U.S. walks out before U.N. votes to keep Sudan on Human Rights Commission

[Kadie]

U.S. walks out before U.N. votes to keep Sudan on Human Rights Commission

EDITH M. LEDERER, Associated Press Writer
Tuesday, May 4, 2004

The United States walked out of a U.N. meeting Tuesday to protest its decision minutes later to give Sudan a third term on the Human Rights Commission, the world body's human rights watchdog.

U.S. Ambassador Sichan Siv called the vote an "absurdity" and accused Sudan of massive human rights violations and "ethnic cleansing" in the western Darfur region before getting up from his chair and walking out of the Economic and Social Council chamber.

As he was leaving, Sudan's deputy U.N. ambassador Omar Bashir Manis launched into a heated response, accusing American forces of engaging in degrading treatment of Iraqi prisoners and committing "atrocities" against innocent Iraqi civilians.

But the United States' seat in the chamber was empty, and no American diplomat was there to hear it.


more... http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/a/2004/05/04/international1217EDT0547.DTL

[maddezmom]

1. pot meet kettle

Sudan shouldn't be on the committe and either should we at this point. sad to say, but it's true. :(

[Just Me]

2. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought Manis had a proven record,...

,...as an exceptional human rights advocate.

Am I mistaken?

:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Can we say that Sudan has pointed the huge

log in our eye right at the moment.

Fifty years of pushing for human rights have gone down the toilet

[rangerfan]

4. Don't tell me you are comparing the genocide of 30,000

in Sudan to the embarassment of a few Iraqi prisoners. Moral relativism gone wild.

[THUNDER HANDS]

5. uh no

what he was getting at is that it's completely useless for us to now get on our high horse and talk about someone standing up for human rights.

We can't.

Thanks to Bush and his stupid war.

[Heddi]

7. Don't tell me you're calling

War Crimes (as described by the Geneva Convention) as being an "embarassment of a few Iraqi prisoners".

Perhaps, since what happened was nothing more than "embarassing", you'd be willing to have your mother, or father, or wife, or daughter, or son be part of such activities....all against their will, of course. All under distress, of course. But hey, it's just "embarassment", right?

How about the reports of prisoners being raped with chemical lights? Let me guess...they were asking for it anyways? Any Iraqi should know that walking around naked in a prison with a bag over your head is asking for anal rape, right?

God. You're so right. Why have we been so disolusioned all this time?

</sarcasm>

[rangerfan]

15. And the atrocities that occurred at Abu Ghraib is being dealt with

unlike the genocidal atrocities in Sudan.

[papau]

8. 30,000 - or total dead over all years of 2 million - I've only seen the

larger number.

Thanks

:-)

[catzies]

9. "Embarrassment?" Is that like when last summer

Ann Coulter said that it was no big deal, they were "just getting their hair mussed?"

Here's the link to the transcript for that exhange so you can read for yourself.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3080399/


edited for clarity and added link

[nolabels]

35. The link didn't work for me, so I tried the cached version

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:lHogmLA3e-8J:msnbc.msn.com/id/3080399/+%22msnbc.msn.%2Bcom/id/3080399%22&hl=en

(snip)
O’DONNELL: Ann Coulter, I want you-Ann Coulter, I want you to tell Penn Jillette why this is not Vietnam. He has compared it to quagmire in Vietnam.

JILLETTE: Yeah, when are we going to be out, that’s all.

O’DONNELL: Tell him-he wants to know, when are we going to be out, and tell him what’s different about this.

COULTER: Well, I think I can answer everyone’s objections.

JILLETTE: Go!

COULTER: These are the same arguments, the precise same arguments that were being made before the war. It’s going to be a quagmire. What is the plan? When do we get out? How much is it going to cost? Someone in the military might get his hair mussed. We heard all these arguments.

JILLETTE: No, not mussed. They might die; people die.

COULTER: With many candidates voting in favor of it.

(CROSSTALK)

JILLETTE: This was not a hair muss; they died! They died! They did not get the hair mussed.

COULTER: ... more like I say.

JILLETTE: I know it happens in war, which is why ...

(CROSSTALK)

JILLETTE: People died.

COULTER: That’s (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

JILLETTE: That’s why you have to think a lot about it before you went into the war. That’s why you have got to know what you’re doing all the way through to the end. That’s why you can’t be faking it. You can’t fly by the seat of your pants, because people die.

