Calif. Democrat Raises Possibility of a Retaliatory Recall Bid

[pruner]

Recall the Recaller?

By Jake Tapper

L O S  A N G E L E S, Aug. 4— Just when you thought the California recall mess couldn't get any messier, one of the state's leading Democrats is threatening to up the ante.

San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown warns that if Democratic Gov. Gray Davis is recalled, Democrats may retaliate by launching yet another recall.

"If it works for Republicans, all you've got to do is raise enough money," Brown told ABCNEWS. "I have enough money to have it work for Democrats. And believe me, I think the Democrats will do it."

Brown said he would "enthusiastically" participate in any Democratic retaliatory recall effort should Davis be replaced by a Republican in the Oct. 7 recall election.

"It would be my duty," Brown said. "The state of California in all of its complexities cannot be entrusted to people who are not qualified to do it."

In his definition of those who are not qualified, he included the leading declared Republican candidates — Bill Simon, who narrowly lost to Davis in his 2002 re-election, and Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., who bankrolled the recall signature-gathering effort.

<snip>

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/Politics/calif_recall030804.html

Mods: I know that the actual headline is Recall the Recaller, but I thought the subhead made a better subject line. Please change if necessary.

[bluestateguy]

1. YES!!!YES!!YES!!YES!!!!!!

This is what needs to be done. If Issa or any Republican is "elected" a recall effort must begin the morning after election day.

Politcs is about revenge and destoying your enemies. Always attack.

[gibbyman]

2. Way to Go Mr B

Go Brown Go, Others Dems. could learn a thing of two from Mr B.

[samsingh]

15. this must be done otherwise repugs will steal

and lie their way into power all over the country.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

51. If what I hear about Issa is true a recall is guarenteed should he be ....

..elected.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

68. Issa has not a snowball's chance in hell...

...to get elected. He can buy a recall but he can't buy all those votes. California Repubs will take his money to get Davis out, but they won't elect him.

[Voltaire99]

85. Yes, this is the way to do it

If the GOP opts out of the political contract--if it will mask its political violence in whimsical impeachment and recall, pretending these are the equivalent in democracy of the jaws of life--then Democrats must fight just as viciously.

Fuck bipartisanship! Fight!

[Democat]

3. Contact Brown and let him know we support this idea!

Contact the Mayor
Willie L. Brown, Jr., Mayor
City Hall, Room 200
1 Dr. Carlton B. Goodlett Place
San Francisco, CA 94102
Telephone: [phone]
TDD: [phone]
Fax: [phone]
Email: [email protected]

http://www.ci.sf.ca.us/site/mayor_index.asp

[shirlden]

14. E-mail sent

Good on ya, Mr Mayor.

:bounce:

[Gingersnap]

60. my email to Brown

I just wrote:

Dear Mayor Brown,

I am writing as a registered California (Democratic) voter to voice my
support of your proposal to recall the new governor if Gov. Davis loses.
But I think the campaign should not be framed in terms of "getting them
back" or "if you can do it we can do it," but rather in terms of the
corruption to the democratic process that such recalls set as precedent.
We need to point out that California's problems stem from the energy
crisis and Bushonomics and that Davis has not changed political strategy
from what he promised or departed significantly from his past term. They
may not like it, but he was re-elected. Californians have chosen the
Democrats overwhelmingly in terms of the House and Senate. Recalls
should really only be if an elected official does something illegal or
departs significantly from their campaign promises.

Thank you for hearing me out in this matter.

Sincerely,

[shance]

4. YES!!! Them there's fightin' words!

Thats what we need to hear more of from Dems!

[David__77]

5. Worst case: another election in November 2004.

That's what we could do. And don't even think an anti-abortion rights bigot Nazi fascist could win a MAJORITY mandate in this state--not going to happen.

But, the putschists won't win anyway. They're in yet another defeat. They were even convinced with utmost faith that Simon would win last time.

[not systems]

6. I'm in!!!

Where do I send a check.

