Details of (Michael) Jackson charges leaked

[CShine]

According to the leaked report:


The 45-year-old pop star reportedly gave the elder boy wine to drink and on at least two occasions the child passed out. He reportedly touched the boy inappropriately after he had passed out.

He reportedly surfed the internet on a laptop computer with the boy to find images of naked women and asked him to tell people, if they asked, that they had been watching The Simpsons.

"Jackson once stood in front of them naked for a moment, as they were watching TV," Mr Katz was quoted as saying.

Mr Jackson reportedly played with a mannequin of an 8- or 9-year-old girl in a sexually suggestive manner in front of both boys.

The pop star has dismissed the allegations against him as a "big lie".

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/3644445.stm

[freetobegay]

1. ""Jackson once stood in front of them naked for a moment"

Now thats abuse on anyone!

[lalajohns]

2. lol

n/t

[truthisfreedom]

3. so there's a witness to this abuse?

michael's case will be a lot more difficult if there are two people accusing him at once over the very same incidents.

[Snoggera]

4. He reportedly touched the boy inappropriately after he had passed out.

And this is known how, exactly?

[Judi Lynn]

5. I heard this info. read this morning on ABC radio news

and it stuck with me that the info. was gained from an interview with the YOUNGER brother of the boy who was 12 years old at the time.

It connects with this from the BBC article:

According to ABC's revelations on Tuesday, the elder boy, a cancer-sufferer, cried when asked about the alleged molestation and it was mainly the younger brother who gave the psychologist details of what allegedly happened.

What person is actually going to bring two young children to his house, the elder one a cancer patient, and get them DRUNK? There are more addled people around than you'd think if you would buy that one.

Why would a perv molest a child in front of his sibling? He wasn't a family friend who would be around to threaten or intimidate them later if they told on him, remember.

Has anyone forgotten the rash of stories in California and other places when children accused their day-care providers with wild, crazy, illegal behavior towards them? It took YEARS and YEARS to get to the bottom of those stories, and many of them were COMPLETELY BOGUS.

However, this isn't a political story, or shouldn't be, unless one believes Democrats are officially responsible for Michael Jackson. Stories like this are usually outlets for outpourings of barely repressed racial hatred.

[aquart]

6. And that's the cover that's let him get away with it for decades.

And it was decades ago that my sister saw him dancing with that glove on his hand and that getup on his crotch and said, "That boy was molested."

Does a normal man talk like a child? Do what he's done in order not to see what? His father's face in the mirror?

When he talks about children, he is frighteningly abnormal. Anyone who has a healthy love for children knows what little fiends they can be, Michael talks as if they are haloed cherubs.

And if anyone has "barely repressed racial hatred," it's Michael Jackson with his bought blond children.

[Judi Lynn]

8. I admit I've seen his white glove, but I've never noticed his

crotchal area! Indeed! I often apparently forget and just look at peoples' faces.

No one has ever accused him of being normal.

What is REALLY knowm about him, after seperating gossip from actual informtion?

Most of us are actually too busy to be too aware of show business people.

[Ripley]

9. Have to agree.

Let's imagine if it was Barry Manilow who acted this way and said he liked young children sleeping in his bed. Anyone who thinks MJ's behavior towards children is anywhere near appropriate for a 45 year old man doesn't have good boundaries. It is not a racial thing.

And what the hell is up with the way he treats his own children? Didn't he about toss one out of the 8th floor of a hotel? Why does he dress them like the spooky children in The Others movie? Black veils over their faces? Creepy.

[Ediacara]

17. How do you figure?

However, this isn't a political story, or shouldn't be, unless one believes Democrats are officially responsible for Michael Jackson. Stories like this are usually outlets for outpourings of barely repressed racial hatred.

How is this news race-based? If Garth Brooks had been accused of molesting drunk children with cancer.... after having gone through 14 plastic surgeries (including changing the color of your skin), dangling your baby off of a balcony, installing a roller coaster in your backyard, being $26M in debt, and being just generally odd for the last 25 years..... you can bet that the media feeding frenzy would be just as intense.

