U.S. Muslims seek Pentagon probe on Iraq photo

[tlcandie]

http://electroniciraq.net/news/1444.shtml


The photo that has been circulating on the Internet.

<snip>
The Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) today called for a Pentagon investigation of a photograph circulating on the Internet that apparently shows an American soldier mocking an Iraqi child.

The photo sent to CAIR seems to be of an American soldier standing next to two Iraqi children who are giving the thumbs-up sign. One child holds a hand-lettered sign in English that reads: "Lcpl Boudreaux killed my Dad, th(en) he knocked up my sister!" ("Knocked up" is American slang for making someone pregnant out of wedlock.)
<snip>

<snip>
Awad said CAIR has also received an anonymous letter from a soldier who recently returned from Iraq that claims a commanding officer engaged in inappropriate conduct with prepubescent Iraqi girls. The letter states that the officer, who was named by the writer, referred to the girls as "pre-rag heads" and coerced local Iraqi leaders to provide them in exchange for protection by American soldiers. (The officer's military unit was also named in the letter.)
<snip>


Mods...this article is dated April 2, 2004; however, it is posted April 8th to this site:
Press Release, The Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), 8 April 2004

[SheepyMcSheepster]

1. who would be that stupid?

photoshoped?

[progressivebydesign]

35. Lcpl Boudreaux would. Doesn't look photoshopped at all. N/T

[newyorican]

59. That photo has not been tampered with.

:-(

[tom_paine]

2. If true, this is horrible

We must remember still, this is NOT yet established as "true". It is only an allegation.

[Just Me]

73. An investigation is absolutely appropriate!!!

This allegation is both abominable and the pic appears sufficiently "genuine" (notwithstanding that it would also have to be substantiated) that an investigation is necessary.

[Just Me]

78. PLEASE HELP ME OVERCOME TROLLS,...

,...please, help me,...I am exhausted,...

http://www.iraqvoice.com/

[Blue_Tires]

3. come the hell on

don't people know a photochop when they see one??? I've seen this photo with a bunch of different messages in that space (some were even funny)

[Media_Lies_Daily]

6. You're going to have to do better than that.

[arcane1]

7. so what was the original message?

odd that this photoshopped pic even covers up the word "then" with the kid's hand..

[daleo]

20. I don't know if it is real or photo-shopped

But that is a very good observation.

[October]

22. Same photo, different sign on Bartcop yesterday

Sorry I don't know how to grab it or paste it.

Check the Tuesday/Wednesday issue of Bartcop.com.

[arcane1]

24. here it is

and this one is blatantly photo-shopped

[Occulus]

26. very, very easy to do

in Photoshop. I don't really buy this photo.

Having used Photoshop to alter images before, I can say this with some assurance. I'm going to assume this is faked until proven otherwise.

[arcane1]

28. unfortuately, even if we see the original online

there is no way to prove it is genuine, either


this is the only version of it I've seen that doesn't have any of the obvious telltale signs of being edited

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

47. Very well then...

See my "photoshop proof" post at the bottom.

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

49. very, very *hard* to do

See my "photoshop proof" post near the bottom. I use photoshop almost everyday.

[ParanoidPat]

46. Post one single link to any of them......

......oh, you can't find them now? :shrug: :eyes:

[JuniorPlankton]

4. Hard to believe n/t

[arcane1]

5. OMG how f-ing twisted is that

if true

is that how you win their hearts and minds???


:puke:

[HFishbine]

8. I'm no expert

on military uniforms, but the lack of any insignia or even a name on the "soldier's" uniform strikes me as odd.

[ZR2]

10. The name badge is covered

by the flak jacket. Notice the two different styles of camoflague.

[Amerpie]

12. Nope

He's wearing a flak jacket over his BDU (battle dress uniform). Flak jackets don't have insignia or patches sewed on, it's hard getting a needle to penetrate the Kevlar.

[Superfly]

15. Actually, needles penetrate kevlar quite easily.

so do knives.

[Supormom]

13. Looks like he's wearing a flack jacket over his uniform.

However, you should be able to see his shoulder patch.