[plurality]

7. this just shows what an absolute farce our democracy has become

cheer them on all you want, but this just shows that Dems can be just as vindictive and petty as Republicans. This has nothing to do with the good of California, it's bullshit sour-grapes that will only further destroy California.

[Democat]

8. Fighting for the rights of voters is sour grapes?

Letting someone steal the highest office in the state without trying to fight for what is objectively right isn't for the good of California?

That is absolute nonsense.

Democrats should do everything in their power to destroy the careers of any Republican involved in this crooked plan. By recalling whoever gets recalled, it would put the power back with the people who won the last real election and it would also show the Republicans that crime doesn't pay.

Many people were angry when they thought that Gore didn't fight as hard as he should of in 2000. Now when Davis and the California Democrats seem ready to fight just as hard and even smarter than the right wingers, some people still complain.

I guess you really can't make everyone happy.

[plurality]

11. that's not fighting for voters rights

if they wanted to do that then the DEMOCRATIC legislature would overturn the law and they could VOTE THE GUY OUT in 2006. California has survived Republican govenors before I'm sure they could manage for 3 years if one took over now.

Follow this idiotic plan and you'll have a state in disarray falling into deeper turmoil as NO ONE COULD DO ANYTHING!!!

Think with your brain for a goddamned second. What happens after the Democratic recall? Do you think the Republicans would just sit back and enjoy it? Or do we just have an endless cycle of recalls while California goes without a govenor for 50 years?

Jesus, nothing but shortsighted cheerleading here. Get a clue.

[Democat]

16. Your idea is absolutely ridiculous and beyond belief!

You are suggesting that we should reward crooked politicians for gaming the system by giving in to them and rolling over. What a horrible losing strategy and a kick in the face to voters and the very idea of democracy.

They would only get away with it until 2006?

I can't even respond to the absolute ridiculousness of that comment.

Look what Bush has done to America in 2 years, and you want to hand over California to a bunch of crooks for 3 years just because you don't want to "sink to their level" or whatever you're talking about.

Attitudes like yours are the reason this party lost in 2000 and 2002, and they may be the reason we lose in 2004.

Unless we learn to fight, we will never ever win, period.

[plurality]

22. it's legal

you're probably just jealous the democrats didn't think of it first.

I can see reason is not one of your strong suits as you compeletly neglected responding to my question about the outcome of this. all you can do is spew slogans and emotionally laden drivel. run along robot, your program is in serious danger of a divide by zero error.

[Democat]

75. Legal? Recalling the person who steals the office from Davis is legal too!

Your point is that we should allow ourselves to become punching bags for the right wingers. I'm saying it's time to punch back.

I will never agree with you that we should roll over and let them steal the highest office in California. Call me emotional, call me an idiot, but I will never believe that the people of this country are best served by the Democratic party rolling over and taking a beating.

If we truly believe in what we are fighting for, we should never allow the Republicans to use dirty tricks without making them pay for it ten times over. The only way to beat them is to fight harder and smarter than they do. You will not see me advocating anything illegal, but I think we should use the law to its fullest extent to prevent this travesty.

You seem to think that undoing the damage that the right wingers are trying to do is somehow bad. In fact, the opposite is true. By not trying to get rid of whatever right winger might steal the office, we would be allowing years of damage to be done. By fighting back right away, we could prevent further damage. Look at what Bush has done to America in the last few years. Are you willing to allow some right winger to do the same to California just so we can look like nice losers? I am not.

An immediate recall is the strategy that makes the most sense to give the governors office back to the party that the people of California voted for in the last real election, less than one year ago.

[dansolo]

59. How will the Democratic legislature

overturn the law with a Republican governor?

[okieinpain]

83. uhhh!! they started it. I say we finish it, if this goes through and

a repug is elected, they will pull this shit every where recall is an option.

[Warren Stuart]

9. And the alternative is?

Let the scumbags get away with it?

Sorry I don't share your pessismistic outlook, a taste of their own medicine is just what the doctor ordered.

