice.

"Our thoughts and prayers are with his family," White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan said of Berg.

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-bush-american-beheaded,0,2646045.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines








"It shows the true nature of the enemies of freedom. They have no regard for the lives of innocent men, women and children. We will pursue those who are responsible and bring them to justice."

McClellan was in Arkansas with President Bush on a campaign visit to spotlight Bush's education policies. The president spoke at a junior high school before news broke of the killing of Berg, 26, of West Chester, Pa.

An apparent videotape of Berg's beheading was aired on a Web site known to have ties with Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network. The tape also included threats against Bush and Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

[daleo]

120. If your thoughts and prayers were with him

Why didn't you (the Bush government, I mean) give him some help in leaving a dangerous country, after you arrested him and held him for several weeks in jail?

That would have helped a lot more than after the fact prayers.

[Just Me]

124. So, Meyers got his two week delay allowing counter-propaganda

to be created,...including the freakin' beheading of an American citizen!!!

And, do any of us believe that a valid autopsy will be performed indicating when the death occurred? Duh, not. Because my guess is it would coincide way too closely to the last time this poor victim had contacted his parents.

YAK!!! :puke:

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

135. Did Scotty whisper the news in his ear like Andy did on 9-11?

Knowing Scott's thoughts and prayers were with me would make it all better, for sure.

[lostnfound]

200. What, no promise for 'swift and accurate retribution' like before?

The intensity (or lack thereof) of Bush's response is telling.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

117. John McCain on MSNBC: "This is why we must win the war in Iraq"

...for whatever it's worth, those were his comments during a sound bite as reporters caught up with him today.

Anticipate this story and the request for an additional $25 billion to be joined at the hip until the request is approved.

[ithacan]

126. and that attitude is why the US is doomed to lose the war in Iraq

McCain is clueless. He has integrity, unlike the Bushies, but this statement shows he is absolutely clueless and learned nothing from Vietnam.

[Malva Zebrina]

134. we cannot win the war in Iraq

and cannot win the war on terra

we have lost it all--and we need just get out. Let the Halliburton soldiers, the private army, and the mercenaries protect the oil wells and the American businesses.

Our children need to be taken out immediately.

Spain took them out, HOnduras, Italy might be next--all protecting their young

Bush has brought us to this horrorific tragedy and has shamed us. He continues to shame us by insisting that Rumsfeld is as pure as the driven snow. Bush's regime may end up being right up there with any dictator--including Saddam. He is stupid and he is evil, he lies and continues to foist upon this nation falsities that would cause more orrors to occur in our name

After today's hearing, we can see the segue of the evil Bush and his minions. After today's hearings, it would seem that in order to preserve our very freedoms we must get rid of this evil man


After today's hearings, it must be obvious that we must do it ourselves.

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

138. Sounds like a good time to replay Pappy Bush's warning on war in Iraq

"Pappy Bush's 1996 Warning: "War on Iraq Would Turn Entire Arab World Against Us"

http://www.creativeresistance.ca/world-awareness/2003-mar06-pappy-bush's-1996-warning-counterpunch-org.htm

"Former President George Bush predicted in 1996 that if the United States were to engage in another war with Iraq, one aimed at overthrowing Saddam Hussein, the "entire Arab world would turn against us" and the U.S. would alienate its allies in the international community."

"To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us, and make a broken tyrant into a latter-day Arab hero," Bush said in an interview with the BBC marking the five-year anniversary of the Gulf War.

Moreover, Vice President Dick Cheney said at an energy conference six years ago that hundreds of thousands of United States soldiers and Iraqi civilians would die if a war in Iraq were ever fought on the streets of Baghdad.

"To have brought the (Gulf) war into the populous Iraqi capital of Baghdad where Hussein is based would have involved a different type of military operation than in the desert, and would have put large numbers of Iraqi civilians and hundreds of thousands of our troops at risk of being killed," he said."

[Snellius]

137. Assume that Al Qaeda had planned all of this all along

What if they knew we would invade Iraq? What if they did get Saddam's WMDs? What if they offered no resistance on purpose, knowing they could not defeat us by conventional means but only by guerrilla warfare? What if they are intentionally using more horrific atrocities to lure us in further? Just waiting to do maximum damage when the time comes?