[Superfly]

17. Lcpl = Marine Lance Corporal

Marines don't wear shoulder patches.

[Supormom]

67. Didn't know that.

My husband is in the Army NG, so I was not familiar with that fact. Thanks

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

86. but they are supposed to have pins or patches somewhere

and that is NOT the new USMC cammo, which he should have if there.

Looks pretty fishy to me. I think it is a joke pic for the boys back home.

[Superfly]

92. They have rank isignia on their lapels

which is hidden by the vest. Other patches are "US Marine Corps" over the left breastpocket and the name patch over the right, all hidden by the vest.

The new Marine camo pattern didn't reach tactical marines until just a few months ago. When they deployed last year, they went with the standard 3-color uniform as depicted in the picture.

Also, the vest is in the woodland cammo pattern because the number of vests with a desert pattern were in woefully short supply.

So, the Marine's uniform is OK.

[Dhalgren]

27. Merc?

:shrug:

[DarkPhenyx]

61. It's a marine.

I don't believe they don't wear insignia or nametags on their comabt fatigues.

[Superfly]

93. Yes, they do...check reply #92

[Superfly]

94. Link to USMC uniform regulation para #3038

Para 3038

[KissMyAsscroft]

9. Doesnt surprise me one bit...

Last name Boudreaux....probably from Louisiana...some dumb ass hick sending it back to his redneck buddies in Lafayette or something...

Ugh.

And it doesn't look photoshopped but I have seen other versions that obviously were. And it's what soldiers do...they are ruthless and they hate the enemy...it happens..right or wrong when you are shot at all day.

[Journeyman]

14. I love that. . .

"It doesn't look Photoshopped."

Good Photoshopped work never does. And frankly, even bad work could be hard to distinguish in a low-resolution image.

[VolcanoJen]

11. OMFG.

That is sickening, ill, disturbing, and beyond tasteless. This is the first I'd heard of this photo.

If I were that soldier's CO... I'd probably beat his ass my damned self.

[bobthedrummer]

16. I started a thread about this pic last Saturday asking DU techies

for help determining it's authenticity-the consensus was no obvious signs of photoshopping, if fake it is extremely well done.

I first saw it at CRG/Centre for Research on Globalization, usually a very good resource on the Internet.

My opinion is that it is real, a very sick prank played by a Marine on two non-English speaking Iraqi kids.

[arcane1]

23. I'd expect better legibility from a photoshopped pic

and all the words visible

but of course a good photoshopper would think of that..

seen many versions of this pic with other obviously-faked messages, but there HAS to be an original, too...

[Tinoire]

18. Disgusting but not surprising. I've seen much worse with my own 2 eyes.

Just good old boys having some fun... YeeHAAAW!

Lance Corporal Boudreaux,

Remember that sign if your charred body ever gets strung up on some bridge.

And as far as that officer goes... with any justice, may he lose his * over this- Islamic style.

[Superfly]

19. What in the hell is

"Islamic Style"?

[TahitiNut]

74. Sharia

Sharia law would call for the "offending member" to be cut off, I think.

[arcane1]

21. hey there, stranger

:hi:

[Tinoire]

77. Hey!

:)

Long time no see! What a dreadful thread to meet but happy to see you nonetheless!

:hi:

[ConcernedCanuk]

25. There's a whole wack of versions floating around Indymedia.org

.
.
.

Right clik and check properties, they are all at indymedia.org

some the same pictures with different numbers

Fascinating 05.Apr.2004 10:24 breakthrough

couldn't help myself 06.Apr.2004 22:38 had to do it



mellowinman





Maybe some PhotoShopper genius can find out if ANY of them are real?

. . :shrug: . .

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

31. Those are clearly fakes...

before I even put them through photoshop. I'll do what I did to the other picture though, just for the contrast of the real against the fake.

