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US Iraq mission undercut by abuse -Democrat Clark

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 10:53 AM
Original message
US Iraq mission undercut by abuse -Democrat Clark
Edited on Sat May-08-04 10:56 AM by NNN0LHI
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N08367900.htm

WASHINGTON, May 8 (Reuters) - The abuse of Iraqi prisoners by U.S. troops has led to a loss of credibility that undermines an already troubled U.S. military mission, retired Gen. Wesley Clark said in the Democratic weekly radio address on Saturday.

"Apologies are not enough," the former Democratic presidential candidate said. "These criminal acts of abuse must be investigated fully and those responsible held accountable under law."

Clark, a former NATO commander who directed the 1999 bombing campaign in Kosovo, was an early critic of the war in Iraq. A senior member of the U.S. team that helped broker the 1995 Dayton peace accords on Bosnia, Clark testified at the war crimes trial of former Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic. snip

"The truth is President Bush made mistake after mistake as commander in chief, taking us into a war we didn't have to wage, alone and under false pretenses and is now managing it poorly," Clark said.

"To prevent Iraq from becoming a failed state that breeds new terrorists, America must change course," he said, calling for greater cooperation on Iraq with U.S. allies.

more

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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. I love Wes, but he doesn't fully understand how dire things are
Edited on Sat May-08-04 11:13 AM by chookie
Investigation and punishment are not going to be enough.

No amount of apology or reparation will be enough.

The Americans have inflicted humilation on the Iraqis, and by extension all Muslims -- and in an honor-based culture, there is but one remedy for it -- violent revenge.

Only way we can prevent this from exploding out of control at this point is to take it upon ourselves to impeach Bush et al and indict him for war crimes. *That* alone may provide satisfaction to the offended.
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indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I think he does
Edited on Sat May-08-04 11:30 AM by indie_voter
However you got to start somewhere.

Bush will never be indicted for war crimes. Nor will anybody else.

We have to work with reality.

Clark (like most democrats AND republicans I watched yesterday) know we are in a hole. How do we get out? In a perfect world your solution would be implemented but it just will not happen.

So fresh faces like Clark and others will have to grovel behind the scenes while walking the fine line in public as they try to restore some dignity to our country.

I sometimes feel as if I am in a twilightzone epsiode. How is it possible in just 3+ years Bush has destroyed what took 200+ years to build.

How?

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Actually war crimes tribunals are not that far off
of a possibitly, this is tne natiinal trauma that some of the
Sentaors were talking about. When they did say, this cannot stop by trying some stripes on the arm, but needs to go to those with STARS on their shoulders, both Myers and Smith lost a lot of color, an Shoomaker looked uncomfortabe. For a SpecOps guy to be uncomfortable, and that is Shoomaker's background, it take a lot. Rumsfeld looked chocked, bcause he raelizd at that moment what that meant.

We tried Lt. Calley many yraas ago for May Lai, but the military was able to spare the chain. this time they will not... after all many of the things done in that jail require the authorization of a General Officer. So they will try to throw Karpinsky to the wolves, and that si when all of us must say, boys she is a nice and juicy sacrifical lamb, but neither Brigadiers or sergeants run the Army.

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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. We hung Japanese brass after WW2.
Not to sound too scarey.

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indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I hope to see this (war crime trial) happen
Edited on Sat May-08-04 12:29 PM by indie_voter
But I have grave doubts it will happen in this (cliche alert!!) post 9/11 world.

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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I agree. Many here at DU still do not realize the seriousness of this yet
For those not quite sure yet let me spell it out for you. THIS IS SOME SERIOUS SHIT HERE!

Yes Rumsfeld and others could very well ind up at a war crimes tribunal. It is not likely, but just knowing that the possibility does exist makes things a lot more dangerous for us all.

Don

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indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. I thought we exempted ourselves from international law?
Edited on Sat May-08-04 12:39 PM by indie_voter
That would be the only way mho. I have little hope anything will happen here.

