Obama says gay couples deserve same rights as all

[TomCADem]

Source: Associated Press

President Barack Obama praised New York state lawmakers who were debating landmark legislation Thursday to legalize gay marriage, saying that's what democracy's all about. But the president stopped short of embracing same-sex marriage himself.

"I believe that gay couples deserve the same legal rights as every other couple in this country," the president said at a fundraiser in Manhattan, his first geared specifically to the gay community. Coincidentally, the long-planned event occurred just as lawmakers in Albany were debating legislation that would make New York the sixth state to legalize gay marriage.

That served to spotlight the president's own views on same-sex marriage, a sore point with gay supporters who've otherwise warmed to him. The president has said his views are "evolving," but for now he supports civil unions, not same-sex marriage.

"Traditionally marriage has been decided by the states and right now I understand there's a little debate going on here in New York," the president said to laughter. He said New York's lawmakers are "doing exactly what democracies are supposed to do."


Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110623/ap_on_el_pr/us_obama_gay_marriage

[Newsjock]

1. Let's hear it for fierce waffling

As Americablog Gay points out tonight:

One thing I thought was very odd for this particular crowd was referring to Election Night 2008 as "a perfect night." Maybe for him, but we lost rights that night when Prop. 8 passed in California. That's far from perfect. In fact, it doesn't often happen in America.

[Firebrand Gary]

23. Think of it this way.

If McCain were elected that night we could have two more Justice Alito's on the bench. Then where would we be?

[QC]

2. well, all rights except for one rather important one. n/t

[dflprincess]

3. "Traditionally marriage has been decided by the states.."

until the Supreme Court ruled on Loving v Virginia.

[sharesunited]

8. Nice. I know that decision. It frames the civil rights struggle of our time.

Let me also recommend Shelley v. Kraemer.

[boppers]

12. ...and yet, kept tons of state rules about marriage anyways.

Laws about ages, consent, competence, relatives, etc. were not relegated to the federal government.

[joshcryer]

13. What an amazing example of one line ownage. Props to you.

[liberalmuse]

4. Well, I guess we have something in common.

I don't believe in marriage - I don't care if you're gay or straight. However, that is MY belief and I'm not going to force anyone to comply with it. All consenting adults should be able to have a marriage ceremony and be considered married if they so choose. I don't like the semantics bullshit. Civil Unions, marriage. Really, they're pretty much the same thing, except some people think one is sacred because you do it mostly in a church, and the other is legal because you do it mostly in a courthouse. I dunno...

It shouldn't matter what any one person thinks about gay marriage. The fact is, it is a gross violation of civil and human rights to deny one group a fundamental right - not a "privilege" or "sacred cow", that another group can use (and heartily abuse) as it pleases. I can't watch this debate anymore without becoming disgusted that it's come down to who is evolved and who is still stuck in the dark ages. My god, it's the 21st century.

[NYC_SKP]

5. Except for the plethora of other rights and priveleges that go with legal marraige...

I agree from a personal point of view; marriage ought to be a private matter and completely uncoupled from all legal matters.
But that's not ever going to happen, so we need to work toward equality (and I think we're making some progress, albeit slow).

Depending upon one's jurisdiction and other particulars, different treatment between married couples and civil unions might include:

Property and estate rights
Inheritance and survivor rights
Hospital visitation rights
Business and tax benefits (or liabilities)
Access to public services
Fair representation in legal matters

The list goes on, and I'm not even particularly active.

The solution is to work toward equality, not separate but equal, state by state of by whatever means necessary.

:patriot:

[laconicsax]

6. Which is why his DOJ is working to keep DOMA around, right?

:grr:

[emulatorloo]

29. "DOJ Stops Defending DOMA Provision"

http://www.metroweekly.com/news/?ak=6022

[MessiahRp]

7. "Obama says gay couples deserve same rights as all...kinda"

That's how it should read.

'It's great that other people are taking the lead and trailblazing this for me because I personally don't believe in it enough nor have the convictions on it to try to do anything nationally at all. But, go you guys.'

[Firebrand Gary]

9. I get so tired of hearing my DU friends complain sometimes.

He has done more in his first term then all the Presidents in American history combined. Lighten up and give the guy some support. Nobody get's everything they want overnight. If that were the case what would be the point of living?

Besides if its EQUALITY that we really want, it would behove us to stop sabotaging our own interest. The 2010 elections were a glaring example of this.