[plurality]

12. Once again

They would only get away with it for 3 years until the guy is voted out in 2006. Meanwhile the legislature can remove the stupid rule. Or would you rather California be permanently sans govenor because the D's and R's are playing endless recall?

[ibegurpard]

17. Oh the legislature can just remove it can they?

That usually requires a governor's OK. Do the democrats have a veto-proof majority?
And I can just picture all of the wingnuts screaming to high heaven about how the legislature is trying to subvert democracy if they EVER tried to do that. There needs to be a provision for recall...I don't know the specifics of California's but it is obvious it needs to be modified. You think that would happen with a Republican governor who benefitted from the current mess?
If you think for one minute that continuing to play "nice" when the other side is kicking us in the teeth is going to get us anywhere then you are part of the problem with the Democratic party.

[Warren Stuart]

18. No governor?

I'm sure there will be a governor, a Democrat won last time and should stay in office untill the next election.

You got a problem with that?

[plurality]

20. so what happens..

when the democrats recall the republican governor, then the republicans recall the newly installed democrat, then the democrats recall him/her? seeing a pattern here?

[JoFerret]

27. Only three years????

look what devasting damage BushCo has done in less. Let's hope the very threat of such electoral retaliation,troublemaking and revenge starts to make people re-think this whole mess and the anti-democratic coup that Issa started up. (Repeal Proposition 13 while you are at it.) The trouble is - efforts like the recall do their damage anyway. They bring the very process into disrepute thereby accelerating the sense of cynicism and despair on which Republican stooges and fascists thrive.

[w4rma]

10. The Recall LAW needs to be recalled

And that's the point of this Democratic retalitory threat.

On and on and on and on, back and forth. The recall law is obviously ridiculous.

[plurality]

13. very true

but continuing the nonsense is no way to accomplish it, the legislature could get rid of it now if they wanted to. no good will come of this. it will simply alientate more voters who already think our government is filled with clowns and prima donnas.

[atreides1]

21. Sometimes

you have to get down in the mud and fight just as dirty as your opponent. Would you give an enemy time to consolidate his position,
because if you do then you might as well shoot yourself in the head and save your opponent the bullet.



"IT IS BETTER TO DIE ON YOUR FEET, THEN TO LIVE ON YOUR KNEES"

[plurality]

23. so this is war is it?

and they're the enemy huh? well why are we wasting our time with votes and petitions and stuff? that shit's for pussies. if we're fighting a war then we need to break out the guns and bombs and shit! /sarcasm

silly me, I thought we were actually doing this for the good of the country and the lives of our citizens.

[w4rma]

28. democracy = war

Sort of.

Democracy is an alternative to war. It's war without (as much) death and destruction.

Wars can be fought for the benefit of countries and people (American Revolutionary War, American Civil War). Democracy can be fought for the benefit of countries and people. (Of course, both can be and are fought *against* countries and people, too)

What the California Democratic Party is doing here is showing why the recall law needs to be recalled for the good of California and the United States of America.

[plurality]

32. I think the people of California

can figure out that the recall law needs to be repealed/changed without a tit-for-tat recall war that ensures the California government is in a constant state of chaos that ensures none of the major problems of that state get dealt with.

[mitchtv]

50. not if it means waiting to 2006

you wanna lose your 8 hr Day? overtime? pay hey for some of us this is real. Let them Know that they can't game the system.

[Frances]

30. Give me a break

So a bully comes and takes your lunch money and you just say, "Fine. What time should I give it to you tomorrow?"

[plurality]

33. no

you ensure he doesn't do it again, but kicking some other kids ass and taking his money definitely isn't the right way to do it.

[mbperrin]

36. What OTHER kids' ass?

We're kicking the bully! And hopefully not only is not going to get our lunch money, he'll get the idea that this is not a particularly good way to get anyone's lunch money!

When I vote this time, I'm taking a video camera and a stout walking stick. And yes, I do think that they may be needed. Some Florida type "suit" gets in my way, well...knowledge knot, anyone?