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

29. It's Not A Fake!

Or, if it is, I have no idea how they did such a good job. I just did some tooling around in Photoshop, and if you blow up the sign, turn it into a greyscale, invert it, and increase the contrast, you can see the ridges of the cardboard all the way through. If there was something else on the sign that had to be covered, who ever did it would have to erase it and replace it. Unless he sat there for hours and hours painstakingly reproducing the original look of the cardboard's ridges, pixel by pixel, we would see the color of the card cardboard, but not the texture.

I don't see an option for posting pictures in the replies. I'd like to show what I found. Any body no how I can post the picture without having to start a new thread?

[progressivebydesign]

38. I agree..

this one had too many original textures, the shadows over the words, etc. A photoshopper would not have had words that could not be read. I've photoshopped (legitamate) things before.. this looks very real. I'm certain that this is the original, and the others floating around were shopped... If this is NOT the original.. then let's have this Lcpl Boudreaux provide the REAL one from his camera..

[ConcernedCanuk]

39. Just type or paste the link into the message window

.
.
.

Here's an upload site

http://207.137.168.225/

It'll give you a http address to post in here

[wuushew]

41. I need a higher resolution picture

the image posted at beginning of this thread is only 525 x 368

[Mike Daniels]

30. I don't buy this as real for this one obvious reason

Two kids, one of whom had a dad killed and a sister knocked up are going to allow a US military person stand anywhere close to them and allow their picture to be taken? Right!!

If anything is suspect it's the writing on the paper especially as everything is perfectly centered on the page including the word "sister" below all of the other lines.

The picture may be real but I seriously doubt the writing was the original message.

However, I'm not sure based on what's listed on the thread if CAIR is are complaining that this was a real picture in it's entirety (which I don't think it is based on my observation) or are they are complaining over a tasteless message that's out of context in relation to a benign picture (which I can understand).

[babzilla]

32. you may not have considered

that the person holding the sign does not speak or read english.

this is something you may want to consider when in doubt/observation mode.

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

36. exactly

how many Iraqi children, after over a decade of U.S. enforced sanctions (which included books) and isolation from the world, can read their own language, let alone English?

[Mike Daniels]

40. Sorry, still not convinced

The centering and margins of the writing is just too damn accurate for it to be physically handwritten. Probably a typed message using that font and justified spacing which forces lines of text to create perfectly straight margins.

I have a feeling that anyone who thinks this picture is real would probably say that a picture that said GO USA or something along those lines was photoshopped so I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

[wuushew]

42. I don't think fonts were used..there are differences in individual letters

compare the a's, d's and m's to the s's which seem similar. If this was done doing standardized fonts we could scale, rotate and overlay the fonts to see if they are identical.

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

52. For the luv' a' god!!!

Why can't you accept that it's REAL? OK, let's look at the font. You don't even need to screw with it. Just look, as one example of many, at the 'a' in 'Dad', and the 'a' above it in, Boudreaux. Can it be any more obvious? What's the next excuse?

[wuushew]

62. I don't disagree with you

I believe it is either an extremely good fake or the real deal. I was just responding to the poster who thought such a image could be created by using standard fonts. This is clearly not the case.

[DarkPhenyx]

63. Why can't you accept it's a fake?

Simple question.

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

45. Sorry, but you don't seem to know what your talking about.

The margin is *too* accurate? For a pre-schooler, maybe. Anyway, as you can see, I've used Photoshop to show that this has about a 1% chance of being faked. Also, remember Occam's razor.

[DarkPhenyx]

64. Yes, Occams razor.

The simpliest solution is the most likely. So what is eaier to believe. A soldier poses with a sign saying he raped a girl or that someone photoshopped it?

[salin]

71. if it was real - I doubt that the motivation

was bragging, nor that he killed the father or had raped the sister.

View it more - if it were real - as an attempt to take an absurd picture to show how "stupid those kids are..." e.g., a mocking and rather nasty prank using the kids as the butt of a joke. I have known lots of folks who would pull stunts for that purpose.

I don't, however, concede that the picture is real or not.

[babzilla]

48. I agree

we disagree

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

33. Nobody is saying he actually *did* what's on the sign...

But, it's disgusting, not to mention counterproductive to what we are trying to do there. Who ever is behind it should be punished.