COULTER: ... going magnificently well.
(snip)

Saved it on the hard drive

[Kadie]

10. It is more than just the prisoners

As he was leaving, Sudan's deputy U.N. ambassador Omar Bashir Manis launched into a heated response, accusing American forces of engaging in degrading treatment of Iraqi prisoners and committing "atrocities" against innocent Iraqi civilians.

What about the thousand of innocents killed in this war. Even if you were for the war you have to admit that this administration went in totally unprepared. Because of that our soldiers and many many Iraqi's have died. I would call that atrocious.

[dudeness]

11. and the 1,000,000 Iraqis

that died 1991-2001 from US/UK sanctions and non-stop bombing how does that compare?

[demdave]

31. But I thought the sanctions were working....we had Saddam contained.

[July]

37. If this is sarcasm, where are you going?

Sounds like a winger talking point.

[The Stranger]

12. A "few"? Maybe only a "few" were photographed.

How many others have been railroaded or threatened to keep quiet with further incarceration and violent war crimes? Would we even know of these "few" if it hadn't been leaked and reported by CBS News, forcing the Pentagon to acknowledge even this?

[Iceburg]

13. Are you forgetting the 20,000 Iraqi civilians that died

and the 10's of thousands of Iraqis civilians that were wounded and maimed.

[gottaB]

14. I'm with you, rangerfan

Bashir Manis is the one with the log in his eye, and the fecklessness of the UN with regard to the Sudan conflict is a black eye for the Commission and a setback for international human rights.

It's quite possible that heads will roll (figuratively, of course) over the scandal of Abu Ghraib. And who will be held responsible for the depredations of the Janjaweed? It's preposterous.

"Sudan has acknowledged the humanitarian problem in Darfur"--Yeah, right. They've blamed as much as they could on the rebels, and protested every attempt to make them reign in the militias and stop the ethnic cleansing.


on edit:

adding a link to document Sudan's latest round of denials:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3656693.stm

and the UN's latest report:

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=10615&Cr=sudan&Cr1=

"humanitarian situation in Darfur one of worst in the world"--yeah, that's softening the harsh truth. Read in that brief report about people "wounded, raped, killed," about looting and burning villages, then what's the thought that comes into your mind? Yeah, me too. Food aid. Literacy rates. Humanitarianism. Poor, unforturnate people. It's a disgrace.

[gottaB]

22. links

Recent News Items

• Darfur crisis 'tragic', UN says
  
• In Sudan, Militiamen on Horses Uproot a Million
  
• We must stop the slaughter in Darfur
  

Prior DU Threads

• Darfur Update
  
• U.S. Ignoring ethinic cleansing in Darfur, Sudan
  
• War in Western Sudan Threatens to Destroy Hopes for Peace
  
• Sudan: Darfur is World's Greatest Humanitarian Disaster
  
• Kristof: Ethnic Cleansing, Again
  
• Ethnic Cleansing, Again...
  
• Angelina Jolie Donates $50,000 for Darfur Refugees
  
• Amnesty urges action in West Sudan
  
• Chad army deploys on Sudan border
  
• UN demands better security in Darfur, Sudan
  
• Rape, torture, and one million forced to flee as Sudan's crisis unfolds
  
• "Mass execution" in western Sudan
  
• Massive Atrocities in Darfur
  
• UN urges global action on Darfur
  
• Mass rape atrocity in west Sudan
  

[Tempest]

17. Embarrassment of a few Iraqi prisoners?

25 Prisoners Died While Held by U.S. Forces

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040504/ts_nm/iraq_abuse_deaths_dc&cid=564&ncid=1480

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Twenty-five prisoners have died while being held by U.S. forces in Iraq (news - web sites) and Afghanistan (news - web sites) and two of them were murdered in Iraq by Americans, U.S. Army officials said on Tuesday.

[rangerfan]

18. They've already been tried and convicted??

[DrWeird]

19. No, they're already dead.

Talk about moral relativism.

:eyes:

[tom_paine]

24. The Moral Relativism of a Totalitarian

Everything my Masters tell me to think is right.

Non-Party Approved information is always wrong because my Masters tell me it's so.

Sound familiar? It probably should. Been a lot of that on the boards lately. Perhaps if I was to become a fan of either that Texas baseball team or perhaps the NYC hockey team, I might develop Totalitarian tendencies myself.