[plurality]

37. so while you and everyone

fight for two years over this stupid recall shit, who actually runs California? Who deals with the fucked up budget? Who makes sure state employees continue to have jobs? Who makes sure that needed state services are funded? Or does all that go to the background while these pathetic 'school yard bully' games are played?

[Monte Carlo]

39. In a word, yes.

It is unfortunate, but the elected officials are going to have to deal with the problem. Like it or not, the recall of Gray Davis is an issue. There is no way around it, only through. All of your questions must be delegated to subordinates.

[mbperrin]

41. Who's doing those things now? NOBODY

The fucking repubs have dicked up everything to make this a fight. When someone is clubbing you in the head, don't admire his bat or his style. Take it away from him and beat him with it!

Then use it in a nice BBQ later, when we can get all the things you want done done.

They won't get done with a Repub gov (you think the last energy fucking was good? wait for their next chance! They learned a lot about hiding those looping transactions to turn controlled power into FUCKING MIGHTY MONEY).

Or maybe God, if there is one, will be kind enough to hit ISSA with a bolt!

[Frances]

31. Give me a break

So a bully comes and takes your lunch money and you just say, "Fine. What time should I give it to you tomorrow?"

[Monte Carlo]

38. This is NOT sour grapes.

Sour grapes is about rationalization, this is about turning the tables. An action demands a reaction.

The fact that we fight with procedure and not guns is a good sign.

[mitchtv]

48. so what? lie down and roll over?

never

[neuvocat]

57. Where do you see the harm in this? Tell us.

I guess you would prefer a vindictive and mean-spirited man to stay in our capital and just let him roll over everyone in the process of getting there.

You know it sure sounds familliar.

[TahitiNut]

62. If Davis wins (and the recall fails) ....

... there's nothing to stop the same people from doing it again in 6 months. Indeed, if Davis loses and someone other than a Republican gets the plurality vote, there's still nothing to stop people from doing it again in 6 months.

If a court challenge of the California Recall Election Law (and the associated provisions in the California Constitution) does not succeed (or even get filed) on the basis of 'Equal Protection' arguments, I see very little hope for democracy in California. When you consider that Davis might get millions more votes (votes against the recall) than any candidate on the 'replacement' ballot question and still "lose" to that candidate, I cannot see anything 'democratic' about it. It's already a farce.

[tomp]

84. what's your proposal to deal with the issue? nt

[trackfan]

19. AMEN!

I was hoping for this. If they pull it off, throw the goddamn thing right back at them!!! I will go out of my way to sign every recall petition against every Republican.

[leQ]

24. you don't mess around...

with willie brown!

[Randi_Listener]

25. E-mail sent!

Thanking the mayor for the move. :thumbsup:

[joefree1]

26. I'm in, let's make all recalls look crazy and stupid

One recall deserves another. Maybe Californians will wake up and change this stupid law. I'll donate to pay the signature gatherers too.

[preocupied]

29. This is why I said Willie Brown needs to run for Governor...

Gotta like Willie.....

[liberalpragmatist]

34. NO NO NO

We've all been denouncing the recall procedure itself and saying what a farce this whole thing is. There is no way we could possibly do this and still hold any kind of principles. This would be MASSIVE HYPOCRICY.

The recall procedure is what needs to go, or at least be reformed to make it only when there is actual corruption and misconduct, not just mismanagement. The essence of our democracy is fixed terms. Davis' only hope of remaining as governor is to convince a majority of Californians that the recall itself (or at least as it's being used: to remove a governor just for being unpopular) is wrong -- that's why there are many republicans who have said they'll vote NO -- they view this as unfair.

This is an invitation to chaos and if we were to recall a Repub successor, Calif. democrats could not claim to be any better than the Repubs.

If it's a Repub, so be it -- let him or her become even more unpopular than davis and crush them in '06 on a platform that includes major political reforms to reform or do away w/ the recall and improve politics in california as a whole -- politically, the state's become a joke.

No more recalls.