[salin]

34. If a real picture, I would bet that the kids do not read English

and thus have no idea what the sign says. The 'outrage' expressed is thus that the soldier would have asked the kids to pose with him with a thumbs up, have them hold a sign which they have no idea what it says, with the intent to mock them with a pretty disturbing message.

[progressivebydesign]

37. I don't think the Dad was really killed.. but this is a sick joke N/T

[arcane1]

44. perfectly centered on the page?

are we looking at the same thing?

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

43. OK, here is Photoshop proof,...

or at least, very, very, strong evidence, that it is not a fake. As you can see, the image on top is ridged, while the cardboard on the bottom is flat gray, because it has had the ridge texture removed with the original writing.





thanx for the pic posting info, ConcernedCanuk!! :kick:

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

50. furthermore...

With all the photoshopped images out there, don't you think CAIR might have considered and investigated the photoshop issue before wager their reputation against that of the Pentagon?

[DarkPhenyx]

65. Remember how the US media started jumping on the Kerry pic...

...because it fit their agenda?

[Fovea]

60. Further all the JPG compression artifact is consistent throughout the

cardboard and the rest of the image..
So they would have had to do some very tedious editing, or
shot the message on another peice of cardboard at the very best
to achieve this result.

In addition, you will notice that none of the other 'photoshopped' messages have the hand encroaching on the message, which would have been
a bit of additional difficulty involving layers, etc which would have caused additional hand editing for shadows ect. .

[Elidor]

66. If I wanted to fake it...

I'd scrawl my message on another piece of cardboard and take a photo, using jpg compression, then photoshop the result, removing the original cardboard in its entirety. It wouldn't be hard to fake. It wouldn't even take much time or talent.

I won't take sides either way. Remember the old adage: don't believe everything you hear, and only half of what you see. This could fall either way.

[MadHound]

96. True, you could do that, but then that would also leave traces

Artifacts from the cutting and pasting, inappropriate textures, differentiation in the compression, etc. etc. If this is a Photoshop job, it is a damn good one that took a hell of a long time to complete. The overwhelming number of Photoshop pranksters out there do a quick and dirty cut and run job on their jokes. If this is a shopped job, somebody spent long tedious days and hours on it.

My guess is that this is the real deal, and somebody was doing a sight "gag" to send to the boys back home. I doubt that the Lcpl did what his sign suggests, I think he just has a sick sense of humor.

[Tiberius]

51. Probably a fake

Everything can be faked, every pixel manipulated, textures replaced, writing thrown in. I wouldn't get too worked up about this.

Besides, look how realistic this one looks (warning, picture of Shania "baring" her breasts, NOT SAFE FOR WORK!):

http://www.snopes.com/photos/risque/superbowl.asp

(scroll down)

[babzilla]

53. I agree

we disagree

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

54. ha-ha!

:toast:

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

55. And I'm sure that care never thought of photoshop...

before releasing a press release. Yes, photoshop is way beyond the scope of most people's imaginations. I mean, who would ever think a photo would be faked with photoshop? Probably just geniuses such as yourself.

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

56. I meant CAIR, not care

[Tiberius]

57. Thanks for the comment

Thanks for the snide comment. "Geniuses" such as myself would like to point out the following:

Just look at how many people believe this administration, believe what they see, believe what they read, click on every email attachment sent to them, believe that the former son of a Nigerian dictator will give them $25,000,000.

Yes, folks, in America, seeing is believing. This could easily be faked and no amount of deconstructing the pixel texture of the cardboard will ever convince me it isn't faked.

This is the digital era, folks. Believe at your own risk. Why get all worked up about something floating around on the internet. Aren't people dying last time I checked?

If an AP reporter stood up and said "I took the picture, it's real", then maybe I'd eat my words.

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

58. No problem

"Why get all worked up about something floating around on the internet. Aren't people dying last time I checked?"