Who knows? But it's odd how Bush always underestimates our enemies as "evil doers living in caves". They probably understand us better than we understand ourselves, and know how to use our weakness and fear against us. It's like Bush and Osama are leading us in some suicidal dance of death.

[Just Me]

149. They do seem more like "partners" than opponents, huh. n/t

[fedsron2us]

180. The neocons favourite terrorists

Every time the Bush regime finds itself in deep trouble Al Qaeda can always be relied upon to ride to the rescue. No wonder OBL is never going to be captured.

[grasswire]

119. we need some DU forensic examination

...of this whole matter.

Have AlQ covered themselves in earlier pictures?

Can someone with photoshop blow this up and look for incongruities?

[veracity]

121. We KNEW this was coming... read this...

This was up last week..... as soon as the photos came out. Read and weep. This is the tip of the horrendous 'iceberg' to come...

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/iraq_-_all_bets_are_off.html

[thethinker]

123. Another thing that doesn't seem right about this

The tapes that have been theoretically made by al-Qaida have always come out of Afghanistan, not Iraq. The Iraqis have claimed there are not any foreign fighters there. It seems everyone the American troops have arrested and killed so far have been Iraqi citizens, not foreign fighters.

I remember the tape they made of bin Laden, with an actor that didn't even look like bin Laden, when we were fighting in Afghanistan.

It is the Americans that have tried to paint a connection between the Iraqis and the al-Qaida.

This just doesn't ring right to me. If they had said the citizens of Iraq, or the followers of Sadr had did this, I would have believed it.

Perhaps the CIA got mad about that lawsuit the parents filed.

[Just Me]

136. Very good point!!! Iraqis claim NO foreign fighters in their country. n/t

[lostnfound]

203. & if AQ wants to announce its presence in Iraq,probably more dramatic?

Suicide Bombings etc.? Not one guy beheaded.

[funkybutt]

133. URL of the video

WARNING: EXTREMELY GRAPHIC!!!

http://www.soulsurvivors.net/Public/iraq2vediom.wmv


I couldn't bare to watch it, but i spoke with some people who did. They viewed it from this url around 3:40 pm eastern. It'll probably get shut down soon like an earlier link did

[daleo]

140. Maybe Bush is just lucky

But this video now inoculates people from the worst that the still-to-come prison torture videos can offer. Even if it is never explicitly stated (although it will be), the reasoning will be "sure, our guys raped a teenage boy or girl, but their side cuts off people's heads while they are still alive".

Something about video imagery that Marshall McLuhan (sp?) said, is that it exists in a timeless domain - cause and effect don't count like they do in 'regular life'. So the fact that the torture happened in advance of the beheading doesn't really matter, in the mental realm of the image this can be spun so that the prison torture becomes righteous retribution for the awful beheading.

Like I say, maybe Bush is just lucky. People always die when he is political trouble, though, so they are not so lucky.

[wellst0nev0ter]

181. That Being Said

You should remember that being sexually abused like that is worse than death in the Islamic world, and if you are a woman, it pretty much guarantees your death. If the abusers don't understand that, or worse, if they PERFECTLY understand that, then we have no business being in that part of the world in the first place.

[Snellius]

141. This will just reinforce those who believe all Arabs deserve torture

Most Americans don't really believe Iraqis are much better than butchers any how.

[Flagg]

159. The reverse is also true

[Snellius]

148. How do we know this Islamic website is real? not CIA?

These news stories keep referring to this website that the CIA monitors all the time but I haven't seen any link to the site itself. How do we know al-Zarqawi and Al Qaeda were involved? The family knew about this for weeks so the tape must not be recent. How do we know the tape wasn't in US hands already and placed on a website used by the CIA itself for disinformation? The timing of this tape is just too suspicious.

[maddezmom]

168. everyone cites the site in reporting, but has anyone ever visited

to see for themselves? I'm not buying this shit until someone has a reputable person visit the site, the CIA monitors(or creates). This story stunk when I posted the first article today...and gets stinkier as time goes on.

[Snellius]

184. Exactly, they give out the pictures from the site but not the URL?

Where is this site EXACTLY? Why can't we just link to this site and watch them ourselves? Who made copies of these tapes from the site? Why did they release them now? Even if Al Qaeda did but them on some site, who sent them to the press? To Drudge? To FOX? Almost simultaneously? Right in the middle of Senate hearings on prisoner abuse? Too, too weird.