[Randi_Listener]

35. You're wrong.

We can't afford to have a repuke as governor of California during the 2004 election cycle. Living in Florida, we know what it's like to have a governor that fixes national elections. If a repuke is in office in November 2004, the fucking fix is in. It happened in Florida and it will happen with the 54 electoral votes in California.

[plurality]

40. sadly l-pragmatist

you'll find that quality lacking in many here. only mindless cheerleading. sound reasoning is wasted on these people.

[ibegurpard]

42. Respectfully, you are mistaken

Some of the comments in this thread have been soundly reasoned. While you might not AGREE with some of the conclusions, your comment is wrong. I assume that the only thing that would indicate SOUND REASONING to you would be a conclusion the same as yours?

[FubarFly]

47. The problem presented to us is the Gray Davis recall.

The solutions offered so far are:

A: Fight fire with fire. Take the fight to the thugs, don't let them get away with it.

B: Sit back and take it. What harm can a Republican governer possibly do?

Whereas solution A may be impractical in the short term, it at least offers a pro-active attempt to produce change. If you recall the recall you guarantee a change in the recall law. It may not be the prettiest way to right an injustice, but at least it is an attempt.


Solution B however, is untenable under any circumstances. You can't reward thugs for dirty behaviour. Period. You'll just encourage them. Has Florida taught you nothing? If you don't like solution A, then think of another method. I'm sure many of us here will be glad to listen.

[ProfessorGAC]

77. WOW! Kind of Full Of Yourself, Aren't We?

They don't agree with you, so reason is wasted on these folks.

You need to look up the word "hubris".
The Professor

[xchrom]

79. how quaint

an attempted spanking -- by someone who's lost the argument.
oooh -- that might hurt if you were right.

[aquart]

46. Honey, as long as they see it works for them, they'll do it.

The day after it works for us, they'll make damn sure the whole law is repealed.

Sometimes, you just have to swallow the medicine.

[Frances]

56. You expressed my thoughts much better than I did

I am an ardent admirer of Martin Luther King, Jr. He did not believe in violence, but he definitely believed in standing up for one's self.

I don't think we would be having this recall effort in California (the state's problems are because of the Bush economy and the rape of the state by the Bush's Enron-type friends) if we Democrats had stood up to the Republicans in Florida in 2000. The Republicans flew people into Florida to scream at the people counting the chads. We Democrats were too dignified to have our supporters scream at the screamers.

[mitchtv]

never

let those creeps in . If it wa six months or less , I could agree with you but, no any puke must go. Especially if Davis gets more votes but not 51% and the puke gets way less . Are you kidding me?

[mitchtv]

52. never

let those creeps in . If it wa six months or less , I could agree with you but, no any puke must go. Especially if Davis gets more votes but not 51% and the puke gets way less . Are you kidding me?

[mitchtv]

53. never

let those creeps in . If it wa six months or less , I could agree with you but, no any puke must go. Especially if Davis gets more votes but not 51% and the puke gets way less . Are you kidding me?

[mitchtv]

54. never

let those creeps in . If it wa six months or less , I could agree with you but, no any puke must go. Especially if Davis gets more votes but not 51% and the puke gets way less . Are you kidding me?

[mitchtv]

55. never

let those creeps in . If it wa six months or less , I could agree with you but, no any puke must go. Especially if Davis gets more votes but not 51% and the puke gets way less . Are you kidding me?

[TahitiNut]

78. "The essence of our democracy is fixed terms"?????

Huh? Gee, and I thought it was the vote, equal protection, and universal suffrage. Color me amazed ... or something. :puke:

[Devil Dog Dem]

43. Is it possible to make Willie Brown Dem Senate Leader?

The Speaker of the House needn't be an elected member, so what is preventing Brown from being Dem Leader in the Senate? We need someone with his balls!

[shanti]

70. are you a californian?

willie has been around.

[David__77]

81. John Burton is very good.

He's Senate leader now. After he's termed out, Sen. Sheila Kuehl should become leader.

[robbedvoter]

44. As I posted BEFORE Willie Brown, very few signatures will be needed

since a replacement will win with a very small percentage (due to the crowded field). Probably can be collected over a weekend.

