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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 08:09 AM
Original message
Radioactive 'Hot Spots' Detected in Tokyo
Source: Wall Street Journal

By JURO OSAWA

TOKYOJapanese researchers discovered high levels of radioactive material in concentrated areas in Tokyo and Yokohama, more than 241 kilometers away from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, as increasingly thorough tests provide a clearer picture of just how far contamination has spread and accumulated after the March disaster.

In Tokyo, a sidewalk in Setagaya ward, in the western part of the city, recorded radiation levels of 2.707 microsieverts per hour, about 50 times higher than another location in Setagaya where the ward regularly monitors radiation levels.

"What's puzzling is that the levels detected on other parts of the same sidewalk were very low," said Ken Hatanaka, head of the ward's section in charge of radiation monitoring said.

SNIP...

Radioactive contamination spreads unevenly depending on wind, weather and topography, and "radioactive elements later accumulate in specific spots that tend to gather dust and rain water, such as ditches," said Akira Hanawa, the head of the Isotope Research Institute in Yokohama, which conducted the tests on the sediments collected from the rooftop.


Read more: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204002304576626700579171010.html



Even though it's not on the tee vee, it's getting obvious that the world needs to help TEPCO and Tokyo stop this three-headed meltdown. Going from the little information that does make it into print, it's likely what we haven't been told is most concerning.
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zonkers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
1. This should serve as a warning for the rest of the planet but it won't.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. especially when a corp involved in the industry also controls the message
Think: GE & NBC
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
25. Fukushima government tried to close down the reactors 6 years or so ago based on ....
Japanese scientists reporting increasing seismic activity --

the age of the reactors and the fact that they were built to withstand only

a 7.1 earthquake.

Evidently, W administration sent a team to influence them otherwise.


Here in America, we have the further insanity of Obama not only pushing more

oil drilling -- but a new generation of nuclear reactors -- !!!


We also have 103 or so nuclear reactors across America which should be shut down

considering the chaotic weather and earthquakes which Global Warming is bringing.

It takes 6 months to properly shut down a a nuclear reactor ---

1 year to shut down the Fuku nuclear reactors given their design --

and I don't know if that includes disposal of the WASTE in either case -- ???



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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
3. I highly recommend everyone check out this chart.
As an aside, are you aware that "this three-headed meltdown" is long since stopped? The three reactors are now well under 100 degrees celsius.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Impressive chart that implies size matters, except when it comes to radioactivity.
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Actually, size of dose does matter. It's called science.
And 2 microsievert dose "high" is saying that someone with $300 in the bank is "wealthy" because their money level is above zero.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. Your understanding extends to economics, too?
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Are you saying that the size of a radiation does doesn't matter? Or just snarking at
someone you seem to have a running feud with? Please let me know as your answer will impact my next reply. Thank you.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. You have to ask?
Here's where I'm coming from:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=2047270&mesg_id=2047270

My journal entries on the subject start back in March.

Feel free to post whatever you want.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. I find it better to clarify than assume that you don't know that the size of a dose matters.
I find it easier to ask and hope that you might simply reply and clarify rather than asking me to read an article or your journal. I never understand why people don't want to simply clarify. Seems odd and waste of time and energies.

Thank you for your permission to post whatever I want. Not sure why you felt the need though I am coming to the conclusion you prefer to snark than try and communicate in a positive manner.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Clarify some things for me, then...
You asked:

Are you saying that the size of a radiation does doesn't matter? Or just snarking at someone you seem to have a running feud with?

What do you mean? If you want a 'yes' or 'no' answer: Yes, I am saying even the smallest amounts of plutonium and cesium are dangerous to human health.

If you want something more nuanced, you can find my answer by my direct link to a post on DU where I make clear that even minute amounts of radiation are a hazard to human health. I also referred to my journal, where I've published about 15 articles on Fukushima.

Why do you have a problem with that?

Here are a few of my journal entries from March to make it easier to find my perspectives.

March 14:
Before and After photo show significant tsunami damage...

March 16:
On the Poet's Trail

March 17:
Helicopter pictures show devastation inside Fukushima reactor towers

March 21:
Governments Covering Up Nuclear Meltdowns for 50 Years to Protect the Nuclear Power Industry

March 23:
Surviving Chernobyl Cleaner: 'Tell The People Of Japan To Run!'

March 24:
What part of what he said wasn't true?

March 26:
First thing I'd do if I were fighting this nuclear disaster is get the Team the best gear.

March 27:
The Return of Nukespeak

March 28
TEPCO: Plutonium is not dangerous. Where's the Boss?

March 30
Toxic plutonium seeping from Japan's nuclear plant

March 31
Japan's Nuclear Rescuers: 'Inevitable Some of Them May Die Within Weeks'

March 31
Fukushima from Space

When I have more time, I'll provide links to the rest of my journal entries on the Fukushima crisis.

BTW: In going through them just now, I failed to find one instance where you replied to them. I'm sure you must have an opinion or something.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yes, small amounts of radiation can cause effects. However, larger amounts can and do have larger
effects. Compare someone who has gotten for example 1 chest x-ray with someone who was inside the Fukushima Nuke plant when it went critical. Or near Chernobyl.

Did you seriously search all you previous posts to see if I'd replied and now snark at me again? thank you for clarifying that you like to snark rather than try to communicate in a worthwhile positive manner. I don't need the rest of your links so don't bother on my account. I've read lots and have no desire to continue snark masturbation with you.