[Just Me]

188. WHERE IS THE SITE?!?!?! (yeah, I'm screaming, again,...fogive?) n/t

[maddezmom]

206. No F'ING IDEA!!!

you can scream at me all you want..I want to know where the damn site is too!!!! It's like a ghost site, only for reporters to refer to, after being told by our govt (CIA) that's where the tapes have been posted.

[Just Me]

209. *LOL*,...I am definitely not screaming AT you *smile*. Just screaming.n/t

[glitch]

157. Al Queda helps Bush again??

With enemies like that who needs friends?

[spooked]

167. That POOR BOY had NO IDEA he was about to DIE!

Why THE HELL did the US not give them prisoners in exchange for him??? Do we have to play TOUGH GUY EVERY TIME!!!???

We are in real trouble now.

[bluestateguy]

174. I condemn this brutal attack

Just because our forces have committed atrocities does not excuse or give the other side the right to do the same. These perpetrators must also be punished as war criminals, just the same as the guilty US military personnel should be punished.

[bluestateguy]

176. I condemn this brutal attack

Just because our forces have committed atrocities does not excuse or give the other side the right to do the same. These perpetrators must also be punished as war criminals, just the same as the guilty US military personnel should be punished.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

214. Why aren't you complaining about the people that have caused all of...

...this crap? Why aren't you placing the blame squarely on the NeoCon assholes that initiated U. S. military actions in the Middle East?

The American soldiers and the Iraqi people didn't start any of it, did they? But they're the people having to deal with it, and the war is getting increasingly more brutal with each passing day.

[bluestateguy]

231. Oh for God sakes!

Well all you have to do is look at the over 6000 posts I have made on this board to find thousands of posts critical of this Administration and their keyboard pecker allies in the think tanks. I opposed this war from the beginning. Don't believe me? Then go look in the archives. I marched in the streets against this war three times.

I have probably made about 25 posts, TOTAL ever saying anything negative about Muslim terrorists or Islamic militants.

Believe it or not, the United States is not the only country that commits atrocities in wartime. If we excuse the atrocities of the other side, then we make it possible for the apologists of this Administration to excuse the torture committed by US soldiers at Abu Grhaib.

Next time, do your homework before raising your hand in class.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

243. Don't tell me what to do or how to think. I personally don't know how...

...many posts I have on DU, and I don't really care to know. I also wouldn't wave them in the air like a bloody flag if someone else asks one or more questions.

I'd tell you what to do with your own hand but I'm pretty sure it would get me booted from DU.

Next time you don't like my questions, because there WILL be more questions, just ignore my posts.

Are we clear?

[Chicago Democrat]

182. Beheadings in Iraq? Wolf Blitzer fills his stupid show with crap!

Contact CNN, here's my letter:

Wolf Blitzer's idea of "journalism" is to have distraction news, anything but the truth of the horrors in Iraq. Why else would you fill todays news with so much fluff. Who cares about Scot Petersen or Kobe Bryants stupid legal problems. On a day when an AMERICAN WAS BEHEADED ON TV, your "photo of the day" is a stupid tornado pics! On a day when AMERICAN HONOR IS BEING PERMANENTLY RUINED, you decide to do a 20+ minute interview with that self promoter of other people's misery and his stupid 52 card deck ala Saddam!

Is Wolf Blizter reports turning CNN into E! How about some real news. Fire Wolf Warisfun-guy Blitzer!

-----------------------
Write CNN too!

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/

[grasswire]

191. how do we know the audio is authentic?

The speaker is masked.

How do we know that the audio isn't dubbed over and new?

There's no way to tell anything about the authenticity of this.

[Sweatynipples]

193. Warning-Here is the video- VERY GRAPHIC!!!!

This is very disgusting
NSFW


http://www.soulsurvivors.net/Public/iraq2vediom.wmv

[Just Me]

194. Sorry, "sweatynipples" (ugh, what a name),...I don't know you,...

,...and will not chance touching your linky thing.

[Sweatynipples]

196. No prob

Its fine, you don't have to. I wish I never had watched the video

[maddezmom]

207. welcome to DU

so how did you hear about the site and what made ya join up today? :)

[Just Me]

210. Ahem, yes, please forgive my bad manners. Welcome to DU.

"Sweatynipples"

:hi:

Hope you feel at home here.

[Sweatynipples]

212. Thanks

I have been visiting this site for over a year now, just never felt like registering because I already belong to other forums.