Resignations maybe, but actual justice? I wish I didn't feel so cynical but regardless of the seriousness of this (it is HUGE, I agree), I would bet these guys slip the proverbial noose.

The pardons will fly fast and furious in November.
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Desperadoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. How is it possible
It's possible because it didn't just take 3+ years. These criminals have been working on this for 50 years!! It's only now that all of the necessary pieces are in place to make it feasible.

These criminals are some of the smartest, richest and most powerful people on the planet and they have meticulously planned everything that has taken place.

Everyone laughed at her but Hillary was spot-on, this is a vast right wing conspiracy and it has been formulating since the end of WWII. Clark knows this and so does every single member of Congress from both sides of the aisle. Anyone who pretends otherwise is either stupid or a liar.

The only question remaining is whether or not there are enough true patriots with enough of guts and power that can stop this treason from taking place. I seriously doubt it. This country is morally bankrupt and wallows in indifference. We will have to lose it all in order to understand the gravity of our deeds.

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Wind Dancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Well said!
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chookie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. "It ain't gonna happen."
I have posted the "Bush Must Be Impeached and Indicted" solution to end the Iraq war a few times, and each time have gotten the "Face it -- it ain't gonna happen."

Fair enough -- I do understand that these bastards will NEVER voluntarily relinquish power, even if they have to destroy our country in the process. They're hoping that their failures get lost in the fog of ever-escalating chaos and war.

Reaching out once again to the rest of the world has just gotten a lot harder. John Kerry, or any Democrat, sadly, is going to find himself bitterly embattled with America's ever-growing enemies, and he will have to strike back -- thus maintaining the cycle of violence. Yeah, well Bush knew from the inception that all he had to do was to stick his foot in the door (Iraq) and that a prolonged and profitable war would result.

If Kerry is elected, watch the Flying Monkeys go after him and do everything they can to sabotage his efforts. Anything that he does will be pronounced a failure, and a failure due to weakness -- opening the door to the "unbending resolve" to another member of the Bush dynasty. He could nuke the Middle East his first day in office and still be called an appeaser. Bizarre.

The consequences of not finding a way to carry out the "Chookie Doctrine" will be the resort to use of unbridled military force -- because that's all Bush has left, because he has obliterated America's moral prestige and leadership. We will find ourselves in an even more terrifying spiral of ever-increasing violence as a result. They will say the reason that the war has gone so badly is because some pesky do-gooders made those photographs public -- leading to further justification of repression and censorship at home in the interest of national security. Polarization at home will also increase, because a draft will become necessary, infuriating people who oppose the war, and turning other people who have loved ones in the service against their fellow citizens, who they will blame for having made the situation more dangerous for them by not showing unity behind the president. The consequences of the actions of Bush and Sharon will be to make America and Israel even more vulnerable to violence -- and how will they respond to this inevitability but to say, "See? We told you these Arabs were rotten murderers." More and more people will buy into this, "softening" up Americans to embrace a prolonged regional war, not having a clue what they have gotten us into.

If Bush et al are not impeached, etc, it's going to be very hard for America to make any kind of moral or legal appeal.

Too bad no one has the guts to push this through, because I fear the bad times for our nation are just beginning. That is fairly certain. But how the bad times will end, and when is not certain, and may be quite brutal and awful.

Boy -- aren't I the cheery one?

Wes is a smart guy, and who I was supporting for the Presidency. We sure do need someone who is pragmatic and solution oriented, not ideologically driven. We also need someone who can restore the honor of our military by confronting the militarists and the contractors. I know he will use his prudent judgement in applying to these horrific times. Wes has heard the call to duty, and he's got great guts. I know he is part of the solution. He might even get around to adopting The Chookie Doctrine :-)

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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-08-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
9.  Guess who sponsors the "printer friendly"version of the text at
NY Times website?????????????? None other that "FOX Pictures Searchlight"...So. FAUX has it's fingers directly in the Times via "sponsorship".....

One has to wonder.......
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