Police Guard 'Was Meant To Be On Island'

[Bosonic]

Source: Sky News

A police guard had been due to be on the Norwegian island where a gunman massacred at least 86 people but detectives do not know where he was, they reveal.

"There was supposed to be a police officer there," acting police chief Sveinung Sponheim told a news conference, adding that it is unclear where he was.

He also said a British police expert is helping the investigation into Friday's twin attacks that killed at least 93 people as part of cooperation with foreign forces.

"We have received help from the Metropolitan police in London by a criminal technician expert," Mr Sponheim said.

Read more: http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Norway-Attacks-Police-Guard-Was-Due-On-Utoya-Island-Cops-Admit-As-Breivik-Admits-Killings/Article/201107416036361?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_16036361_Norway_Attacks%3A_Police_Guard_Was_Du

[jpak]

1. Maybe the gun nut killed him first

n/t

[Hassin Bin Sober]

3. I hope, for the cop's sake, he wasn't fucking off somewhere.

On the other hand, he could be dead.

[Xithras]

45. Norwegian police don't carry guns or tasers.

So, yes, any police officer on the island would have likely been among the first people he targeted. A Norwegian police officers only line of defense is a can of pepper spray.

Their police do have access to firearms, but they're stored in their station houses and are only pulled out when needed.

[LisaL]

56. No guns or tasers? What exactly is the logic behind that?

Doesn't that make police "sitting ducks?" What chance does someone has against a man armed to the teeth?

[Xithras]

57. It's very unusual for them to need firearms.

Unlike the U.S., where arresting a gun-toting bad guy is a daily occurrence, the Norwegian police only rarely come up against criminals who are heavily armed. There's no point in them carrying guns. Remember, this is a nation with so little crime that they don't even have an equivalent to the Secret Service...their Prime Minister regularly walks out of his office alone and unaccompanied, and walks down the street to grab lunch. Any Norwegian can stop him and chat with him on the street. It's a totally different society than what we're used to dealing with. When serious crimes do occur, the patrol officers simply hang back and radio the crime in. They have weapons in their station house, and their backup will arrive with whatever weapons they need.

They aren't the only country to do this either. England, Ireland, Iceland, and a bunch of other countries are patrolled by unarmed officers (firearms are either centrally stored or are reserved for "special" units of some sort). A bunch of other nations (New Zealand comes to mind, though there are many more) prohibit police officers from carrying firearms on their person, but do place them in secured cases in the vehicle so they can be quickly retrieved if needed.

[jakeXT]

2. no cop, no heli, no boat

Norway Attack: 90 minute police delay gave killer time to lure some to their deaths

Inept Norweigan cops couldn't locate a helicopter or a boat, allowing the gunman to shoot down his victims for 90 minutes before help arrived.

By that time, the mass murderer in a police uniform had methodically slaughtered 85 victims.

..

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/2011/07/24/2011-07-24_cop_delay_gave_him_90_minutes_to_kill_maniac_lured_some_to_their_death_others_ra.html?r=news

[snagglepuss]

8. Their incompetence defies belief, utterly. nt

[kestrel91316]

10. Love how you, too, are swiftly jumping all over the Norwegians without

having firsthand knowledge of all the facts.

You folks who hate the Norwegians for their freedoms (ie liberal social policies) are really letting your masks slip.

[snagglepuss]

12. What a joke. I'm probably more far left and more supportive

of liberal social policies than 99% of Democrats; your observations about me are completely unfounded. As for the police, one doesn't need any further information than that they had no means of getting to an island when the calls came in from an island, to conclude that their competence is in question. And given the fact that an officier was meant to be on the island but wasn't also speaks to incompetence.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[snagglepuss]

17. I've travelled extensivley and I know damn well that Norway isn't some

dim-wtted banada republic. It is incomprehensible that police anywhere in this day and age aren't aware that terrorists often plan several events at the same time to create chaos so that having plans in place to deal with this eventualiy is critical. A terrorist event ought not have come as a surprise to Norwegian police at this point of time as Islamists have been vowing revenge for efforts by the Norwegian government to deport the Islamist cleric.