Yes, and further humiliating the Iraqi people certainly isn't going to help. You've made your point. There is no way anyone with a PC and photoshop can prove that this is or is not not, fake. We'll just have to see if CAIR can get the Pentagon to investigate, and then if they confront the individual in the photo. Then we'll see whether or not you get to eat your hat.

[polazarus]

68. I am pretty sure

I can find some pictures on the internet that are far worse than this to poff some muslims. Funny the muslim american relations group never says a damn thing when there are pictures showing "death to america" or the burned bodies of AMERICANS. But no, all the ANTI-American crap is ok...

PS
I gave Iraqi a ham and egg MRE in Gulf War I, he liked it too.

[alfredo]

69. Here is some more on the picture

Bottom right and Top right gives me question, and a space right after the word "he".



Look at it and see what you think.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

70. Clone Job..... fake as *'s presidency.

[alfredo]

85. Just those areas look odd, but that could be

artifacts anything. I am no expert.


BTW, USASA Kagnew Station Asmara 66-69. trained under Col Lew Millett
Google him.

[nonbelief]

72. Boudreaux

"Boudreaux" jokes are very popular in Texas and Louisiana...

"Boudreaux" is the name usually given to a cajun redneck who does something incredibly stupid or disgusting.

[Eye and Monkey]

81. Boudreaux and Thibodeaux.

Boudreaux & Thibodeaux
Lt. Col. David Couvillon, the commander of the 3/23rd and the provisional military governor here, isn't averse to pulling a Boudreaux or Thibodeaux joke from his vast reservoir out when talking with other Marines.

Naturally, many of them get a good laugh, but not every Marine in the unit is from Louisiana and that created some problems for LCpl. Joey Boudreaux, 23, of Thibodeaux. Remarkably, he's the only guy in the unit with that familiar moniker. And thus some of the out-of-state Marines thought that the stories were actually about him.

"I couldn't believe it," Boudreaux said. "These guys thought I was doing all these things, and I had to do some serious explaining to them. What's worse is we had a Thibodeaux in the 3/23rd but he got transferred out."

- James Varney, Times-Picayune correspondent in Iraq

http://www.nola.com/weblogs/marines/

[bobbyboucher]

75. Here's the scoop,

This Boudreaux prankster got these two Iraqis to pose with this sign and himself as a frickin' joke. Whether or not the boys knew what it said doesn't really matter. The photo seems like there isn't too much animosity around, so I doubt that Boudreaux really killed those boys dad or had impregnated their sister.

Now I have seen many other versions of this photo, all of which were obviously altered. This one doesn't look altered because of its flaws. Why would someone photoshop a message onto a picture and then have it blocked by the hand of the person holding it? And why have it so dim that you can hardly make out the words?

Realize this, it is obvious that something was written on the sign and a photo taken of it, or else why hold that damn piece of cardboard up in the first place, and pose for a picture? So, by reasonable deduction, I am going with the one in the original post by tlcandie, it looks most like it was written in Iraq by a marine on a crappy piece of cardboard, impromptu.

Boudreaux just made a joke for his buddies or his family or whatever. It is sarcasm I believe.

No big deal.

[Eye and Monkey]

79. No big deal. Do you have kids? Would you like them in such photos?

I agree that Boudreaux was just making a joke. I don't think too many parents - here, there, or elsewhere, would like their children to be used as props in such a joke.

[Domitan]

102. Please!

Even if it's a "joke", it's a PR nightmare for the US military. An utter defeat to the "win the hearts and minds of the Iraqis" mission.

[leesa]

76. Isn't thumbs up basically FU in Iraq?

Who knows if it's real? I know it wouldn't surprise me if it were...awful lot of sick, twisted Americans around.

[Atman]

80. You're looking in the wrong places

First, the b&w negative blow up shows artifacts consistent with retouching.

Second, the kid in the blue shirt...forget the sign, look at his thumb...totally botched re-touching job. A cloned finger used as a thumb. Notice, he only has three other fingers.

Also, the lettering all conveniently starts to the right of the kid's shadows on the cardboard.

Here is another real photo. I promise...