Hmmm.....

[bloom]

21. The Iraq War was an unnecessary pre-emptive war.

Many Iraqis have died. We are not bothering to count.


We have no credibility.

[tom_paine]

23. Don't tell me that you are using that old Bushevik Line "moral relativism"

Wow, I guess if I was a Bushevik Operative or Freeper, then I would say something like that, too.

I might agree with your point, but I would only say it (and I could hear your sneer from here) like you did ONLY if I was a Freeper.

Now, I don't know what you are and I don;t presume to guess who and what you are.

I'm just sharing a little story about how I would speak in Bushevik Lying Sound-Bytes ONLY if I was a Freeper/Dittohead/Brownshirt (though I repeat myself).

[rangerfan]

26. If you can't see the difference between Sudan and

the United States, then I think you don't undertand moral relativism. Then all you can do to try to support it is to make weak accusations of me? Tell me how 30,000+ genocidal deaths in Sudan is morally equal to what we have seen from Abu Ghraib? The U.S. is already investigating and prosecuting the atrocities at Abu Ghraib. What is the Sudan doing about the genocides? What is the U.N. doing about the genocides? Want the answer -- Nothing.

[Vladimir]

27. Oh ok then, since you asked for it...

How about the 10,000 dead civilians in this war so far? Or the several thousand dead civilians in Afganistan? Or the 3000 dead civilians during Kosovo? Or the 500,000 or so civilians who died during the 90s because of the UN sanctions regime? Or the Turkish Kurds who suffer and are cleansed under a regime the US is only too happy to support? Or the 100-250,000 (depends on who you believe) Serbs cleansed from Croatia in the mid 90s by a Croatian army led by retired US generals serving as mercenaries? Or the people of Uzbekistan or Turkmenistan? Or the dead of Chile 1973 and throughout Pinochet? What about Pol Pot, whose government was tacitly supported for a long time by the US? Or maybe we should consider the dead of Iraq during the 80s killed by Saddam using weapons supplied to him by the US? The 1 million who died in the Iran-Iraq war which was sponsored by the US? What about the opressed in Saudi Arabia whose government the US supports? What about Guantanamo bay? I can be as relative as you like mate, the US has commited more human rights atrocities, either directly or through tacit support of the governments in question, than Sudan will ever manage.

[Just Me]

28. And that is merely snippets of reality. So much for moral relativism.

Those who throw out a "moral relativism" argument put me in auto "red flag" mode and I tend to assume the spewer is relatively immoral. Bad on me, I guess,...but, I just can't help it.

[Vladimir]

30. Oh and while I am at it

sorry to post a second reply but that word 'embarassment' is getting more annoying each time I read it. Say, if someone were to stuff a cock down your throat and force you to suck it, would you consider yourself as having been embarassed? Just wondering...

[JohnOneillsMemory]

39. Iraqi deaths in illegal invasion=10,000-50,000. Hello Nuremberg! n/t

[stoptheshrub]

32. I can't believe I am seeing these posts....

on any websites where people are standing up together and asking for a better America, AMERICA.

Here's moral relativism for you....

The UN human rights commission and the world human rights watch WILL ALWAYS CLAIM THE US IS EVIL. Why? because we are the only superpower (or at least the main one, and they feel good by attacking us). I agree, what happened in the Iraqi prison is COMPLETELY unacceptable. Not only should those soldiers be tried in military court but if they are found guilty of war crimes (i.e. violating the Geneva convention) then we ought to think about putting them in front of the Hague too.

But here's where I differ in my opinion from most of the people on this forum. Just because some freeper or repug talking head says something DOES NOT MEAN you have to automatically be against that view. THINK FOR YOURSELF AND BE PROACTIVE NOT REACTIVE. AND JOHN KERRY LISTEN UP TOO DON'T GO OUT AND JUST SAY BUSH BAD, YOU IDIOT.

As for human rights. Yes Iraqi civilians have died and yes during the 1990's Iraqi civilians were hurt by the embargo's but NO I don't blame that on the US solely (the UN imposed them too, and it was not repug admin for most of the 90's if you remember). Iraqi leaders made the decision to invade another country and something had to be done, appeasement does not work NEVER HAS. Part of the cease fire agreements WORLDWIDE was that an embargo would be placed on IRAQ FOR INVADING ANOTHER COUNTRY. It sucks that their civilians got hurt, but maybe they should have been more PROACTIVE in removing the threat. Agree with the current war or not (which I don't), Saddam (if he's even the one captured - conspiracy theory) has been found to be a pathetic shell of a man.