For police to respond to a crime without any means to getting to the crime scene to it is ludicrious. Equally ludicrious is to defend that sort of incompetence.

[guruoo]

25. It was either incompetence, or the

killer(s) had help on the inside. Seems like an inordinate number of screwups here for a country
that had been alert to the ongoing terrorist threats.

[jakeXT]

22. Kicking the CIA and Co. out would be a start

http://www.tv2nyhetene.no/innenriks/dette-er-overvaakings-saken-3335941.html

[defendandprotect]

58. We need that in English ... !! But, Thank you and I agree --

[Hawkowl]

31. The bomb was obviously a diversion

It was set off to draw away the police. And yes, most countries aren't batshit crazy paranoid police fanatics like Amerikans.

[Lars77]

39. Are you aware of how many lakes there are in Norway?

Do you think the police has boats on every one of them?

We are a country the size of the United Kingdom with the population of South Carolina.

[snagglepuss]

42. The SWAT team knew the crime was taking place on an island. What was

their plan? Were they just planning to drive to the dock and wait for something to pass by? It makes no sense to go to a crime scene on a island and have no way to get to the island.

[Lars77]

43. Maybe they were gambling on comandeering something when they got there.

I don't know to be honest. What i do know is that our police have less resources than US police.

[PavePusher]

61. There are plenty of areas of the U.S. that have police response time measured...

in large chunks of an hour, or longer.

This is not always, or even frequently, due to imcompetence.

[guruoo]

29. I say a human being is incompentent, ergo,

I must hate the human race for it's freedoms.

[sudopod]

32. Come on, man, I'm sure the critics have all played enought CounterStrike to know all about it. nt

[indurancevile]

23. you should question things if it defies belief. oslo is on the water, but

the police couldn't find a boat?

i'd bet there's a harbor police.

suspicious or erroneous reporting.

[Garbo 2004]

27. From map doesn;t appear lake with island is directly connected to Oslo by water. nt

[indurancevile]

30. it's in a fyord 19 miles away. or more like ten miles, if you go to the base of the fyord.

i'm saying the police have boats, & there are plenty of boats in the area.

http://www.distance-calculator.co.uk/world-distance-calc-maps.php?town1=Utoeya%20Island&town2=Oslo&state1=Norway&state2=Norway

[oldbanjo]

28. I don't understand anyone saying that,

I've traveled to a lot of Countries and have only been in one that goes all out to protect their kids. That's israel, if there's a bus load of kids there's a guard. At a recreation area there would be many fences with many guards. It's like being in a prison. This could happen in almost any Country.

[riverwalker]

60. "incompetence"

would be insisting it was the act of muslim terrorists, seems to me. Just sayin'

[kestrel91316]

9. Unless you were there and know all the facts firsthand, I think you are

out of line to criticize so vehemently. Hindsight is always 20-20.

Guess you probably just hate the Norwegians for their freedoms and let the mask slip a bit there, eh?

[LisaL]

11. You must have not noticed that everything in the post is a direct

quote from the article.

[jpak]

19. The gun nut blew up the Prime Minister's office and created a diversion

that tied up Oslo security - and he gained access to the island in a cop uniform.

The Norwegian's response was far better than say George W. Bush's response to the 9/11 attacks when he just sat there like a dumbass for half an hour before he skedaddled to a "secure location".

and the 9/11 attacks took more than 90 minutes to unfold

and killed a lot more people

nice try - but still FAIL

yup

[jakeXT]

21. Did I say something about Jens Stoltenberg ? The 911 comparison is good

Reminds me of the drills going on that day.

A SWAT team dispatched to the killing field on Utoya island about 50 minutes after the first report of gunfire went by car because their helicopter wasn't on standby, said Police Chief Sveinung Sponheim.