Bye.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Thank you. And thank you for your concern.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. How long do you believe it will take for that 2.707 microsieverts of radiation per hour
Edited on Wed Oct-12-11 12:52 PM by Uncle Joe
on a Tokyo sidewalk hundreds of miles from the Fukushima disaster zone to go away?

If it's on the sidewalk, couldn't it also be at that level or above in other parts of the city ie; public parks, playgrounds, bus stop benches?



In Tokyo, a sidewalk in Setagaya ward, in the western part of the city, recorded radiation levels of 2.707 microsieverts per hour, about 50 times higher than another location in Setagaya where the ward regularly monitors radiation levels.



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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. That chart is an abomination.
I waive all copyright to this chart and place it in the public domain, so you are free to reuse it anywhere with no permission necessary. (However, keep in mind that I am not a radiation expert, and this chart is intended for general public informational use only.)

SOURCE: http://xkcd.com/radiation/

PS: Thank you, Uncle Joe, for understanding that Fukushima represents a planetary health threat.
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Anyone who doubts the effects of radiation
has nor seen Carole Gallagher's book 'American Ground Zero: the Secret Nuclear War."

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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #10
29. Tokyo radiation hotspot 'not linked to Fukushima'
...

"But officials later said they were almost certain that the radiation had not come from Fukushima, after the source was traced to the basement of a nearby house, where an unknown material was being stored in old bottles in a wooden box.

...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15285843



When you look for radioactive sources, you find them.

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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. Thanks for the heads-up! I wonder what BBC editors think about this report?
Researchers call for nuclear data release

Trove of data from Fukushima and beyond could improve nuclear monitoring and benefit research.
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Brian Okamura Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. self-delete
Edited on Wed Oct-12-11 12:50 PM by Brian Okamura


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Brian Okamura Donating Member (20 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Your comment is misleading.
You said, "...are you aware 'this three-headed meltdown' is long since stopped? The three reactors are now well under 100 degrees celsius."

The reactors have cooled off because the radioactive cores have melted through their containments and are now underground, where they still emit a steady stream of radioactivity upward into the air.

In addition, there are 2000 tons of radioactive material from the spent fuel tanks still emitting deadly radiation.

That is why radioactivity is still going up as far south as Tokyo, and beyond.

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Delphinus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
28. Welcome to DU, Brian.
:hi:

And thank you for helping us understand the scenario.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
7. Believe me, If there WERE a Way to Stop It
Even Tepco would have tried it by now.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
22. They can build a drone to bomb Osama's #2 to Kingdom Come over and over and over again...
...but they can't wire up a bulldozer to run by RC?

It's just a matter of a can-do spirit, lots of cash, and a little will power.

Otherwise, it is exactly what you said, Demeter. The thing is out of our eh TEPCO's ah man's hands now.

One thing that is clear: There's going to be a lot of socialized costs associated with the solving, in both the near- and long-term.
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Downwinder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Keep the water flowing.
If it stops you have a self-powered smelter.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
8. I'm going to hell for this
but all I can think of is Homer Simpson on his way home from work, picking off that piece of glowing glop and throwing it out the car window.

While the area is hot enough that I don't think I'd want to put my vegetable pushcart right there day after day, it's not that hot. However, radiation exposure is cumulative, so even low levels of increased radiation will likely result in a few extra cancers 20 years down the road.
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plumbob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
9. Thank GAWD these were green and healthy nuclear outputs
instead of the gawdawful stuff we'd have gotten from solar panels or wind generators!!! They're SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO dangerous!


You know, my old granny was right - you CAN make a sow's ear purse from a sow's ear, but it's still a crappy purse.


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shanti Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
20. and japan is giving away 10,000 plane tickets
to have us visit?? :wow:
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Sabriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
26. Wouldn't you love to be a "winner" of one of those?
Not.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-12-11 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. the Japanese Government will have to move
to less contaminated ground
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. Oh, for crying out loud
Edited on Thu Oct-13-11 08:20 PM by Art_from_Ark
Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you personally, but as one who is actually living in Japan, and working in Tokyo, I get a little tired of the hyperbole. Tokyo is NOT contaminated by radiation. The high concentration of radiation was detected in a tiny, tiny area in Setagaya Ward/City. Further investigation revealed that the radiation was likely emanating from several bottles that were found to be highly radioactive and likely contained radium.

So no, this is not originating from the Fukushima reactor, and the Japanese government will stay where it is.

http://sankei.jp.msn.com/affairs/news/111013/crm11101321420025-n1.htm
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
27. K&R
The plane tickets coming in might be free, but the ones going out might start getting expensive.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
32. Update on the Tokyo radiation
It has nothing to do with Fukushima. The radiation was coming from bottles that had been buried in the ground. Apparently, the land had originally been industrial, or medical, or maybe just vacant. The police are currently investigating the past uses of that land. At any rate, at some point in the past, someone had buried the bottles in the ground, then a house was built on the lot.
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Sabriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. Oh, come on
I'm sorry, but that's the weakest thing I've heard for a long time.
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-13-11 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Are you serious?
Edited on Thu Oct-13-11 11:47 PM by Art_from_Ark
You don't seem to know much about the situation here, in Japan, and in Tokyo. Yes, I am actually writing this from Tokyo, Japan. There is absolutely NO WAY that radiation from a nuclear reactor 150 miles away could possibly be responsible for the super high levels of radiation in this tiny part of Setagaya, just a few square meters in area, with relatively normal levels around that.

Read this article, if you can. The radioactive substance was in all likelihood radium, which is not one of the substances being released by the Fukushima complex but it is widely used in cancer treatments.

http://sankei.jp.msn.com/affairs/news/111013/crm11101321420025-n2.htm
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