Thanks for the welcome.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

204. Yes, that is, uhm. graphic.

I saved it. I don't think I will watch it again.

Thanks for the link.

[Just Me]

216. Okay. If al Zarqawi did this,...why the hell is he reading a script?

And why does that poor man look so relaxed until the end?

And WHY is the beginning of the tape at 13:26 then the "scripted" part at 2:18, nearly thirteen hours later?

[Sean Reynolds]

223. Also

The time changes right before they take the knife to his neck.

It goes from 2:44 to 13:45 when he falls to the ground; when they start cutting the neck. THEN there is a jump in the time from 13:46 to 13:47 when the head comes off the body.

I smell FAKE!

[Just Me]

229. I didn't catch those nuances. I am still grappling with the distance,...

,...required to closely examine the film. I am getting there,...slow but sure,...with compulsions to hug the toilet in between.

[Just Me]

253. There are several "jumps",...this video has been edited,...no doubt. n/t

[nodehopper]

286. it just means it's edited. do you know anything about vide?

[Sean Reynolds]

288. Of course it does.

Which proves my point, why would they edit it? And it wasn't just to cut down the time. The edits come in weird parts. Like when he falls to the ground, in what should have only been a second, is a clip that jumps BACK almost 10 minutes back.

In once scene it's reading around 13 minutes. Then they throw the guy to the ground, it cuts and the scene is reading around 2 minutes.

[Just Me]

304. The "cut and paste" time thingy is really,...challenging.

I can't make heads or tails out of it because it bounces around A LOT, after "the reading of script" segment.

[Just Me]

301. Um, yeah, I have operated video cameras and yup this video's edited,

And your point is?

Do tell.

[spooked]

295. More strange things about the video...

1. The man on the far left keeps his left hand behind his back
during the entire video...perhaps he realized too late he
was still wearing a unique wedding ring that might identify him?

2. All of the men are wearing the same pair of pants, as though
someone from Central Casting layed out their clothes for them.

3. 3 of the men appear to be wearing bullet-proof vests.

4. I would like to know if Arab men stand like basketball
players at attention for the National Anthem.

[Just Me]

306. The bullet-proof vests did draw my attention,...

,...the "standing like basketball players",...BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

That one drew a cathartic laugh from my being.

The only exposed "hands" beneath those total "covered-up" bodies,...looked pale in color.

[Frangible]

320. Those aren't bulletproof vests

Those are "tactical" vests meant to hold ammo. They look similar to the first vest on this page:

http://www.savvysurvivor.com/tactical_vests.htm

A kevlar vest would stretch from the stomach to the top of the chest and are more bulky.

I wish the quality was better, it's hard to find anything that would easily prove this a fake. Then again, it's probably just unfortunately real.

[takebackthewh]

316. Did you see them holding the head in the air?

Do you think it was made out of wax?!

[Sean Reynolds]

319. That I could not tell ya.

But somethin' is odd about that video.

[Danieljay]

215. I refuse to watch the whole thing....

I don't need that in my consciousness..that being said..he's shuffling papers and speaking at the same time. It looks dubbed or taped over.. odd. I refuse to watch all of it..., I'm not going there.

[Just Me]

217. It is a cold-blooded killing. To think that our government,...

,...could have possibly been a part of that,...is beyond rebuke.

Your point about the shuffling papers (which are being read) is well-received.

[trapper914]

226. About the shuffling papers...

I watched...(regrets)...the audio and video when I saw it weren't synched up.

[takebackthewh]

315. If it's a fake, it's a very realistic one. n/t

[tedzbear]

211. I just watched it and it is horrible.

It is no Hollywood movie. It is real. The guy's screaming while they saw off his head will give me nightmares for days.

Bring our troops home now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:mad:

[WLKjr]

227. Words Cannot Describe This

......
Rest in peace my fellow American.

[maddezmom]

228. just watched, too...sorry I did

Does anyone know if any Arabic experts have weighed in yet on the authenticity of the video and accents of the militants?

[frankieT]

248. there are also a few snuffs of this kind

showing more precisely young russians beheaded in Chechenya. it was also the favorite "technique" of the Islamic Group in Algeria.

eventually, a dead is a dead.

btw, for me this video release is obviously staged. totally fake or old snuff recycled with new sound.