At Langley Air Force Base in Virginia, one of the pilots that will take off to defend Washington in response to the terrorist attacks (see (9:25 a.m.-9:30 a.m.) September 11, 2001) asks to be removed from “alert” status later this morning, so he and another pilot can participate in a training mission. Being on “alert” means that a pilot’s fighter jet is kept on the runway, armed, fueled up, and ready to take off within minutes if called upon.

http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?day_of_9/11=complete_911_timeline_training_exercises&timeline=complete_911_timeline

[aquart]

46. 911 is our emergency number. 9/11/2001 is the date of our attack.

[jakeXT]

49. The helicopter crew was on vacation, according to Gjengedal in Spiegel(German)

The Oslo police helicopter was not operational until later that day.

But Oslo police chief of staff Johan Fredriksen told NRK that having a helicopter available would not have made a difference because it would have been used for surveillance rather than to transport the Delta force.

http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/europe/news/article_1652996.php/Norwegian-police-counters-criticism-of-response-to-shooting


Der einzige Überwachungshubschrauber der Polizei war für einen schnellen Flug nach Utøya nicht einsetzbar, weil das gesamte Personal Urlaub machte.
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,776401,00.html

[jwirr]

24. Or when he ignored the warning note Condi took to him when he was

vacationing in Texas..

[guruoo]

26. The bombing served as a distraction, but I doubt he planned it solely for that purpose.

I'm betting he thought of the bombing first.

[Lars77]

40. He rehearsed the attack several times, including timing the driving distance to the island. nt

[guruoo]

41. Hadn't heard that one. nt

[caseymoz]

33. In all fairness, how often have the faced something like this?

Norway must have only a fraction of the crime rate the US does (I haven't checked), and the crime it does have, I believe, is mostly the non-violent sort. The last time they had a shooting with this many casualties was probably World War II, and that wasn't a matter of police work.

So, of course they are caught flat-footed (no pun intended) by this. They've had no practice. I'm thinking their police force is probably very small, too. The only way they could be prepared for this would be to drill for it. It's hard to take drills seriously, though, when really, this could just as well not happened for another lifetime.

And as I remember, 9/11 made our law enforcement and intelligence communities look like rank amateurs, too. Learn something from that.

[Lars77]

38. The police in the countryside was respondig to a major bomb attack on the countrys government

So they were kind of busy dealing with this:

?w=1200&h=800

[Ian David]

4. Maybe this is where the shooter GOT the police uniform FROM. n/t

[LisaL]

5. Could they locate this cop at all? He could have been killed

first and his uniform stolen.

[jakeXT]

6. He was in police gear before

Breivik, a handsome 32-year-old Norwegian with blue eyes and a short crop of blonde hair, arrived at the lakeside pier dressed as a Norwegian police officer.
...
He flashed his ID — fake, but good enough to fool the security guards at the lake. And they wave him in. "He gets out of the car and shows ID, says he's sent there to check security, that that is purely routine in connection with the terror attack (in Oslo)," Simen Braenden Mortensen, one of the camp guards, told the daily Verdens Gang. "It all looks fine, and a boat is called and it carries him over to Utoeya. A few minutes passed, and then we heard shots," he said.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2084835,00.html#ixzz1T2skZ4wz

[LisaL]

7. Thanks.

So where was that policeman that was supposed to be there, then?

[Lasher]

20. I was wondering that too.

But since we dare wonder such a thing, it means we hate Norwegians for their freedoms.

[snagglepuss]

13. How does Brevik's being in uniform exonerate the police?

[jakeXT]

14. I was answering Ian David

who was speculating, that he killed the police officer on the island and took his uniform. But because he was already dressed, I think it's highly unlikely the uniform of the officer supposed to be there.

[KittyWampus]

34. Wait- they boated him over? With that much ammunition? WTF?

[caseymoz]

35. Might have killed the officer before he arrived.

Otherwise, wouldn't camp security question the double-teaming of police? Especially when it's also someone they've never seen before?

The fact that the guy hasn't shown up indicates the officer is either dead or he's hiding out. They'll find out soon either way.