[Snazzy]

82. Good point--thumb is all screwed up

Looks like painting with clone brush from other kid's thumb (the white stuff around it). Not to mention weird angle.

Little bit tricky to add the handwriting--not a font, and I don't see any artifacts. Even looks like there was supposed to be an exclamation point on the end, not finished like a dead pen.

But for sure the thumb is a fake.

Where's the soldier's insignia?

----

Edit: Those realmadrid jerseys appear to have a logo about where that white stuff is, so I'll back off my statement the thumb is a fake. It looks odd, but that happens with all the variables in making a photo and going to a little jpeg.

His other finger is there, there's some likely jpeg artifacts around it too, and in shadow.

I'd say jury is out on this one, unless someone finds where it came from.

[wuushew]

87. The thumb is fine, any normal person can bend it that way

perhaps it doesn't look right because it is partially blocking the logo on the kid's shirt. Perhaps the Real Madrid logo?



Also the kid has four fingers, I don't know what some people are talking about.

[Redleg]

83. Don't we have bigger fish to fry than one Lance Corporal in the USMC?

How about starting with Bush and Rummy?

[Snazzy]

84. Boudreaux jokes -- it's a cajun thing

Screwed up still, of course.

Here's a Boudreaux joke archive:

http://lafourche.k12.la.us/teymard/boudjoke/2.asp?s=2

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

88. I believe it is false, and I am a long-time photoshopper

take a look at what I found....


The rectangle at the bottom shows the very distinctive pattern of the USMC's new cammo utilities. So does the light area around the boy's thumb.

I suspect there was another Marine in this picture who changed his mind, and was photoshopped out, the thumb is from the other Marine.

[Chico Man]

101. I think you are right (nt)

[Aquarian_Conspirator]

89. *sigh*

If this post has shown anything, it's that people will see whatever the hell they want to.

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

90. Why not? You sure are seeing whatever the hell you want to?

Are you somehow endowed with more righteousness than others, thus allowing you to always be correct?
If so, today is Your Day.

[Just Me]

91. Yes,...we all have to reach our own judgments,...

,...and your assertions have been pretty convincing to me,...

This certainly should be investigated.

[Slide]

95. It's probably real

Except for photoshopping out a marine or two. But what the heck. IMO it's marines in a war zone putting together a little black humor for buddies back home. They do that.

Want to investigate, well go ahead. But what are you going to do to the guy? Send him to Iraq?

[Logansquare]

97. Well, its in the Marine Corp Times, now

If they think it's real, then sadly, it probably is. If I were a Marine, I'd be ready to give this guy an ass-kicking for making life much more dangerous for everyone.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2810106.php

[tinanator]

98. whats up with all the doubting?

Is it just a genetic thing? Nothing could be more likely and obvious than this original photo was a straight up tasteless joke, followed by a bunch of photoshopped takes that serve no real purpose. Ya'll got too much pride in our armed forces or something? They are out there killing Iraqi citizens right this second.

[Logansquare]

99. Actually, I believed it was real the minute I saw it

But I understand that someone from a military, especially Marine, background might be in denial about such a photo. And I believe there are soldiers over there who really think/thought they were bringing democracy to the Iraqi people and wanted to help them. U.S. troops are not angels or demons, just soldiers.

[troublemaker]

100. Photoshop Info

I'm a pretty good photo re-toucher in photoshop. I don't have time to breakdown all these pix, but I can offer some observations that may be helpful.

To fake something like this an amateur would fill in the cardboard with a flat color, as is the case in a few of these.

The better approach would be to build the blank cardboard from the parts with no writing on them. There are many ways to do that but it's almost impossible for the lines of corrugation in the cardboard to all line up. Even if you took a cardboard area from a different photo there will be misalignments around the edges where it was integrated.

There are zillions of scrawled handwriting fonts available, but the writing in the original (most controversial) version looks like handwriting to me due to variance in the letter forms--some handwriting fonts might have alternates for a few letters, but not five or six different lower-case E's. That said, all the variations could be done after the fact by a meticulous re-toucher, or the message could be written with a graphics pen or tablet without any need for a font.