[TahitiNut]

61. The number of signatures required on a recall petition

... is 12% of the number who voted in the last election for that office. There're some who're quibbling whether, for the Governor, that would mean the recall election or the same general election (2002). It seems pretty clear to me that it'd mean the recall election itself. If predictions of low turnout come true, that'd mean a 'retaliatory' recall petition would need fewer signatures.

[aquart]

45. Love it.

Of course, he got the idea from me. Telepathically.

[neuvocat]

49. FUCK YEAH!!!!

Now this is the kind of balls the democrats need to have. Brown for President!!!

[Pastiche423]

58. Nope

While I finally have reason to agree w/Da Mayor, no way should he be granted anymore power.

I'll never forgive him for the way he has treated the homeless.

In this instance, though, he is right on!

[tlb]

63. Suicidal insanity.

First, to repeat yet one more time, recall campaigns such as this have occurred over thirty times in the last century. Both parties have used them against the other. I doubt a single governor hasn't faced one.

The difference in the Davis recall is not the Issa money, it is the governor who has managed to turn off 75 % of the electorate. If Davis was seen to be doing an acceptable job, the recall would have disappeared largely unnoticed like the ones before it.

In other words, Californians , democrats included, aren't doing this FOR the republicans or for the democrats. Without that same negative perception of the new governor, Willie's idea becomes the same partasin witchhunt most on this board has generally called the current campaign.

I can't see how the Ca dem party can gain by gleefully performing what it has for weeks called an abuse of the law and the public. Following the refusal to offer the public a palatable electable alternative to Davis, you have to wonder if the Ca party is TRYING to destroy itself.

[mbperrin]

64. Link for that number of recalls?

I'll get one.
http://www.cbs2chicago.com/topstories/topstories_story_205150205.html
Only the second governor in the history of the nation to face recall.

Now let's call it what it is - a really one-of-a-kind grab by losers to upend an election only decided months ago. If we let them do this, and they've already gotten away with Florida, and I suspect Georgia (do you really think folks think Max Cleland is a traitor?), then why don't we just let Issa and the rest of those motherfuckers eat our children, grilled or broiled, their choice?

These goddamned Republicans are something - in Texas, Tom DeLay comes in from the feds to redistrict a state which was redistricted last year, because Perry (yes, the current gov) didn't think it was worth putting on the ballot. The last time a fed told Texans to do something, a little thing called the Civil War occurred (come to think of it, Abe was a Republican, too!) and although Texas lost, it wasn't because we didn't fight!

It's one thing to be bluffed, another to get whipped. I may get whipped by these assholes, but they'll have to do it. I won't just roll over for their rotten motherfucking souls' desires.

[tlb]

71. Fine, here's your link

Your link was to the last SUCCESSFUL recall of a governor in the US. It didn't speak to the number of times it's been tried in California where it has never succeeded at all before now.



http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/recall/v-pr/story/7010425p-7625759c.html

Sacramento Bee:
Thirty-one prior attempts to recall a California governor have failed, and experts say perhaps $2 million is needed to pay for professional signature-gatherers, mailers and advertisements in order to qualify for election. Issa last week spent $100,000 to establish Rescue California, a committee to handle such paid efforts.
----

Issa's money would just as well be burned in a bonfire if Davis had the support of Californians. He doesn't.

The California party had ample time to recruit a strong substitute to hold the governorship. They didn't.

I see no point in blaming the republicans for the incompetence and shortsightedness of the Ca dem party leadership. This is a self inflicted wound they seem determined to make even worse.

[uhhuh]

65. This is different

This recall effort is being fueled by the media is the attempt to create a story and serve their repuke masters. In the L.A. area, there is an immense amount of airtime being given to those who support the recall and virtually none being given to anti-recall folks.