[Taverner]

16. I immidiately feared the worst

Something straight out of a movie - psychopath kills cop, takes his uniform...

[War Horse]

18. The police officer was hired as a guard, paid by the organizer

Off duty, plain clothes, unarmed. It was reported earlier that he's been killed, apparently one of the first victims.

I can only find links in Norwegian, but this was reported on Norwegian TV earlier.

Something seems lost in translation here.

[caseymoz]

36. Thank you.

That explains it very well. Come to think of it, it would be terribly odd to have a police officer on duty at the camp.

[Lars77]

37. The Cop is DEAD. He was in plainclothes with no weapons, was off duty and is now dead.

Show some respect.

[Downwinder]

47. He was Crown Princess Mette-Marit's stepbrother.

[TorchTheWitch]

62. respect?

This is the DU - cop hating central. Always has been.

[defendandprotect]

44. hmm....

[snooper2]

53. That's all you got right now?

Come on, you have to be able to tie this to something that's tied to something that's tied to JFK...

[Lars77]

48. More info on the policeman and his death.

He is indeed the steph brother of our crown princess. He was 51 years old and worked for the police unit that deals with foreign nationals. He had worked as a guard at this convention for years. He was unarmed and in plain clothes.

Details are still unkown, but the story is that he sacrificed his life to help his ten year old son. This might be the same ten year old who has been described by other witnesses pleading for his life. The killer had just shot his father, and the kid said "You have killed my father, you should let me live". Breivik apparently couldnt pull the trigger. No word on the condition of the kid but you can imagine what it must be like seeing your father take a bullet for you.

This is the man.

[trud]

50. Lars77

Thanks for this. What a nice man. Thank God his son survived.

As to the other posters, shame on you. Not every country is an armed camp like the US. If I didn't have family here, I would long ago have moved back to my family's homeland, Denmark.

[GliderGuider]

51. My heart goes out to the man and his son.

I can't imagine being in such a situation as this man. His courage is a beacon of hope.

My heart also goes out to Norway, and especially to this man's step-sister, the crown princess. To the posters on here being suspicious and derogatory of the Norwegian police, not so much.

[defendandprotect]

59. Seemingly why he wasn't immediately identified -- off duty and working as a "guard" ...

hired by private organizers --

Very sad to hear the outcome of that day for him and his son --

Can see where the rightwing would be interested in destroying this nation --

too peaceful -- sanity and common sense seem to rule there.

By all means -- not something the rightwing can permit to stand --

A certain target for spreading their sick violence --



Another thread reports a connection to Koch Bros. T-baggers' organization

"Americans for Prosperity" and Tim Phillips who spoke to the rightwing group

the attacker belonged to.

[CreekDog]

52. Sorry to hear he was among the victims

i'm also troubled by some responses here. If there was truly a breakdown or lapse in the handling of this, we will find out --but to impugn whole categories of people over the deaths from a madman is completely unfair and disrespectful to boot.

it's not inconceivable that some of the first responders may have had family members who were victims.

Norway is a wonderfully capable and generous country, that takes better care of its citizens than ours does.

Who starves in Norway?

Who goes homeless without access to shelter in Norway?

Who goes without health care in Norway?

And what of our nation?

[jakeXT]

54. Meeting Breivik on the ferry

Monica Bosei, 45, had organised the Labour youth camp on the island for years, earning her the nickname "Mother Utoya".

According to an eyewitness, she was on the ferry that Breivik took to the island.

...

Bosei was suspicious. When the ferry arrived at Utoya, she walked directly to the main house and spoke with Trond Berntsen, a former policeman who was working as a guard at the camp. She probably wanted to share her suspicions, Sandbakken said.

Breivik trailed Bosei. He saw what was happening, took out a gun and fatally shot both, his first victims on the island, Sandbakken said.


http://english.aljazeera.net/news/europe/2011/07/201172593135976481.html

[LisaL]

55. Without being armed, that guard obviously didn't have a chance.