[flvegan]

11. Interesting take on that.

And by "interesting" I don't mean interesting.

[LaurenG]

40. Yep, here we go again

"interesting" is putting it nicely.

[LeftyMom]

56. Scooch over, I brought popcorn.

Did you catch the location? I thought I smelled something.

[ClarkUSA]

14. Thank you and amen to that.

Welcome to DU. Your sensible view is appreciated.

[Dappleganger]

38. Bigotry and tolerance of bigotry is not sensible in a democracy.

[Bluebear]

15. You "lighten up". And it has NOT been "overnight".

[emilyg]

16. LOL Your opening

statement cracked me up.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Firebrand Gary]

20. It should be noted that my partner and I have been engaged for years.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. I get so tired of my DU friends telling me how to think, feel, and react to MY rights.

Your strawman arguments and blase attitude toward GLBT rights will make you quite popular...among a certain subset.

If equality is what WE really WANT, then it would be best for people to stand up and say "WE DEMAND EQUALITY" and not "Hey, Lighten up. Stay the course!"

[Firebrand Gary]

22. How typical.

Bitch, bitch, bitch. You know democracy takes work, you actually have to work for it. Demanding only shuts down the other side and the discussion ends going nowhere.

While you are complaining about "your rights" the rest of us are in the trenches making sure another CONSERVATIVE justice is not appointed to the bench. If we relied on your strategy of demands, we (the LGBT) community would be fucked waiting another 25 years for an opportunity to move our rights forward.

Think bigger.

[Behind the Aegis]

24. How typical.

Wag your finger, and telling us HOW we should act. Us silly queens, we can throw a party, but don't know how to effectively fight for our own equality.

"Demanding only shuts down the other side and the discussion ends going nowhere." :rofl: Yes, we should placate the right. How silly of me. Pander to the bigots. Now why didn't I think of that?!

"While you are complaining about "your rights" the rest of us are in the trenches making sure another CONSERVATIVE justice is not appointed to the bench. If we relied on your strategy of demands, we (the LGBT) community would be fucked waiting another 25 years for an opportunity to move our rights forward."

Tell me, Kreskin, what are the lottery numbers for next week?

"Think bigger."

Take your own advice!

[EFerrari]

27. What was that thing Frederick Douglass said

about power never conceding without a demand?

lol

Before you advise the most successful social justice movement of the last fifty years to shut up, maybe you should put in some time and figure out what the hell you're talking about.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProgressIn2008]

51. Is this satire? I can't believe anything this ugly could be serious. nt

[Dappleganger]

35. +10000

[EFerrari]

26. You must be joking.

[cstanleytech]

30. *shakes head* He is an ok president

and I am proud to have voted for him as he was a better choice imo than the McCain/Palin option *shudder* and he is better than Bush JR by far but he hasnt "done more in his first term then all the Presidents in American history combined" as that title probably belongs to FDR.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fascisthunter]

41. Tell Ya What(Hetero here): Give up your rights

so the gay community can tell you the same crap. NEVER tell others to lighten up when it comes to equal rights as humans. Your audacity is remarkable in a very sad way.

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. "He has done more in his first term then all the Presidents in American history combined."

:silly:

"Nobody get's (?) everything they want overnight. If that were the case what would be the point of living?" :wtf:

[The Nexus]

10. We need to take a closer look at licensing of marrage in general nt

[Occulus]

17. .

.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. How surprising or not.

Same shit, different day.

[Bluesbreaker]

25. Obama is a great president . . .

. . . as long as we are talking about issues with no discernable corporate interest.

[cstanleytech]

31. Oh please!!! I bet if we were able to go back in time we would find that most if not all

presidents have in the end had ties to corporations and have done things for said corporations, to think otherwise is a bit foolish imo.

[Myrina]

28. "civil unions" should be the best the gov't can do ...

"marriage" connotes a religious ceremony (at least in my mind) and I prefer religion as far away from gov't as possible.

[slackmaster]

33. I agree

Here in California we have a messy system in which only same-sex couples and heterosexual couples with at least one member over age 62 can qualify for a civil union.

Other couples have to either get married or live together without the benefits of marriage.

[laconicsax]

42. Marriage is NOT a religious ceremony.

A religious ceremony is OPTIONAL, and has no effect on whether people are married. If a couple has a religious ceremony without first applying for a marriage license, they are NOT legally married.