On KFI-640 AM,a very popular talk radio station,which programs to the sort of center and right, they have a blatant 2 hour infomercial for the recall on every week on Sundays, where a couple of giggly talking heads openly mock the governor and fawn over the potential candidates. There is no pretense of objectivity. There is another pair of radio personalities called jon and ken, who have regularly been leading the charge for the recall since the election. Local T.V. news bends over backwards to portray Davis as the entire problem with the state of the State.

This is not like other recalls because the media is treating this with all the seriousness of an episode of Survivor, and not giving any attention to the implications of this event as anything other than a pro wrestling match.
The disapproval of Davis was largely orchestrated by the media in order to create a stir and they have been bombarding this message day after day for months. Of course people are going to buy it eventually. They did with the chimp too.

Davis is a shitty governor, but the people of the State elected him twice. As slimy as he is, the amount of sleaze being thrown at him in an effort to build up support for the recall in itself should be enough to encourage people to support any retaliation in light of these events.

In answer to those who think that there would be endless recalls if this Dem tactic were tried, I think you are being alarmist and irrational. The people of the state would tire of this little game very quickly and demand that the recall rules be changed before the second ballot was finalized, or maybe right after the second election. If people are worried that no state business would get done, remember that we do have a line of succession going to the Lt.Governor if the Governor is unable to perform his job. I'm sure his duties include executing policy in the event that the Governor is unable to do so. Bustamante is ok by me.

[Democat]

67. It's suicidal? No, suicide is letting fanatic crooks destroy your state

The only way to save the people of California from these right wing crooks is to use every legal method possible to fight a bunch of people who are using every legal (and some possibly illegal) methods to try to undo the will of the voters of California.

If Democrats don't fight back harder than the Republicans, then they will not only have lost the governorship, which they legally won in a real election less than a year ago, but they will also lose the respect of the people of California.

Anyone who wins this election other than a Democrat must be recalled immediately.

If you don't want our party to fight, then you support turning every Democrat, and democracy in California, into a loser.

[BenFranklinUSA]

80. Not Tom, Not Richard, Still Petty

:grr: When will our party rise above the pettiness? :grr:

Leadership and Good Ideas, :shrug: what happened?

[mitchtv]

82. you mean Darrell Eyesore's recall campaign , of course

.

[0rganism]

66. Bill Simon NARROWLY lost? I seem to remember a solid Davis margin...

...not to mention the total sweep of all state offices by Democrats. If that's narrow, then Gore won the 2000 presidential race by a landslide.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

69. Davis won by about 5%

He was not very popular. Many think if it had been Davis v. Riordan instead, Davis would have lost.

[Frances]

74. Republicans think rules are for the Democrats only.

They got away with Florida in 2000. They got away with redrawing the congressional map in Colorado recently (it wasn't supposed to be redone until after the next census). They are trying to do the same thing in Texas.

They got away with ads showing Max Cleland, who lost 3 limbs in Vietnam, morphing into Osama bin Ladin in the Georgia senatorial race. He lost to a man who evaded the draft. It's entirely possible that he lost that election because of Diebold voting machines.

Now the Republicans are trying to take away the governorship of California. They had hoped to defeat Gray in the last election by refusing to stop the rape of California by the energy companies. They failed, and so they are trying a recall. If we just roll over, the Republicans will continue to rob us of our votes.

I used to wonder how the rich white Southerners took away the right of African Americans to vote. Now I know. Intimidation as well as violence.

[farmboxer]

72. Good Idea!

Republicans cheat and I am so tired of it!

[not systems]

73. no reason not to fight

The CA republicans are a bad lot.

They can do alot of damage to peoples lives.

They should be fought with all available actions,
meaning law suits, recalles, and other ballot
measures.

No reason at all to play softball with them
unless you what CA flipped to red in 2004
election.

Democrats need to fight for the people at
all times. Fight on the republican's home
turf the mud.

This is why I support an new recall is Issa
or Simon get the office.

The Enron crew robbed the state and the rightwing
media pinned it on Davis.

Why should I want them get away with it?

Manners?!?

[Beetwasher]

76. Yup! Why the hell not?!

If Davis loses, the new gov. will surely have recieved far less votes...