[TroglodyteScholar]

275. Did anyone notice...

The American in the video looks absolutely nothing like the fellow whom they claim it is? Granted, he'd been in Iraq a while, so he may have lost weight and grown facial hair (but would his hair have darkened, too?)

I don't know what the hell to think about this.

[Danieljay]

240. People...be very careful about watching this...

This is something you might NOT want in your consciousness. You can't unsee something. I watched up until the knife was pulled then stopped..I didn't need to see any more..and just the thought was disturbing enough for me.

edited for spelling

[Just Me]

258. Yup,'bout as bad as any American horror flick less the drawn-out gore. n/t

We've observed babies limbs blown off, mommas skulls ripped away, strewn body parts.

What makes me wanna' puke is the likelihood that our own government did this act in order to generate counter-propaganda.

[takebackthewh]

317. You're sick.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

241. Got to tell you people, the Freeps are blaming us and CBS - surprise!

And I'm sure some tinfoil people will start blaming the admin (too soon to jump on that grizly bandwagon, not that I wouldn't should evidence come to light).

I would put a link but your imagination is telling you exactly what they're saying, trust me, I been there.

[Citizen Daryl]

246. Don't forget what was said in the "friendly" Saudi media:

" comes as no surprise for those of us who years ago stopped buying the horse manure the Americans laughingly describe as 'truth and honesty' ... This hullabaloo will soon be over. Everything will be forgotten within a week at the most. The Iraqis will continue to suffer torture and abuse as if none of this had happened. But we will not forget ... You see, revenge is a dish best eaten cold. Our friends and allies the Americans have a saying, which I believe we should make our motto: 'Don't get mad. Get even.'"

Amr Mohammed Al-Faisal, Arab News, Saudi Arabia, May 9

[Frangible]

321. the Saudis know Klingon?

"You see, revenge is a dish best eaten cold."

[ikojo]

252. According to CNN Nick Berg was Jewish

As soon I heard the story on the radio and the names of his mom and dad and siblings I suspected he was Jewish. Also, Daniel Perle was decapitated and it was primarily because he was Jewish. Being American didn't help but being a Jew hurt worse, IMHO.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/11/berg.victim.ap/index.html

Berg's father said his son was Jewish and had a fringed religious cloth with him, but he did not think Berg wore the clothing in public. Still, "there's a better chance than not that they knew he was Jewish," Michael Berg said. "If there was any doubt that they were going to kill him that probably clinched it, I'm guessing."


Also,according to NY Newsday, NICK Berg was a Bush supporter whereas it appears the rest of his family did not support the war.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/all-islamicsite-side-051104,0,7401208.story?coll=ny-homepage-big-pix


Michael Berg described himself as fervently anti-war, but said his son disagreed with him.

"He was a Bush supporter," Berg said. "He looked at it as bringing democracy to a country that didn't have it."

[Just Me]

257. Wow. What a polished FBI/CIA black-ops creation,...

,...just for the BFEE,...good ole' Pappa Bush, mr. x-cia knows exactly how this shit turns, huh.

[peacetalksforall]

256. If we can conceive of the U.S. doing it to our own...

then it's plausible. End. Over.

They're heads were covered. There is anger about getting caught for prison handling and humiliation and/or murder.

In any case, travel will come to a halt.

The most valuable income producing, income growing industry to the little people of the earth is tourism in a peaceful world.

So look what the the military-industrial world has brought everyone. Tourism is too tame. It doesn't involve earth resource extraction and it scatters the wealth. Bad. Bad. If you prefer riches for a few.

[Just Me]

263. Yup, tyranny must be at hand via the US military/industrialplex.

And,...this is no vacation!!! A "trip",...yes,...but, definitely not a vacation!!!

[Name removed]

261. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Just Me]

267. WOW!!! Another newbie!!!! WELCOME TO DU!!!

:hi:

:kick:

[Magleetis]

274. Don't be shy

about helping yourself to punch and cookies.

[Just Me]

277. And HUGS!!!!

:hug:

[jlo102jlo]

279. Do you mean me too? Thanks.

Seeing as you said read at the bottom?

LOL, don't wink anymore, ok? Folks here may wonder, LOL

MY DH is a 100% disabled veteran. Mentally disabled, 100% from his service in Vietnam.