The human rights groups will ALWAYS find fault with the US. In the 90's it was this: racial profiling in law enforcement!!! Now that is wrong but does not deserve to be placed second in human rights abuser shortly behind CHINA (YES CHINA- the notorious country that has committed cultural genocide for decades) and puts us worse than the Rwandan gov't (at the time), Serbia, and Bosnia. COME ON OPEN YOUR EYES.

and one more thing, The actions of the US soldiers IS TERRIBLE (the few that did these actions) but my question about this situation has to be this: WHERE WAS EVEN A SEMBLANCE OF THE OUTRAGE BEING DISPLAYED ON THIS ISSUE WHEN THE FALLUJANS KILLED, BURNED, DISMEMBERED, DRUG THROUGH THE STREETS, AND HUNG THE CIVILIAN CONTRACTORS???

I love my country and I don't blame her first out of reflex like a lot of people do. That means you will probably call me a freeper but screw you if you do cause I am not. See most countries in the world have bloodshed and violence when a regime is changed. WE DON'T!!! And every four years we faithfully go to the polls and VOTE for our candidate and watch a non-violent change in power. Sometimes I want to say SCREW THE UN UNTIL THEY CAN PROVE THEY DID NOT TRADE MONEY FOR OIL UNDER THE TABLE WITH IRAQ. defend yourself first Kofi Annan.

peace out,

STOPTHESHRUB

[Vladimir]

36. Contractors?

You mean the same ones who chose to go and participate in an illegal invasion and profit from the ensuing occupation? Yeah, my heart bleeds...

[JohnOneillsMemory]

40. Not reflexive blame. FACTS. The US coup in HAITI? hmm?

Yes, the terrorism and slaughter from the US arming of thugs with brand new M16s and withdrawing security from Aristide and US marines kidnapping a democratically elected leader of Haiti after cutting off aid to a starving nation.

The invasion of Kuwait was ok'd by US ambassador April Glaspie and their are tapes and transcripts to confirm this. She even said that she was supposed to convey that James Baker, the Bush crime families official mouthpiece had said Saddam could do what he wanted.

Are you that short on facts and history that you fling accusations of 'Hate America' first syndrome on people who do know this shit?

[papau]

6. This time Sudan's not Muslim vs Christian, just land grab between Muslims

Sudan's deputy U.N. ambassador Omar Bashir Manis has a long record of what?

This time a million folk are homeless - but it is not religious - indeed the religious war (or racist war if you like because the Christian's are mostly a darker black than the brownish Muslims)will likely come to an end.

And we will only have memories of 2 million dead, and a current problem of 1 million homeless.

[damnraddem]

16. Mr. Pot doesn't like Mr. Kettle.

And to think -- now it's too late to compromise by putting Saddam's Iraq on the Commission. Hey, how about Sharon's Israel?

[plurality]

20. maybe we could put Karimov's Uzbekistan on!

Evidently our government doesn't mind governments that boil people alive, as long as they give us our due when it comes to natural resource concessions. This government has always talked out of it's ass when it comes to human rights, the only nations it condemns are the ones that don't sell out their national interests to US corporations. Who know's maybe the UN should just kick Sudan AND the US off and pick a new council.

[gottaB]

25. from UN news center

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=10620&Cr=sudan&Cr1=

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. i agree with this "walkout"

[Tinoire]

33. Good. Let the US walk out PERMANENTLY

It's one of the last countries needed on a "Human Rights" panel.

[daleo]

34. Maybe the solution is to kick both Sudan and the U.S. off the panel

Since both have had serious human rights abuses recent.

And, at the risk of being a "moral relativist", I think in general human rights abuses perpetrated by an invader are worse than domestic oppression - the reason is that the former threaten world peace at the same time as they violate human rights. The latter at least do not threaten the peace of the world. And international war leads to the greatest human rights violations of all, both in scale and in lack of any natural sympathy between the parties involved (other than natural human sympathy, which sadly is usually in short supply during international wars).

[NJ Blue Collar]

38. Our recent abuses of Iraqi prisoners

certainly hurts any moral authority we might have (had?) concering human rights. But the Sudan of all countries has no room to talk.