NOT that I am saying Jackson is guilty or innocent, I obviously wasn't there nor am I a juror, and can't know either way. I'm just saying that this calibre of story against this calibre of celebrity is going to be a media feeding frenzy no matter what race the accused is.

[Judi Lynn]

19. Maybe you would see it differently

if you reminded yourself this is a Presidential election year, this is a political message board, and BOTH Michael Jackson and Garth Brooks have very little to do with the U.S.'s ability to lose a group of psychopaths who seized power in 2000.

[Ediacara]

20. But what does it have to do with race?

I don't get it..

ON EDIT: Yes I agree, it's a supreme distraction, I just don't understand your contention that the media frenzy is race related.

[Laughing Mirror]

7. This report doesn't jibe with the last report I read about this

The "12-year old boy" had turned 14 in the last report I read. Michael was to have fondled the boy when he was 12. This BBC article has frozen that 12-year old's age. Just how long must this boy remain 12 years old? Until the requisite guilty verdict is handed down?

Shades of the Oscar Wilde "trial" more than 100 years ago.

Plus ça change ...

On edit, compare with the Smoking Gun's debunking of the charges:

DECEMBER 9--A confidential investigation by Los Angeles police and child welfare officials concluded earlier this year that allegations Michael Jackson sexually abused a cancer-stricken boy were "unfounded," according to an internal government memo obtained by The Smoking Gun.

The probe's findings were based, in large part, on interviews with the alleged victim, his two siblings, and the boy's mother. According to the memo, when the child was questioned in February by a social worker assigned to the Sensitive Case Unit of L.A.'s Department of Children & Family Services (DCFS), he "denied any form of sexual abuse" by Jackson and said that he never "slept in the same bed as the entertainer." While not specifically named in the DCFS memo, the 45-year-old Jackson is referred to repeatedly as "the entertainer."

The memo notes that the boy, now 14, and his 12-year-old brother--who also denied sexual abuse--expressed "a fondness for the entertainer and stated they enjoyed visiting his home, where they would often ride in the park, play video games, and watch movies." The pair's sister, now 17, told a social worker that she accompanied the boys on "sleepovers at the entertainers home," but had "never seen anything sexually inappropriate between her brothers and the entertainer."

The children's mother told investigators that Jackson was "like a father to the children and a part of her family." While acknowledging that her son "has slept in the same room as the entertainer," the woman claimed "they did not share a bed. The entertainer would sleep on the floor," according to the November 26 memo.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/dcfsmemo1.html

[patcox2]

13. Shades of Oscar Wilde how? Oscar Wilde was guilty.

I mean, I think the law was wrong, but Oscar Wilde definitely did violate the law, he was guilty, he was not railroaded, nor was he persecuted. You seem to forget that Wilde brought the prosecution upon himself. The father of his lover accused him of being gay. It was true, but nevertheless Wilde brought a slander suit against the man. I mean, that just ain't right, here is Wilde bringing a legal action based on an absolute bald lie, he accused a man of slander when the man was telling the truth. The only reason Wilde was ever prosecuted was because he lost the slander suit on the basis of a "truth" defense (its not slander if its true). The authorities then had little choice but to prosecute (otherwise they were quite happy with a "don't ask, don't tell" attitude.)

Wilde was certainly the victim of an unjust law, that is absolutely true. But he was in no way the victim of a witchhunt or a kangaroo court. The victorian buggery laws were almost never enforced. He forced the authorities to prosecutre him by bringing a baseless slander suit. I see no similarities to Jackson whatsoever.

[Laughing Mirror]

14. Janet Maslin in NY Times sees similarities

The man was such a celebrity that he lived in a kind of Neverland. He fancied young lads and couched his overtures to them in terms of friendship and generosity. He did not foresee that he might run afoul of the law and wind up ensnared in a public relations nightmare. He seems genuinely to have believed that his art and fame would keep the world at bay.