Who knows, what he might do. LOL. Wink, to you also. My wink to you I hope is as benign as I took yours to be to me.

jlo102jlo











Just Me May-11-04 08:54 PM #263
To hell With them SOB's gmaf_3077 May-11-04 08:50 PM #261
WOW!!! Another newbie!!!! WELCOME TO DU!!! Just Me May-11-04 09:03 PM #267
Don't be shy Magleetis May-11-04 09:15 PM #274
And HUGS!!!! Just Me May-11-04 09:21 PM #277

[jlo102jlo]

283. LOL

God love ya. Thanks for the welcome.

Should I wink? Na, didn't think so.

This really is NOT one bit funny.

[Just Me]

284. Hug to you,too, my dear,...

:hug:

I'm sorry that your DH suffered. :cry:

Humanity can do so much better than create that kind of suffering.

[Just Me]

285. Itsy bitsy correction,...I said to read from the bottom up.

Of course, I know you would never misrepresent or skew anything. You are an up-an-up kinda' person.

[daleo]

311. Are you advocating nuclear war?

Or just a nuclear attack on Iraq to kill everybody there, including innocent children? If so, the radiation would likely kill millions in other countries as well, including many allies (for example, Israel). Then, they might retaliate on the U.S. for the unintended genocide. Who knows, the Russians or Chinese might want to join the party, too.

You should think a little harder before you post. Advocating the deaths of hundreds of millions of innocent people in retaliation for the death of one unfortunate victim is over-reaction, to say the least.

[saigon68]

323. ADIOS

VAYA CON DIOS

[jlo102jlo]

291. Exactly - it was revenge!

Our US media beat this over everyone's head....over and over and over...

I saw this coming two weeks ago after it aired on CBS - thanks to Dan Rather.

Blood on HIS hands, I'd say. CBS too.

Hey - this is a dissenting opinion. From me. Don't shoot the messenger, here. Except shoot the media messenger who first aired this.

If he didn't - this be-heading never would have happened. Dan Rather and CBS just HAD to post the photos, didn't they. How stupid are they?

From a dissenter of CBS. And a wife of a 100% mentally disabled veteran.

[Just Me]

294. Is the earth and all its people FLAT - to you? Just curious.

'Cause,...you seem to refuse to acknowledge the middle. Are you ignoring the information in this thread which indicates that our government may have done this beheading? If so, why?

[Nihil]

322. Revenge? The question is "by whom?" ...

> Except shoot the media messenger who first aired this.

Tut, tut ... death threats to a US citizen?

> If he didn't - this be-heading never would have happened.

Possibly. If there was no publicity, no evidence presented to the
average American, then life could just go on as before in the good
old traditional "stuff 'em, they're foreign" way that discards any
item of information which may trouble your beautiful mind.

> Dan Rather and CBS just HAD to post the photos, didn't they.

Yes. Once in a while even American journalists develop a spine.
This was such an occasion.

> How stupid are they?

Not as stupid as you appear to be. They simply lifted the stone.
They didn't put the cockroaches underneath it.

> From a dissenter of CBS.

Dissent is good. Ostrich-like avoidance of the truth isn't quite so
good. Advocating the banning of news reports that dare to conflict
with the party line is definitely not good.

> And a wife of a 100% mentally disabled veteran.

From your posts so far, ... oh, never mind ...

[Puglover]

330. Lol...great post Nihil

n/t

[maxpower]

334. Nice

Great post

[Name removed]

345. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ze_dscherman]

325. So AQ got their knowledge about torture in Iraq from CBS?

Of course, AQ now is hopping on the bandwagon of outrage - they are playing very well with PR.

But Iraqis have been complaining about torture and abuse since the occupation. The Afghanis had their stories as well. And don't forget that there was not only "rough" handling, heavy handed raids, and some "abuse" in prisons. It's many thousands of Iraqis that are in detention, without due process, and there are the many thousands that have been killed during and after the invasion. Just the very recent siege of Fallujah has cost 600-1300 (depending on source) lifes.

[Stockholm]

324. I regret having watched it - I feel physically ill!

You could actually tell by looking at the murderers who the youngest and most nervous was (far right). He fidgeted a lot knowing what was going to happen...

(I think I have to throw up...)

By the clock count there is a long jump to the actual ******* wonder if they hesitated the first time?

Time´s like these I wish there was a hell.

[Sgt. Peppers]

329. It is blood on Bush & Co. hands

:(