Marriage IS a civil union regulated by the state. The only place where religion enters into the equation is that religious leaders are GIVEN PERMISSION BY THE STATE to officiate at an OPTIONAL joining ceremony.

[LeftyMom]

57. Marriage does not connote a religious ceremony.

Traditionally marriage was a civil matter regarding transfer of property, religious connotations are a fairly late addition to the process. Christian churches did not regard marriage as a sacrament and there's no account of a marriage as a Christian religious ceremony for nearly half of church history.

[slackmaster]

32. His statement, while well-intentioned, was not accurate

Gay people HAVE the same rights as everyone else.

Their rights have been infringed.

[Dappleganger]

37. +10000

[laconicsax]

43. Not true.

LGBTIQ persons are actively disallowed from having the same rights as straights. Someone who is prevented from expressing those rights does not have that right. It's only infringement if the right can still be partially expressed (i.e. restricted, but not taken away).

[slackmaster]

45. "Acitvely disallowed" from having rights means exactly the same thing has having rights infringed

Infringement of a right can extend to complete denial of that right. Residents of the District of Columbia had their right to keep firearms for self-defense in their own homes completely denied before the US v. Heller decision in the Supreme Court.

The law that was struck down was an infringement on the right to keep and bear arms, which is enumerated in the Second Amendment.

[laconicsax]

46. US v Heller was about a limited ban.

The law that was struck down didn't ban all firearms, just a lot of them, and placed requirements on storage and registration. A DC resident with a bolt-action rifle could legally keep it in their home as long as it was registered and kept unloaded, disassembled, or stored with a trigger lock. The same criteria went for the other types of non-prohibited firearms.

The 2nd amendment rights of DC residents were restricted, but not completely denied (i.e. infringed).

[slackmaster]

47. NO, it was about a complete ban on keeping a loaded, assembled firearm in your own home.

It was a ban on specific behaviors, not objects.

The 2nd amendment rights of DC residents were restricted, but not completely denied (i.e. infringed).

That's exactly the equivalent of saying that the right of gay Californians to marry was restricted, but not completely denied, because a gay man could legally marry a woman.

[laconicsax]

52. No, it was a restriction on ownership.

Saying that it was a complete ban is akin to saying that requiring a driver's license is a ban on driving. If you don't get a license, license your vehicle (a 'legal' vehicle that is), you're not allowed to drive.

DC residents were allowed to keep firearms in their home, provided that certain (overreaching) rules were followed. You've managed to miss the point that this is nothing like how LGBTIQ persons are denied civil rights wholesale. We are fighting to GAIN those basic rights.

[slackmaster]

54. Where do you believe rights come from, laconicsax?

A simple question that probably doesn't have a simple answer.

Are people endowed with rights at birth, or are rights created by government?

My belief is that all rights naturally exist save those that have been curtailed through a system of mutual agreement that we call due process of law. I believe governments can protect and enhance rights by granting special privileges but it cannot create rights; and that much of what government does consists of limiting rights or taking them away completely.

Before government got involved in marriage there was nobody to tell any couple that they couldn't marry because of some personal characteristic.

[InvisibleTouch]

39. While he's making a bolder and more definitive statement...

...than any other president has in the past, it still frustrates me why he can't just come out and say, "Gay couples should be able to get married just like straight couples." I suspect he personally feels that way, so what would be so horrible to come out and say it word for word? What political fallout is he afraid of? The haters will hate him no matter what he says, so why not be completely unambiguous?

[KurtNYC]

44. Statements = fund raising. Fighting for civil rights = "distraction"

I think the WH is perfectly capable of multi-tasking yet they refer to urgent battles in WI, gay marriage and other fronts as "distraction."

[Imagevision]

48. Obama is such an obvious putz - Viva Bilderburger group - Viva Bilderburger group

[prete_nero]

49. rid of it

Abolish marriage as a government institution.

Everything marriage is becomes civil unions. Civil unions are the only legally recognized institution according to our gov't.

If religious people of any faith want to be married in addition to their civil union its their choice but makes no impact regarding legal issues or rights.


Why isn't this a solution?

[Solly Mack]

50. It's actually not a matter of "deserve" - as citizens gay couples are entitled to the same rights

Your rights are your rights regardless of anyone thinking you don't (or do) deserve them...that's why they're called "rights"

[fascisthunter]

53. does he even realize what bad PR is giving himself

by using weasel words to appeal to the GLBT community? Good gawd, he has no fucking clue... he really is sucking up to the right wing.