The story of his collapse is an occasion "to see how little has changed over a century whenever fame, sex, pride and libel are shaken up into their intoxicating cocktail of human weakness," Merlin Holland, Wilde's only grandson, writes in "The Real Trial of Oscar Wilde." "The outcome is as predictably fascinating for the onlookers as it is invariably disastrous for the participants." And it prompts Mr. Holland to ask what any reader of this transfixing, better-than-Court-TV transcript will also wonder, "Why on earth did you do it?" Why did Wilde set in motion his own downfall?

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/15/books/15MASL.html?ei=5070&en=f82053303ec47fd0&ex=1082606400&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1082511128-apGz0jOIXKMXgNsBLf2zqw

[sandnsea]

10. What bad thing has Michael done?

If these allegations are false, can somebody tell me any other bad thing Michael has done? Not weird or different, bad. Because I swear I can't think of any.

Is that the problem? We just can't stand to have anything truly honest and decent in this country, or in the world. We have to tear it down because otherwise we'd have to look at the way we behave a little more closely?

[Laughing Mirror]

11. Well, he did put out a song and an album that was called "Bad"

That's one bad thing.

[nonconformist]

21. Well, there is the fact that he settled a similar case for millions

I know that case never came to trial nor were any charges filed, but to settle for millions suggests he was, frankly, guilty of that.

Now besides that, it's mostly been one experiment after the other in extreme weirdness - and YES, I do think that a 45 year old man sleeping with young boys that aren't related to him in his bed is WEIRD and inappropriate. Some people are willing to accept that it's "normal" because Michael is so eccentric - but if this were any other grown man, it would be looked upon with great skepticism.

[sandnsea]

24. Allegations in general

I meant all of them, not just this specific case. Because otherwise, I can't think of a single case where anybody has said Michael cheated them, hurt them, or had done anything otherwise illegal or immoral. Well, except Paul McCartney wants "Yesterday" back.

[Jesus H. Christ]

25. The settlement suggests he was guilty?

It also suggests the "victim" was lying. If your kid was molested would you settle out of court for cash and drop the charges?

[nonconformist]

26. I don't presume to know what someone would do in that situation

Getting millions of dollars is life changing for the vast majority of people. Now, if it were my child I'd probably end up in jail for murder, so it's kind of moot. But honestly, you don't know what anyone will do until presented with the options.

Now, don't get me wrong - I feel that Michael is generally misunderstood. But I also think that he has some serious emotional problems and it wouldn't be out of left field if that has led to inappropriate behavior from time to time. More than one child has accused him over time - so yes, it does send up flags for me. I was abused as a child, so therefore I tend to believe that the majority of children wouldn't lie about something like this. I wasn't believed as a child, and that pain still haunts me.

My opinion - Michael truly doesn't think he's harming these children in any way. To him, he's just another immature curious boy playing with his friends. I don't think he's a devious man at heart. But I think he's a very troubled man.

[Gman]

12. Why does this sound strangely juvenile:

"He reportedly surfed the internet on a laptop computer with the boy to find images of naked women and asked him to tell people, if they asked, that they had been watching The Simpsons."

and

"The pop star has dismissed the allegations against him as a 'big lie'."

The first sounds like something you would make up to tell your parents when you where a teenager. The "big lie", coming from Jackson, also sounds juvenile.

Maybe the Jackson's insane and actually has the mind of a 12 year old.

[gate of the sun]

15. if they were passed out how did they know

they were being touched inappropriatly? HOw old were these boys?

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stuckinthebush]

18. Help me out here...

why is CShine a jerk for posting this story?

I'm not making the connection.

[dfong63]

22. the evidence seems weak

and this family seems like a bunch of professional victims.

[truthisfreedom]

23. is rove in charge of these leaks? why is it that the michael jackson stuff

is always trotted out when bushco is in deep doodoo?

[Piperay]

27. If the kid was passed out then

how did he know he was touched inappropriately??? :crazy: